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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3

How to lower gas prices

04/21/2008 11:08 PM

interesting thought.......read on!

THIS IS NOT THE 'DON'T BUY' GAS FOR ONE DAY, BUT IT WILL SHOW YOU HOW WE

CAN GET GAS BACK DOWN TO $1.30 PER GALLON.

This was sent by a retired Coca Cola executive. It came from one of his

engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. If you are tired of the

gas prices going up AND they will continue to rise this summer, take

time to read this please.

Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea.

This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy gas on a certain day'

campaign that was going around last April or May!

It's worth your consideration. Join the resistance!!!!

I hear we are going to hit close to $ 4.00 a gallon by next summer and

it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come down?

We need to take some intelligent, united action. The oil companies just

laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to 'hurt'

ourselves by refusing to buy gas.

It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them.

BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can

Really work. Please read on and join with us!

By now you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $2.00 is super

cheap. Me too! It is currently $ 3.45 for regular unleaded in my town.

Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to

think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we

need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the

marketplace...not sellers.

With the price of gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to

take action.

The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if we hit

s omeone in the pocketbook by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do

that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.

How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas.

But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force

a price war.

Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline

from the two biggest companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL.

If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to reduce their

prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to

follow suit.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon and

Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out on me at

this point...keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach

millions of people!!

I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us send it to at least

ten more (30 x 10 = 300) .. and those 300 send it to at least ten more

(300 x 10 = 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the

sixth group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION

consumers.

If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each,

then 30 million people will have been contacted!

If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION

PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all!

(If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have

to do is send this t o 10 people.... Well, let's face it, you just

aren't a mathematician. But I am . so trust me on this one.

How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten

more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could

conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!

I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much potential, did you !

Acting together we can make a difference.

If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that

we not buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $2.00

RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK.

Keep it going

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#1

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/22/2008 8:06 AM

Easy. Use less of it.

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#2

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/22/2008 5:51 PM

I had read that before and at first thought it mite work. In thinking deeper on the subject i find a few problems with it. First which ever company you pick they will then dump their as on the market to all the independents. Like the convenience stores. If they dump their gas on this secondary market how will we know which stations pump what. Will we have to have legislation that makes the station show its source like on a bottle of water. Getting that to pass would be a joke with the deep pockets oil companies have and legislators that will be quick to help them. Second for it to really hurt them you will need to pick one that has a large investment in company own stations. Which will force them to ether lower the price of gas or close them up. There in itself is an unfortunate problem because if they close then our actions would be putting people out of work.

If I do not use gas from the chosen company and I don't reduce my consumption then the demand is the same how does that reduce the price.

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#3

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/22/2008 6:31 PM

Yes, yes please, do not buy gas from Exxon....

BTW all the refiners contribute to the same base stock of gasoline. When you buy branded gas you are actually buying that companies additives and blend. But they all pump base stock gasoline into one big tank and then they draw it off for blending. So even if you stop buying Exxon gasoline, all that means is that Chevron or Valero, or whoever, will buy the base stock from Exxon and use their own blend and sell it to you. Exxon will loose cash flow on the blend, but if this plan was really implemented the only ones to be hurt would be Exxon's licensed gas station owners, little guys who would be forced out of business, and who would be bought out by Chevron or Valero or whoever, and little would change... Exxon would keep making billions pumping oil out of the ground and refining it to gasoline and other chemicals and the price of gasoline would not go down a bit.

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#4

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/22/2008 11:29 PM

Too bad the author of this screed was only a self proclaimed "mathematician" and hadn't passed his 11th grade economics course.

Then he'd understand about elasticity, demand, commodity, and oligopoly concepts. if you don't buy from the two targets companies, they'll sell their excess commodity to the others who have demand, AT THE MARKET PRICE. This kind of consumer gimmickry does not affect prices in the long run. it will, however, punish the ma and pa proprietors of the reltailers dispensing the fuel.

BAD idea. BAd math. Zero economics understanding.

MAthematician My Butt.

milo

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#29
In reply to #4

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 9:09 PM

BTW, some of us invested in Exxon-Mobil stock for our retirement. Should we go out and screw ourselves?

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#5

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 12:22 AM

Fabtech Dont believe every email message that comes your way

Gas Out of Exon/Mobil to Lower Gas Prices

Only lower consumption will bring prices down.

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#6

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 1:38 AM

Okay, for a moment let's say you are right about this ideas merit.

Next week park a car along side the road along the route tanker trucks use to load fuel at the refinery or pipeline distribution terminals. Have a camera in the car record the fuel company names on the trucks.

