Can a person sleeping radiate heat enough to cause ...

Dear sskalkunte,

Why not datalog the temperatures of the water in the two bottles through the night. Might provide some revealing data. Do this on several nights with the bottle-in-question at different distances from where you are sleeping on each night.

Best Regards,

Mike

Dear Mikerho:

Good idea. I was inclined to rely on a experts in the thermal sensor area to shed light on how much heat gets radiated from a human body bundled within a comforter before I go on the trail of finding sensors to do what you suggest.

<...how much heat gets radiated from a human body bundled within a comforter...>

Assume 60-100W.

Thanks to all who have given me an input on the amount of heat generated by the body, alternate test strategies.

I value your input and plan to use all suggestions that point to gaps in the test I have conducted so far.

Regards,
Suresh

your 'sensors' may be found at any pet store, in the form of stick-on thermometers, at least for a low cost initial investigation.

Hi crippleclimber,

Welcome to CR4! That's a good tip.

Your username is intriguing. Would you care to elaborate or reveal?

Mike

email me @ crippleclimber@gmail.com and i'll be glad to tell you all about it.

Cool. Are they ones that remain at peak what they measure ? If it measures in real-time (changing based on ambient), I have no intention to stay awake all night staring at the thermometer

Oh! If you want to discover something, you have to.

But I hope same phenomenon will take place even in day time. You need not be awake whole night observing. (But obviously you have to be awake whole day, but you need to be at one place only in the room, as if you are sleeping).

Of course if you spend more, every thing can be data logged in logger.

The room temperature when this phenomenon observed was between 65-70. The contents in comparison are either,

a) Two bottles containing tap water, or,

b) Two bottles containing some soda (in my case Coke).

The intriguing part is that the amount of fogging is significantly different when comparing the two bottles where the one closer was far more than the one say 5-10 feet away.

GA, you got my vote.

If I recall correctly (and I seldom do anymore) a sleeping human should put out maybe 100W. That doesn't seem like enough to fog a bottle 2 feet away. Can you take some quantitative data and see what you get?

From what I have heard so far, 100w is not meant to cause condensation. I will plan on finding sensors that stay at peak temperature measured. Any suggestions will be most welcome.

There are simple and not so costly Weather Stations, which record current temperature, maximum temperature and minimum temperature over the period from time of resetting.

They even show current relative humidity.

Just reset the station before sleeping and see the record in the morning.

If by fogged up you mean condensation on the outside of the bottle. Then that has to do with the amount of moisture expelled by the body not heat. If both bottles contain water of equal temperature then the one closer to you would fog up more. Its closer to the source. As you move away from the body the moisture disperses.

Would work at my house sleep year round with a fan.

You are right. Besides, before data logging as suggested by Mikerho (Post 2), the temperatures at two locations of two bottles should be logged with no human in the room during period of observation (night). The may be non uniformity of temperature in the room itself which is causing the differential phenomenon (more fogging at nearer place and less at other place)

the temperatures at two locations of two bottles should be logged with no human in the room during period of observation (night).

Ah - a CONTROL! Definitely!

You get one for "good answer"!

Mike

I have not yet done that, I will look forward to trying what you suggest and report back when I have an answer

My mistake, I should have noted that the condensation observed was inside the bottle. Thanks for prompting the clarification.

The human body also emanates water vapor. When I used to backpack I would wake in the morning in my down sleeping bag and find a layer of ice formed on the outer surface of the sleeping bag. The vapor from the body passes through the permeable bag and then condenses on the cold outer surface of the bag and then freezes. OK, not the same thing, but related. So I think the condensation you are seeing on the bottles are vapor from the bod.

In my share of trekking experiences, I agree the condensation caused is expected to be seen on the external surface. What I have observed in my bedroom it is condensation inside the bottle that intrigues.

No. This is definitely not true. The bottle closest to you has captured part of your soul. I would suggest letting it out before next Sunday!

Vermin,

Are you EVER serious??? And who the hell is Lucious Prn anyway???

Mike

I am glad you said a part, I hope it is the part that I need less help

Hey sskalkunte,

Are you there??? Do you care that many of us have responded to your post? Has it helped you?

In order to avoid being considered rude, please reply!

The friendly CR4 team!

