Previous in Forum: Pneumatic metric fittings   Next in Forum: What would be your best choice for a survival weapon?
Close
Close
Close
Page 1 of 2: « First 1 2 Next > Last »
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 2

Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 11:59 AM

Here is the old chestnut--To celebrate Independence Day I shoot my 2nd Amendment-protected firearm into the air--at a muzzle velocity of 2000fps and shooting straight up, how long will it take a 175-grain bullet to return to the ground [assuming it doesn't strike anything] and will it strike the ground with the same velocity at which it left the gun-barrel?

__________________
Ready--Set--EVOLVE!
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5197
Good Answers: 266
#1

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 1:55 PM

I have never seen a Texan be able to hold any thing straight while celebrating for any occasion. And they don't need much to celebrate. Just getting off work will due.

From a former g**dam yankee now just a dam yankee.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#2

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 3:06 PM

Neglecting air resistance, time of flight ≈ 4000/32 = 125s (plus the time on the downward trip between muzzle-tip (which it will pass at 2000fps) and the ground).

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Power-User
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 298
Good Answers: 3
#22
In reply to #2

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:26 AM

Where do you get the 4,000 from? And won't it pass the muzzle tip and the ground at about 200fps?

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#35
In reply to #22

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 10:17 AM

v = u + ft ............................ (1)

where:

v = final velocity,

u = initial velocity,

f = acceleration,

t = time.

Substitute u = 2000ft/s, v = 0 and f = -32 ft/s2 (negative as it's downward, i.e. decelerating).

So from (1), 0 = 2000 - 32.t, or 32.t = 2000 or t = 2000/32. (taking f as acceleration due to gravity ≈ 32 ft/s2).

This is the time to go up.

Time to go down (to the muzzle-tip) is equal, so ttotal = 2 x 2000/32 = 4000/32 = 125 seconds.

(Remember, my first statement was "Neglecting air resistance", which is obviously going to lead to a totally impractical answer (as I've hypothesised a totally impractical situation)).

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Power-User
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 298
Good Answers: 3
#38
In reply to #35

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 11:07 AM

Um,

I am pretty dense today. You said take 2,000/32= time going up? That would be 62.5 seconds, correct? (2,000/32) And then you say it only takes 62.5 seconds to fall back to the ground when its max speed is not even 200 fps?

How long DOES it take a bullet leaving the barrel at 2,000fps to stop going up? (how many seconds) and how high would it be? Yes, I understand it leaves at 2,000fps but it instantly starts a slowing down curve until it stops, no matter if it is straight up or horizontally. It sure takes longer than 1 second to travel 2,000 feet.

So, another question: at the end of one second, how far has it traveled?

What am I missing here, John?

Ken

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#40
In reply to #38

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 11:55 AM

Ken, (all this neglecting air resistance) you're right on the 62.5 seconds (just taking half of my previous calculations). That's how long it takes to go up. By this time, it will have reached a height given by:

s = t x (u + v)/2 ............................ (2)

(Note - this equation holds for linear acceleration).

Where:

v = final velocity,

u = initial velocity,

s = distance travelled,

t = time.

With t = 62.5s, u = 2000ft/s and v = 0 (it's stopped going up), (2) gives s = 62.5 x (2000+0)/2 = 625000ft.

It's reached the top of it's trajectory, so now it's going to come back down, accelerated by gravity.

So on the way down, we can apply this one:

v2 = u2 + 2 x f x s ............................ (3)

with s, u and v defined above, and f = acceleration.

So,

v2 = 0x0 + 2x32x625000 = 64x625000 = 40,000,000

So v (the final velocity) = √40,000,000 = 2000fps.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Power-User
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 298
Good Answers: 3
#43
In reply to #40

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 12:47 PM

Ah, yes: all this neglecting air resistance !

That would mean it would zip up to 118 miles above the earth. And a bullet at 4,000fps would be twice that high, higher than the space shuttle? :)

How high WITH air resistance (an educated guess) would a bullet travel fired straight up, John?

Ken

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#44
In reply to #43

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 1:36 PM

Not quite - a bullet at twice the initial velocity would go four times as high (neglecting air resistance!!!! - which I stated in every post).

(Also, I made a few goofs - the height should have been 62500ft ≈ 11.8 miles; feeding it through it should've come to a line giving √4,000,000 = 2000fps ).

Educated guess? No. I know next to nothing about air resistance & the behaviour of 'real' projectiles, but I'd put it somewhere between 2,000 and 5,000 feet.

