Aternative Energy (AE) Solutions for Philippine Factories - Which is "ideal"?

01. Herewith are additional info on Case Study # 2: (1st) Prospective Client has a 3-stage Processing Plant. Stage-1: BUNKER is used in a 350HP Burner/Boiler; Stage-2: DIESEL & BUNKER is used by 2 500HP Burner/Boiler; Stage-3: BUNKER is used in a 700HP Burner/Boiler; (2nd) The Plant pays a high price for a local Coop-supplied Electricity. Hence, it operates a 2.5MW Diesel-fed GenSet for its Lighting; (3rd) The Plant is located inside a 36-hectare Export Processing Zone with its own Port Facility.

02. Inasmuch as "dirty" Fossil Fuel and Electricity are costly and Water Resource becoming Politically sensitive; the APIX-SEP-Philippines Project could really be the "Ideal" Solution if its Design Concept could provide comprehensive solution to all 3 Issues (POWER, ELECTRICITY, and WATER likely tapped from the Sea and desalinated accordingly) not only for this Prospect Client - but also, for incoming New Locators in the Zone.

03. I await the "bright" ideas of my APIX Network. Thanks.

Hi manilaman

The "promise" of coming back to the immediate problem of solving Energy Related projects for your customer is being kept! I am here to answer all your queries/ doubts/ techno-economic data needs.

While assuring that APIX-SEP would answer the needs of Power/ Heat/ Electricity, Water, Biofertilizer and perfect Recycling, we need the following definite inputs from you for Design and Computations:

1. What is the average annual rainfall in the vicinity of your factory? By vicinity we mean the surroundings to an extent of about 10 sq.km to 15 sq.km

2. What types of general vegetation matter are available in the said surroundings?

3. What is the overall population density in the area? Is it a village? What legal system of Governance?

4. Is it possible to give a sketch of the factory in the said surroundings, with the terrain/ geographical data?

5. Is it possible to get some photographs of the ecosystems/ flora-fauna of the surroundings?

Awaiting your early reply to these NEEDS

Best wishes

pvhramani (hari)

01. I'm certainly happy to have you back in this Discussion Thread. Herewith are the Answers to your Questions: (1st) Vegetation & Terrain. Despite my not having been to the PlantSite myself, as yet, I am very familiar with the Philippine Countryside - and have been to the TownSite some 3 years ago. Inasmuch as I've been told that our Prospect Client has its own port, I could only visualize that the 36-hectare newly classified EcoZone must have a coastline and a slightly sloping terrain. Your Picture of a Farmer's Nipa Hut inside a Coconut Farm is typical of the Philippine Rural Countryside - distant from the TownProper. Rice Paddies could be found in the Town Plains. The Plant's TownSite is adjacent to another Town which was a Gold Mine once-upon-a-time ; (2nd) Political Set-up. Like all other Philippine Political Jurisdictions, each has its own set of Local Officials, acting autonomously, but only up to the next level of hierarchy, better described as follows: National Gov't (NG) with its specialized Agencies + Local Gov't Units (LGU) descending downwards - Provincial Gov't, Town Gov't, Barangay (Village) Gov't. EcoZones are governed by NG Special Laws exempting Ecozone Operations from Local Jurisdiction, etc. To-date, our prospect Client is the only locator in this newly classified "EcoZone"; (3rd) Population. I would guess there could be no more than 100,000 residents of the Town; (4th) Rainfall. I do not have the number - but I shall quickly pass this on if & when I get this info; (5th) Factory Layout. I shall endeavor to secure and post this - with Client's prior approval.

