Lasik

, Well, from the article it sounds like the threat of complications is very small.

Not everyone's eye condition can be treated with LASIK.

I'm a lucky guy, at 54, still don't need corrective appliances, however, really small print requires reading glasses. But if I ever need LASIK, naw, I'll just get regular glasses. At my age they can only enhance my image as almost too old, all-knowing, sage-like, crusty old fart, but still able to shag.

I have been considering laser surgery for the past few years but have held off mainly due to the expense.

I've known several people who have undergone laser surgery but haven't heard one complaint. In fact, one friend even said that being finally free of glasses has given him a sense of wellbeing.

I've been wearing glasses since I was 9 years old (46 now). I've used plastic glasses and contact lenses and, presently, high index glasses (much thinner than plastic). For several years now, I've developed "presbyopia", a condition where the eyes focusing ability deteriorates. Although nearsighted, I now have to remove my glasses if I want to see something close up (like an instrument's information plate).

You have just listed my symptoms done to the iota. I have been holding back from the procedure because I'm down right scared of it. If you had the cash, would you undergo LASIK?

If that is too personal or if I'm prying, I appoligize. I just didn't know who to ask and I don't fully trust people who are trying to sell me something to be completely honest with me. Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks Vulcan.

Sincerely

Orpheuse

In my case, I do have the money, and I am not at all interested. But my eyesight is not that bad, and I don't mind glasses... In my case the risks out weigh the reward potential.

In Vulcan's case I can imagine that the risk/reward analysis might go the other way.

In my case, I do have the money, and I am not at all interested. But my eyesight is not that bad, and I don't mind glasses... In my case the risks out weigh the reward potential.

Perhaps the same justifications that many eye care professions use when deciding whether or not to have LASIK.

Hey, Skeeter,

That was really nice of you, man. If I understand lasik, it will reset my vision to a fixed 20/20. I know there is a newer procedure but I can't, for the life of me, remember the name of it.

The problem is that I reach a half century this summer and the glasses keep multiplying. I have 3 different pair of bifocals. One pair is for real up-close work, soldering PCB's etc.

Then I have a pair to let me see the dashboard and the road and a sort of all-around set for everything from reading to P.C. work.

Now, I've thought of mounteing each sucessive layer, from closest to furthest on one set of frames, but, while I make my living geeking I don't want to look like a jerk, so I deal with it. I just want to see better.

Do we want to talk about hearing . . . eh? . . . what was that you said?

Orpheuse

Is "NOTHING",(noun), sacred?

Now Skeeter, that was a useful post. If you had established your credentials up front I might have taken you a bit more seriously.

just be happy and live with what you have

I've lived with it for too long. I already posted my whys in my last post (before this one). I'm actually saving up for it.

you could opt to have LASIK on just one eye, leaving the other eye myopic

Yes, I've heard of that technique. I would still probably need some surgery on one eye just to reduce the degree of difference. If not, I would probably have the same thing as when I lost one of my contact lenses several years ago. I still functioned but the partly-blurred/partly-clear vision was very uncomfortable.

If I had the cash now, I'd go and have it done tomorrow. Okay, maybe in two or three days since I have to travel to Manila to get it done.

I've have three co-workers who underwent the procedure (all expats though, they had the money) and they all say that it works and they had no complaints. I've recently met with three former classmates who all had their eyes done who say the same thing.

Back when my glasses were plastic (misnomer there), the thinnest part of my glasses were about 4 millimeters thick (I don't have them anymore so I have to make an estimate). But that was years ago. My eyes were about 750 grade then.

My eyes are 900 grade now. I think that's 20:900 to most of you. I don't know the proper term to use. Over here, we just say that our glasses are 200 grade, 400 grade or similar.

My present eye doc actually recommended laser surgery though she doesn't perform the surgery herself (she doesn't wear glasses by the way). With my condition, however, I might still need reading glasses even with the surgery. That's fine with me.