Do you know?

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#46
In reply to #44

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 2:31 PM

I still say you are neglecting the gravitational constant which will change with altitude, so instead of 11.8 miles its probably 20 km

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#47
In reply to #46

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 2:50 PM
__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 298
Good Answers: 3
#51
In reply to #44

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 7:36 PM

I used to know some of that stuff, John. Used to shoot, so I have a bunch of reloading equipment out in the shop with all the books and stuff.

Seems like there is no time in the day anymore to get things done. Sure seemed more got done when I was younger.

I'll study that a little more. Lots of info "out there" (Internet and other places, have to be careful with any of the Internet stuff though, regarding anything, some of it [too high of a percentage] is 100% wrong but all too many accept it as gospel) on how much different bullets drop in 100yds, 300yds etc. All in the shape.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#3

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 3:09 PM

What is 175 grains in real metric money??

Don't forget John, the gravitational constant will be changing...

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 4:00 PM
__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#33
In reply to #3

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 10:02 AM

"What is 175 grains in real metric money??"

Depends on the calibre, but I'd say $.79 - $1.99 apiece would be a likely range... You could probably reload at home for a bit less.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#34
In reply to #33

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 10:09 AM

He said metric money. 1 euro is = to $1.56. The metric system what ever happened to it?

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#36
In reply to #34

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 10:39 AM

Ummm...I think dollars and cents IS a metric system of money, no? I'm not sure WHAT "Euros" are!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#37
In reply to #36

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 10:44 AM

I was just trying to play along with the foreign conversions. (whitch I am not good at)

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#41
In reply to #37

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 11:57 AM

Gotcha - pounds, shillings, and pence is about as esoteric as grains, drams, and ounces. Actually, I think Euros are also a metric money system like dollars and cents (which only makes sense...). When I was in the Navy, it got confusing what with baht, yen, pesos, francs, etc. Fortunately, all you really needed was an approximate "how many to a dollar" value when you converted your currency. The rest was just "how many yen" from that point on.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#45
In reply to #41

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 2:25 PM

Ahh yes the good ole days when we had rods, poles and perches and sometimes slugs, ferkins and chains....

John

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#48
In reply to #45

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 3:22 PM

And a gill of the finest for ya, Mate! Enjoy!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 588
Good Answers: 13
#5

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 7:37 PM

it will hit the ground at its terminal velocity which is based on shape and spin (tumbling). I'd guess 200 feet/sec when it hits.

Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#8
In reply to #5

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 11:36 PM

I believe the velosity of a falling object is approx. 119 or 129 mph, memory is vague on long forgotten stats.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#6

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 8:11 PM

No wonder Hood's boys had trouble at Gettysburg. "Lookit, thar's some Yankees. Ever'body point straight up. Fire!"

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #6

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 11:48 PM

Check the kill ratio records for CSA vs. US infantry fire in the Civil War. I think you will find that the CSA men (including Hood's Texans) were damn good shots.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#12
In reply to #9

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 6:08 AM

Hi guest,

The smiley face (in any version) is a sign I'm funning. I forgot to hit the off-topic button.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brecksville, OH
Posts: 1621
Good Answers: 18
#19
In reply to #9

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:10 AM

Did anybody keep that kind of records during the Civil War?

__________________
"Consensus Science got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?" : Rephrase of Will Rogers Comment
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:16 AM

I keep wondering why everybody says it's over.

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#26
In reply to #19

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:34 AM

Only in the passionate recollections of old men sitting on the porch at the Soldier's Home.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#54
In reply to #19

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 12:23 AM

Not in total casualties with absolute precision but some records were kept. Check the Army Surgeon General's historical records or the USMA (West Point) History documents.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia City, Indiana, USA
Posts: 836
Good Answers: 96
#7

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

06/30/2008 11:35 PM

An all dis time I fought it was duh rite to bare arms

I don know how long at dang bullits gonna take, I just know I ain't got time to cifer it.

RUN, ya dang fool ... RUN!

__________________
"Just when I had all the answers, they changed all the questions"
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Piney Flats, Tennessee
Posts: 1740
Good Answers: 23
#10

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 12:56 AM

Did you see the first thing the NRA did after the Supreme Court ruling?

They filed suit in several California cities to get back the rights to keep guns in thier homes of people living in Public Housing. Crime has drop serverly since the threat of being expelled from public housing if a weapon of any kind were found in the home by the cops or inspector who look for damage.

