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Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/03/2008 8:26 PM

Some water storage dams are concave elliposoid of revolution in external shape, thereby giving rise to a whispering wall, where one person standing at one focus can easily hear a person speaking from the other focus.

I have asked several civil engineering friends what special properties does an ellipsoid of revolution have for dam wall over a spherical surface which would seem to spread the pressure load evenly over its width, but none seem to have been able to answer this.

Does anyone know?

Lleros Marharg

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#1

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/03/2008 10:21 PM

Concrete has a much higher compressive strength than tensile strength. By curving the dam wall on the water side, the water will exert a compressive force on the dam wall that the concrete can withstand. A flat wall, or one that curves away from the water, will weaken the dam as a tensile force is exerted on the concrete instead.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/03/2008 11:31 PM

Dear DVader,

Thankyou for your trouble in answering the question, but I actually wanted to know why one would use an concave ellipsoid of revolution rather than a concave spherical shape.

The way I see it, the spherical wall would have equal compressive forces around it from the water behind the dam. What is it about an ellipsoid that they sometimes use this shape rather than spherical?

Lleros

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#3

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/04/2008 12:03 AM

The Shape of the Dam wall is based on the environment in which is built.

Dam walls are built on an arch in such a way as to direct the load outward and forward of the dam wall.

The arc will aim to direct the forces at 45degrees to the line of the wall and the direction of force using the valley walls as a break to prevent the wall from collapsing similar to a arch bridge only in two (2) dimensions.

Sapper

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#4

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/04/2008 12:52 AM

It would firstly be a matter of cost. A spherical shape would require more material to achieve the same result. however multi arch dams are More spherical in shape.

A second will be the forces on the flanks will be closer to perpendicular on a ellipsoid than for a spherical design.

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#5

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/04/2008 2:21 PM

I remember seeing a documentary on the Hoover Dam construction which was edifying and astounding. To see the finished product is to wonder at the calm water and the equally calm structure. To see its construction is to see the bottom of the iceberg.

Wikipedia offers a short explanation of a couple of the basic types of dam: cantilever, gravity, thin shell, arch and combinations of all of these.

wikipedia Types of dams

The final chosen shape may have been approximated to an ellipse at the time of construction as this allows for setting out. However, the rear of the dam may have been another ellipse depending if it were a pure shell construction or hybrid.

One other thing that was wonderful was that they had to pass cold water pipes through the concrete as it was setting to reduce the amount of heat that would otherwise have built up due to the heat of hydration. The pipes are still there of course within this massive structure.

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#6

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/05/2008 5:13 AM

As you take the central segment of the dam, the water pushes it back. But, due its curvature, it translates into a push almost outward. Next segment carries it, and adds its own. When you finish this train of thinking, every segment have to carry the compression load from the previous one, and add its own to it. So you are ending up with one gradually thickening toward the side walls and gradually and cumulatively curving away from the water to transmit the backward push to the valley walls. That is an ellipsoid.

The beauty of it is, that it is all compression in the dam. After all, you might not be happy with a dam with tension in it, would you!?!

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#7

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/05/2008 8:52 AM

I may be off the mark, but search "The Long Life of the Catenary: From Brunelleschi to LaRouche". This may shed some insight to the design concept.

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#8

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/05/2008 10:04 AM

Hendrik pretty much nailed it in very few words. Not much explanation WHY there is less material in an ellipsoidal dam rather than a spherical dam, so, in case anyone is wondering about that, it is really basic geometry.

One could compare the formulae for the circumference of an ellipse to that of a circle, but the formula for the ellipse is quite complex:

where is the eccentricity of the ellipse (=0 for a circle) and a is its semi-major axis. So perhaps it would be better to compare the two graphically.

First of all, just as a circle is a special case of an ellipse (where the two foci are co-incident), so is a sphere a special case of the ellipsoid. If you can, imagine an ellipse within a circle such that the major axis of the ellipse falls exactly on the diameter of the circle, they have the same length, and the two figures intersect at the two points which are at the ends of the major axis and diameter.

Since the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line, any curve which deviates from the line will be longer. The more it deviates the longer is the line. A very shallow ellipse will deviate only slightly from the line. Its two foci are very near the end points of its axis. These end points would be the anchor points for the dam. As you "stretch" the ellipse so that the foci get closer and closer the perimeter of the ellipse deviates more and more from the straight line, getting longer and longer, until the shape becomes a circle when the foci meet at the center. Thus the semi-circular arc is longer than the semi-elliptical arc. Extending this to three dimensions the spherical section has more area than an ellipsoidal section having the same anchor points. It is a little like comparing a basketball (about 10 inches in diameter) to a slightly smaller than normal American football (actually a prolate spheroid, about 11 inches long) so that the basketball diameter was the same as the football length. The surface area of the football would be significantly smaller.

Since many dams have a minimum wall thickness, primarily due to construction techniques employed, a shorter, albeit weaker, ellipsoidal dam may have more than enough strength to retain the water pressure as compared to the alternate spherical dam. Therefore the choice would be made to use the smaller shape that conserves materials (and building time).

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#9

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/05/2008 4:31 PM

Thankyou all for your contributions to my new understanding of dam wall design. I've put in a couple of good answer votes.

I must try and find time to visit the whispering wall North of Adelaide South Australia, and have another look (and listen to) its spectacular presence.

Lleros

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#10

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/06/2008 1:11 AM

The vectors from each point of a circle are tangent to the circle, thus the concrete goes into tension. Concretes strength is manifested in compression. Vectors from an elliposid are tangent to it at that point, but intersect the adjacent vector, causing a compression reaction.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/06/2008 5:35 AM

I sort of understand your logic, but surely if a sperical dam is taking a load by water pressure from behind, any slight deflection turns the tangential tension into compression in a way that is stronger compression than the flatter parts of an ellipsoid.

Is there anyone who would verify this guest's kind answer, and explain how the tangential components of a spherical dam cause tension.

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#12
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Re: Why are some water storage dams ellipsoidal in shape

02/26/2008 10:11 AM

Also consider that the water pressure increases with depth

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