• It means I can go swimming without squinting to see if that was my wife I'm swimming towards or some other woman (worst, some big bloke's wife).
• It means that I can walk in the rain without trying to protect my glasses.
• It means that I won't have to grope around when I step out of the cold, airconditioned grocery and into the hot, humid air outside.
• It means that I can play basketball or go jogging without worrying that my glasses might fall off.
• It means that I can perspire without having to wipe my glasses whenever sweat falls onto them.
• etc, etc, etc.

I got my nearsightedness surgically corrected using Radial Keratotomy by scalpel a decade before Lasik came out. It wasn't perfect, but very fortunately one eye turned out very good. It was the best big money I ever spent and worth every penny to get rid of the hassle and almost constant discomfort of having to wear coke-bottom bottle glasses. I would probably do it again for even moderate nearsightedness.

Cute!

Over many years I had good reason following the status of eye corrections. If you set aside modern glasses and contacts, this is tops. Obviously, as the sage said: It is a minor intervention, when they do it to somebody else. But there is no such thing, when they try to touch me!

Well, there is a major problem with the laser surgery on the eye. The insurance companies generally decline to pay for this particular one, just like they generally decline to pay for cosmetic surgery. You have to pay it yourself. And guess what? Over the years quality went up, recovery time went down, and price fell to 1/2 or 1/3. I would ascribe it to the invisible hand of the free market. Now, we cannot have that, can we now?

A generation or two ago all insurances were the one size fits all Steam and Steel industrial model kind. Now, your home, car, business.... insurance are all tailored to YOU. The only one dinosaur remaining is health, and the old men watching over their fiefdoms jealous of any who seems to be escaping their grip. But, the others collapsed before, this will too.

----------------------------------

Follow the money.

It was on the news here also. Study was to look at the 5% of the people that have had post LASIK problem. As in any treatment complications can arise. Since it is LASIK is relatively new. Some of the complication may have never been face before. Treatment slow to develop my have caused permanent damage unfortunately to some patients. We have a lady here that had it done she is very happy with it.

Eye doctors most likely see more eye damage due to the wearing of contacts then any other reason. So thats why we don't see them wearing them. Eye doctors in not having the LASIK treatment are in conspiracy to have it fail. If all their patients have it done. That patient base will disappear. They won't be come back to get their sight checked once a year to get themselves new glasses.

Our may be the eye doctors like myself are waiting until they get all the bugs out and the price comes down.

That is my point. The LASIK doctor they interviewed was wearing glasses, and not very thick ones at that. Obviously I don't know for sure, but it would seem that he might be a candidate for LASIK, but here is the man who really knows the most about the procedure and he is not willing to risk it? Hmmm then maybe I won't either.

I was talking to my optomitrist and in a remarkable candid moment she said that most eye care professionals will not use contacts or LASIK because they know the risks....

Me again, Steve S,

>>>>I was talking to my optomitrist and in a remarkable candid moment she said that most eye care professionals will not use contacts or LASIK because they know the risks....<<<<

I'm still amazed at the number of persons who will generalize about something when they don't have all of the information to support their position. How on Earth could your optometrist comment on what most of the eye care professionals do or not do? I'll bet $0.25 that she has not polled all. If your optometrist is this far out in left field, perhaps you should consider finding another.

Greetings, ozzb,

Pardon me, but I'm having a hard time understanding your statements...

>>>>Eye doctors most likely see more eye damage due to the wearing of contacts then any other reason. So thats why we don't see them wearing them. Eye doctors in not having the LASIK treatment are in conspiracy to have it fail. If all their patients have it done. That patient base will disappear. They won't be come back to get their sight checked once a year to get themselves new glasses.<<<<

What type of eye damage are you referring to?

So, you've seen all the eye doctors, but never one wearing contacts? That's funny, 'cause I've seen lots of eye doctors wearing contacts. Perhaps, you should attend a meeting of eye doctors sometime, and ask for a show of hands of everyone wearing contacts.

Just how does that conspiracy thing work?

Presentation as the eye doctor does not wear or has not had Lasik surgery then something must be wrong with it. If ether or were the answer then all the eye doctors would have had it done.