Better idea forget about it. All the fuel comes from the same pipeline and is dispersed into the different fuel company trucks.

It's all the same fuel; each company advertises a gimmick about how there gas includes such and such additive' what they don't tell you is all gasoline contains those additives. Example:

Techrolene is one advertised additive, all gas has it because it is the component that causes octane levels to be controlled.

Google "peak oil" and you may begin to understand the issue before us today.

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#35
In reply to #6

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/24/2008 3:18 PM

Search for Peak Oil, but also look up Matt Simmons. He is the "Socrates" of the Oil Industry, and not enough people are listening to him.

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#7

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 1:42 AM

Or the adoption of a truly reliable, and implementable alternative......

Now wouldn't that be nice, put the big guys out of biz, let the little guys switch over.....

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#50
In reply to #7

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 3:21 PM

The little guys don't have the infrastructure

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#8

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 2:15 AM

Couple of problems. First, there are just far too many company cars on the road. Company cars = company petrol. Do you for one minute think the guy getting free petrol gives a sh*t about anything? If there are less people buying petrol, then the oil companies will just pump less oil. Price remains. The whole thing is that we were so energy driven that we were caught off guard. Next time you are on the road, count how many cars drive with only one person in it??? Remember, it's all about the money. The world revolves around money and power and will also be the downfall of man one day. The refineries can also help by producing more fuel but do you think they want to give up their huge profits? We in SA many years ago were suckered by the government that some petrol tax and motor licence fee was going to contribute to the build of a petroleum company that can produce fuel from coal. The company was build and now makes various petroleum products. Price?? Linked to the barrel of brent. So we make fuel out of coal and pay international oil price rates. To top it all, this same company also have there own wells where they pump oil from. The fat cat bosses and government swim in the money naturally. Petrol/diesel prices in SA are reviewed monthly in SA. Petrol goes up one month, everything else goes up. (Food etc). Petrol comes down next month, nothing comes down. Nice hey. Diesel cost more in SA than petrol.

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#9

Re: How to live with gas prices

04/23/2008 4:52 AM

I'm afraid this time (unlike the 70's-80's) that can't work, and that you're just gonna have to get used to the price continuing to rise; $4 and up has already arrived here and its coming your way. The time's not far off when, like $2, you're gonna thing $4 was cheap.

One problem is, no matter how much we in U.S. don't buy (and just that thing is already happening rather dramatically), there are plenty of others who will buy...and that number is growing rapidly (and, sickeningly, we are helping them buy!)

Problem 2: Prices are the best inducement to increase of exploration and production; that too has been happening...but in these times it probably will only serve to moderate the rate of price growth.

Problem 3: The notion of gas price wars is a fading memory...probably even in places like Texas where it has always been a prevalent fact of life until...recently? The markets are pretty much carved up regionally and nationally and there are far fewer competitors. Even the independents have become largely consolidated (think of Valero the largest and how fast it is building corporate run stores). Mom and Pop stores? Fast fading.

Here in California, I have watched in somewhat amazement as streets and highways once normally very busy have become largely empty...seems people are driving only when it pays a return: commuting to earn a paycheck. (The greatly increased ease of getting around driving is one consolation.) I would estimate average off peak traffic to have dropped no less that 35-50% days, 70-90% nights but still the prices keep climbing.

The only thing I can see making a difference is that the beginning of major, and growing famine has started in earnest as food prices soar worldwide. Maybe the powers that be (as in governments) will see the need to do something about prices to stop, or at least ease, this growing calamity...but I'm not optimistic they can, even if they would.

But you are right that radical curtailment of personal mobility seems to be in the future, and increasingly so, for all of us...but not to coerce producers. The laws of supply and demand cannot be forced to work like that when supply cannot increase more than marginally while demand increases with no end in sight...boycotts or not.

And, an interesting aside--about how unwise land use has entered into the fuel price crisis. It has come to pass that many of the suburban houses (both new and foreclosed) are not finding buyers even at greatly reduced auction or seller ask prices. It has finally come to light (in the news and such) that it's the long commutes combined with high fuel prices which is causing a major downward adjustment in suburban housing prices...and a harbinger of major migrations back to the cities and original old suburbs. (Actually the urbanward trend already began a few years ago; now it's noticably gaining momentum.) In other words, a realization seems to be setting in that the value of urban-sprawl housing/land might be very long in recovering, if ever. This could mark the onset in the US of a tidal shift in social organization, i.e.: away from ever more remote living accomodations and the destruction of environment that entails; away from personal transportation and back to mixed personal/collective transportation; back to diversified transporation infrastructures; away from outsized houses and back to rationally sized dwellings; away from a house called "home©" to a state/town/neighborhood called home...in general, a reversal of decades of insane land use policy and exploitation. In the long run this could prove to be very much for the best.

