Login | Register

Previous in Forum: Preventing and Measuring Burrs   Next in Forum: Material Enquiry for Axle Shaft of URSUS
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







12 comments
Member

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Georgetown, Guyana.
Posts: 9

Metal Filings

05/08/2008 2:59 PM

The company I work for sells pressure washers as part of our product line. However i notice that on inspecting new units, there are metal filings present in carburetors, pump housings and in one example; the crankcase. Is this typical of manufactured items?

__________________
Sese
Send to a friend Digg this Add to del.icio.us
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Van Nuys, CA
Posts: 102
Good Answers: 4
#1

Re: an observation

05/08/2008 4:28 PM

I'm guessing they chose the absolute lowest bid for manufacturing. It's my experience, "you get what you pay for", applies more often than not.

Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 1225
Good Answers: 21
#2

Re: an observation

05/08/2008 4:46 PM

All manufactures try to remove the leaving from their machining operations. Some do a better job then others. In case of most motors most manufactures have a short run in period after which the oil is to be changed. This oil change is to catch and remove debris that was left. As far as the carburetor and pump these can be a collection point for debris left behind by the manufactures of the devices connected to them. Our debris created during assembly. An example would pieces of threads broken of during the attachment of fittings.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 3949
Good Answers: 184
#3

Re: Metal Filings

05/08/2008 10:21 PM

Hello sese_norville

Please advise source country of the Pressure Washers.

That may assist in a more complete answer.

Kind Regards....

__________________
The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time - SparkY
Member

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Georgetown, Guyana.
Posts: 9
#8
In reply to #3

Re: Metal Filings

05/09/2008 1:43 PM

the pressure washer is sourced from Germany, and the manufacturer sources their engine from Japan.

__________________
Sese
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 1867
Good Answers: 9
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Metal Filings

05/09/2008 2:26 PM

A quick attention getter is to reject the items for the reasons stated, contact Manufacturer to arrange return shipment for cause.

__________________
bwise
Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 1867
Good Answers: 9
#4

Re: Metal Filings

05/09/2008 4:09 AM

However i notice that on inspecting new units, there are metal filings present in carburetors, pump housings and in one example; the crankcase. Is this typical of manufactured items?

Define "I notice"

is it by naked eye or touch etc..please advise product line and distribution network????

__________________
bwise
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 206
Good Answers: 3
#5

Re: Metal Filings

05/09/2008 8:05 AM

Please ask your O.E.M suppliers to wash the components like crankcases,carburetors,pump housings etc in industrial washing machines before assembling the pressure washers. Otherwise such garbage can create havoc.

Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 1637
Good Answers: 50
#6

Re: Metal Filings

05/09/2008 9:51 AM

Good morning sese norville.

What is your company's specification for these parts? Is there a caption on the part drawing or purchase order deascribing acceptable limits?

You do not define particle size, nor quantity, I'm presuming sufficent size and quantity to be easily available to the uinaided human eye. As others have pointed out some of the debris in the crankcase may indeed be a result of assembly.

However, there is certainly a small amount of metallic fines adhered to metallic machined parts entrained in the cutting oil/rust preventive unless the specification stated a washing requirement.

Larger "shavings" may in fact be burrs that were left on threads or at cut edges and which are mechanically displaced, separating off the parts during assembly. A fact finding inspection on incoming parts to quantify burrs will help you determine the level of this problem.

As others have mentioned/implied, purchasing agents that focus solely on lowest price can bring all sorts of new challenges for the folks in assembly, inspection, and ultimately the customers to deal with. You can't control purchasing agents, but By Golly You can write a clear specification that forbids what it is that you don't want, or requires a process path that will eliminate the issue...

Of course, then your PA might have to purchase from a company with higher quality and actually pay a FAIR PRICE, and thus have to satisfy themselves with a "normal profit." instead of one based on bait and switch quality ( You can trust our brand, but we reserve the right to buy crap and tell you its all good!).

milo

milo

__________________
"Do right and fear no man, Don't write and fear no woman." Sir Thomas Dewar, inventor of the vacuum flask (Thermos bottle)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Crystal River, FL
Posts: 4664
Good Answers: 14
#7

Re: Metal Filings

05/09/2008 11:57 AM

Apart from the apparent QA/QC issue, you need to remove these, correct? If ferrous, they should be magnetic, and can be removed with a magnetic probe. If non-ferrous, you'll need a bit of creativity. And another trip here for suggestions...

__________________
Oz never did give nothin' to the Tinman that he didn't already have...
Participant

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1
#10

Re: Metal Filings

05/10/2008 3:56 AM

As a machine re-builder I have opened up many cans of worms due to sloppy manufacturing standards. I don't consider it typical

any particles left will degrade bearings, rings ,bushings ,seals ,o-rings, etc. effect longevity or performance. Never buy a car built on a Monday was the joke in the 60's.

to remove debris in new products allot of shops still use air.... bad idea.It moves the junk around to other areas you cant see. don't they have a parts washing line?

there you hang the parts so that the debris always is washed out,works well in most paint lines.

after assembly different story

1. flooding with water or mineral spirits a good choice but the first tool of choice is the vacuum cleaner. combination of these will work but use an air vacuum not electric

2. magnet on ferrous chips

When I worked in manufacturing the rule is to get the right people involved that don't have a reason to cover their shortcomings. Set standards and enforce them. Get the workers to understand how important it is to ther future jobs. Quality control needs to document.

Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 5127
Good Answers: 19
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Metal Filings

05/10/2008 4:41 AM

Good answer.

I have also given this some thought and I do feel that the company concerned should be informed, shown photos taken and asked what their stand is on the problem and how about sending an engineer out for a week to go through the stock and purge all the items displaying metal debris.

Those items with drebis, the serial numbers must be noted and the relevant people on the factory floor must be trained to make sure that this does not happen. As usually, a company must know who built what!!! If they do not know this information, that could mean your company should start looking for a new supplier.....and fast!!

I could go on at length about quality control, but I do feel that it is a subject on its own (most of us here have probably been involved in this area from time to time) and that the company concerned should be themselves concerned and start to take some action to stop this asap.....

If there are any language problems, I could mitigate if required, though with a German company that should not be necessary, unless you need to talk directly to the shop floor for any reason, then you will need someone skilled in Technical German....email me if you need help in any way via CR4 email....

__________________
"A lie or untruth is halfway round the world before the truth has got its trousers on" Sir Winston Churchill
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - bwire

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upper Mid-west USA
Posts: 1867
Good Answers: 9
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Metal Filings

05/11/2008 1:20 AM

I had a batch of shavings inside the workings of a few pallets of gear boxes received. After much push/pull you know the drill the conclusion was the gear boxes had been stored near a metal working machine while the store room was being expanded and that's how the shavings got inside.

__________________
bwise
12 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (1), bwire (3), EnviroMan (1), Milo (1), ozzb (1), pantaz (1), sese_norville (1), Sparkstation (1), suresh sharma (1), unobtainium (1)

Previous in Forum: Preventing and Measuring Burrs   Next in Forum: Material Enquiry for Axle Shaft of URSUS
You might be interested in: Pump Repair Services, Varactor Diodes, Web Application Software