Now this tells me the NRA is run by the Weapons Manufactures and their largest investors are possilbe the owners of Funeral Homes, Casket Makers and Grave yards.

Why else would they be comcerned with the poor having guns when the poor need food, education, jobs and transportation. They would have to miss meals to buy a gun and the ammo.

__________________
If you never do anything you never have problems.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#16
In reply to #10

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 7:48 AM

I was under the impression that this was a math question not a PSA for (WHINERS)

wimpy-humans-in-non-educated-situations.

I can see the relation of guns in the projects and the terminal velocity on a muzzle loader. I see you are from Tennessee, but I am guessing you are a transplant from the north, most real Tenn. people would have to put their gun down to type a response.

Vt = {2*m*g/[Cd*A*r]}1/2 and don't for get to factor in the 9.8m/s/s on the up trip and -9.8m/s/s on the down trip.

SO I will say the supreme court got 1 thing right in 20 years.

When guns are outlawed only DEL and I will be there to Kill them with arrows!!

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#17
In reply to #16

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 7:55 AM

" ...the 9.8m/s/s on the up trip and -9.8m/s/s on the down trip."

Init the other way round?

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:01 AM

Sorry I was using the upwards direction for the positive and gravity and the negative .

I was trying to keep it easy to understand. Thanks for the correction.

I yield to your gUrU-ness.

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Piney Flats, Tennessee
Posts: 1740
Good Answers: 23
#28
In reply to #16

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 9:01 AM

You would be wrong. Native Tennessean and Disabled Vietnam Veteran who has owned guns but no longer sees the need for more than a snake gun around the farm. I actually know few Tenneseans who own guns if they do the weapons are not mentioned or displayed. We have found a few things to do since we crawled out of the caves that do not include killing and skinning the wild beasts for dinner.

The question left out the changes in wind direction not to mention velocity at different levels. The answer is most likely they they would be using a lead bullet and it will land near the water supply and slowly or many years leech small amounts of leasd and add to the polluition already in the water going into homes for children to drink.

__________________
If you never do anything you never have problems.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#30
In reply to #28

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 9:19 AM

You have my respect...and admiration... I will drop all "yucky stuff" and place you with other hero's who have served this country. I am curious about lead, don't we get it from the ground anyway? And remember that di-hydrogen oxide kills more people around the world than most any weapon.

www.gopetition.com/online/2479.html

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East of Seattle, Washington state Republic of the 50 states of America
Posts: 2045
Good Answers: 36
#11

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 2:45 AM

You will find shape and balance of the projectile will make a difference.

With a balance point toward the rear in a boat tail bullet may retain enough spin to come down backwards without tumbling(possible not probable). Otherwise the bullet goes up fast and comes down slow tumbling. Air resistance can be a major factor.

Brad

__________________
(Larrabee's Law) Half of everything you hear in a classroom is crap. Education is figuring out which half is which.
Register to Reply
Power-User
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: US - NC
Posts: 316
Good Answers: 9
#13

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 7:17 AM

heh...all I know is GOD made Man & Sam Colt made 'em safe...

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 7:26 AM

Errrrmmm how many gun related deaths were there in the USA last year???

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 7:42 AM

How many car related deaths are there in the UK every year? I have an idea, lets outlaw cars to keep everybody safe from themselves...

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#21
In reply to #15

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:16 AM

Guest, did I say cars kept people safe ??

I was asking why the previous poster said guns kept people safe when the statistics show they do not...

Now go and register so we can talk man to man instead of me to a person in hiding

John.

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Power-User
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 298
Good Answers: 3
#24
In reply to #21

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:33 AM

What statistics are those John? Here's some good reading.

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

* Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals at least 764,000 times a year. This figure is the lowest among a group of 9 nationwide surveys done by organizations including Gallup and the Los Angeles Times. (16b)

* In 1982, a survey of imprisoned criminals found that 34% of them had been "scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim." (16c)

And the following really shows banning handguns works! 200% vs 12% for the rest of the USA.

* Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%. (1)

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#39
In reply to #24

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 11:10 AM

Interesting link MrChevy...

As usual I reckon the statistics can be made to prove something either way.

One thing I know for certain though is that this subject causes a lot of heated discussion for Americans... But not very much in the UK... I think our police force is the only one in the world where they don't carry guns normally...