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#19
In reply to #9

Re: How to live with gas prices

04/23/2008 12:01 PM

Many interesting thoughts. However, one notion I believe to be vitally important in mitigating the current trends is development of alternative energy sources. Much greater attention needs to be given to the vast amount of research already in place. If we spent half of the money on researching alternative fuel sources as we do in subsidizing the "big 5", our problems would be well on their way to being solved... Just a thought.

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#28
In reply to #19

Re: How to live with gas prices

04/23/2008 4:50 PM

Perhaps...but—

If you are referring—in addition—to trends I have mentioned, I'm not sure alternatives alone will ever be the answer; or that those trends I alluded to are necessarily a bad thing. One problem with "blind faith in technology" when it comes to looking for other fuels is the failure to realize that it was the seeming abundance and cheapness of fossil fuels—that and their practical superiority over all alternatives—that is at the heart of most all technological innovation, not exclusive of that which has driven us toward (what we perhaps unthinkingly perceive as)...the brink.

People—ambitious political aspirants not excluded—like to talk proudly about how knowledge has increased geometrically (or by some other leaps-and-bounds measure), and may be expected to continue doing so; but, as regards energy itself, they conveniently overlook or fail to understand that such progression of scientific and engineering prowess is not, and never was, simply a matter of brilliance or enlightened policy, or of knowledge building inexorably upon knowledge. The explosive growth of what we think of as knowledge/innovation could never have happened without one thing...yes, that's right, fossil fuels! Fossil fuels are the driver behind practically every knowledge (and societal) "advance" since the inception of the industrial revolution. As the scarcity and price of fossil fuels increases today, so the cost and difficulty of maintaining the knowledge growth that will be needed to keep societal expectations (for things, among uncounted others, like unbounded personal mobility) also growing...or even at status quo.

I am not so sure, either, why it should be that we continue turning our futures (and our governances) increasingly over to old, seemingly sacrosanct, corporate interests. As we watch from "safe distance" the efforts underway to develop alternative transportation fuels and infrastructures, I keep noticing how the same corporate entities which, by their own mismanagement of resources, have brought us to this point, are now, themselves, in a desperate chase to preserve themselves...by capturing and retaining control over any fuel resource that might prove in any way viable; this in order to perpetuate for all time their own, utter indispensiblity...even if that means keeping the world on a self destructive course of environment overexploitation. Case in point-- When I see the big petroleum corporations and personal vehicle manufacturers gaining entrenchment in alternative fuels development efforts, and sopping up taxpayer R & D largess in huge amounts in the process, I also wonder about a future in which, say, Shell or Exxon Mobil, or Toyota or GM, gain proprietary control not only of sunken resources, but also of air and water (supposedly free hydrogen), and of the free soil itself (our very food supply). Corollary question-- Could it be...a kernel of wisdom in Vlad Putin's decision that his nation's energy resources are best not left solely in the hands of private enterprise?

Just some thoughts.

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#31
In reply to #28

Re: How to live with gas prices

04/23/2008 9:37 PM

I'm not saying alternatives alone are the answer to all of our energy problems. I agree with your points, particularly when delving into corporate corroborations into government malfeasance. Obtaining the knowledge is a good step, but not nearly enough. Yeah, we've been there and done that in terms of petroleum, but there are so many other options available to us that are not being exploited (at least not on any major and honest level). These major corporations are being given billions in tax breaks every year to "explore" alternative energy sources... What exactly does the government think they are doing??? Does anyone honestly think that Exxon or Mobil or whoever is going to say "Hey, let's invest billions of dollars into driving ourselves out of business!! That would be a great idea, thanks tax payers!!". No, I'm sure they are putting some effort into the research, but let's be honest with ourselves, somebody is pocketing some money somewhere. I do not typically consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but this is probably as a good a place to start if there was one. Oh, and the corollary... Old Vlad may be onto something...

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#42
In reply to #9

Re: How to live with gas prices

04/26/2008 7:44 AM

I agree with everything but with an important modification. Public transport is a hassle. we can keep our independent mobility.

