The uncertainty principle

The only thing certain is death and taxes.

But Sparky,

Why are you inviting a "metaphorical" argument when you know quite well the issue as to Heisenberg is that it speaks of reality, not metaphor.

That ought to be, is, more than enough room for argument.

j.

Hello Jack Jersawitz

It speaks of "Reality as perceived".

Each observer's perception of "reality" may be different.

That's the "Uncertainty of perceived Reality".

Kind Regards....

Both the principles you state are correct.

We never know the factual behevior of the thing being observed. While observing, we do affect its behevior, though it is on micro level.

Also, what we observe is never certain. Next time we observe, it will behave little differently, for unknown reasons.

This we do experience in any measurement process also.

Alas, another day has passed, we sleep and awake to another take on a previous assumption. Its the subconscious at work and who is aware of what formulated processess take place there, of which we are unaware. The mind is always working on our behalf. on auto pilot,sorta.

I don't think the uncertainty principle is a principal in the sense of a principal of nature.

Rather it is a mathematical workaround in regard to a problem we as yet do not have the knowledge to solve. It is a conceptual workaround not a natural principle.

The second issue you mention has problems also in that it apparently is used to assert different things.

As far as the idea that viewing something, some process, may change the process, it seems that the claim is that the process is so sensitive that viewing it changes it's parameters.

I don't know if that is true.

But there is another claim that uses the same language. It is the statement that certain sub-atomic particles exist in a what has been called "super-position" and that upon viewing, the act of viewing causes the ultimate position to be determined.

That is the basis of the Schroedinger cat in the box mental experiment. The cat in the box is neither dead or alive until you open the box. I'm with Einstein, I don't believe a mythical god plays at dice.

The assertion seems to substitute for Bishop Berkeley's claim that none of this exists except that it exists as thought in the mind of god, that none of this exists, or has an actual final position, except as a mental act in the mind of the viewer.

The general problem I think underlies these issues is a lack of data hence we try to solve problems in our heads lacking actual physical data.

The completion of the Super Hadrian Collider in Cern later this year may help solve the data problem.

But the issue smells of another problem, i.e., the prevalence of the agnosticism of Kant and his unknowable thing in itself. There is talk of finding a unifying theory of all things. I think because of the prevalence of agnosticism they are missing the fact that the central unifying aspect of all of material reality is that it is always in motion. Motion is that unifier. The problem once you accept that is to determine the nature of the motion in each particular case and how it relates to other cases.

I am not a physicist nor a mathematician but I suspect that with a little thought, and the realization of how universal motion affects all things, they will solve the problem of the invisible dark matter.

j.

Most intresting observations.

I like it!

milo

I made an earlier observation on the quest stated and upon further delibiration, i return, as this is an intresting posting and worthy of further review. What perplexes me is the last question, which i would add a twist to, namely what is the other universal constants we all hold so dear.

What is this constant we hold so dear, it can only be one, if you have two or more, then by definition the point is moot. Because it is not coinstent within the framework hypotized.

The last question, dear sir, was asked, as it were, tongue in cheek.

I didn't realize I had been here before so I left that question to Sparky.

Nonetheless, now I realize how very accurate my question was.

What a mess!

Bye!

j.