Whenever the question of arming our police has been raised in the past its always been voted out... I think the vast majority of people in the UK will never be involved or actually see, let alone handle a gun... Unless its a shotgun in the countryside...

However, I didn't want to start an argument - So even though it was Independence from us that you lot kicked out

Happy Independence day folks!!!

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#42
In reply to #39

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 12:01 PM

"Yankee Doodle went to Ascot, just to play the ponies..." Thanks, Mate, same back!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Anonymous Poster
#55
In reply to #39

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 12:40 AM

History usually repeats itself. When the UK was facing a possible German invasion in WW II the call went out to send firearms to the Brits so they could defend themselves. Many U.S. citizens contributed their privately and legally owned firearms to their British cousins. After the war ended the majority of those weapons were collected and dumped at sea. Seems the British government doesn't trust it's citizens (or should I say subjects) with firearms. A firearm is a tool just like a hammer or kitchen knife. The way it is used determines whether or not it has a negative effect. Engineers of all people should understand and appreciate that. You can be killed with a baseball bat, sling, spear or stick, just not as quickly or efficiently as with a firearm. The ultimate problem is human behavior and passing laws banning specific objects is not going to make you safe.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#59
In reply to #39

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 6:10 AM

We won? Then how come you got to keep Judi Dench and the Thompson family and we had to take Beckham and Posh?

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#60
In reply to #59

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 7:09 AM

LOL TVP

Into everyone's life a little rain must fall....

John

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: La Grande, Oregon U.S.A.
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 23
#66
In reply to #39

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 12:29 PM

Electroman,

I was just recently in England - London to Newcastle, then hiked Hadrian's wall - very pleasant place and people. I was surprised at the number of armed police. Was that just the transportation hubs?

LG_DAVE

__________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft! - Theodore Roosevelt
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#68
In reply to #66

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 2:15 PM

Almost certainly Dave, since a few years ago and the bombings (together with the last 40 years of IRA bombings) there has been a much heightened security at places of transport, especially airports and tube stations etc...

Hiked Hadrian's wall huh?! That's something I'd like to do when I've grown up a bit

John.

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: La Grande, Oregon U.S.A.
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 23
#71
In reply to #68

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 3:36 PM

Electroman,

I very much recommend hiking Hadrian's wall. I felt that the trail was marked very well and the restored sites and museums gave good information without the overdevelopment that can obscure the sense of historical places. There was some talk recently about encouraging people to visit specific sites along the wall rather than walk the whole path. This was to lessen the impact on the farm ground along the path. I could see that pasture especially was being harmed by the volume of foot traffic. As an old farmer, I did note how good some of the pasture was. One especially had almost a perfect mix of clover and grass - not easy to do. Anyway - I hope they can work all the problems out.

LG_DAVE

__________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft! - Theodore Roosevelt
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#81
In reply to #66

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 2:20 PM

No...they heard you was coming

(Or it's to protect the terrorists from the natives)

Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#82
In reply to #81

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 3:16 PM

Same reason as Hadrian's wall is there .... its to protect us from those mad scots!!!

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
United States - Member - Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: La Grande, Oregon U.S.A.
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 23
#83
In reply to #81

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 3:20 PM

couldn't say - but I tend to be happiest where the good guys are better armed than the bad guys.

__________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft! - Theodore Roosevelt
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#84
In reply to #83

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 3:25 PM

Me too, so long as the good guys know I think I'm one of 'em (and agree with me)! Otherwise, I'm happier when I'm better armed than anybody else...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
United States - Member - Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: La Grande, Oregon U.S.A.
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 23
#86
In reply to #84

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 3:50 PM

I agree - the definition of "good guy" is quite important. Zimbabwe, Uganda - the definition may have gotten a little confused there.

__________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft! - Theodore Roosevelt
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#87
In reply to #86

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 4:14 PM

Dern tootin'! Me, I'm one of the good guys no matter WHERE I am, just ask me, I'll tell ya! And the bad guys? Why, them's the ones a-shootin' at me, dadgummit!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#85
In reply to #83

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 3:49 PM

My vote is for everybody except me to be disarmed. And for me to have an M-79. If you think Colt made everybody equal, try a Blooper.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#88
In reply to #85

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 4:18 PM

Well, having used one, I must say they do have their limitations. But under the terms you presupposed (everyone else disarmed), there are certainly worse choices! At least you get the luxury of not having to fire a round a second! (the bad guys all duck for cover if they're still standing)

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#90
In reply to #88

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 4:40 PM

Yeah, I was funning. Something like an Ithaca 37 with alternating buck and ball would make a better choice.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#91
In reply to #90

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 4:46 PM

You can sure declare yer independence with that rig, anyway!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#93
In reply to #91

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 4:50 PM

How come you guys are so fixated on Independence, then?