I just think that we can have cheap personal transportation now if we have the will to return to reasonable car safety requirements. Cars have practically become heavy and too-sophisticated moving devices to shield the occupant from physical injury. If we slow down and drive very small vehicles, accidents will basically be a thing of the past. We all rode bicycles as kids, yet think of how extremely rare serious injury was for us.

I'm not saying at all we go back to bikes. Microcars are the best answer. They can be electric propelled and cost 50 cents or less to charge for a range of 50 miles. That is the equivalent of 400 mpg!

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#10

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 8:20 AM

one other issue -

who is going to send this to Jennifer Anniston? after all, within six degrees of freedom, we are all going to be sending it to her any way -

one difficulty is that we all share a few friends, so they will get the lions share of the 200 million messages, and the balance of us will get a good feeling of having helped?

Jim

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#11

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 8:21 AM

An easier way is to just reduce your gas consumption by 10 percent.

Make fewer unnecessary trips.

Do a little ride sharing.

Change your air filter.

Use some fuel treatment and clean those carburetors and fuel injectors.

Change your spark plugs.

Change to synthetic oil.

If you do these simple things you can easily reduce you gas consumption by 5-10% depending on the year of your vehicle.There are other things that can be included in this but the concept of just a little goes a long way is much better than hit em hard once and watch em react.

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#14
In reply to #11

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 9:47 AM

I made a commitment to not drive my car to the dairy queen if I 'want ' Ice cream.

If I want ice cream, I have to ride my bike there. (Its a cool BikeE recumbent)

Its about three miles each way.

I figure its win win win- I get more excercise and burn more calories than the ice cream; Dairy queen still gets the sale, and the gasoline isn't wasted for a frivpolous treat.

As long as some idiot driving an SUV and talking on their cell phone doesn't run me down.

milo

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#24
In reply to #14

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 2:37 PM

"As long as some idiot driving an SUV and talking on their cell phone doesn't run me down."

Be very careful of that but Kudos on riding your bike. I personally carpool to work as it is 52 miles 1 way.

If I have to go by myself I ride my motorcycle to conserve gas.

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#12

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 8:39 AM

We are already using less. This doesn't work either. Why is it that the government controls price increases with all other utilities? Cable, phone, electric, propane, natural gas, etc... Our economy is going into a possible recession due to gas price increase. Gas has become a calculated monthly bill with most homes, not just a weekly expense as in the past. People can't afford to do anything but go to work and pay the bills they can. The house payment ends up coming in last, if it can be made at all. If the home gets foreclosed, one can always rent. But you have to have the other necessities like food and electric.

I was reading on MSN that OPEC has stated that they could increase their output if needed, but this would not help the current crisis. It has been the fall of the US dollar that has caused the price of oil to go up. The dollar is falling due to the current status of the economy, the current status of the economy is because of the price of gas. One viscous cycle ain't it.

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#13

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 8:49 AM

One solution. Lift your right foot off of the floor board. You would be surprised to see how much gas you save if you just slow down.

Another solution. Get freight off of the highways. Trains are about 100 times more efficient on a gallons per ton mile basis.

Another solution stop buying great huge gas hogs to haul your ass around. A car is a tool, not a sex object. Its purpose is to move your ass from point A to point B, not to look cool, not to attract chicks etc. Buy a small ugly fuel efficient car.

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 10:31 AM

A car, not a sex object? Hmmmmm . . . . I have to wonder how many were conceived in the back seat of a (fill in the blank here).

As a tool, the automobile has many uses depending on who is using it. It can be utilitarian, hauling one's derriere from point A to point B. It can be a source of entertainment as in " . . . Sunday morning, go for a ride." It can be one's pride and joy. We have all seen in certain areas of the US where the car parked outside of the owner's shanty is clearly worth several times their abode. And to the hormone addled teenager, the car is one path to their primal goal.

Let's make a deal. You don't tell me how to spend my money, and I won't tell you how to spend yours.

Yes, I drive a Chevy Suburban that gets 13 mpg around town, 16 mpg highway. I also have a VW Jetta that gets 28 mpg around town. Guess which vehicle gets driven more? It depends on whether I have my wife and four teen-aged kids to haul or not. But my preference is for my Suzuki DR350 that gets 65 mpg around town or the Buell that gets 40 plus.

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#23
In reply to #17

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 1:49 PM

Hear, Hear!! Brave Sir Robin!! It doesn't matter if we have everyone in America buy a hybrid... From what I have read and researched, our grandchildren or their children are going to run out of oil anyway. So we might as well use it while we are here! Then we can rely on nuclear power for the rest of eternity, like God meant it to be!

