Previous in Forum: bottle of acid is missing from the chemistry lab shelf   Next in Forum: pitting on heat exchanger of textile dyeing machine
Close
Close
Close
17 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1

Spanish Moss.

05/28/2008 6:45 PM

OK I have close to about 500 oaks with spanish moss in them. what is the ratio for copper sulfate lime and water. I really need it. so plz hurry Its killing my trees off! ,Cody(Snipr)

Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Spanish Moss
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
5
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica Hobbies - Hunting - Member Hobbies - Fishing - Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 4395
Good Answers: 230
#1

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/28/2008 9:07 PM

Hello Snipr

From: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7481.html#BORDEAUX

<"....UC IPM Home > Homes, Gardens, Landscapes, and Turf > Bordeaux Mixture

Printer-friendly version

How to Manage Pests

Pesticide Information


Bordeaux Mixture

Published 11/00

In this Guideline:


Bordeaux mixture is an outstanding fungicide and bactericide that has been used for decades to control some diseases of tree fruits and nuts, vine fruits, and ornamentals. The ability of Bordeaux mixture to weather the fall, winter, and spring rains and to adhere to plants makes it an excellent choice for a winter fungicide. If Bordeaux mixture is applied in spring after the tree breaks dormancy, use weaker, more dilute formulations of the mixture to reduce the risk of plant injury. The application of Bordeaux during hot weather may cause yellowing and leaf drop. Leaf burn may occur if rain occurs soon after a Bordeaux application. To reduce the chance of leaf burn, add 1 quart of spray oil for every 100 gallons of spray mixture.

Fixed copper fungicide (tribasic copper sulfate, copper oxychloride sulfate, cupric hydroxide) sprays also control some of the same disease-causing organisms as Bordeaux mixture. While fixed copper sprays are much easier to prepare, they are far less persistent and will not withstand winter rains as well as Bordeaux mix. They are most effective and are a better choice to use in spring after the trees have broken dormancy and tender leaves are exposed. To be effective for certain pathogens such as the leaf curl fungus, the fixed copper compound must contain at least 50% copper. With all Bordeaux and fixed copper sprays, thorough coverage is essential to give plants the desired protection from disease-causing pathogens. Advantages and disadvantages of both sprays are outlined in Table 1.

Table 1. Advantages and Disadvantages of Fixed Copper Sprays and Bordeaux Mixture.
Characteristic Fixed coppers Bordeaux mixture
ease of storage less corrosive, store dry store only in stock solutions or dry, not mixed
effectiveness less effective, less persistent highly effective, deposit highly durable
environmental impact less active for less time; seldom stains longer lasting, more active; stains surfaces
phytotoxicity safe for most plants and tender growth high pH, salty deposit, more phytotoxic
compatibility compatible with many pesticides not compatible with most pesticides
ease of preparation easily prepared, less safety equipment takes longer and requires more knowledge to prepare; safety equipment required
corrosiveness less corrosive spray mixture corrosive spray mixture

Note: Copper must be kept in dry storage. Effectiveness is a function of coverage, timing, and concentration.

Bordeaux is also commercially available in premixed packages; however, these products are not nearly as effective as freshly made Bordeaux.

BORDEAUX FORMULAS

While there are many Bordeaux formulas for the control of plant diseases, generally the 10-10-100 works well for many disease-causing pathogens. Among its many uses are applications in fall to control the overwintering fire blight inoculum in pears and apples, leaf curl and shot hole pathogens in peach and nectarine, downy mildew and powdery mildew fungi in grapes, peacock spot pathogen in olives, walnut blight bacteria in walnut, and black spot fungus in roses. Because Bordeaux colors the sprayed plants blue and may discolor house paint, it is not used as often on ornamental plants as it is on trees, vines, or agricultural plants.

The three hyphenated numbers in a Bordeaux formula (e.g., 10-10-100) represent the amount of each material present. The first number refers to the pounds of copper sulfate, the second number refers to the pounds of hydrated lime, and the last number refers to the total gallons of water to be used. Thus, a 10-10-100 Bordeaux means: 10 pounds of copper sulfate, 10 pounds of lime, and 100 gallons of water. A 1 gallon mixture of 10-10-100 Bordeaux contains 3-1/3 tablespoons of copper sulfate and 10 tablespoons of hydrated lime in 1 gallon of water.