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#94
In reply to #93

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 5:03 PM

Well, it would have been a little before your time, but back about, oh, seven or eight Monarchs ago, this here piece of real estate was a part of the Kingdom. Yours, that is, although it's currently a Queendom, I guess (you don't call it that, though, do you?). Well, we colonists got a bit upset over taxes on tea, sugar, stamps, porcelain, iron goods, and such like, while not having an MP to our name. We called it "taxation without representation" and got just all out of sorts over it. (We can be like that!) George III, King of the day, was a trifle narrow-minded, so he sent soldiers to teach us some manners. We gave 'em a good old-fashioned butt-kicking, and declared ourselves "INDEPENDENT" of Georgie boy. Made it stick, too. So, ever since then we've celebrated the occasion. That about covers it. Anything else?

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#95
In reply to #94

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 5:15 PM

Dang! Fergot to check the 'anonymous' box! Ya got me fair'n'square!

Given you a GA (which won't do much good, 'less a bunch of other folks do likewise).

Anyhoo, I wuz just stirring it , and I hope y'all have a day!

Best regards to all,

John

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#96
In reply to #91

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 7:35 PM

When I was at Ft. Monmouth, I saw a bus sitting beside the parade ground one day with a whole bunch of Lts and Capts sitting on it just doing nothing but looking straight ahead. I had never seen a payroll transport before - turns out they had a little over a million in small bills (in 1963, a million was a fair amount of money). Anyway, I was nebby so I stuck my head in the door to see what was up. An MP racked an Ithaca about 2 inches from my nose and, for a minute, I thought I heard Jesus calling me. I had been shot at before and that wasn't nearly as hair-raising as the sound of that shotgun slide going home. I don't know what their load was and I sure didn't hang around to ask.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East of Seattle, Washington state Republic of the 50 states of America
Posts: 2045
Good Answers: 36
#97
In reply to #85

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/04/2008 12:37 AM

Make that a 19, the Bloopers big brother mounted on a Browning 50 cal frame.

No one else armed, fleshets and HE and remember up the universe it covers it all.

Brad

__________________
(Larrabee's Law) Half of everything you hear in a classroom is crap. Education is figuring out which half is which.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 2
#50
In reply to #24

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 3:49 PM

The problem with the homicide rate in D.C. is that the wrong people are getting killed!

__________________
Ready--Set--EVOLVE!
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#56
In reply to #50

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 3:42 AM

Comrade, Sorry to tell, all your images are appearing like this:

This can happen if you're just using cut'n'paste to insert the images. To have them appearing correctly on other folks' machines, you should use the "Insert/Edit Image" tool .

Regards, John

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia City, Indiana, USA
Posts: 836
Good Answers: 96
#57
In reply to #56

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 3:59 AM

I thought it was just ME (truly).

I've had SOME occasion when I properly uploaded pics and they didn't appear (but I could see that on my screen before preview and before sending), but trying a second time, all seemed to work okay.

For me, I think it is just a slow and 'buggy' connection.

__________________
"Just when I had all the answers, they changed all the questions"
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#58
In reply to #56

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 4:10 AM

BTW -I can access the images by right-clicking on the blank, selecting 'properties', & copy'n'pasting the image URL into a browser address bar - but it kinda spoils the flow of reading a post!

John

[The image above now appears correctly on my browser, and in your #50, but it didn't work for the previous image in #50. I think it's now picking it up from my local cache - but it's all witchcraft to me! J.]

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 2
#67
In reply to #56

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 1:14 PM

you should use the "Insert/Edit Image" tool .

I'm unable to find this feature--where would I find it?

I nab these "smilies" from Godlike Productions http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/post.php?forum=1&allsmilies=1

a blog for Alien Abductees, Conspiricy Theorists, Coast-to-Coast Insomniacs and other assorted fringe elements...

I'm currently using the local library because, living in the boonies, I'm too far from DSL service and dial-up is just too slow for my ADHD-addled brain to handle.

