Newton's Laws of Motion and Cold Fusion

No.

Newtons Laws of motion only apply on a Macro scale... At atomic level it's a totally different ball game (little joke there... 'cos balls would follow Newton's Laws...ok it wasn't that funny ....sue me..)

Del

The context for Newton's Laws are for mechanical motion.

They do not apply to atomic fission or fusion. The two processes are quite different from each other and involve conversion of some mass to energy, which is not related to Newton's mechanical Laws of motion.

The process for Cold Fusion is unknown. It was touted as a deuterium-deuterium fusion reaction, but there are no byproducts in the amounts required to account for the reaction (among other issues), so it probably isn't nuclear fusion.

Mainstream science has passed on further study into Cold Fusion, but there are a core of believers that continue to refine the experiments hoping for a breakthrough.

There is a whole thread on this that goes on ad nausium if you have a lot of free time. Wikipedia gives a good summation on the subject, too.

Dear Guest, As I understand it, much of the laws of physics do not apply at the subatomic level. For example the concept of Perpetual Motion is considered impossible at the macro level, but is an absolute necessity at the subatomic level.

Just a thought Dragon

The Cold Fusion announcement was not made in any scientific paper and was not reproducible by respected university and college research staff members.

The question of Newton's laws of motion is not relevant as it does not apply to atomic or nuclear reactions.

Lack of reproducibility - Urban Legend.

Szpak, S., P.A. Mosier-Boss, and F. Gordon. Experimental Evidence for LENR in a Polarized Pd/D Lattice. in NDIA 2006. 2006. Washington, DC.

Coauthors: Mosier-Boss, P. A., Gordon, F.
Category: Experiment particle
Keywords: neutron, co-deposition, voltage, magnetic field

Recent experiments at the U.S. Navy San Diego SPAWAR Systems Center have demonstrated nuclear effects with palladium co-deposition cathodes subjected to magnetic or high voltage fields. CR-39 is used to detect high energy particles. It is placed in close proximity to the cathode because the particles do not travel far. These experiments appear to be highly reproducible.

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(This reflects research from US Navy Space and Naval Warfare Center (SPAWAR) Research sho has repeated the effect - also by Naval Research Labs (NRL) and Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, china Lake. That is just US Navy - with whom I am affiliated. The effect has been reproduced by various universities in US as well as National Labs and Univeristy Labs overseas. Look it up. Its easy.)

One of Many who reproduced the effect early on:

From the University of Utah Research Park, Salt Lake City, Utah: National Cold Fusion Institute.

Storms, E. and C.L. Talcott, Electrolytic tritium production. Fusion Technol., 1990. 17: p. 680.

Coauthors: Talcott, C. L.
Category: Experiment particle
Keywords: electrolysis, Pd, D2O, tritium

Abstract
Fifty-three electrolytic cells of various configurations and electrode compositions were examined for
tritium production. Significant tritium was found in eleven cells at levels between 1.5 and 80 times the
starting concentration after enrichment corrections are made.

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More recent. From the National Science Academy of Japan and published in the Japanese Journal of Applied Physics, http://www.ipap.jp/jjap/index.htm.:

Arata, Y. and Y.C. Zhang, Anomalous 'deuterium-reaction energies' within solid. Proc. Jpn. Acad., Ser. B, 1998. 74 B: p. 155.

Coauthors: Zhang, Y. C.
Category: Experiment heat
Keywords: electrolysis Pd, Pd-black, heat+, D2O, H2

The abstract begins:
Both D₂O-cell and H₂O-cell are constructed with the same Double Structure Cathode (DS-cathode), and connected in series as a "Double-cell" to examine the energy generation under the same electrolytic current. D₂O-cell generates tremendously excess energy during a long. Such as over several thousand hours, but any energy is never generated in H₂O-cell when the chemical energy is subtracted in both cells. . . .

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(Note they claim the Deuterium cell generated "tremendous excess energy" for thousands of hours. Fairly repeated.)