As you have said that you have seen eye doctors wearing contacts. I ask have you seen any wearing glasses. If contacts were the safest means to correct ones sight then why are we prescribed glasses.

I'm no eye doctor but I've been prescribed glasses for a long time. The doctors also told me that I could wear contacts. I tried contacts and they irritated my eyes too much so I had to quit wearing them.

What I have learned is that everyone's eyes are constantly changing and their prescription along with it. The doctor that did my surgery said that as we age our eyes lose flexibility and, as a result, most people become more nearsighted.

As far as not all eye doctors not getting lasik done on themselves, they may not be candidates for the surgery. Not only is age a factor but the thickness of the cornea is as well. There is also a general 1% chance that something will go wrong either during or after the surgery.

What I'm trying to say is that Lasik surgery isn't right for everyone (doctors included). Even though I had it done, I still have to get regular eye examinations which means that eye doctors still have my business (no conspiracy that I see). Personally, I don't think these doctors are out to blind America but I've been wrong before.

I've had glasses since I was 8 I am now 53 so I know about the change also. What I was saying is that anytime that you place a foreign object in your eye that there can be complications. A contact is a foreign object we were not born with them in our eyes. Contacts collect and hold pollen, dust, and debris that the eye would naturally wash away. Specially around the edges of the contact where the eye lids can not wipe in the corners. The taking them in and out can cause damage people get rushed don't take the care they should. There can be problems with the cleaning solutions. These are a few of the thing people should be aware of when they decide to try contacts. A lot people don't address these because the use is for aesthetic reasons.

"There is also a general 1% chance that something will go wrong either during or after the surgery."

Like I said before its relatively new they have not got all the bugs out yet.

Greetings, Steve S.,

I suspect you have presented the following statements in your attempt to play devil's advocate... so, please allow me to apply a bit of logic in reply.

>>>>Have you ever noticed that eye doctors always seem to wear glasses? Not contacts, no LASIK, glasses. What does that tell you..<<<<

With all due respect, it tells me that you love to generalize. I doubt very much that you have witnessed ALL eye doctors wearing glasses, with not one wearing contacts, and not one having had a LASIK procedure. Another thing it tells me is that you, apparently, don't get around much.

>>>>(BTW the LASIK surgeon that they interviewed in the news story was wearing glasses. My ophthalmologist wears glasses, my optometrist wears glasses.)<<<<

Glasses are worn by many persons, including some of those professionals you listed above, who would not necessarily benefit by having LASIK. Many folks have minor refractive errors that are easily compensated by glasses. It would be silly for these persons to have LASIK, just to be able say they had it.

Greetings Skeeter, The basis of science is observation. I have made it a point to observe the eye professionals I have come in contact with, and I have yet to find one that has had Lasik. Granted that my experience may not represent a statistically significant sample, but then again maybe it does. Part of the reason I posted this was to widen my statistical sample by getting experience from those that post here. Suresh noted that his daughters doctor wore glasses. How bout you Skeeter? Do you personally know eye care professionals that have had Lasik. Oh and by the way I get around plenty....

I had Lasik done to my eyes four years ago after having glasses since I was four (28 years of hell). No problems, from -500 vision to 20/15 in less then an hour. I've had no complications. The eye doctor who did the surgery had his done both his partner and he in-turn did his partners eyes. Recently we switch doctors come to find out he had his done two years ago by my old doctor and several members of his staff are set to get their eyes done. My last eye exam still 20/15 I have no problems reading. I get up in the morning and no have to search for my glasses it's great now I can wear fashion sunglasses, I can go swimming without my wife dragging me around to the pool, etc.

I am from India, my daughter was operated by Lasik 10 years ago as she did not like to wear glasses. She is not having any problem with her sight even without glasses. Cost of operation was around $1000/- for both eyes. My wife had been operated for catract by Lasik 6 months back and she has removed her glasses for far sight and for reading. Cost of operation was $1500/- for both eyes. She is not having any problem till now. Her operation was fully covered by insurance company including medication and consulting charges. In both case Docs were wearing glasses but I forgot to ask them why they did not get themselves operated.

