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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Gujarat - India
Posts: 37

Compressor Bike Project

01/12/2006 8:39 AM

I am going to discuss with you a likely infeasable project involving a bicycle. I know it will be something very rare to listen to, but at the college level we brainstorm a lot and this is one of my ideas. Actually I am a great lover of cycling and so I like to work on the cycle projects.

In my third year I learned about the basic types of air compressors and one of the ideas which came into my mind was the use of a compressor as an auxiliary device in the cycle to run the bicycle, (for a certain moment to give a push to the cycle to reduce the effort on the pedaling) while driving up slopes.

The principle which came in my mind is like this "While driving the bicycle if someone gives a push from back we get the some relaxation on the pedal, as the torque which we have to give drive it from low speed reduces". The want to use the same principle by making the use of the air compressor. The idea is something like this – I attach a small compressor(rotary or centrifugal), to the shaft from which will run from the belt or chain from the rear wheel. Then the compression can take place and the storage of compressed air will be in a reservoir which will be attached to the cycle as shown in the figure. The end of tube from the reservoir will run the bladed wheel like the (turbine) attached to the rear wheel. The bladed wheel will have the attachment to the rear wheel same as the freewheel which will run only when the jet of air will impinge on the blade and bladed wheel will run the rear wheel, the rest of the time the bladed wheel will be free and will not interfere in the movement of the rear wheel during normal cycling.

Now of course, the problem are as follows:

Is it possible to have a compressor such as the one I suggested above?
Is the movement of the shaft of the air compressor from the rear wheel possible?
Is it possible to have the air pressure value which will run the bladed wheel by this compressor?
Is the reservoir of such kind possible, to what extent the weight of the bicycle will increase?
And overall, is it possible to run such a bicycle?

Even though I know that it is not feasible, I would like to go deep in this project as much as possible - maybe I may discover something new.

I am student of third year mechanical engineering, and in the fourth year I have project work, and would like to work on this concept. thank you for any help or suggestions that you can provide.

Yours student in cycling,
Solaank
(Mechanical)

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Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Okanagan Valley, BC
Posts: 69
#1

Bicycle compressor

01/12/2006 9:41 PM

Why dont you use the frame of the bike as your air res. Most new mountain bikes are T-6 or better.Would you be up over 100psi? Iam an avid mountain biker,love to help.

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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Gujarat - India
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#13
In reply to #1

Re:Bicycle compressor

01/15/2006 10:16 AM

Thank you sir , for your valuable suggestion, Can you explain me something in detail about your idea, sir i will be very thankful to you if you help me out. Sir you can send me the replies on the address : solaank.solaank@rediffmail.com

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Anonymous Poster
#25
In reply to #1

Re: Bicycle compressor

01/20/2009 2:23 AM

nice idea......if i got sponcer i will try this project

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Associate

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Napa, California
Posts: 38
#2

Compressor Bike

01/12/2006 10:07 PM

The compressed air jet will not have enough thrust to drive the whell directly, and you will need to drive a high speed turbine with substantial gear ratio. It is unlikely that you will be able to generate enough compressed air or find a reasonable way to store it, to justify the project. How about a lever with a bungee cord for low tech alternative.

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Anonymous Poster
#16
In reply to #2

Re:Compressor Bike

01/15/2006 11:20 PM

Sir,can you give me some details regarding this.

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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etats Unis
Posts: 1871
Good Answers: 45
#3

air power

01/12/2006 11:54 PM

Generally speaking, air powered devices are far from the most efficient thing going. You would do better with hydraulic devices. Additionally, to store enough power to be useful would likely require an apparatus of significant mass not particularly amenable to a bicycle. Lastly, high pressure compressed gasses are dangerous. Should the storage vessel rupture, you basically have an explosion of considerable proportions.

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re:air power

01/13/2006 2:41 AM

If you do use the frame as a reservoir for the compressed Air then you would need to incorportate a safety valve into it in order to relieve the pressure build up produced by the energy used to create the air supply. This could be done by means of a pump that is activated by the pedaling motion to build up the air pressure. The safety valve would then open when the generated pressure reaches higher then the valve set point ie: 20 bar for example. Theres the power source dealt with good luck with the rest.