THE MATERIALS

Copper sulfate and hydrated lime can be purchased at most garden centers.

Copper Sulfate. Powdered copper sulfate, often referred to as "bluestone," is finely ground, dissolves relatively quickly in water, and is a must for the preparation of Bordeaux mixture. Ordinary lump copper sulfate is not satisfactory because it is slow to go into solution. Store copper sulfate in a dry place. If it gets moist, it becomes lumpy and is then difficult to work with.

Lime. Either hydrated lime or slaked lime can be used to prepare Bordeaux. The most important point is that fresh lime be used. Don't use lime from last season.

Hydrated Lime. Use only good quality hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide). The hydrated lime should be fresh; i.e., not carbonated by prolonged exposure to air. Hydrated lime is stable and usually readily available under several trade names. Because it comes as a dust, protect your eyes, nose, and mouth from any dust powder by using a dust and mist filtering respirator when mixing.

Slaked Lime. Slaked lime is prepared by adding "quick" (hot, burned, unslaked) lime (calcium oxide [CaO]) to water to produce calcium hydroxide; i.e., CaO + H2O = Ca(OH)2. Slaking quick lime in water produces heat sufficient to boil the water, so use caution in regulating the amount of lime added to the water at any one time so that it doesn't splash. Wear goggles or safety glasses to protect your eyes. Add enough lime to obtain the consistency of milk. Slaked lime makes an excellent suspension, but requires more time, effort, and containers than the use of prepared hydrated lime.....">

So now you know the remedy.

Get your Bordeaux mixture into that sprayer, and go.

Kind Regards....

__________________
"The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time" - SparkY
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Australia - Member - Torn and breading Engineering Fields - Nanoengineering - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Magnetic Island, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3721
Good Answers: 74
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/29/2008 11:22 PM

Who could ask for a better answer. Great stuff. You should have your century soon. Ky.

__________________
The Twain Has Met
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Endless Mountains of NE Pa, USA
Posts: 298
Good Answers: 20
#4
In reply to #1

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/29/2008 11:42 PM

Hi sparky

Yes! It is an excellent answer. I meant to give you a GA before. Sorry for the delay.

The "century" is yours.

Jeff

__________________
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the inner resolve to rise above it....or the inane lapse in judgement brought on by copious imbibitions....Egre Flagrus
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Australia - Member - Torn and breading Engineering Fields - Nanoengineering - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Magnetic Island, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3721
Good Answers: 74
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/30/2008 1:09 AM

Yeah Jeff, not every day a Kiwi gets a ton.

__________________
The Twain Has Met
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Engineering Fields - Manufacturing Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Endless Mountains of NE Pa, USA
Posts: 298
Good Answers: 20
#2

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/29/2008 10:45 PM

Hi Snipr

Not sure where you're located, but before you kill off all of that moss, maybe consider having somebody pull down a very large mountain of it.

That stuff sells at $4 - 5 for a Very Small bag in hobby & decoration stores here in the Northeast US...doesn't grow up here and sells like crazy!

Just needs to be treated for red bugs and other pests.

Would more than pay for the chemicals needed to kill it off and then some.

Just an idea.

Good luck.

__________________
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the inner resolve to rise above it....or the inane lapse in judgement brought on by copious imbibitions....Egre Flagrus
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Good Answers: 2
#6

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/30/2008 6:06 AM

This is the first time I have heard reference to Spanish Moss as a disease or infestation - and I have lived in the deep south for 37 years. Most yankees swoon at the sight of the stuff. But if you want to control it just open up the tree(s) with pruning to more light and air. Misuse of the copper will kill everything and you may need a permit to spray that on 500 trees.