Hi Mikerho,

I am grateful for the curiosity. I am looking forward to quantify. I was not able to get online yesterday and hence the delay in my responses.

Cool! It's always nice to know that you're doing some good... er well depending on the answer!

Mike

As always, on the forum, the one who asks a question gets his answers. This time, it was suggested an experiment starting with an empty room, several temperature monitors and controllers etc. We, gentlemen, forget the source of our experiment. In part is, as Vermin well (and GA-ed) pointed out, is the soul. But let's not forget the body. Yes, but is this body isolated? Necked? Half necked? Covered with a bed sheet or with a comforter (plus a wool blanket - in my case)? Now we come at an yield between 0W for an isolated body to 100W for a necked body with some activities (exercising push-ups, for example). Also, Kris could bring, from the Middle Age history (see the goose bumps story), observations about some liquid recipients (not necessary bottles) kept overnight in the bedrooms.

I hope initiator of the question doesn't sleep anked, neither he excersises while sleeping... as you may be doing.

Other points are valid.

indel,

Let's evaluate the situation and see if we can obtain a mathematical model:

1. A body generating heat @ (assume) 100W
2. Insulation around the body with R value TBD
3. Air currents in the room according to the operation of HVAC
4. Distance of water bottles from sleeping person
5. If no forced-air heating/cooling or fan, average temp in room is x
6. Need to take into account two different types of heat transfer:
7. Radiant heat transfer
8. Convective heat transfer
9. Conductive heat transfer (probably negligible)
10. And many other factors

I give up on the mathematical model... I am just not up to it!

OK, there are many more things to be taken into account (see #10 above). My point is that the R-value of the heat-source covering is a relatively small part of modeling this scenario.

I know I'm going on and on, but what the heck, I'm having fun.

Mike

9. Conductive heat transfer (probably negligible)

I completely disagree with this assumption. Please refer to all experiments of conductive heat transfer between two bodies!

Okaaaay Indel (rolls eyes),

Then riddle me this, Batman:

Through what medium is heat conducted from the sleeping body to the water bottle?

Take as much time as you need.

Warmest Regards,

Mike

Through what medium is heat conducted from the sleeping body to the water bottle?

Some many years ago, the answer would be: through flogistic.

I have to explain. The French word "phlogistique" was, in alchemists knowledge, the fluid that exists in some substances, including air. A more... English word would be "flogistic"

... even more English is "phlogistic" - of or relating to "phlogiston".

There are a lot of undefined variables in your question:

1 - how big of an enclosure? tent / room / house / none

2 - sleep - that hints at nighttime - temperatures fall overnight, often to below the dewpoint of the air

3 - starting humidity

1 - how big of an enclosure?
> room dimension 10 X 12

3 - starting humidity

> None/negligible (not quantified, rather what I perceive)

I would suggest that two bodies in the same bed might have an even more pronounced affect...

Yes it can generate sufficent heat to boil your morning coffee. Haaaaaaaaaaa.

Do you suppose two people [you know] could melt an igloo?

Not that fortunate in recent times

Pretty basic! We release most of the water we drink and eat in foods thourough our lungs...not our urine. This creates high humidity...enough so to lower the dew point to less than room temperature. Bingo fog on your water bottle.

I gave you a GA point for a Good Answer.

This may be useful. When breathing normally, your (warm, moist) breath should easily reach the cooler bottle at 2' and condense. Electronic weather stations are relatively cheap, and could measure the bedroom humidity for you. Most of the heat from your body will rise upwards and raise the ambient temperature of the room slightly, but it's the direct action of your breath that causes the fogging.

Please will everyone stop going on about moisture in the breath? sskalkunte said in #24 that the condensation was on the inside of the bottle.

[Edit - sorry, had a bad week ]

LOL. Since when does an answer have to relate to the question ? Now I have to think about condensate outside the bottle precluding condensate inside. This is getting confusing, it could be a still for all I know.

The circulation of paranormal un-rooted souls (popular known as ghosts) is accompanied by a lowering of the temperature, according to the eye witnesses on both sides of the pond.

I suggest you open a new thread of discussion,please, instead of continuously diverting away from original subject.

Are you talking to me?

Good God!!! Don't listen to these Philistines!!! Think of your poor soul, man!!!