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Anonymous Poster

Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/10/2008 5:15 PM

This is probably too much to ask for, but I'm seeking the following:

A self-expanding, non-toxic insulative foam that sets up as a rigid closed-cell structure, ideally something that is derived from organic vegetable matter, such as Ironweed oils and/or Castorbean oils, or whatever, and does not require expensive/complicated equipment to apply.

My application is to develop (hopefully) low-cost shelters, that may be made in a fashion similar to a boat hull, where a form [panels that set a large room shape, say twenty by forty feet by eight feet high] is set, ribs or spars [four inches deep by 3/4 inch wide] are erected over the form three to four feet apart, and this spray-foam material is applied, completely covering the structure to a depth of about four inches or so an surrounding the spars, making a complete air/moisture barrier--apertures for door(s) and window(s) will be set in the form. When foam has cured, the form is removed and set up for the next structure.

One thought had been to use compressed air to foam up a pour-in-place material of Ironweed/Castorbean material, and form panels in the manner of "tilt-up" concrete structures, but we would like to have as seamless a structure as possible.

Any suggestions on materials and/or techniques would be greatly appreciated

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#1

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/11/2008 11:01 PM
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#2

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/11/2008 11:54 PM

While you're at it:

M A K E I T F I R E P R O O F !!!

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#3

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/12/2008 12:57 AM

There is a soy based urethane replacement:http://www.heatlok-soya.com/

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/12/2008 3:14 PM

Yes--I'm familiar with Demilec Heatlok Soy, which is about 56% soy derived, I believe--it sets up as closed-cell and quite rigid as well--problems are 1) it tends to generate rather a lot of heat during the expansion process, so they recommend not more than about 1.5 inches in one pass, so it would take about three passes about four hours apart to reach depth I would like; 2) I have yet to pin someone down on the type/cost/complexity of equipment needed to apply; 3) I'm concerned about toxic outgassing, which again Demilec provides very little info--I've looked at Icynene www.icynene.com as well, very interesting product, but requires highly specialized equipment and training to apply.

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#4

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/12/2008 2:32 AM

I had used semi rigid polyurethane sheets draped over wire screen then sprayed with resin to form parts for vehicle bodies and for acoustic appliances. I don't know of this type procedure using an organic based fire resistant colloid.

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#5

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/12/2008 2:36 AM

A quilted type cloth with integral baffles then filled with vegetable based foam...hm...could also impregnate fire retardants ...

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#7

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/13/2008 12:00 AM

One thought had been to use compressed air to foam up a pour-in-place material of Ironweed/Castorbean material, and form panels in the manner of "tilt-up" concrete structures, but we would like to have as seamless a structure as possible.

This may be the best solution and then coat with a latex?

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#8

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/14/2008 2:46 AM
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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/14/2008 10:59 AM

There was no comment of structural integrity only insulation property.

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#12
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Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/14/2008 1:59 PM

yes--and yurts as well

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#9

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/14/2008 8:36 AM

http://www.cpifoam.com/

this is one of many sites -- i would not be as worried about the "green" potential - as the energy and cost saving of the final marketed product. reason being:

all natural oils can be used in biodiesel and are therefore priced as petroleum in the market - the creation of Polyol - a component ot the reactive mixture requires processing beyond the biodiesel step adding costs

in the case of soy - the activity was to raise the price of beans - not save the planet

if you are in asia - as you point out castor is the best choice (not imported economically to north america, then palm oil polyol from Malaysia.

rigid materials however can contain the highest percentage of these natural oil materials

as you are not registered - i would be glad to point you to contacts - having better understanding of your objective - modular panel - for example - Centria - have been produced for quite a while

best of luck

bruce

bruce@urethaneconsulting.com

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#11

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/14/2008 12:27 PM

You may want to check out this link. http://www.sprayfoam.com/npps/story.cfm?nppage=84

There is a product called Greensulate.

It may not be as rapid an installation as you are seeking, but since this material may provide fireproofing as well as reducing the amount of toxins created the benifits may be worth the inconvience.

This was featured on the TV show Invention Nation.

Good Luck,

Marc

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#13
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Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/14/2008 11:23 PM

A shrooms man...cool link.

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#14

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/15/2008 9:17 AM

Perhaps not exactly what you are looking for, but you might look for polyurethane 2-component , closed cell, low density foams based on Linseed oil, and possibly Castor Oil. The R values can be quite impressive. Contact some of the larger PU suppliers for information and guidance.

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#15

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/16/2008 1:49 AM

Look up "bini-shell" construction.

Plastic sheet laid on ground, re-inforcement laid on that, air pumped inside/underneath the plastic sheet to raise it to full height, then entire thing coated with concrete. Concrete sets and plastic form is deflated and re-used.

The four that I've seen are used as baskeball stadium in schools in Newcastle in Australia.

If you can find a lighter (cheaper to transport) replacement for the concrete then you're probably on a winner.

Good luck.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/16/2008 12:06 PM

Thank you

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#17

Re: Search for non-toxic, vegetable-based, self-expanding, insulative rigid foam

04/16/2008 8:49 PM

Thanks for the links

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