__________________
Ready--Set--EVOLVE!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#69
In reply to #67

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 3:21 PM

Col. - the insert image tool is the 7th icon from the left on the tool bar at the top of the box where you type in your message. The icon directly to it's left is a broken chain link ("remove hyperlink"), and to the right is the "insert bullets" symbol (like in MS Word). Unless you have text selected, once you start typing the message the icons to the left of that "camera" for image insertion are "grayed out", so it may appear to be the first active icon in the toolbar. The "insert image" will prompt you to insert something saved in your "my pictures" folder (which I use a lot) or if you have a URL to it, you can go far afield finding things. Personally, I prefer to save .jpg, .bmp, and suchlike picture files to insert at my whim.

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 2
#70
In reply to #69

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 3:34 PM

OK--I'm dancing now

Now I have a little more knowledge with which to show off my ignorance!

The chicks in Texas are still pretty bouncy...

__________________
Ready--Set--EVOLVE!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#72
In reply to #70

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 4:10 PM

OK, but your inserted pics are still not showing up...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#73
In reply to #70

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 4:19 PM

Sorry, Col., it still ain't working out here! Still get the Red Ex things.

Here are the pix I think you wanted folk to see:

I posted them by doing what I described in #58, to show the pic in a browser1, then 'right click' - 'save picture as ...' to save it on my HDD (I keep a folder called 'Pics for CR4' for just this sort of thing). I then used the to put them in my post.

Don't know why, but it just doesn't seem to work on everyone else's machine, unless I/you grab the images first, then 'insert' them from my/your local hard drive.

Regards, John.

1 It will also work if you display the image on the Godlike Productions site, and do the 'right click' - 'save picture as ...' thing from there. But it seems it must be saved to your local drive before it can be posted for universal viewing.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 2
#78
In reply to #73

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 1:41 PM

OK--here is the url from Godlike Productions: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/images/smilies/bush_fing.gif

entered into the "Insert/Edit Image" thingie it reveals our commander-in-chief telling the "little" people what they can do about high gasoline prices.

If I understand you correctly, I need to save the picture first, as in bush_fing.gif

then open it via "Image Path" using the "Insert/Edit Image" thingie

__________________
Ready--Set--EVOLVE!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#80
In reply to #78

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 1:48 PM

That worked! (Good choice of images, BTW.)

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#89
In reply to #78

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 4:39 PM

Yup! ya got it there one-hundred-per-cent, CCC. No problemo!

?????????????????

?????????????????

Just as a test, I did a drag-n-drop from your post (to which I was replying). There should be an image of someone nearly as smart as a red 'X' between the rows of '?'s.

I think it'll appear OK, 'cos either it's being stuffed up the wires from my local whatever, or 'cos it's already on your local whatever.

As I said before, it's witchcraft, but it works.

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#92
In reply to #89

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 4:48 PM

Nah, not a witch, just a politician! Happy...errr...Independence Day...ummm...I guess!

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica Hobbies - Hunting - Member Hobbies - Fishing - Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 4395
Good Answers: 230
#76
In reply to #70

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 2:29 AM
__________________
"The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time" - SparkY
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica Hobbies - Hunting - Member Hobbies - Fishing - Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 4395
Good Answers: 230
#77
In reply to #67

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 2:33 AM
__________________
"The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time" - SparkY
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 2
#79
In reply to #77

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 1:45 PM

OK--here is the url from Godlike Productions: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/images/smilies/bush_fing.gif

entered into the "Insert/Edit Image" thingie it reveals our commander-in-chief telling the "little" people what they can do about high gasoline prices.

If I understand you correctly, I need to save the picture first, as in bush_fing.gif

then open it via "Image Path" using the "Insert/Edit Image" thingie like this...how does this look [ok--ae any of the images staying in view?]

__________________
Ready--Set--EVOLVE!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica Hobbies - Hunting - Member Hobbies - Fishing - Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 4395
Good Answers: 230
#75
In reply to #50

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 2:28 AM
__________________
"The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time" - SparkY
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Anonymous Poster
#23
In reply to #14