Bobguz

__________________
"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." -- Orville Wright
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member Engineering Fields - Mining Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Construction Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Hunting - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1014
Good Answers: 12
#7

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/30/2008 7:58 AM

The ration of Copper to sulfate lime is 10 lbs per 100 gallons or 6tsp per gallon. This should only be sprayed during the trees dormant stage because of the the chemicals will kill new tender leaves and growth plus other young plants. The most likely reason for the heavy growth of Spanish Moss on your trees is that they are getting older thus weaker or they have an parasite or disease which is restricting the growth of the tree which in turn would reduce the Spanish Moss

__________________
John J Baker
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/30/2008 8:23 AM

Snipr,

I recommend you call your County Agriculture Agent. They're in the phone book or call your county or state "Information". The ag agent services are usually free and he or she can tell you everything you're going to need to legally solve your problem.

Bobguz

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/30/2008 9:43 AM

This reminds me of a major cities park officials who came up with the idea that removing all of the dead wood from a large and wonderful city park would make the park prettier. With out doing any research on the ecology of the park, those park officials proceeded to remove all of the dead wood. Soon afterwards area birding enthusiasts and biologists began to miss out on some of the animals which relied on the dead wood as part of their habitat. My point is that without performing the necessary ecological research about your stand of oaks removing such a valuable part of that local habitat might prove detrimental to the natural components you might just come to miss out on. Certainly adding poison to the mix is always the last remedy to consider. On the other hand, harvesting some of your crop and selling it might allow you to pay for the harvesting while thinning out your crop providing your trees with enough light to sprout more leaves. Not to mention prettying up the place a bit?

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 363
Good Answers: 6
#10

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/30/2008 4:55 PM

hi everyone,

two things:

first oak trees normally have a short life compared to other trees. in a mixed forest, the oaks usually start dieing off at 30 years, while the pines and firs go up to 125 years. could just be the natural time for the oaks to start dying.

second: besides the selling of spanish moss as a floral item, which is really true, it is also a medicinal. it is an astringent. so, could be marketed to the herbal industry.

I also have not heard of spanish moss killing oaks. there is actually a symbiotic relationship between them.

Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - Toronto, Ontario (South Parkdale On The Lakeshore) Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - Great Lakes School Of Marine Technology (Owen Sound and Port Colbourne) Technical Fields - Architecture - Private Practice 1976-1990 Technical Fields - Education - Toronto Teachers' College 1971 Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - Founding Member Hobbies - Hunting - Founding Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - Founding Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada
Posts: 1265
Good Answers: 14
#11

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/30/2008 9:00 PM

Hi, Snipr!

Welcome to CR4!

If you're an engineer, you'll have a great time in this website. If you're not, you'll still have a great time here. So....have a great time here! BTW, your inquiry made page one on Google in the Blogtoplist list in the Spanish Moss category (although it has not received any replies yet). So watch out what you blog in here. Others are watching!

Obviously, I checked out a few sources about your problem. Most of it you probably already know. I awarded BakerJohn a G.A. for his direct answer to your question in blog #7 above. Hope the following information also helps, especially #4 below:

1. Spanish moss (Tillandsia usneoides) is an epiphyte. An epiphyte is an organism that lives upon a plant, using only the plant for support and protection. Spanish moss does not feed directly on the tree but obtains its water and nutrients from the air and rain. Spanish moss is limited to warm, humid areas of the southern and coastal regions of the state. Each bundle of moss is made up of a mass of long, gray-green filaments, which are its stems and leaves. Since the leaves of Spanish moss require sunlight to produce their own food, it is usually found in trees that are in a state of decline. Heavy infestations of Spanish moss can lead to further tree decline by shading out lower leaves and the weight of large masses of wet Spanish moss can lead to limb breakage.

Prevention and Treatment: Increasing tree vigor through proper watering and fertilization is one way to restrict the growth of Spanish moss. Removal by hand may also be necessary to rid the tree completely.

2....You will find it mainly in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, the Carolinas and Florida. I've also been told that it grows in Texas and it probably grows in other states, also. It is very dense in bogs and swamps, and is usually seen along rivers and bayous and in Coastal areas where I live.

The above view is typical of Spanish Moss on Cypress trees in swamps.

It is neither a moss nor a parasite; rather, it is a tropical, epiphytic herb which grows on another plant upon which it depends for mechanical support but not for nutrients. An epiphyte, or air plant, has no roots. Having through evolution broken all connection from the earth, it is self-sustaining in its manufacture of food and absorption of nutrients from aerial roots. It just uses trees as its substratum on which to grow.