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#15

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 9:53 AM

Think it through. You or yourself and a million other people aren't going to "force" the Big Boys to lower their prices. The only sure way is to get rid of the current Bush Administration. The main reason that crude is selling for $110 to $ 120 a bbl is the falling value of the US dollar, vs. the Euro and other currencies. Think of the demand in the world markets, China especially. How many millions of gallons of gasoline, diesel, JP-7 etc does the U. S. etc military use every day in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc? Until that usage abates, demand and subsequent pricing will remain very high. It will take $ 4 to $ 5 a gallon (U.S.) before people start to demand alternative energy, Hybrid cars... not 450 or 500 hp cars, huge V-8s. Watch people filling up a big SUV or pick-up truck for $80 or $ 100. Then they turn around and drive 80 mph on the highway. Look at the new and used car lots, see what big, gas guzzling vehicles aren't selling. But people who write off gas prices and vehicle prices on their businesses etc don't think twice about $4 a gallon gasoline. How about the elderly who live on a fixed, usually low, income. Home heating oil is essentially a diesel refinery cut. Does the Bush Administration care about them?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 10:28 AM

Now you just had to bring in The Bush factor.. didn't ya. When are people going to realize that our President ain't nothing but a spokesman for the US. Its the Congress and Senate that run the US. All the President does is promise things he can't deliver (Dem or Rep) unless those in Congress and the Senate approve of it. Thats why we put those people there, to keep things... well... honest (very loose play on word usage here).

Plus if you read further into this crisis, usage and shortages are not the problem. Reduce US usage at home and abroad by 20%, and watch the price rise by 25%. The big boys are not going to like a cut in bonuses, so they up the price more to offset the lower usage.

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#32
In reply to #16

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/24/2008 1:24 PM

Yup. That's how I see things. Note that I said "Bush Administration", not the perpetrator himself. Most republicans in the Congress vote the way Uncle George "suggests" they vote, if they want the Party to help them get re-elected next term. When one looks at the multi-problems of dilapidated schools, mixed classes with non-English speaking kids, dilapidated roadways and bridges, health care problems and healthcare insurance issues and costs, and on and on, how then does one reconcile spending $ BILLIIONS in Iraq, using petroleum products (LOF) in the millions of gallons a day in Iraq and Afghanistan, bringing more and more foreigners (read Muslims) here and providing them with everything from food to housing, medicals to education? If you have an answer, apparently none of the presidential campaigners have one. I just get angry when I see the Muslims, that we sacrifice our military deaths for, spend untold $ Billions for, turn around and behead or kill with suicide bombs, innocent women, children, newspeople, doctors, aid workers. Do you hear any of the Muslims in the U.S. stand up and denounce their readical brothers and sisters?

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/24/2008 1:49 PM

Yo need to read a little more...

If you were to investigate the war and how we ended up there you would find a few things out. It was passed in congress due sole to the Rep. However it passed the Senate thanks to 30% of the Dem vote's. This tells me that it was a joint decision.

"mixed classes with non-English speaking kids"... I'm sorry, but you do know this is America right.

"dilapidated schools...dilapidated roadways and bridges"... You owe this to your state legislatures

"Do you hear any of the Muslims in the U.S. stand up and denounce their readical brothers and sisters"... As a matter of fact yes

From the Statue of liberty:

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

By the way, this has what to do with how to lower gas?

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#18

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 11:54 AM

You gonna trust it to one of these clowns?

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 1:19 PM

That's too funny. Fortunately, our Constitution prevents any of those clowns from doing too much damage.

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#47
In reply to #18

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 3:04 PM

On target...

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#20

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 12:25 PM

Won't work.

Who owns the oil companies? You may, I and many others own the oil companies either through stocks, or through a 401K plan.

The price of oil is being fueled by a greater world wide demand, the devaluation of the dollar, and by groups of speculators buying oil furthers thus cornering oil production.

The value of the dollar has been supported by the productivity of the American worker since we dropped the silver standard. Then as goods are being outsourced, the total goods produced by Ameracan has of coursed decreased. As our goods become overpriced on the world market compared to goods produced in the so called 3rd world countries, The American dollar will buy less and we will be forced to lower our living standards, Then as goods imported into the states becomes too pricey for the American population to purchase, American production should start to increase and the value of the dollar to increase.

Americans can start to increase the value of the dollar by not buying foreign goods. Or at least decrease the buying. Don't buy that car, that TV, that pair of boots.

When you go to work, produce an hours worth of production for every hour worked.

