Glycol loop leak

If its a straightish pipe run maybe you could feed a smaller pipe down through it.
Probably unlikely to work .. but I can't think of anything else...

Not sure if this might help, Google Pipe liner repair. Don't know the dia of your pipe, but some times a liner can be placed inside a leaking pipe?

Regards JD.

Hooolyy;

In my small opinion I will recover what ever still in lines and flush it out real good with some warm water and a gallon of white vinegar as an smooth cleaning solution and flush it out again to finished clean out. Then from there I will try a good sealing additive ( Prestone ) or some nice brand from your parts supplier mixed with water to allow for the sealer to flow for couples days before draining once more time and after review sealing mixture works then refill with the normal 50/50 glycol back in system. Hopefuly this gave you some assistance in the project.

Work safe ...!

MC

Call a professional outfit to give you a quote.

In Florida one company that is very good is called American Leak Detectors. They have technology that can pin point the exact place where the leak(s) is/are and recommend the best course of action.

Given that it is a toxic/hazardous substance you may have other problems. Get professional help.

Take the excellent advise from Anonymous Hero.

"Call a professional outfit to give you a quote"

"Get professional help"

Do yourself a favor now that "Do it right the first time" has been ignored.

Down time, environmental liability and long term cost are waiting for your response so they can punish you if you disobey a second time.

Hi guest,

Here's what I was thinking:

Depending on the pipe diameter (cost of the epoxy), you could pump a slug of epoxy through the pipe. As soon as the pipe was entirely full, drain the epoxy before it sets up. Allow the epoxy now coating the inside of the pipe to set up, test and (hopefully) use!

The chances of this working would be inversely proportional to the size of the leak; the smaller the leak, the better the chance of this working.

Maybe we could be of more help if given a few more details.

• Diameter of the pipe
• What kind of glycol (propylene, ethylene, etc. - I'm assuming propylene)
• How fast is the leak (how much glycol are you losing per [time unit]

Best Regards,

Mike

I hadn't fully read magwer's answer - mine is similar, but I wasn't the first with the idea.

Mike

How are ya' ?

It's all good that you did put a great input on it, thanks, hopefully we can be of good help for the buddy in such project. I'd also agree that there are some others great ways to detect the leaks in the loops by using some electronic snoof instruments to pint-point more accurattly, that's cool too. All good all good Alrigth we can try that one better to get that unit back on service. I also was thinking, what about if we can pressurized with couples pounds # of air and together with the detection instrument finally target the spot (s) as well. That can probably would do it. Allset....! ' Deal or Not Deal ?'

Nice Deal;

MC

Hi magwer,

Thanks - your input was great too. It's pretty amazing that, seeing some of the other answers can cause us to see something that we wouldn't have on our own. I learn much more from this site than I contribute. Thanks for your kind words.

Hey - wouldn't it be great to send a microbot down the pipe, find the leak and repair it? I think we have the technology to do this NOW.

Kind Regards,

Mike

PSS... Buddys Buddys

I was just reading something more about these leak detections and course I did got noticed that I did forgot to mentioned also that out there they do have not only like a ''Leakeage Noise Detector" but " Vision Leak Detectors" as well, fantastic. Now we are in business for real definetly. Good Day All Now..!

Crank That Puppy Up Now...

MC

Hi aurizon,

Here we (I think) all were assuming a single leak. What you have suggested is that, if shoddy workmanship was involved, there may be multiple leaks - if not now, they may materialize in the future. If this is true, then the solution is to completely redo the plumbing. Maybe cheaper is what Georgia Adobe proposed in post #10.

Good call.

Mike

I suspect it may be cheaper to run a new line and then add the reqired cement to make the new floor. It all depends on the warehouse. If it is filled with inductrial warehouse shelves that easily come apart they can rent a few refrigerated vans, place the food inside, remove the racks, do the floor, pour the new one and level it and then re-erect the racks.

It would take more time to break up and remove the old floor and then install a new one that laying it on top of the old. This would recuce head space by 4-6".

No matter how you look at it = big aggravation.

If it is a single point leak in a hitherto well built sub-floor glycol system find and dig might be the cheapest way.

How to find precise leak spot.= problem

I agree with Del on this one, if you are sure you have only a reasonably sized leak (and not a badly damaged pipe) you can feed a liner through the pipe, that has to be the most cost effective solution. Of course, finding the proper liner would be the trick.

Hi Joe,

I had that thought too. Don't know why I didn't post it - damned ADD again! Anyway, good answer! I've not seen you here before, but welcome to CR4.

Kindest Regards,

Mike

Why, Thank You Mike. I'm new sort of, been told off - a few times for stupid questions ; so I guess I 'm just old fellow with a candle , trying in the dark, to feel around for some answers too. Nothing new here.