Hi Skeeter. You protest too much, and without personal basis. You do not like it? Then by all means do not do it.

I did not do it either, but for an entirely different reason. I learned about the risks (as in anything), did not like it and opted to learn biochemistry, to support myself including my eyesight. Result: better in every way, including much weaker precription glasses ever since. You say, it is anecdotal? I don't give a fart. I know, what I have.

You say, but it diminishes the livelihood of eye doctors? Yes, quite possibly some of them need to be reeducated into other fields. Just like most of the modern workforce had to reinvent themselves in the last decades, sometimes more than once.

Is that pleasant, even comfortable? NO, not at all, for none of us. But that is, what our modern lifestyle seem to bring along for us, with no end in sight (no pun intended).

Greetings, leveles,

I don't know why, but you attribute to me statements that I have not made. Perhaps a lack of critical thinking skills on your part, or you don't have a full grasp of the language?

Regards,

ok off topic and blah blah blah . . .

I would suggest many professionals do not like other professionals to do what they do as a living, to them. It would kind of be like me trusting my electronic gizmo to another engineer to repair when I know the errors they make. thus glasses - Perhaps if frogs had wings. . .

The point is simple - one day we could learn not to watch the fax machine, fax. Its technophobia in its purest definition.

By the way crossing the road has a chance of dangerous side affects. . .

ok that aside now how about we discuss why big brother has just now decided that it is important to look at as opposed to vetting it out before they cut it loose on the unsuspecting masses. Wait maybe they did.

lasik is a maturing technology and just as any procedure you do to yourself it carries risk. Be comfortable with YOUR professional and satisfy your information needs and then funny enough you decide if it will benefit you. Count the costs - Just as you do when you cross the road. As technology goes its pretty safe stuff.

Yes, yes, yes, it has to be.

My shortness of attention span, my not being a native english speaker, my other shortness of attention span learning biochemistry, AFTER having a professional life. Yeah, absolutely, it is my stupidity to your professional demeanor. Oh, yeah.

In short, up yours, buddy. Excuse my imperfect(?) english. I am not in the employ in your paymasters. So, maybe I am not perfect, but I speak my own mind.

>>>>So, maybe I am not perfect, but I speak my own mind.<<<<

I think you have identified the problem. Perhaps you should gather your thoughts before you open your mouth (or click your mouse).

Love my LASIK, Don't like to wear glasses to read etc. but 20:250 to 20:12 was worth it.

Cost me $3,300. about 12 years ago and the only problem is my arms are not long enough to read fine print.

My focal point is about 3 inches past the tips of my fingers vs. 3 inches past my nose.

My vision is about 20:20 now, I'll be 47 in a few months.

Night driving is a little worse but I also don't have glasses causing odd reflections or fogging at bad times.

Can't wear contacts from wearing them to long and now my eyes rebel with irritation. Even tried corrective hard contacts.

I do still have dents in the side of my nose from the weight of the glasses.

I would rate my "opinion" at 97% pro 3% negative after 12 years.

By the time all the data is in something "new and improved" will come along. My vision was bad enough to take the risk.

One point of difference is mine was done in a operations theater and put up on a big screen TV. My better half said my eyes locked onto the red target dot and never moved while everyone else's eyes moved all over. I attributed this to years of shooting and martial arts body control. Have no idea if it was relevant to my outcome.

Brad

There is still always 1 % risk of failure in such lasik operations. I'm not trusting this method from the beginning. I have never taken this high risk and never have operation. I have -7.00 myopic and I wear eye glasses and contact lenses. Risk should be lowered to a less value by improvements. I wish everybody have a good sight.

Regards

Dear Steve,

I just can't see it (sorry). A cadre of optomitrists and eye care professionals, conspirying and sneaking about trying to preserve their market share? It's . . .just . . . so Monty Python.

Nothing personal, Steve, your question has merit. Asking engineers to answer it is illogical. This was brought up by the FDA, a highly irrational service of the government. I think you'd have more success polling the FDA and you could probably avoid the semantical problem that Skeeter rightly brings up.