Tax imported goods to the same value as home produced goods.

Stop producing corn for ethanol and put that land back to food production. One of the reasons for cost increases in fuel is to pay for the ethanol used. Yes a good idea, use ethanol that raises the cost of production and at the same time lowers the MPG!

I better stop before I really start preaching.

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#38
In reply to #20

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/25/2008 8:26 AM

some very good points jmart23,

Does anyone really think that further government regulation will help the situation. The government can only tinker with the market, they can't manipulate it the way some people seem to think they can. Having the government try to control the free market is like an engineer trying to control gravity, you can tinker with it, manipulate its effects to a certain degree but you cannot defy it or outright control it no matter how hard you try.

many people are complaining about the oil companies profits and how it is not fair. I don't understand why people don't stop complaining and just go buy stock in the Oil Companies. Trust me, if you have shares in it, the pain is less severe.

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 5:17 AM

Complaining is a lot cheaper, an infinitely less risky. Buying stocks now? Not a good deal.

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#45
In reply to #41

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 9:12 AM

Buying stocks when they are out of favor is the Exemplar of a"GOOD DEAL."

If not a bolus purchase, then an incremental dollar cost averaging purchase.

When "everyone" can see that its not a good time to buy, The "few" will be buying and will profit selling to the wise "everyone" in the long term.

In my world, the highest risk is not even having an asset that can appreciate. Guarantee of no gain.

All other situations, there is a balancing of potentials for gain and loss, where risk can be viewed as the "length of the lever arm."

No horse in the race- no possibility of winning the race.

milo

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#48
In reply to #45

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 3:10 PM

Buy when the Market is in free fall, yeper and dance to the swing of rebound...

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#54
In reply to #41

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 7:48 PM

BTW, are you keeping your avatar dusted off? It seems to be getting a little darker...a little bit harder to make out.

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#21

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 12:39 PM

Not sure if it is GWB's fault or not, but the US dollar is adding about $14 to a barrel of oil right now based on a recent presentation I heard at a Syngas conference. Other factors such as local refining capacity, worldwide demand growth (China and India), and then the fact that most of the oil is located in places where the market is not allowed to regulate production and/or prices (Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Russia, Nigeria, etc.) are causing price hikes/speculation as well.

Then when you look at natural gas prices, construction prices, power prices, etc. you can see that everything is elevated right now, which makes their cost to produce gasoline higher as well. This will translate to the customer price no matter what. I don't think Exxon would even notice your fuel strike. Even though the refiners are making a lot of money, they are reinvesting it in production increases at refineries and wells in addition to having to meet new purity standards in the fuel, which means more unit operations required for the same fuel.

My gas price is nothing compared to the price of a home in a couple of the states I may have to relocate to in the next few years. To me, that is a much bigger deal than even $10 gas.

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#25

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 3:24 PM

It's a seller's market, period.

The only answer is to (make) do without it.

OK, so no one likes to walk, go without, etc.
but what's the mother of invention..?

These giants are geared up for high sales, with
corresponding overheads, very vulnerable.

To get the price down is simple really, make
it a buyers market. If you (we all) can resist
guys, will you see the price fall! It's up to you.

jt.

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when I realised my life was in ruins.

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#26

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 4:41 PM

My 17 year old on asked me the other night why don't the government just pass another law to regulate the petroleum industry. I was surprised by his thinking and explained why we don't need another government intervention with some new law. He replied with well they already regulate electricity, natural gas and many other types of energy so what would it hurt to add one more? I really didn't have much of an argument other than this is the way capitalism works and everyone has a chance to make money and spend it as they see fit in the USA. I love my country and would not want to live anywhere else and I get ticked every time I pump 120.00 of diesel in my truck at over 4 bucks a gallon. It is usually at this point I try and think how bad it would be if gas was close to 8.00 a gallon as I've heard it is in some countries. With this in mind it is hard for me to bitch about it as much as I would like to be able to. I think we just have to face the fact that we are going to have to pay more for it. As far as blaming George Bush for the higher prices it is hard for me to buy into that if a president wants his party to win an upcoming election why he wouldn't want to lower the price of gas? it would seem to me this would be a good way to keep his party in the whitehouse. Anyways it just don't make good since to me to say it is all George's fault.

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#30
In reply to #26

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 9:14 PM

One point you miss with regrds to higher gas prices in foreign countries is that they dont have the same emissions requirements and other factor that result in fuel guzzling for their vehicles. Earlier this week I raised the issue of fuel consumption of autos in europe and some other countries. They were often getting 2X the mileage that we get on similar cars in the US.