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:31 AM

Gun death stats are just hype used by Gun controlists and their flunkies in the Media. Gun death stats count all gun deaths. The stats don't tell you how many were murdered, how many killed in defense of self/others or how many were accidental. We teach health in school to promote better hygene and living condition, home ec to teach people how to hopefuly cook edible food and drivers ed to promote better drivers, so why don't we offer gun safety classes in the schools? Being born and raised in the South i was raised up with firearms and the proper way to handle and use them. If more people were educted instead of just seeing the crap pushed at the by tv that would help a lot inreducing accedental deaths. I don't care about the deaths of someone killed while trying to harm another person. The majority of the real victims are put in that position by local, state or federal ordnances restricting there 2nd Ammendment rights. It's ok to use your 1st ammendment right as i'm currently doing and the media takes it so far as to comprome national security and the safety of our armed forces saying it's "our constitutional right" while in the same breath denying others their 2nd ammendment right. Gun toting Bible thumpers started this country and managed to keep it free until the liberals got in and gradually started shaving off the rights "of the people". If our ancestors from WWII and earlier saw the crap going on today in the Unites States they would probably declare war on us to liberate us and give us a Democratic government that truly look after its people instead of the personal whims of the politicians, just as we now claim to be trying to do for other nations.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#25
In reply to #23

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:34 AM

Please sign up so we can br friends!

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
United States - Member - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Great State of Texas
Posts: 221
Good Answers: 6
#29
In reply to #23

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 9:11 AM

Too bad that is off-topic guest(which it is to the OP), but I still wish that I could give that one a good answer anyhow! Gun control lobyists refuse to aknowledge the simple fact that criminals do not follow the law, and a gun ban would only affect law abiding citizens, not criminals! But, then again, the gun control nuts are also part of the same liberal establishment trying to push us more and more towards socialism and they want the public to be more and more dependant on the government for everything, including protection. Taking away guns means taking away the threat of revolution, which is especially important for an increasingly socialistic liberal establishment. Everyone has the right to defend themselves and no government should be able to take that away. A gun ban would essentially force people in a bad situation to 'bring a knife to a gun fight' and lose 10 out of 10 times. It's just sad that people are so naive and buy into this nonsense.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 3)
Power-User
United States - Member - American by birth,southern by the grace of GOD Popular Science - Weaponology - you can't carry that! Technical Fields - Technical Writing - why can't I use a pencil? Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 203
Good Answers: 2
#31
In reply to #29

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 9:33 AM

I had A feeling that this would not be a CIVIL discussion, I guessed a WAR would break out. IS it always gonna be this way? ON the subject of control are they controlling the guns or the people? IT'S crazy, look at the crime rate in Britain, thru the roof as soon as the took the guns aWAY. Like I said before when guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have GSR on their hands during their autopsy.

__________________
The more complex the mind, the greater the need for the simplicity of play... If you think you can or think you can't you'll always be right
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 479
Good Answers: 9
#27
In reply to #14

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 8:59 AM

Are you counting the two that the Brit Neil Entwistle was convicted of last week in Massachusetts (his wife and daughter) or just those by other American's. See link.

Neil

Thank you Scotland Yard for your help on this case.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - Cardio-7

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 621
Good Answers: 10
#32

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 9:55 AM

Comrade, may I assume that you learned physics at the Red Army gymnasium in Moscow? The air resistance would not allow the bullet to strike the ground at 2,000 f/s, wind and the rotation of the earth would assure that the bullet would not land at the same spot it was shot from, the shape, length and rotational energy of the bullet would affect its performance re the wind effect, gravity having a "reverse effect" on the travel of the bullet in rising and then falling, and so on. If it's only a fantasy question, then any answer might be a solution. This not meant to be argumentative, only that, as I see it, your question has no meaning in real life terms. Here's a starter primer: http://shadowspear.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9341

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 127
Good Answers: 2
#49

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 3:44 PM

Wow--and here I thought I had too much time on MY hands!

I can't say I wasn't warned when I moved to Texas, but I had hoped that close proximity to Austin would offer some protection--

Apparently Texas is a state of Gun-Toting

face-shooting bible-thumpinggrave-dancing

beer chuggingFlag wavingconcertina playing

Racist Philandering hyperactive yokels...

so where did we end up--the bullet, WITHOUT REGARD FOR AIR RESISTANCE, takes 131 seconds round trip and strikes the ground at the same speed it left the gun [2000fps]? I brought it up to begin with because I was "taught" that it would return with the same force it left with, and that air resistance didn't really matter because it was essentially a "round trip"--however, I didn't really buy that because it seemed to me that, whichever leg of the journey, air was resisting against forward motion, and the downward trip (32fps per second) was not enough acceleration to regain where i started.. or am I mistaken?

The other reason for this thread was to provoke the side discussions--I was not disappointed!The chicks in Texas are nice, though.

Keep on Dancin'!