Best Regards,

Joe

Joe,

Don't sell yourself short, man! We all think in different ways. The mark of someone who is truly trying to help is their attitude. Yours is good.

I haven't looked at your previous posts, so I don't know what the "told off" is about. I recently responded to a poster that seemingly should have easily found the info for himself (Google). I was adamant about not giving him the info (and was less than kind - guess I have a thing for people who want everything laid out for them just by asking!), only to find out that the info was NOT easily Googleable (new word!). I did apologize, but was still harrassed for making my own "internet rules" (from some other "guest").

I guess I'm just saying that there are some people that have a problem with what you say, regardless of the content! Keep reading and learning and post as you feel you can help. I learn much more here than I help!

Mike

<Just sounds like a cheaper fix and then you can watch the new pipe for any future leaks without such worries.

Joe>

And gives you 100% redundancy too, for "Keeping Freezing -no spoiling"

I agree, and I also believe it will not warm the floor as it should since the heat will rise directly into the freezer, defeating the purpose of trying to keep the floor warm. Not to mention the trouble to keep forklifts (or other equipment) from damaging it.

We use a glycol loop system where I work. Each one of 7 we have is independent from the other. Your best bet will be to isolate the broken pipe and cap off both ends. Depending on how much moisture enters the freezer, and where this pipe is routed under the floor, you would more than likely not notice much difference.

As has been suggested by others, you may be able to accurately locate the leak by measuring the air pressure drop across a bladder or an O-Ring seal that is moved down the pipe. The reason for using air is that for a given leak rate, you will get a larger pressure drop. After the leak is located you will do what my surgeon does. You will push a stint down the pipe and seal it to the pipe. The stint could be something as simple as a piece of tubing with an O-Ring at each end that would isolate the leaking section to by-pass the leak. Compression of the O-Rings would be designed to create enough friction to keep the stint in place.

If you knew the length(s) of PVC pipe originally used, I bet you only have to dig where they were joined together to find the leak(s).....not a very exact method I have to admit unless you know which end they started at!!

Assuming the above floor answer already given by another poster, is not acceptable. There are power tools that will cut two slots simultaneously through concrete/brickwork etc.. for laying cables etc...

Cut such a double slot (hammer and chisel the middle bit out) put something like sand in there or something soft to protect a new pipe and concrete over (with pressure in the pipe to stop it going flat if needed....)

Test for leaks before concreting!!

Why did someone recommend PVC pipe for a glycol? Glycols are plasticizers for things like PVC, and will weaken the pipe in time. You can try some automotive radiator stop leak. Otherwize, suggest you buy or borrow a stethoscope and crawl along the pipe run until you discover the area of the leak.

I have a few questions-

Do you have any evidence that would give you the general area of the leak?

Can you run a plumbers camera through the line to locate the leak?

You can purchase material that will slide inside the old line that will act as a pipe in pipe application.This will stop the leak with no need for excavation.

You have a very similar problem as BP has in Canada.

There are "pipe lining" companies, which can use a 3 part system, which can be designed to adhere to the walls of the PVC, so it doesn't happen again.

Your pipe diameter will have to be calculated and the head pressure will change, but you might be able to salvage the system, with the technology these guys employ:

It's NOVA Chemical in Louisiana, who can help you.

They have a co-operative with Dupont Canada and Dupont USA, (DDN), which is designed to remediate any plumbing system, you can think of. The European Regulatory Council for Oil Pipelines has recently approved the system for global deployment.

Whether they will tackle a small project, as yours, is up to you to convince them to do so, I would guess.

I'll wager, it's not as expensive as removal of the entire system or fines and allows you to return to safe operations, ASAP.

As suggested above, they run a pig through the pipe; applying three separate layers, to the inside of the casing.

If they can tailor their program to plumbing intensive businesses like you run, there is one huge market to tackle, out there.

You had better act before they find out the water supply is impacted, or you're in really hot water.

Good luck with your problem.

he can switch to propylene glycol and remove all the ethylene glycol. PG is not toxic.

This will not solve he historic spill, but EG is miscible with water in all propertiones and any past EG spilled into the ground would be ddiluted by rain and ground water to harmlessness by now. Small amounts of EG in ground water are not as bad as loose surface deposits which kill animals since it has a sweet taste.

Regulators often take a brainless approach to this. If you doubt me, buy some calcium carbonate at the chemists...the dated label says it expires in a year...here since the ordovician....gone next year

Abandon the pipe burried in the concrete and run a new one in an overhead rack or along a perimeter wall.

If the existng pipe is large enough, run a new(properly prepared) smaller diameter pipe inside, assuming that a smaller diameter pipe has the capacity. You will then have protection, an easier way to replace the pipe if it leaks, an easy way to determine leaks (you will see them flow out of one end or the other) and intact concrete.

Next time install the pipe inside a larger pipe and you will save in the long run.