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#49
In reply to #30

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 3:20 PM

Less gas in means less pollutants out but how could it be so simple

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#36
In reply to #26

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/24/2008 5:39 PM

Not sure about Georgia, but in a lot of states the government is getting out of electicity regulation... resulting in higher prices...

Just curious how much do you pay for a kwh? It is about 13 cents in the Houston area...

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#37
In reply to #36

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/25/2008 1:56 AM

In SA it is about 32c to 48c per Kwh. With a 60% increase on the horizon. And they still try and make us believe it is cheaper than anywhere in the world. You know what a stupid donkey is called. Power in SA is knee deep. We have what they call load-shed every day. They just cut the power when they want, where they want, day or night. Then it stays off for approx 4hrs on end. Substations are beginning to fail due to overload and bad maintenance. Then again the whole country infrastructure is failing due to bad maintenance and poor upkeep. And guess who now has to pay for it all??

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#40
In reply to #37

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/25/2008 9:58 AM

Is that SA currency or US dollar... if SA then you are paying 5 US cents per KWh, or about a 1/3 of what I pay...

The difference is that it is rare for us to have an outage where you have one every day...

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#51
In reply to #37

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 3:24 PM

Time to go off grid, justifiable?

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#43
In reply to #36

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 8:35 AM

Indeed, the ones in favor of deregulation are the ones who want to get more money. it turns out that it's our money they're after.

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#27

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/23/2008 4:49 PM

Got that e-mail couple days ago. My thought was that it would not work because it does not reduce consumption. But what if we stopped cutting and fertilizing our lawns. Just curious about how much fuel is used for lawns. This thought came from a co-worker years ago who was from Africa. His couldn't understand why Americans put so much effort into lawns but don't grow food.

Thanks

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#44
In reply to #27

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 8:38 AM

I am glad someone noticed that lawn vanity thing.

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#46
In reply to #44

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 9:19 AM

My neighbors don't much care for me as that is a game I don't play well.

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#53
In reply to #46

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 3:49 PM

I know all too well what you mean.

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#34

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/24/2008 3:01 PM

This is just another stupid idea and propaganda to get people away from the true issues.

The oil companies may make huge dollar denominated profits but the percentage they earn is between 8-12%, that is not excessive.

The 2 main issues as to why the price is so high are

1. Supply and demand, our demand is eeking up on the supply capacity. There are a ridiculous amount of vehicles on the road, and the traffic is increasing the consumption. If you have something everyone needs you can charge whatever you want. That is capitalism. If you need fuel and don't want to pay for gas, then create your own fuel. It is not your right to be able to put gasoline in your car.

2. A large portion of the price increase is government created. Our nations money supply (M3) is growing faster than it has at any point in our history, this is causing horrible inflation. Inflation is not an increase in the price of goods, it is the increase in supply of money that causes the money you already have to be diluted of its value. Rising prices is not inflation, it is only a symptom of inflation. If you want to proof then look at the price of oil in terms of gold and see how much it has really gone up over the last 6 years.

If you want the price to be lower, go after the government. They make more profit on every gallon of gas bought than anyone from the drilling operators to the people workingn the gas station and they don't even do any work or contribute to the process. They are leeches and they are only trying to direct our attention away from the problems they are causing. People need to open their eyes but alas that won't happen, it will never be more than 10-15% of the population that understand what is contributing to the gradual lowering of our standard of life.

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#52
In reply to #34

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/26/2008 3:28 PM

Fifteen years ago cars with 45+ mpg were readily available but where did they go and why isn't it profitable now?

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#57
In reply to #52

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/27/2008 6:39 PM

It wasn't really profitable then, either. They were the show ponies. It made the manufacturers look like they cared. The public bought them for a while then lost interest. And the 45+ mpg cars were quietly retired.

You see the general public is like a teenager (I have two) they want the next new thing. And it doesn't matter if the next new thing is just a rehash of something old as long as it's shiny. But polish a turd, its still a turd.

Sorry about the language, but you get my drift.

Cordially, Blue

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#39

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/25/2008 9:48 AM

With all the talk about how to lower prices, PWSlack #1 nails it on the head. Pure and simple. I gave it a point for good answer, because it is the only answer that really works.

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#55

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/27/2008 12:08 AM

Base our currency on the gold standard so the government can't inflate the currency supply. Most people would not like the financial responsibility this would mandate. Supply causes price fluctuations, but inflation is the real reason for the price rise.