It belongs to the pineapple family, Bromeliaceae. It's also called "Greybeard" (because it looks like an old man's beard), and Tillandsia, and Florida Moss...

  • Because it absorbs a lot of water when it rains, heavy clumps of Spanish Moss can cause entire branches of the Live Oak tree to break off.
  • Other than pulling it off the tree branches, I don't know of anything that will kill it without damaging the trees.

3. This link is informed data of Spanish moss.
Apparently the moss has been misunderstood for many years.

Clemson University Cooperating with U.S. Department of Agriculture,
SPANISH MOSS

Spanish moss (Tillandsia usneoides) is one of the most misunderstood plants found throughout the Deep South. To native South Carolinians, these gray strands draping from the branches of live oaks and other trees are a natural part of the scenery, while many newcomers fear that it may be killing their trees.

Contrary to popular belief, Spanish moss causes little to no detrimental effect on a host tree

The link below gives information about the Spanish moss.

GARDEN Q&A: Spanish moss won't harm trees
Q: I have a large oak tree that is covered with moss. How can I get rid of it?

A: Spanish moss itself is not harmful to trees and is found in healthy trees throughout the South. It is not a parasite of the host tree. Rather, it is an epiphyte and gets all of its nutrients from air and rain water. Mother Nature's creatures use it for hiding and for nest making.

If the foliage on your tree becomes increasingly covered by moss and is not able to receive adequate sunlight, it may be an indication that the tree is stressed for reasons other than the presence of the moss.

Hand-picking by the homeowner or a professional is the most recommended practice to remove moss. Copper sulphate is sometimes recommended to control moss, but can cause damage to tender growth on the tree and might be harmful to the surrounding landscape if carried by the wind. Use of this product on large trees would be quite cumbersome. Check the label to make sure it can be applied to the tree you want to treat.

AND FINALLY, A DIRECT ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION:

4. Spanish Moss Removal Info. Easy Spanish moss removal Guide.

Answer

The following materials are licensed for control of Spanish moss and/or ball moss: TC Tribasic Copper Sulphate, Blue Shield Basic Copper 53, Micro Flo Basic Copper 53, Micro Flo Copper 3 FL. It should be noted that there is evidence that copper-based herbicides and fungicides may cause damage to tender growth on oak trees.

I would spray before the leaves bud out or wait until about mid summer when the leaves are not tender. As with all herbicides, when using these materials read and follow label directions carefully.

Hand removal of Spanish moss is possible and can be done successfully on small trees by standing on a ladder or using a pole. For larger trees, a basket-truck or "cherry-picker" is usually necessary. The procedure is labor intensive and costly. Homeowners would be well advised to consider the ecological benefits of Spanish moss and let the plant grow unless heavy infestation is endangering the health of the tree through reduced light. In such cases, hand removal of the denser festoons coupled with judicious pruning of light-suppressed branches will usually restore the tree to a more attractive and healthier condition.

[Reading the labels on the above products might give you a good idea of the proportions of each ingredient. With 500 trees, you'll probably need to get a licence and hire a spray plane! But one of the above entries warns about damage to surrounding vegetation. So take care!]

Good Luck with your pruning!

Mark




Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica Hobbies - Hunting - Member Hobbies - Fishing - Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 4395
Good Answers: 230
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/31/2008 2:54 AM

Hello MarkTheHandyman

Could you please not use the "Smiley Central" link etc which shows at the bottom of your Post.

If you don't know yet, that link atr Smiley Central, actually installs Spyware on a Computer.

It's best not to propagate Spyware, as I'm sure you realise now.

Thank you.

Kind Regards....

__________________
"The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time" - SparkY
Register to Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - Toronto, Ontario (South Parkdale On The Lakeshore) Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - Great Lakes School Of Marine Technology (Owen Sound and Port Colbourne) Technical Fields - Architecture - Private Practice 1976-1990 Technical Fields - Education - Toronto Teachers' College 1971 Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - Founding Member Hobbies - Hunting - Founding Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - Founding Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada
Posts: 1265
Good Answers: 14
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/31/2008 11:02 AM

Hi, Sparkstation!