02. This Discussion Thread started off with my envisioned AlterPower GreEnergy Philippines Inc (AGP) as an interested Consulting &/or Contracting Vendor of the "Ideal" AEM Solution in lieu of our Client's Fossil-based Fuel Cost. Your BioMass-based APIX-SEP proposal is now developing to be the "centerpiece" of what could be the ideal AEM Solution (likewise addressing the additional concerns for WATER & LIGHT) not only for our Client - but more likely, for other incoming EcoZone Locators in the future. With all the "bright" minds in our APIX Network, it is my hope that "rewards" would come our way - sooner rather than later. If all goes well, I plan to give my collaborating APIX Colleagues a "fair share" of the Project's Profit - or even perhaps, a slice of AGP's Equity. BTW, with a "Success Story", AGP may even develop into an Independent Power Producer (IPP), entitled to Gov't Incentives, installing customized AEM Solutions wherever needed in the Philippines. But for now, my principal Target Market are Industrial Plants.

Hi manilaman

I now await to obtain as much info as possible from your side (as requested in the thread )

This would help us come back with the Optimum project for your customers

Best wishes

hari

Hari et. al.,

I have passed on your Questions to my prospect Client (Case Study # 2) - and would pass on their Answers if & when I get them. Meanwhile, could you take a 2nd look at my Case Study # 1? I await.

Hi manilaman

1. Nice ... hearing from you, and shall await your further feedback

2. The subject matter of CASE STUDY # 1 looks like a small size Electric Power unit, in the range 65 KWe to 70 KWe (based on 15, 000 L of Diesel usage per month). Here again, your description of the place/ surroundings show the best potential for Methane gas based Generator system. And, in this case the system would be of relatively small size. Perhaps we could think of such small size methane Gas generator-cum Power systems for various other small units too. If we were to design such a unit (say 65 KWe power unit) that is to work 24x7, the cost range (as computed under Indian conditions) would be around US $70, 000. The customer would have Energy (for in-house use), Biofertilizers (for sale) and a few Chemicals (for sale). The basic Agrowastes raw materials would have a cost content of less than US $32 per ton.

In general, it is observed that in almost all Tropical based countries where the rainfall is above 800 mm, and having relatively good vegetation growth (over 60 tons per annum per ha), Biogas system based energy arrangement would be the Greenest, Cheapest and environmentally sound (ZW-ZC-BM)

pvhramani

Hi manilaman

Apart from the 65 KWe power generation, the CHP arrangement would add up to another 1.2 million K-cal per day

pvhramani

Again, I must say that our Case Study # 1 is located nowhere near a Vegetation Environment. In my Case Brief, I endeavored to give a clear view of our Prospective Client's PlantSite - No Vegetation & No Space for Sun & Wind systems. As a Steel Tower Fabrication Plant, it uses up 3-phase Electricity bought from the Grid. The singular concern of our Client is how to cut his rising cost of Diesel Fuel. If we have an AE Solution to cut his cost and to earn him Carbon Credits to make his Fuel Conversion Project "bankable" - then we're in business.

Hi manilaman

There seems to be some "perceptional" confusion. Your original statement is: "The Plant is located about 10 kms away from Landfills; about 5 kms away from Livestock Farms and from 2 Feedmills; about 100 meters from an Industrial Sawmill." It may be noted that vegetation from in and around about 10 km to 15 km would be a perfect and economically viable raw material source for APIX-SEP projects, based on Methane gas systems. If I am not wrong about your statement that there are Livestock farms and Feed mills near your client factory (within the stipulated distance range), our requirements of plants/ vegetation raw materials for the 65 KWe power plant (additionally producing 1.2 million k-cal heat per day) are readily available (including animal wastages).

Please also note that EVERY ENTREPRENEUR WILL SOON HAVE TO INNOVATE USING ALL AVAILABLE RENEWABLE RESOURCES TO COUNTER THE RISING OIL/ FOSSIL FUEL COSTS - and the costs are increasing by the hour (just about an hour back the News was that the Oil Barrel price is about $112 to $115!!!). What we are talking about (APIX-SEP) would be the BEST BET for all of us in tropical countries.