James

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#56
In reply to #55

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/27/2008 4:13 AM

Please to explain if you dare. Especially the part about financial responsibility mandate. What do you mean by gold standard? Thanks.

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#60
In reply to #56

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/28/2008 8:28 PM

gold standard = tangible standard

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#62
In reply to #60

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/29/2008 2:37 AM

So is that what you're saying guest was guessing? Tangible intangible?

So, tangible intangible? Is that what you're guessing guest was saying?

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#63
In reply to #62

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/29/2008 4:17 AM

If Guest was saying tangible intangible meaning gold vs. fiat yes tangible intangible is what I was guessing Guest was saying or what I was saying Guest was guessing on flip side.

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#58

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/28/2008 6:05 AM

America is totally and unescapably ruled by the OIL cartel. Iraq war was waged for OIL and not to destroy biological war material. Now an Iranian war will be waged sooner or later again for the OIL cartel. American soldiers died for the OIL cartel in Iran more will die for the OIL cartel in Iran soon. Childiish shemes like the one you described is not enough to make any change to the plan of action the IOL cartels and the administration have charted out for America. America belongs lock stock and barrel to the CARTEL.

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#61
In reply to #58

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/28/2008 8:34 PM

American soldiers died for the OIL cartel

Hiding and misrepresentation are not highly regarded; oil cartel? The interests of whom are detailed in this oil cartel? Come on fess up and let's see if you know what you're talking about...the answers will not be subject to interpretation, fact is plain truth.

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#64
In reply to #61

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/29/2008 7:53 AM

I give him the Id10t award.

Keep em honest bwire.

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#65
In reply to #61

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/30/2008 7:08 AM

Bwire,

Fact and Truth are not the same at all. For instance, the media will generally report facts in the news, but at times it is presented in a way as to obfuscate the Truth about a situation. It is their "bread and butter." In fact, it is a key element of all propaganda.

r/

Sam ♣

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#66
In reply to #65

Re: How to lower gas prices

05/10/2008 2:17 AM

Fact and Truth are not the same at all.

Fact: the state of being what is. Truth: a description of the state of being what is; fact.

What have I missed? Repeating an opinion or commonly held belief does not allude to validity of the opinion or commonly held belief.

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#59

Re: How to lower gas prices

04/28/2008 10:43 AM

I try to read the existing thread before responding to it, but it is long and I have not taken the time. So, if my response is redundant I apologize.

We are engineers, here. So we depend on numbers to really understand. I have tried to find sources that appear independant to provide the numbers.

xxxx

First, from Snopes.com: http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp?print=y

A simple, direct explanation of this (old) urban legend and why it is not valid. Basically, the market acts a bit like a water balloon. If it is pushed in at one area it just puffs out in another to make up for it.

xxxx

Statistics: http://www.simmonsco-intl.com/research_upstream.aspx?Title=Daily%20Statistical%20Data:%20Oil%20And%20Gas%20Prices&URLID=research_upstream01.htm

Note that East Coast Refining margin is more than double that a year ago.

xxxx

From Energy Intelligence Weekly:

FEATURE: US Gasoline: Summer of Everyone's Discontent
"Simple economics says that when supply strengthens and demand weakens, prices ought to soften. But that is not the case in the US gasoline market this year. Stocks are a good bit higher than last year and demand growth is turning negative, but gasoline futures prices are nonetheless up some 33% year-on-year -- and likely to move even higher." (OMI April 2008)

xxxx

From Reuters: Oil gains on U.S. gasoline inventory fall

"…U.S. government data showed a bigger-than-expected decline in gasoline stocks ahead of the summer driving season,…"

xxxx

From: The Energy Blog

"…gasoline stocks have dipped below average values. This largely due to the fact that terminals have been reducing their inventories of finished ReFormulated Gasoline (RFG), which contains MTBE, in order to make room for Reformulated Blendstock for Oxygenate Blending (RBOB) with alcohol. " (Nice graphs, for those of us enamored of such.)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So, what do you have here? Supply (reserves on hand in inventory) of gasoline has fallen more "than expected" here in the spring, just prior to peak demand in summer. (In fact, it is only below the range of historical average.) This is an emotional point of concern for the market. It is the result of the technical requirement to change the mixture provided, and will pass. It remains to be seen if prices will then fall, again.

Of course, there are many who applaud the higher prices - including stock holders, ecologists, oil companies, refinery companies, and some government types. It is just the retail customer who suffers. The lesson seems to be, try to be in one the former groups.....

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