Do you like Stanford University? McKubre is from Stanford.

McKubre, M.C.H. Cold Fusion at SRI (PowerPoint slides). in APS March Meeting. 2007. Denver, CO.

Coauthors:
Category: Experiment other
Keywords: sonofusion

Cold Fusion at SRI
An 18 Year Retrospective
(and brief Prospective)

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I could go because there are thousands of citations from all over the world. Bottom line is that it is a mistake to discount this technology. It is definitely real. If it can be controlled it will change the world.

I gotta go get some breakfast now, but thanks ....

Well, one more thing. It bothers me to see Dr. Fleischmann run down as some kind of quack. Just take a look at this exerpt from one biography:

In 1967, at the remarkably young age of 40, Fleischmann was offered a position as the chair of electrochemistry at the University of Southampton. There, he built up the department and, in doing so, earned it a world-class reputation. He was the recipient of numerous awards during this time. From 1970 to 1972, he held the prestigious post of president of the International Society of Electrochemists. In 1979, he was awarded the medal for electrochemistry and thermodynamics by the Royal Society of London. In 1983, he retired from Southampton. Two years later, in 1985, he was awarded the Palladium Medal by the U.S. Electrochemical Society, and he received the highest honor for an English scientist, Fellowship in the Royal Society.

"I could go because there are thousands of citations from all over the world. Bottom line is that it is a mistake to discount this technology. It is definitely real. If it can be controlled it will change the world."

Ummm...

If numbers of believers is the determining standard how about praying for energy from a cold fusion cell?

I have no doubt there are untold hundreds of millions who would agree that is the way to go.

Anyway, I have this personal Demon, Mxxxxlllppplx, that hangs out over me ready and willing to grant me anything I want. He tells me if you will pray to him just before you eat your breakfast he will alter Newton's laws, and further alter the laws of nuclear physics and so ensure that cold fusion cells, the ones with double-diodium cathodes will produce all manner of free energy. All that as soon as you have finished breakfast.

As a bonus he will ensure that your car will henceforth run on pure water.

j.

OK OK - We could throw Newton overboard. But still no one really answered the question. If splitting the atom creates energy -could the reverse affect happen when trying to fuse them together. And with experiments showing that there is energy present when fusion happens - is it possible that the energy is spent up when the atoms fuse together? Could there be away of extracting the energy just before they use it for them selves? V1sor gave me some great links -thanks for that.

so bottom line - theory (see underlined) - Energy is created in order for fusion to occur. The atom absorbs the energy in order to fuse to another. Is it possible to steel the energy just before fusion, to see how much is present?

I am not entirely certain I understand, but lets try this: A variety of types of atoms, and nuclear components, can be caused to join together. That process is called fusion. Causing the process to occur takes a BIG push on a very small scale. It is no small task. In most combinations the payoff is the possibility of an interesting reaction, but the cost is use of a LOT of energy. It is known that fusion of hydrogen (one proton) into helium (two protons) will be one of those very interesting reactions, because it generates a lot more energy than is input. That is the point of the process commonly referred to as "fusion." In other cases the reverse is true.

I think you are asking if fusion could be used as type of refrigeration. It is an interesting question. I am not aware anyone has tried to pursue it, but I am confident it would be extremely difficult at best.

Am I even close to answering your question?

The question has been answered a half dozen ways.

In fusing hydrogen atoms (The basis of the hydrogen bomb) energy excess to the fusion, energy that comes from the fusion process itself, is liberated.

Very good engineers, who in my opinion have been underfunded, have been trying for a great many years to contain the process so as to utilize that excess energy/heat for any number of purposes.

Ain't no mystery or puzzle in that. Not even an unproven theory.

It is an unsolved engineering problem that ought to be soluble in a manner 'sides blowing people up with it.

As for our friend with atoms forced through a tube, you may design car manufacturing tool components, but if I came to to you and told you I heard of a way to force garbage through a tube and extract there-from a neat self powered stamping press but I forgot where or when, just what would you tell me.

