As Guest said, it depends on the dust/air flow, if you clean the dust out of the PC then 80deg shouldn't be a problem.

If a PC gets overheated - it won't slow down or do anything observable - it will just turn itself off. When it's cooled down enough, it should reboot fine.

A customer recently called me out to a PC which 'died' after an hour or so of running, but restarted fine first thing in the morning, or after lunch. The CPU fan had packed in - the heatsink was too hot to touch. New fan fixed it.

I'm not talking about the long-term effects here, just what the operator would notice.

First of all I threw 80 degrees out as a reference point. 72 degrees is too hot for most of them. I am the HVAC tech and really do not care whether or not their computers are working I just want some solid numbers to rebute their false claims!

...can work, but not alway work optimally. But that's not so much the point since it really does not help Original Questioner's problem even if he is convinced that saying so will; his being a people problem, not a technical problem.

Your point about temps and worker (or, better said, brain) productivity is a good one. At its essence is the fact of diminished oxygen capacity of warm air (fluid) as opposed to cold air. (Hence the terms doldrums, or brain foolishness in a certain constantly hot and stagnant ocean region.) You probably see the same kind of thing--brain foolishness due to oxygen deprivation at altitude, near your location fairly close to camping and ski areas in the Sierra Nevada.

The simplest approach then is to get as much oxygen to the workers in the cheapest practical way. This could include AC, but could include modification of humidity (say by evaporation to restore moisture removed by AC) and/or circulating/replenishing air...even live plants in the environment.

"Rebut" them to whom? To them? To their supervisor?

As HVAC tech, while it might be your position to listen to their complaints, it would not be your job to rebutrefute their complaints...for one, because such complaints are not, by their very nature, refutable.

If you are fielding complaints conveyed in their behalf by their supervisor then factual data will be your best means of (not refuting but) assisting that supervisor—or, if circumstances dictate, the workers. By factual results is not meant opinions gathered at a Website forum—especially one such as CR4 which is not tailored primarily towards those of supervisory/managerial expertise. By factual results is meant...(for example) a recording of periodic temperatures taken (automatically or manually) throughout the workday—or the high and low temps on each workday... this, in conjunction with your maintenance services, to show that the HVAC (and your repairs) are having (not a perfect or ideal result but) a practical, positive effect. At that point, you must leave it to the supervisor, alone, to handle the workers complaints; it would be a mistake to involve yourself by making (or anywhere giving voice to) any suggestion as to the workers' credibility, either directly, or implicitly in the form of a self-styled "rebuttal" meant to "explain" the workers' "true" motivation. By doing that (the latter) you will have essentially made yourself a part of the problem--something that is not likely to work other than to your own disadvantage—...it is also a "predisposition" which could prove ruinous to any supervisor or manager!

There is another way to assist the supervisor (&or workers), but you must do it...delicately and tactfully. It is almost always the case that such "group" complaints do not originate spontaneously from the group. The start with one or a few and then "metastasize." For such complaints to gain traction there is invariable one to a few clever instigators who, first, convince or reinforce others that they are uncomfortable, and (or) second, convince others (or a boss) that something dire (like mass computer failures) might happen if the (now) intolerable situation (the comfort firstly of computers and secondly of workers) is not corrected. So what you might do is to relate a little anecdote to the supervisor. to the effect of how you've seen just this kind of thing so often; and how so often it usually not everyone but only one or two of the workers who are suffering most ostentatiously, and (perhaps?) making the problem seem bigger than it is; and how you noticed, that while these instigators can often be difficult to please, they can be nullified if others are convinced that things are being done to address their concerns. An able supervisor will "get it" and realize what to do next. If it is the case, instead, that your service efforts must involve direct interaction with the workers, your response to them should be, again, not to rebut them but, to reassure them that you take their complaints (about their comfort) seriously and that you are taking steps to fix the problem. After you then do something you must ask if things are now better for them. Once you begin to gain agreement (among a small but growing number) that your efforts have been helpful--you are gaining trust and confidence at the same time--it becomes easier for them to be content, and harder for them to complain further, or to be swayed by instigators.

Another helpful hint you can suggest to the boss (remember you're helping fight his own rightful battles instead of letting his battles be made your battles) is to explain the limitations of HVAC (nothing technical...only that there are extremes beyond which HVAC works less effectively/efficiently) and couple this with the suggestion to supplement with fans to circulate air and cool the employees...fans you will be happy to procure and install.

As to monitoring of temperature (both as evidence and as an objective basis for your HVAC maintenance efforts)— While continuous recording of periodic ambient temps is probably not cost effective or otherwise feasible for most workplace situations, the recording of daily high and low temps can be done easily and inexpensively with a U-column, maximum-minimum thermometer. In addition to your own, or the supervisor's, monitoring, such a tool will help objectively convince employees (and formerly disgruntled computers) that their own comfort zones are within the range of temperatures in the work area.