Orpheuse

Well, I see your point, but I did post this in the Bio Mech and Bio Med forum in the hopes of getting some input from someone in the field.

I have never suggested any kind of conspiracy, and I am not sure why people posting here keep saying that.

What I have perhaps too subtly suggested is that eye care professionals are not confident enough in the procedure to risk their own eye sight. That has nothing to do with conspiracy.

Steve, I had understood Americans as great risk takers. Now this technology has already proven even throughout the world I dont know why are you so scared,well if you are just thinking of getting rid glasses then there is no need to take such operation. But in case of catract, and for persons wearing thick glasses it is realy worthwhile but expensive.

Oh yes Suresh, we certainly are. However only if the reward is sufficient. In my personal case the reward of LASIK is not sufficient.

I had LASIK done in 2000 at age 42. I was 6 diopeters out in both eyes prior to the surgury. I was 20/15 after things got settled in. But it only lasted 4 years. By 2004 I was 20/50 - barely able to drive w/o glasses. The response was that "another correction could be done." I had two major questions: how long would the procedure last this time and how much of this could my cornea stand? The answer was that it would cost a non-refundable $100 to ask a doctor.

The doctor who did the original surgery was no longer performing LASIK (go figure). I found I was wearing safety glasses a lot of the time anyway. I also have to wear bifocals to read no matter what. As the perscription for a 20/50 condition is nowhere near as heavy a lens as I was used to and since I needed the reading glasses anyway I decided to stick with what I have.

Mind you I loved being able to wear my helmets w/o glasses and I hate it when sweat follows the temples onto the lenses when I'm working in hot weather. But I'd like to be able to see when I'm 80. There is no data saying that I will be able to. Being a lab animal once is enough for me!

My bottom line? If you are really in a situation where the glasses are a bloody nusance and you are into sports which compound the problem then LASIK will help the situation. But don't expect it to be a permenent, 100% fix. The procedure is being oversold. Kinda like the visual version of viagra. Still, every now and then, I think about it...

It is just human nature making an effort not to let the applecart to be upset. It is also the nature of institutions to rein in the one seeming to slip thru the fingers. Particularly one that sets a bad example by increasing quality and dropping price to 1/2 - 1/3. A few more of such bad examples, and people may start questioning the "normal" price structures. Now, we cannot have that, can we???

You see, nothing sinister. Just self interest, expressed. IMHO

I had Lasik surgery about 4 months ago and the dentist that did my surgery had his sister perform Lasik on his eyes 2 years prior. Now I see colors with one eye and shapes with the other.

Seriously though, the doctor that did my surgery had had his eyes done as well. He told me before and after the surgery that the most common problem after the surgery is dry eyes. My eyes have been dryer than they used to be but he told me that it would take about 6 months before this problem went away and until then I could use eye drops to fix the problem. The doctor also told me that as I get older my eyes will lose flexibility and I may eventually need glasses again (or another surgery).

I had been wearing glasses since I was 4 (now I'm 24). I tried contacts but they irritated my eyes too much. I saw the quality of life from people that did not wear glasses and realized that I wanted the same thing. In my opinion, the short term dry eyes and the possibility of needing another surgery 20 years from now is worth the cost of the surgery.

One thing I should note though is that when I would take off my glasses, I couldn't see anything clearly that was more than 6 inches away. If your vision is better than that you may not want surgery.

I, too, have been wearing glasses since grade school. I can still remember the first day at the eye doctors, putting this huge thing on my head, turning the lights off and asking me which is better????? I was five????? I didn't know the alphabet yet????

Ever since that time, I was burdened with this crutch. I always had to have them on. I swam on the high school swim team and learned to look for the black fuzzy line in the bottom of the pool to keep me in my lane. I sweated constantly and had to clean my glasses every time I played golf. I had to have numerous "spares" for when I played football and hockey. I couldn't enjoy snorkeling without getting very close to what everybody else was looking at. I couldn't read the alarm clock without first putting on my glasses. And worse, they were always in the way of "making out". I had enough problems as a teenager without having that last one.

