Previous in Forum: Paint strength and other characteristics   Next in Forum: Nature's Temperature Limit?
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 29

Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/13/2008 10:44 PM

Dear All,

I have some difficulties in understanding the relation between rated current and duty cycle of a welding machine.....

For eg,

rated duty cycle of a machine = 60%

rated current of a machine=250A @ 60% duty cycle

the required current of a machine at 35% duty cycle =?

in my technical knowledge,

the required current at mentioned duty cycle = I(rated current) x sq-rt of (rated duty

cycle/required duty cycle)

so, I(rated current) = 250 Amp

rated duty cycle= 60%

required duty cycle=35%

I ( at 35% duty cycle)=?

= 250 x sq-rt of (60/35)

= 250 x 1.3093

= 327.326 Amp( this current is higher than the rated current output of the machine)

In this answer, I cannot understand how the machine can give out a higher current than the machine rated current.

Pls help me to understand thoroughly for these relations.

Thanks and Regards,

Kotuu2.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wrong end of the yellow brick road in Oz
Posts: 930
Good Answers: 15
#1

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 12:08 AM

during welding process, the machine will be running with a ON-OFF-ON-OFF duty cycle

at 50% duty, you will have 50% ON time, 50% OFF time,

at 60%, you have 60% ON and 40% OFF

The end result could be closer to (250/60)x35 = 145.8A

__________________
Qn, Whats the differance between a Snake and a Onion? Ans, No one cries when you chop up a Snake
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bronkhorstspruit, Gauteng, South Africa
Posts: 128
Good Answers: 9
#2

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 12:22 AM

You are correct in that the rated current is inverse to the duty cycle.

Practical the machine is designed with a capacity of cooling which is deciding on the duty cycle.

During operation the machine develops heat due to the I^2 R of the machine.

If the rate at which the heat is removed is smaller than this the machine will heat up till it eventually fails.

The idling time between welds is when the cooling takes place.

It is common sense that the higher the welding current the more heat develops and the longer it takes for cooling in between welds therefor reducing the duty cycle.

I hope this answers your question.

__________________
Johan van Niekerk
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 1:39 AM

Thanks Johan. I agree with your suggestion. The higher the current, the higher the I^2 R loss. So, it is a must to cool down the machine for longer time.

but during on time at 35% duty cycle, how many current we can get from this type of machine.

this current may be higher than the rated current of the machine. Is it possible? i could not believe and understand it. Pls help me to solve this problem.

Thanks and regards,

Kotuu2.

Register to Reply
Guru
Spain - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 716
Good Answers: 25
#4

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 2:18 AM

Hi all,

I absolutely agree with the meaning of duty cicle: It's the maximum continuous time percentage the machine can be "ON" without damage.

Another question is rated current. As in any other electrical machine my opinion is that rated current is the maximum current selectable. Of course it has some relatonship with the duty cycle, but: Does anybody think that in the example machine if you reduce the "on" time to 6% you can rise the current to 2500A?

__________________
It's stupid to discuss about AI: We´ve reached by the "B" way. We' ve producing men as clever as machines.
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - CNC - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bronkhorstspruit, Gauteng, South Africa
Posts: 128
Good Answers: 9
#5

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 6:25 AM

The maximum current that can be drawn from a welding transformer depends on the amount of iron in the core.

As the current increases so does the flux density and as the flux density increases more energy per unit is required untill the core is saturated.

If the transformer is a 5 kilowatt transformer and the secondary voltage is 50 Volts then the maximum current that can be drawn will be 100 ampere.

Normally the transformer has either tappings or a shunt to control the energy (amperage) of the welder.

It still rings true that the more current you draw the shorter the usable period (duty cycle) but it does not hold true that the current is inversely proportional to the duty cycle ad infinitem.

__________________
Johan van Niekerk
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 867
Good Answers: 11
#6

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 7:41 AM

Here's what I've found:

"The rated duty cycle of an arc welding machine (at rated current) is the percentage of actual arc time allowed based on a 10-minute period. The 10-minute time frame is standard for most welding machines. If a machine is rated at 300 A at 40% duty cycle, the load of 300 A should not be applied for more than 4 minutes out of every 10-minute period. The machine should be allowed to idle for the remaining 6 minutes (cool down period). If an arc welding machine is to be operated at a current greater than its rating, the allowable duty cycle should be reduced accordingly. Conversely, if the rated duty cycle is to be exceeded, the allowable current output is to be reduced."

http://www2.worksafebc.com/Publications/OHSRegulation/GuidelinePart12.asp?ReportID=31154

So the machine could produce a current greater than it's rated current but for a lower duty cycle than the rated duty cycle.

__________________
Eric
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 8:09 AM

Excellent! You nailed it precisely as the NEC and the manufacurers define it.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chennai - India.
Posts: 273
Good Answers: 18
#8

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 9:22 AM

Dear Kottu2,

Your calculations are OK. As you have rightly pointed out:

desired duty cycle in % * desired current 2 = rated duty cycle in % * rated current 2

In your calculations, you have correctly shown that at 35% duty cycle, the current could be 327 amps which you feel is not practical for a 250 amps welding machine.

Everything is fine except for the interpretation of the results.

It should be concluded that, a 250 amps, 60 % duty cycle machine could be used at maximum current possible for the machine ( with 3½ minutes 'on' cycle) without the danger of damaging the insulation if the duty cycle is reduced to 35 % i.e. the insulation will never get damaged as heat generated is low at that cycle.

Similarly, for same machine the desired current should be 193 amps at 100 % duty cycle. The interpretation again is, a max current of 193 amps should be used for continuous welding (say GMAW process) without the danger of damaging the insulation.

Trust the details are clear to you.

__________________
What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us: while what we have done for other and the society remains and is immortal.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles area, California, USA
Posts: 202
Good Answers: 9
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/15/2008 12:37 PM

One way to reduce heat gain is to add fan capacity for more efficiant cooling.........even chilled air.

Reality is the machine is too small for his indicated HIGH AMP/TIME use.

MR. GUY

__________________
If you are looking for a positive answer..it's YUP......
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
#10

Re: Duty Cycle and Rated Current for Welding Equipment

01/16/2008 3:35 AM

I would like to express my thanks to all in CR4 forum for giving advice me, spending your precious time on this topic and teaching me.

I could see the light because of you all!!!

Thks and Rgds,

Kotuu2.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); ca1ic0cat (1); Johan van Niekerk (2); KOTUU2 (2); Kwetz (1); Mr. Guy (1); Snaketails (1); SRIDHAR (1)

Previous in Forum: Paint strength and other characteristics   Next in Forum: Nature's Temperature Limit?

Advertisement