If thier computer don;t work you may be out of a job so you should care.

Call dell and ask them about their laptop and the amount of heat they can stand.

if any of your users are mobile, you might want to consider the Panasonic series "Toughbook" they offer versions of "ruggedized" and "semi-ruggedized" easily withstanding outdoor temps in excess of 110F. If your users PC's are rebooting or acting strangely consider AV scan or check that your local circuit can withstand all the electronics plugged in (tripp lite and apc both have metered PDU - if you don't want to manually add all the wattage needed). I'm wondering if when it get's warmer, fans and such are added to local circuit and thus overwhelms it causing PC's to reboot/act strangely...

with people at our facility using the excuse that it is too hot for their computers to work .

That's complete bollocks.

The PC should be a lot less heat sensitive that a human ver3.1

I'd have thought anything upto about 30 deg C should be ok for a PC....that's just a figure I've plucked out of thin air...

Del

Computers come with manuals. The manuals contain the "Technical Specifications". The technical specifications will tell you what the temperature ratings are for those computers.

Just a suggestion.

One proviso: never run a computer (or most anything else) at its "ratings." Ratings means, this is the temperature at or above which it is most likely to fail. The rating of electronic assemblies is essentially the combination of the ratings of all its components.

A good general rule of thumb would be to operate either at which the equipment is "characterized" for is that is available. Lacking that information, then leaving as close as is possible to a 50% margin from rated maximum (operating temperature) is the next best choice. This would be the reason which your computer people are asking for better cooling: computer offices in businesses are typically cooled to achieve between 50 and 70 degrees for best performance and best failure rates. While you might want to go with the higher temp as the economical, 80 degrees is much higher that you're likely to see in most computer offices. So your employees are not asking for better cooling for their own comfort. In fact if it was just personal comfort, most people working in a computer office would ask the temperature to be raised because 70 degrees can feel a bit chilly sometimes.

We have a problem with people at our facility using the excuse that it is too hot for their computers to work in order to get their A/C turned down.

65+°F ambient can cause computer overheating depending on workload /operating system vs. software and application. Cost effectiveness and productivity ratios would indicate you should cool work environment to about 72°F or no less than 55°F causing a dry condition to the air and reducing the dust carrying potential.

Overall, yes chill.

I have 2 core/XP rendering media in ambient 62°F, inner case temperature about 85F°, it will self shutdown at 90°F case temperature.

Hey Lockedup, If your company is making your employees work in an indoor environment and it's 80⁰ F., then they need to find another job. Because in my opinion your company is too CHEAP to pay them what they are worth!! And if it's 80⁰ C., then they already dead and the company hasn't noticed!! Sorry, you weren't specific about the temp. scale, and I have worked for cheap a**holes, who would complain if you used more than one pencil a week!!

See Ya, Blue

Id love to know?

how many people in what type of space?

I could see telling boo hoo! to a gymnasium facility with 3 PCs... but whom again?

What's the temp in your section?... you might want to consider closley matching it.?.

have you done any sort of cost analysis to figure out the pennies per hour per worker it would cost to get your workers to complain that it's too cold for them to work?

It might be your best investment... wait until they are dressed for a hot and humid day in the office first.. Preferably on a Monday after a holiday..

That might be your only option at this point you penny pinching sunofugun!

____________________

...cool question though! thanks!

What he might be trying to say is, if ambient room temperature is 80 degrees, then personnel body heat and (especially) heat dissipated as a necessary condition of running the computers is adding even more to that temperature. If you are unavoidably limited in how much AC cooling you can provide, then you might want to consider providing plumbing for circulating water cooling to the computers (or even ducted air cooling) to draw computer dissipated heat out of the room. Just like AC, that will be an expensive alternative...the question would be just how long it would take for the savings in AC to repay the investment in modifying the computer room and computers.

You could say 80° is unreasonable but again realizing much of the world does not think as you do... Eighty degrees is moderate when the outside temperature is about 110°.

I worked in an average temperature of 115° for several years, my work bench and machinery in the immediate area was too hot touch for more than 10 seconds; that means the bench and machinery were above 200°.

Sometimes you've got to work with what you've got!

You are receiving lots of valid advice. One thing I have learned about my lap-top is that the power required for cooling is greater in warm climates. The designers of the computer walk a tightroap between cooling power and battery life. Batteries last longer on a charge if the computer runs hotter. If the computer is always plugged into a power source, you can afford to run the CPU cooler. Many computer companies offer cooling regime options so you can tune for battery life or CPU temperature.