I had lasik done three months ago and my quality of personal life is better. I don't have the problem of halo's at night. I don't have the problems of not seeing when I play catch with my son. I just returned from a cruise and enjoyed every bit of water activity with out having to run back and get my "eyes".

For me, worth every penny. And, by the way, my doctor had it done, all the girls in the office had it done. His mother had it done. His wife had it done. The office is in South Bend, IN. Very notable local doctor, not just doing lasik, but works on all eye problems and does do glasses if that is what is needed. He does not promote lasik as his sole business as some in the area are.

I have been wearing glasses for a number of years now and my wife has suggested in the past that I get lasic. I just can't do it though, I have a serious problem with contact lenses, or scalpels, or laser beams, or anything else getting near my eye balls! To me, any risk to lose or impair my sight is just too great of a risk. I am not so vain that I would consider this in order to stop wearing glasses. Steve, I have also noticed that virtually all of the optometrists and opthamologists I have visited in my life have also worn glasses... Hmm..maybe they share my view point?? Yep, must be!

I had lasik on both eyes in 2002, and still have 20/20 vision. Just recently, I started wearing reading glasses / computer glasses for presbyopia (one more thing due to age) and the return of a slight astigmatism, but I would say the procedure went very well and I am satisfied with the outcome. I could not see anything but a blur only a few inches away and wore glasses since 4th grade (40+ years), so I was willing to risk the procedure and am happy with the results. My procedure only cost 1300 dollars. At a cost of up to 500 for a pair of glasses that would fill my prescription before lasik, I think that is a bargain. As far as the risks - the documentation that I read before the procedure was detailed and clear. Several people I know were told they were not good candidates for the procedure, making me confident in the screening of candidates before lasik. If your squeamish, don't do it. But if it will work for you, go for it.

There was a comment made about the risk of wearing contact lenses - that is something I haven't heard enough about. As a former contact lens wearer, there is a definite risk of infection and irritation from wearing contacts. Some have had permanent damage and chronic infection caused by contact lenses.

I used to wear contacts too but stopped due to the expenses.

I remember when I first wore them. I revelled in the freedom. Being free from glasses felt so good that the daily rituals of cleaning and storing didn't bother me too much. Once, I fell asleep with them on and thought a miracle had happened when I woke up in the morning!

There was one time when I went to the pool and immediately leaped into the water. In midair I suddenly remembered I was still wearing them and closed my eyes just in time.

Bad experiences include:

• dust getting into them (the pain is so much more than just getting dust in your eye without them)
• one lens fell out and I had to function the whole day with half-clear and half-blurred vision (learned to bring my glasses along the next time)
• when my regular storing solution went out of stock, I bought a different brand. Big mistake! Several hours later, my vision began to become cloudy and my eyes stung. The cloudiness stayed even after removing the lenses. Thought I had damaged my eyes for sure. Fortunately, the cloudiness and the stinging disappeared overnight.
• when the company I worked for closed down and I didn't have enough to buy the cleaning and storing solutions. Problem compounded since my glasses then were not matched to my vision and I had to suffer for a month with blurred vision.
• had a maid once who wondered what the plastic, water-filled things were and threw out the contents. She almost fainted when I told her that it was more expensive than her salary.

Today, I can afford contacts again but stayed away from them this time. They're too expensive to maintain and the experience with the other brand of solution was a little too traumatic.

My wife and I had Lasik done six months ago. It is the new no-blade/all-laser system. I believe it is called Intralase.

This is the best money we ever spent. This gives us a fantastic feeling of freedom, just like quitting smoking for those of us who can relate.

Get up in the middle of the night without fumbling for your glasses, no more having to pass on the contacts today because your eyes are red, etc.

Our surgeon does not wear glasses or contacts. One thing is that he had to trust ANOTHER surgeon for that. There lies maybe the reluctance of many eye doctors.

http://www.goodeyes.com/ Here is the group that did my eyes. (took a while to find when using bad spelling)

I don't claim to be a "normal" recipient do to statements by my wife, but they did a great job so far at 10 years.

Next when the tech is mature I'll have cornea replacements to replace my age hardening lenses.

Brad