And, it would be in the interests of all concerned that here after, any solution can never be based on "short-term", but would have to be "long-term". APIX-SEP based on Renewable vegetation is one of the most Optimum systems for this

Best wishes

pvhramani

Hari,

My understanding of a "Vegetation Environment" is a place with lots of Trees, Grasses, and any other type of AgriFarming. This is NOT the environment of our Client's PlantSite. The "Landfills" are actually Dumpsites (taking-in MetroManila Wastes) engineered along the logged-over Mountain-sides. The "Livestocks Farms" are 80% Chicken Farms (Layers & Friers) + 20% Pig Farms owned & operated by many independent Farmers. Air-Dry Chicken "Droppings" beneath the stilt-built Chicken-Houses are periodically contracted by Organic Fertilizer Producers paying a "good" price. Pig Farms would normally have the PigWaste collected in cement-built lagoons. Believe it or not, the "Industrial Sawmill" is misplaced - just too far away from any Tropical Forest. The "Feed Mills" are supplied with Truckloads of Corn Grits travelling from as far as 500 kms away. There is no Corn Plantation nearby.

In conclusion, about the only "sustainable" Energy Source proximate to the PlantSite would really be BioGas from LandFills and from PigWaste. I do not know of any other.

I'm sure you have considered this route, but using concentrated solar energy to heat a Dowtherm (or more modern fluid) to a high temperature would allow you to use heat for your process, if needed, and to generate steam for both process and electrical generation, or use "solar cells" in the solar concentrator to generate electricity directly. One could also use return steam to yield condensate for potable water. What are the economics for using semi-permeable membranes to desalinate sea water? Do the US Army Corps of Engineers have any publically available plans for the desalination plants they built in the Near East? Couple these features with "windmill" or wind turbine power generators. There are also electrical generators that work on a piston principle, where ocean wave action drives the piston. A bit further out in left field might be biomass fermentation to yiend alcohol that could be added to petroleum fuels to reduce cost.

Your Alternative Energy Mix (AEM) Sun-Wind-Wave-BioGas (SWWB) is really an option I keep actively open in my mind - given that all of the above are available at my Prospect's Plantsite. On the other hand, I'm presently tending towards the APIX-SEP Concept as my preferred Option-for-now for 3 reasons: (1st) Hari calculates that a 1000 Hectare Vegetation Environment (as is with my Case Study # 2) could sufficiently and sustainably provide the equivalent Heat & Electricity of my Prospect's present usage of Fossil Fuel; (2nd) Plantsite delivered cost of FarmWaste BioMass has been estimated to be not more than 1/35th the present cost of Fossil Fuel; (3rd) Apart from its BioEnergy Output, APIX-SEP would additionally have other Value-added products (i.e. BioChemicals, Organic Fertilizer, engineered CellolousWaste-based Utilitarian Goods) which the other "clean" Alternative Energy Options simply do not provide. Thanks and Regards

Magandang hapon. One thing that you should look into is a supply of super-heated geothermal steam. A few years ago, I toured the geothermal plant in Ormoc, and was quite impressed with the operation. Using either steam itself as a heat source, or as a heat source to process aminal and vegetable biomass refuse, I think would be a low cost alternative to petroleum fuels. There appeared to be plenty of land on the mountain there in Ormoc to build a processing plant. Is processing of oil-bearing shale or sands an alternative? Much of the cost of such processing is the petroleum fuel costs, which can be largely eliminated, using geothermal heat sources. Is the landfill "Smokey Mt"? Have you considered building a trash-burning facility to generate steam and electricity? Would the government underwrite such a venture if you could supply the power grid with significant amounts of electricity? What is the availability of refuse coconut husks and similar biomass waste for fuel? If any of this is worth pursuing, let's chat. (My wife is a lovely Filipina, Ilocano, from Pangasinan).