Come on guys, every body is shooting the messenger. I am wondering if this is a manufacturing type facility, and the computers are in this type of environment.If so then the PC can be cooled on its own with some external cooling. Not extra fans either , that just moves more hot air around. Maybe a nice peltier cooler would be a quick fix. PCextreme.com has a 245W cooler for $45. Some are mounted to the processor and some case mounted. As far as the true human environment goes, we/ I can adapt to many temperatures, I am sure theses same complainers have no trouble cutting grass, washing the car or lounging at the beach in 80 deg. temps. Lets also install with the added cooling a temp readout from inside the PC. If it says it's a nice 68deg in side the PC case then you have all the reasons to hand out pacifiers and blankies.

Maybe I should explain. The temp is held at a range somewhere between 70-72 degrees F. With the change in the seasons everyone is quick to start screaming about the temp being to hot. I have found it rather amazing how office people tend to complain no matter what the temp is. 72 in the winter is too cold and 72 in the summer is too hot, especially when I am standing on top of a 120 degree F roof trying to keep them comforatable. The area in question was a vocational school area at our correctional facility. The complaints come strictly from a comfort stand point and only use this as an excuse. My wish was to gain some concrete evidence that their issues were not with the computers shutting down. It sounds to me like lack of preventative maintenance on IT's part is the main culprit if it is computers shutting down.

I do agree with that. I would just for the heck of it place a data logger in the room and let in run for a few days and see if they are any temp fluctuations thru out the time span.Then just tell the people that there is nothing wrong and show them the data.If the PC's do give trouble which I am sure the IT dept can track with how many times someone has to log in. With a little detective work and some note taking, this can resolved, and prove the stable environment that YOU have created for them, and IT needs to address some reliability issues with their system.I know the feeling, when things go wrong, it is a wonder that more people don't lose an eye from all the finger pointing. Have some data and have confidence that you are correct.

Okay, things are much clearer.

I used to have a Sinclair ZX2000 (ages ago) and after using it for several minutes, the characters on the screen would start changing by themselves. Running programs went their merry way but the changing characters made reading impossible. Putting a fan on the thing eliminated that problem. Ambient temperatures there was about 25°C (77°F).

Electronics are usually rated up to 80°C (176°F) but, as stated before, that's when funny things start to happen. 'Thing is, it may be comfortable for the computer operator while the computer is beginning to cook due to lack of ventilation.

Next, feeling cold or hot depends on temperature and humidity, not temperature alone. My wall thermometer at the office doesn't change but the feeling of coldness or hotness varies with the weather.

Working comfort is important for worker wellbeing. They may be using their computers as an excuse but you have to be able to read their minds, in a way. I usually find that people use other objects to serve as an excuse if management doesn't listen to them.

Thus far, I haven't been able to tell if you've verified that the computers are actually shutting down. I would verify that first and then act accordingly. If it's not true then the guys are actually complaining about their comfort. If it's true then someone should do something about fixing them (the computers, I mean ).

Thank you for the clarification. There is a reason that the prisoners are there. I suggest that you let them complain. Maybe the next time they will reconsider their actions.

Dragon

The area in question was a vocational school area at our correctional facility.

This explains a wee bit. 70-72 degrees makes for a fine operating environment. If it is the "guests" who are complaining, I would ignore them. These guys would bitch at you because the moon is white rather than pink, just to get to you. I would set up a recorder of some sort to monitor the temperature in the area just to have documentation showing that temp stays within specs.

Bill

LockedUp.\,

Appreciate your explanation.

I doubt you have worry of the nature of temperate vision occurring at your site. Please acknowledge that within the framework of your explanation resides a reality of the circumstance.

Thank you for bringing to this forum this ambiguous question (: to wit 72° is an adequate ambient temperature for you enterprise.

logix101,

You're on the track, water cooling or and actual chiller to provide cool dry air would be conducive..

The problem is not with the computers but with the human temperature regulation.

The reason why 72F is too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer is thermal radiation.

In the winter everything is cold including the building walls that are most likely badly insulated. The people loose heat by radiation because they are one of the warmest element in the environment. They feel cold. The air exchanger and various air leaks can also decrease the ambient temperature. The floor might be at 65F and the ceiling at 80F.

In the summer, the walls are hot and warm up the people with infrared radistions. Radiant heating is a very efficient way to keep people warm. It is often used in large shops or outside to keep people warm in the winter without heating the air.

Large windows often let the radiation heat flow through un-impeded. You might want to consider adding some films that will cut thermal radiations. Your staff will be more comfortable in the winter and the summer with very little loss of daylight.

Before reaching your final conclusion and issuing any opinions tha