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Anonymous Poster
#5
In reply to #3

Re:air power

01/13/2006 2:45 AM

Just a change in the direction of thinking. Why not use the power of arms (or one arm for that matter) to "push" the bike on upslope ? You may think of attaching some kind of mobile lever like the ones on excersize machines, conect them mechanically to the pedals when going upslope with a lever or something and use the arm power to get the push. I think in this way, there will not much addition of mass. Will it work?

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Active Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 24
#6
In reply to #5

Re:air power

01/13/2006 7:15 AM

I Do enough work with air to know it is not efficient at all. There are always leaks, ect.Lets not forget about condensation into the equation. It would have to be filtered or blown off to protect the seals. I do like the idea of utilizing the arms for "Pinch Power." Posibbly another set of inline pedals slightly above and front of the goose neck. If you must incorperate an air project how about installing an oxygen separater so you can huff some high test when you start climbing hills. Good Speed!

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Active Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 19
#7
In reply to #6

Re:air power

01/13/2006 8:15 AM

How about throwing this into the mix. Air powered devices are very inefficient, How about getting rid of the chain drive all together and have the pedals drive an hydraulic pump directly. this pump could build pressure in a reservoir and the wheels or wheels (two wheel drive?) would be driven by a hydraulic motor(s) incorporated into the axle of the wheel(s). Going down hill, the motors could be used to build pressure and act as hydraulic breaking. I once worked up a scheme for the design a hydralic auto using these features. Think of it, no transmission or drive line. Less parts and all wheel drive with dynamic breaking and energy recovery. Good Luck on your project! Gary (ggw@lmcic.com)

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Guru

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Location: Etats Unis
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#11
In reply to #7

Re:air power

01/14/2006 12:10 AM

This concept was actually used once on a hybrid car.

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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Gujarat - India
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#17
In reply to #7

Re:air power

01/15/2006 11:23 PM

Sir can you u explain me something more about this, I will be waiting

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Anonymous Poster
#8

Bike Compressor

01/13/2006 9:06 AM

How about a radial piston air motor? They have much higher starting torque with much lower speeds. As others have stated an air motor is going to require a considerable amount of reserve capacity. Just to give you an example an axial piston air motor 0.9 hp requires 40 cfm at 90 psi. If I remember correctly the average cyclist is equivalent to 0.5 hp an equivalent air motor would require 20-25 cfm, that's about 20 seconds run time on a 30 gallon tank. I would also consider some sort of over running clutch on the drive, that way you can "free wheel" when you coast and not have to turn the drive (just about all bicycles already have one on them). You might be able to use a radial piston air motor as your compressor and your drive to keep the weight down.

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Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 104
#9
In reply to #8

Re:Bike Compressor

01/13/2006 9:48 AM

I am probably bias in my thinking as one acclimated to eletrical power systems, but why not just use electric motors. They have been done before, but man are they fun, not to mention a system efficiency much higher (~70%) than air. Now using the frame as battery holders would work as more potent than compressed air, but it would add more weight.

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Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Quad Cities Illinois
Posts: 56
Good Answers: 1
#10
In reply to #9

Re:Bike Compressor

01/13/2006 12:14 PM

I would abandon the idea of using compressed air devices for your application. Compressing air is an inefficient means of storing energy. For any human powered device I would look at storing the energy in a means that most closely matches the form of input energy. Converting the energy from pedalling into another form (electrical potential, stored fluid energy, etc.) all result in huge entropic losses that would make any such device impractical. For a bicycle you could try flywheel storage combined with a clutch, but that may make it difficult to control due to gyroscopic forces. You could also use a large clockspring and a sprag clutch to store the energy. It would be much more efficient than compressed air. There was a car marketed long ago that used clocksprings to drive it, it was unsuccessful but the principle would probably work on a human powered device of much less weight. A spring/man hybrid, maybe you'll qualify for a tax break.

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Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Quad Cities Illinois
Posts: 56
Good Answers: 1
#19
In reply to #10

Re:Bike Compressor

01/16/2006 2:28 PM

I did a little research over the weekend and found the name of the car that used a wound spring to drive it. The car was a little hoky, more of a failed perpetual motion machine than anything else, but it did work. The car that I'm thinking of was called the "Burdick Spring-Wound Car", built in 1895. The concept does have merit however, if coupled with modern materials, and a lightweight human powered drivetrain, it would likely be much more viable. If setup carefully, the bicycle would avoid the shortcomings of the failed 1895 car. It would need a slipper clutch on the wind mechanism to prevent overwinding the mainspring for starters. The spring steel made today is way better than what was available in 1895. There are a lot of ways to setup the drive mechanism, but I would start by disecting a little spring wound toy car, like a penny racer, and start from there. The best setup would incorporate a device that would vary the amount of torque applied to the winding mechanism to allow the winder to work like a brake when descending a hill, while preventing too much braking in slippery conditions. Just try different things until you get the right combo, you'll get it eventually. Do not be too meek or timid in your actions. All of life is an experiment, the more you make the better.