To be explicit your notion of forcing atoms through a tube and extracting energy therefrom, no matter where or when you think you heard it, excessive to what you used to do so, assuming such a thing at all, seems just as absurd as my garbage turned stamping press.

Now you may be a good engineer so you might be interested in buying a classical, historical example of first rate engineering. It is an absolute antique of great value and has been bought and sold many times. I'll let you have it cheap and it is in a prime location.

Would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge?

j.

What I'm trying to say is when they are pushed together and energy is created by the atoms, if not extracted, they use the energy produced in order to fuse to each other. So - while being pushed together, the time when the maximum amount of energy is being produced by the atoms, could the energy be taken from them before the combination of the 2? Wouldn't that be the ideal time to extract the energy? Let them gear up for fusion, but don't let it happen. Steal the energy from them.

Hence a Pre-fusion extraction

The energy released is excess to that of fusion, i.e., becomes available as the result of fusion. It is some of the energy that was used to hold two nuclei together as disparate bodies but becomes excess when the two are forced to become one.

Now let's see what kind of imaginary schemes there are to access that energy before fusion. Perhaps a tri-diodium cathode?

j.

I've heard of an experiment where atoms were forced through a tube in a single line and energy was produced and extracted. Could this be the same concept?

Concepts can be anything you can imagine in your mind depending on what you are smoking. "I've heard" tempts me to put you in that category.

This is an engineering site. You know folks that deal in hard stuff, iron bar and structures, masonry, gases, electricity, I'm sure you get the idea.

Hard stuff in mind is also specific information traceable to specific sources and as well supported by hard material data.

So where did you hear?

j.

Actually the experiment was conducted in Asia. The were to attach the machine to a seven story building and see if they could power it for 24 hours. This was bout 5 or 6 years ago. I don't know how the experiment ended out - due to a busy life style I lost track of it. But I did see a segment in the news when they were preparing the connections to the building. So sorry, but I didn't hear it from a friend - who knew a guy - who was seeing..........

So what did you say you smoked?

j.

What ever Jerksawitz

Sorry but I didn't know that you where the holder of everything knowledgeable. Deepest regrets. I guess that I must of dreamed it or even better made it up. Does that make you feel better?

And even though it's pretty much legal hear, I don't smoke it.

And as for "This is an engineering site. You know folks that deal in hard stuff, iron bar and structures, masonry, gases, electricity, I'm sure you get the idea."

You must pardon me, I wasn't aware of the guild lines of the boys club. I should just put my tail between my legs and go back to my office and finish designing the machinery that is used for the production of automobiles. Sorry if I don't meet up to your standards.

Cadop = Computer Aided Design Operations (which I happen to run the department)

If you read what I wrote, you would notice that I didn't purpose anything. I was following the story for a couple of weeks, and even had a segment on the news about their attempts. Sorry if I can't recall the details, but if experiment was in the lines of what the person who started this thread was thinking, it would give them a direction to follow. That's all I was trying to do, and even hoping maybe someone else heard of such an experiment and could give more details about it (even if it wasn't successful).

But suggesting I must of been smoking something (not only once) just shows how ignorant you truly are. You don't know who I am or what I do. I'm a Mechanical Engineer and my wife is a Chemical Engineer. So we do discuss experiments that are out there, even if they are a stretch in finding a solution. But like everyone we hope that maybe some break through could be made, even if it's understanding something a little bit more through failures. If who ever started this thread really was interested, they could try to find out what happened with the experiment.

But you just blew it off because it was something that you never heard of. What if everyone thought like you - no experiments would get of the drawing board do to scepticism.

And another thing - my wife LOVES it when I wear my loan cloth. You should see the smile on her face.

Thanks Blue

S'up Cadop! Sorry, couldn't resist. Da Nada. I do have one small question: LOAN Cloth? If you meant LOIN CLOTH that conjures up an image that will take care of MY nightmares for the next six months!!

Your partner in impossibility, Blue