Cardio07,

Our prospect Client's PlantSite is nowhere near a GeoThermal resource. The "LandFill" is not "Smokey Mountain" located in Manila City. The PlantSite is located in the border of San Mateo & Rodriguez (Rizal Towns) - some 30 kms NorthEast of Manila. Pangea Green Energy Phils Inc (a Filipino-Italian JV Co) is soon to harvest BioGas (intended to run a Gas-fed Electrical GenSet to interconnect to the City's Grid) from "Payatas" - a 22 hectare landfill of Quezon City, some 10 kms South of the PlantSite. I'm told that neighboring Landfills of Montalban & Antipolo are likewise being considered for BioGas harvest. BTW, the Philippines has a "Clean Air Act" which bans all kinds of Incineration. The nearest Coconut Plantation is about 200 kms South from PlantSite.

Should you plan to visit (or, re-visit) your "lovely Filipina" Wife's home-country, I would consider it a priviledge to meet up with you while in MetroManila. I reside in Marikina City.

Thanks for your response. I didn't know where you were located, thus the suggestions re geothermal sources in Tungonan, Ormoc, as a possible site for building a process plant for biomass fuels, etc. This would not entail any incineration, only "cooking". I also assumed that any coconut plantation , except small ones like Villa Escudero, would be a distance away. Any possibility of using vegetable oils from waste farm products and biomass to augment your Bunker and diesel fuels? Re the "Clean Air Act" banning incineration, apparently no one associated with the Clean Air Act in the government travels out to the Provinces, as we see farm after farm burning piles of farm waste and trash.

Actually, we will be there in Manila and Pangasinan this summer. We used to go at Christmas and New Year's, but with 2 boys in school, we now have to go in the summer. We may be able to meet during our trip. I'll advise dates later, and maybe we can meet. We may stay one night in Manila, but we typically pass thru Manila, or stay there for a few days to tour around. The Philippines are my "second home", and I like to see and do as much as possible. I've always wanted to retire there, but my wife wants the boys educated in the States. They are both Honor Roll students. Digna, my wife, is a UB graduate, and she has family in Baguio also. Maraming Salamat.

Keep in touch on your Return Visit to Manila. Ill await developments at your end.

Will do. Kindly keep in touch and let me know if you have any success in your project. Many people are adjusting their car engines to run on vegetable oils in place of gasoline or diesel. That's where I was going with the "cooking biomass" with geothermal steam, such as on the mountain in Ormoc.

This site may contain some useful background information regarding the technical aspects of these proposals

http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html

Karl,

I've earlier taken note of this Link in the course of my 1-month x 10-hrs/daily Internet Research. Nevertheless, "Thanks".

While not really my line of expertise, I've talked with a few engineers hereabouts regarding their planned and implemented conversion to biomass (sawdust, coconut shells, rice husks).

While the prices of these items are very low now, they think that the price for the fuel will rise as demand increases (more companies get into it). They also worry about the availability of the fuel. Today it seems that the stocks are seemingly limitless. Again, as demand rises, they fear that stocks may eventually become scarce. Thus, they opt to have a dual fuel facility (diesel/bunker + biomass) "just in case".

Before they go into alternative fuels, however, I suggest they first go into optimizing their processes so that it uses less fuel. I won't elaborate on how this can be done, they know their processes better. That way, they can reduce the overall demand for energy, whether it be alternative or the usual.

Vulcan,

1. My advocacy for "Clean Environment" and my promotion for the use of "Alternative Energy" are 2 different issues. Ensuring Power Plant Efficiency and the shift from Fossil Fuel to Alternative Energy (AE) are tangent to everybody's concern for Clean Environment. We both agree on the need for Power Plant Efficiency. But I contend that to continue using "dirty" Fossil instead of "clean" AE needs an Examination-of-Conscience - even more so, as FX Currency has to be spent to import "dirty" Fossil instead of using "clean" AE Options indigenously available in the Philippines. On the issue of Cost-of-Fuel, your friends argue that prices are not constant. True. And the Reality-of-Today is that Fossil Oil is now U$117/barrel vs U$20/barrel about 5 years ago. No one in the World believes that Fossil Oil would revert back ever. On the other hand, AE Resources (Sun, Wind, Wave, BioMass/Gas, Hydro, Geotherma, etc are 100% free (if not nearly cost-free) and its relevant AE Machineries/Systems are getting cheaper.