I think you're correct. I noticed, just today, that the Smiley Central images offer a click potential, which must mean that they have installed at the very least an Adware link through them. I don't know whether it would propogate or not as either Adware or spyware through a blog site like this, but I certainly won't take the chance again that it might.

The I.M. Smiley figure group, on the other hand, have assured me that their entire income stems from shared Google hits (they offer a search engine line), and have no adware or spyware hidden agenda through the use of their figures.

Mark

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Good Answers: 2
#14
In reply to #11

Re: Spanish Moss.

05/31/2008 5:31 PM

Mark,

I think we're looking at bromeliads here not Spanish Moss.

Bobguz

__________________
"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." -- Orville Wright
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Canada - Member - Toronto, Ontario (South Parkdale On The Lakeshore) Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - Great Lakes School Of Marine Technology (Owen Sound and Port Colbourne) Technical Fields - Architecture - Private Practice 1976-1990 Technical Fields - Education - Toronto Teachers' College 1971 Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - Founding Member Hobbies - Hunting - Founding Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - Founding Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto Ontario Canada
Posts: 1265
Good Answers: 14
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Spanish Moss.

06/02/2008 1:18 PM

Hi, bobguz!

Just about all the sites on Spanish moss list it as a member of the bromeliaceae family (see below).

However, the idea is to kill it off as much as possible without damaging either the oak trees or the surrounding vegetation in the process because the "cure" in this case might be more damaging than the "disease" unless handled with great care.

That's why the literature recommends realizing that

· (a) the moss is not a harmful plant or parasite, just another plant that lives in trees

· (b) its over-growth is a problem that arises when the oaks themselves might be in need of special nutrients, irrigation, and pruning to achieve health they may have lost, and

· (c) removing the Spanish moss by hand in areas where it is potentially too heavy when wet by rain for the oak's branches to bear, or impeding the oak's light; and removing dead branches of the oak where they are impeding light to its living branches and leaves is the best method of dealing with the moss and restoring the trees to health.

This from some site or another via 'ask.com':

Pineapple Family (Bromeliaceae)

Although the pineapple (Ananas comosus) is grown throughout tropical regions of the world, it is actually native to the New World. Pineapples belong to the diverse bromelia family (Bromeliaceae), along with the many tropical epiphytes called bromeliads (Bromelia), the xerophytic yucca-like plants (Puya), and the lichen-like "Spanish moss" (Tillandsia usneoides) that hangs in trees of the southeastern United States.

Mark

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Commentator

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Good Answers: 2
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Spanish Moss.

06/02/2008 7:19 PM

Mark,

Taxonomy aside, gardeners and foresters recognize a clear dicotomy between bromeliads that point skyward and erupt in brilliant colors, and, Spanish Moss that dangles, blue green from the tree limb.

I can't understand why you would kill either of these commercially valuable plants. Invite nurserymen to harvest them and make some money.

Bobguz

__________________
"If we all worked on the assumption that what is accepted as true is really true, there would be little hope of advance." -- Orville Wright
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Spanish Moss.

09/13/2008 1:34 PM

I'm a former 40 year resident of Massachusetts. Now in Florida for 14 years, I can tell you first hand that Spanish Moss KILLS TREES!!

It begins as a harmless looking bit of grey fluff at the intersection of branches. Moisture from the air and especially a good rain turn the moss a sickly green color as the moss grows and chokes off the portion of the tree it has attached itself to.

In my case, there are 100+ ft tall live oak on the property. Spanish Moss hangs from some of the higher branches and reaches lengths of 30-40 ft.

My method of attack will be to rent a cherry picker bucket truck and pull the moss off the limbs by hand, then steam it, to kill the moss and then sell it as there is much demand for it.

With any luck, I shall reap enough income from the virtual tons of moss to pay for the cherry picker rental.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 17 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (3); artbyjoe (1); bakerjohn (1); bobguz (3); ky (2); MarkTheHandyman (3); snygolfgs (2); Sparkstation (2)

Previous in Forum: bottle of acid is missing from the chemistry lab shelf   Next in Forum: pitting on heat exchanger of textile dyeing machine

Advertisement