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Location: Ahmedabad - Gujarat - India
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#18
In reply to #8

Re:Bike Compressor

01/15/2006 11:25 PM

Sir can you explain me something more on this, it may be something like i may arrive at new idea which may help me in my project. Sir can you mail me and explain me with picture, it will be nice of you sir if you help me. e - mail : solaank.solaank@rediffmail.com

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Guru

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Etats Unis
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#12

Already Been Done!

01/15/2006 3:12 AM

Well, this should put this one to rest. Leafing through the January issue of Electronic Products I found an article on a electronic system that is already on the market. It appears they have done an excellent job. Check it out at: http://www.bionx.ca/

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Participant

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
#14

Bike Compressor

01/15/2006 5:38 PM

We have a company here in Australia that is trialling a combination hydraulic pump/motor on semi trailers [ approx. 30 tonne units ], pumps up hydraulic force into accumulators on the down hill runs and uses the stored energy to then drive the hydraulic motor on the flat or uphill runs, trials have been sucessful and major fleet owners throughout the world are looking at it, but on a bicycle ???, PRACTICE A BIT MORE & BUILD UP YOUR LEG MUSCLES THEN YOU WON'T NEED A MOTOR !!!

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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Gujarat - India
Posts: 37
#15
In reply to #14

Re:Bike Compressor

01/15/2006 11:17 PM

Sorry sir, but i am not able to understand what you explained. Sir i am student and working on this project, i know at this level it is not possible for me to do this, even i know the work is not feasible, but my intention is to work on the project and to arrive at some new concept and new ideas. Thank you sir for replying me..

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Participant

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1
#20
In reply to #15

Re:Bike Compressor

03/27/2006 2:51 PM

hey..can ya gimmi more details on this? its kinda imp..

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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ahmedabad - Gujarat - India
Posts: 37
#21
In reply to #20

Re:Bike Compressor

04/01/2006 2:14 PM

Sir , send me your, e-mail id, and then i will send you the detail of that , what ever i have with me

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Anonymous Poster
#22
In reply to #21

Re:Bike Compressor

04/03/2006 4:18 AM

hey there..i'm rajat my id is z.rajat@gmail.com ciao

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Anonymous Poster
#27
In reply to #21

Re:Bike Compressor

01/11/2010 12:23 PM

hi friend . its a good idea. please send me the data that u have got with u. i would try to help u and work it out as my project

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Anonymous Poster
#28
In reply to #21

Re:Bike Compressor

01/11/2010 12:27 PM

plz send me the data that u have got wit u friend. i would try to help u and word it out as my project

my id : nag_i007@yahoo.com

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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mexicali, BC, México
Posts: 131
#23

Re: Compressor Bike Project

12/08/2006 11:46 AM

Solaank:

Just keep going. Trying and fail or success is one way to learn.

I am sure that Electric motor will work better and mor eefficient than compress air motor. You can try Hidraulic too. Still lower efficiency than electric motor. Who knows, maybe in the future we will know about you in the news papers :).

Another Idea for you project will be a Electric motorcycle with regenerative brakes and alternator with a 5hp gasmotor to get more anergy in case you are in the meadle of the desert :)

Saludos!

Delmar

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Participant

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1
#24

Re: Compressor Bike Project

09/22/2008 8:35 AM

hey i read about ur project.but can i get the figure or desidgn of the project

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Anonymous Poster
#26
In reply to #24

Re: Compressor Bike Project

01/11/2010 12:19 PM

hi friend. its a good idea.can u send me the detail that u have got with u

i will try to help u and work it as my project even

my id:nag_i007@yahoo.com

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Users who posted comments:

Alhuey23 (1); Anonymous Poster (8); Brunka (1); Gary (1); Grant (1); halcyon_m (1); madscientist (2); Paul Wyatt (1); rcapper (3); solaank (5); strawberrymccoy (1); vasim (1); zombie (1)

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