02. Co-Generation (Fossil + AE) does have merit - for the fearful and the uninformed. But it's a good start - nevethless.

But how clean is "clean" alternative energy?

Wind, Wave or Solar are "clean" in that they do not emit any "dirty" substances or, if they do (e.g. lubricant leaks from bearings), it is very minimal.

I'm talking about biogas or biomass. These are burned and contribute "dirt" like a diesel engine or fossil fueled burner. Consequently, ash from, say, a sawdust or coconut shell fueled furnace or boiler has to be separated from the flue gas and that involves more equipment (scrubbers, electro-static precipitators, etc.).

I've been to lumber mills that use sawdust for their boilers and the amount of ash lying around certainly didn't look healthy. A friend at one of those mills even told me that they dump the ash into the sea! That mill was closed eventually (pending their compliance with environmental laws, no doubt).

I'm not against alternative energy. However, I'll need to educate myself some more (a lot more!) to really contribute to what you're advocating.

Hello Vulcan

Greetings!

When you say, "However, I'll need to educate myself some more (a lot more!) to really contribute to what you're advocating", it makes you a personality of enhanced quality. We have many things UNKNOWN in this world than what we think we know.

As a start, please look at this site:

http://www.nrel.gov/

Many of our misconceptions would begin to slowly fade!

Best wishes

pvhramani

Hello again. I have read Vilcan's et al recent responses. One thing that we have not talked about, mainly because I don't know your needs for energy (for example, steam at what temperature/pressure), if this is of interest. One thing to look at, and there are a lot of these sites operating, would be concentrated solar energy on water/steam generator and pipes. Temperatures can be quite high. One would be able to design and put together a dish or semi-cylindrical solar reflector, and place the major steam generator system on a turn table to keep the solar rays at maximum. In addition to water/steam, liquids like Dowtherm and similar, or even liquid metals can also be used. Give it some thought and see if this has any interest. Best regards.

This is exactly the subject in which we, a small Group, have formed an OPEN SOURCE ENGINEERING DESIGN GROUP:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/blog/97/APIX-Pilot-Plant-Design-Project-Recycling-Wastes

Though we are only at a "beginning stage", the depth of the levels of experiences of the different members is such that we could "deliver" in terms of TIME/ FUNCTIONALITY/ SUSTAINABILITY.

Your Concept of AEM is plausible, feasible and MUST be resorted to, if long term SUSTAINABILITY is of prime concern, wherein our dependence on "fossil fuels" and other depleting resources CANNOT be the answer.

We have certain specific systems under active design.

The essential features in our Concept of APIX-SEP are:

1. The BEST resources are the RENEWABLE PLANT/ VEGETATION resources (both Agro-based and non- agro-based)

2. The per annum per ha growth rates would decide the quanta of material, resources in any Region, and this generally depends on the climatic conditions (mainly the rains)

3. In a tropical region such as Philippines, where the rain fall ranges between 1000 mm to 4000 mm, the average per annum per ha vegetation growth would be in the range 75 tons to 175+ tons. A typical countryside in Philippines shows the vegetation systems we have:

Hello gentleman... Heaven Net

It looks like you have the knack of usurping into another person's (group's) subject and hijack it for presenting the same as your own personal material. What should we call this act? And who are you..Please????

Your "thread" is a ditto copy form this:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/207309/Re-What-makes-an-Ideal-Design-for-a-rural-based-Philippine-Industrial-Plant

Please apologize for this wrong action!

pvhramani

we of the Agro-bioginics do not know the person who posted this file. We, the Agro-bioginics people own the trademark Agro-biogenics and the trade mark of APIX. Who this person of Heaven .net Please contact us emediately and explain or will will need to take action.