__________________
Ready--Set--EVOLVE!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#52
In reply to #49

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/01/2008 7:52 PM

Anyplace that claims Michelle Shocked and Bob Wills as natives has got to be interesting though. But ya gotta slow down on all that executing; I understand that on the Dallas edition of Sesame Street, Ernie yells "Dead muppet walking!" whenever Bert leaves the set.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply
Power-User
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United States - Member - New Member Hobbies - Hunting - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 440
Good Answers: 7
#53
In reply to #52

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 12:01 AM

Oh my! I have gun(s) that will shoot miles!?!?! Not a chance- My 6MM loaded to around 3400 fps with a rifle sighted dead on at 28 yds. is 2" high at 100 yds and back to dead nuts on at 220 yds or so and it will shoot 20km if I simply hold it 180 degrees from the gravitational pull of the earth.

How fast will a body free fall and is it possible to accelerate a body faster than that?

Based on the calculations, you shoot a pistol up at 2000 fps and I shoot a 3000 fps rifle(and for arguments sake lets use a 30 cal. round identical in both). Now, one round will impact the earth twice as fast as its twin?

I know from experience that if you shoot a compound bow straight in the air the arrow will land with enough force to kill you, but I am almost certain the velocity it returns at pales in comparison to what it leaves at.

I am not buying it(yet).

__________________
Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand --Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#61
In reply to #52

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 7:26 AM

It's even more interesting than that! Don't forget Kinky Freidman...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Olde Member!! Engineering Fields - Instrumentation Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dunstable, England
Posts: 2821
Good Answers: 45
#62
In reply to #61

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 7:30 AM

Kinky who ????????

__________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing - Googling is far worse!
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#63
In reply to #62

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 7:50 AM

Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys - one heckuva band! Here's a link...

http://kinkyfriedman.com/

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4448
Good Answers: 143
#64
In reply to #61

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 8:05 AM

Omigod! ROFLMAO. I didn't know about Kinky, but I gotta get some of his stuff. It's like Lenny Bruce meets Lyle Lovett.

__________________
"Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone to Alabama with my banjo on my knee...
Posts: 5595
Good Answers: 20
#65
In reply to #64

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/02/2008 8:16 AM

You have NO idea...

__________________
Veni, vidi, video - I came, I saw, I got it on film.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 6)
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica Hobbies - Hunting - Member Hobbies - Fishing - Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 4395
Good Answers: 230
#74
In reply to #49

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/03/2008 2:27 AM
__________________
"The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time" - SparkY
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User
United States - Member - Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: La Grande, Oregon U.S.A.
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 23
#98

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/05/2008 1:36 PM

Comrad Col.

So, after all this - almost 100 posts - did you actually shoot your gun? If so, which of the plethora of posts convinced you. If not, which dissuaded you?

LG_DAVE

__________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft! - Theodore Roosevelt
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 303
Good Answers: 5
#99

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/08/2008 9:37 AM

Someone should try looking up an episode of Mythbusters. These guys did the full monty on this one. The question was If someone shot a gun up in the air would the returning projectile kill you when it came back down. What they found out was that it would not. The only time there would be a problem is if there was an angle of trajectory. The best the bullet will do on its decent (straight up and down) would be reaching terminal velocity. If an angel is present then the initial velocity is added.

__________________
"I had not anticipated that the work would present any great difficulites" SHACKLETON
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK. Going under cover.
Posts: 9684
Good Answers: 468
#100
In reply to #99

Re: Just in time for (U.S.) Independence Day

07/08/2008 9:47 AM

"If an angel is present..."

(Sorry!)

Shouldn't that be just (a proportion of) the horizontal component of the initial velocity (reduced because of the drag)?

__________________
"Love justice, you who rule the world" - Dante Alighieri
Register to Reply
Register to Reply Page 1 of 2: « First 1 2 Next > Last »

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

agua_doc (1); Anonymous Poster (6); Cardio07 (1); Comrade Col. Clamrod (6); CUTiger (1); dadw5boys (2); DCaD (2); Electroman (10); EnviroMan (18); JohnDG (14); Kilgore Trout (1); LG_Dave (5); logix101 (8); MrChevy (5); NiCrMoNoMore (1); ozzb (1); Sparkstation (4); TVP45 (9); U V (2); user-deleted-1105 (1); user-deleted-9 (1); Vandarye (1); vicini (1)

Previous in Forum: Pneumatic metric fittings   Next in Forum: What would be your best choice for a survival weapon?

Advertisement