New technology that cuts appliances power consumption upto 30 percent

Could you provide a link so we can have a look.

The link is www.sentienteci.com

joat: this sounds like the device N.A.S.A. developed 20 years ago! power saver, it just ok nothing special, if it saves power, what are you losing? perry

I agree. It was called a power factor controller, among other names. These devices received considerable marketing, but were almost exclusively for 1-phase motors. Generally they did what they claimed to do, with power savings depending on the % load on the motor. Since typical engineering design has the motor a little over-sized, there usually is room for savings. The original patent was owned by NASA (if I recall correctly) and then licensed to the various manufacturers.

--JMM

I read a report of something similar in an electronics magazine a while back...possibly the same thing (the link says sod all about how it works.)

The article I read said it basically turned down the volts to the minimum supply rating which may be say 10% lower than what is coming down the wires...It might have had some load sensing that let through full power if the load appeared to need it.
Hardly rocket science but it did save power ..so may be it counts as pocket science.

Del

Still probably saves less than just turning off the compu

It looks interesting but I am having difficulty finding the US patents they state on their website (US60/959,364 and US60/959,365). A search thru http://www.patentstorm.us/ and a web search turned up nothing.

Can anyone find a link to the patent so we can actually see what the device does (the marketing info on the site is not very helpful).

Is there another US patent database that I am not aware of?

I will reserve my judgment until I can see some more details, but it sounds like a single phase motor start switch I designed and commercialised a few years back using a Triac or SCR electronic switch as the switching element.

patents applied for but not yet granted often won't show in the data bases...

Could the circuit chop the power off for short periods of time. If it could shut off the power to the motor for very short periods of time, very fast, the average voltage would still read correct. Less off time when under full loads. More off time when light loads.

How could the circuit tell the difference between a 1 hp motor at half load, and a 1/2 hp motor at full load though?

This is going to require a bit more investigation but, at first sniff, it smells a little funny.

Because they give no details about their product, I can only judge based on what I observe on the website. Here is what I notice:

They present four "testimonials". The first two--despite being reportedly submitted by two different people--have the same format and use many of the same terms within a given context. This gives me the impression they were written by the same person.

The third "testimonial" is from a company called GPX2 (http://gpx2inc.com/). Among the products offered by GPX2 is a device similar to the one in question. There are some things on this site that are suspicious as well but, again, will require more investigation.

The fourth is from a company called Articmaster. I haven't looked that one up yet, but I noticed a product on the GPX2 site named Articmaster.

I don't know yet whether any of this stuff works or not, but I've been left feeling very suspicious given the way it is presented. When I have more time, I will probably look into it a little more.

Once more into the breach, and inless there is a process other than the voltage change going on I have a problem. I watched the video, I would much rather see the demonstration done with a loaded motor.

I would say it might be possible to reduce the energy use of a unloaded motor. A unloaded motor pulls a surprisingly high percentage of the full load rating of the motor . I normally do not check amp draw of a motor with nothing attached to it, but I would guess it's about 70% of rated load amps. It wouldn't be any big trick to reduce the voltage significantly to an unloaded motor and see a reduction in power usage, basically there's nothing to slow it down, so there's no reason for the amp draw to go up.

I mostly work with three phase motors it has been my experience that the motor will draw the energy it needs to do its work or die trying. If the supplied voltage is on the low of specs for the motor, the amp draw goes up, blowers , and compressors don't slow down in low-voltage situations, they may fry but there is no appreciable change in rpm.

It seems some others have been doing the same thing I have, looking for information on this device and nobody's had any luck.

A motor running unloaded will draw about 20 to 30% full load amps. No-load current is for magnetization and to overcome friction and windage.

You are correct about lowering voltage. As voltage decreases, torque decreases therefore current increases. In the case of this product it is difficult to know for sure at this point, but I think they are saying that this device reduces voltage with decreasing mechanical load on the motor. This is what I gather from the GPX2 testimonial.

Incidentally, I just noticed that the guys over at GPX2 have a motor running at unity power factor (based on their "collected" data). Damn, I want one of those. That is what they need to be selling.

You may be right, I am a little addled but but I swear the last one I checked was pulling in excess of 50%.however I will concede the point, it's that or I have to go pull the belt off the air compressor. I think were in agreement that this certainly requires further investigation, and I don't believe that is the sweet smell of success that you alluded to in a previous post, I have a feeling I better find my hightop rubber boots.

PS: I will have to check in to the over unity electric motors, unfortunately I will not have time tomorrow. I recently installed an HHO, firestorm sparkplugs, and weighted hubcaps on my wife's car, so I'm sure I'll be busy removing gas from her tank tomorrow , so that it does not go stale.

Per chance, is their motor a synchronous motor? They can run at unity or better.

No, not a synchronous machine. At least I've never seen a 240V, single phase synchronous motor used in a residential air conditioner. I could be mistaken though; been known to happen.

My point in mentioning it in a previous comment was that the "collected data" appears to be fabricated by someone with at least knowledge enough to know that P=VI. He just forgot the cosθ.

Not sure I like the "unity or better". I know what you mean; assuming the "or better" part equals "leading".

are u talking about inverters.. pls write more details...

Scroll down to "Savaplug" ; http://www.doctorenergy.co.uk/acatalog/Power_Control_Devices.html

Hi Kris,

Do you use one of these power savers, or do you know/think that they would do as they say on the tin?

Regards

Hi HydroScot,

I came by a gadget very similar to the plug I mentioned. It's like a normal 3-way adaptor, but one of the holes is for a master plug. My system box is plugged into the master hole. When I turn off windows, the gadget notices the drop in current draw and turns off power to the other 2 outlets. It saves me turning off individual peripherals, and hasn't caused me any grief. It has some surge-protection built in, and can be used with a socket distribution board. Presumably it wastes some current (the device in my link was quoted as .4 watts), but that's better than a multitude of glowing standby lights. Payback time on such a thing is debatable (depends what you have plugged in), but that's not really the point - saving electricity is good in itself. Hitting the off switch/s on the wall is clearly better, but I often dash out at short notice so the thing is handy. I'm not sure where the one I have came from (it has "e-on" as a logo and came as a freebie under one of those Govt. energy saving things, but I think I've seen them in Homebase or similar approx 18 - 20 quid) but I'm tempted to find another for the TV/Video etc. In summary I'd say "thumbs up, good gadget" from my experience. Chat up an elderly neighbour and you could probably sort out some low-energy light bulbs for them and said socket for you.

Kris

Check this link : http://www.eonenergy.com/At-Home/Going-Green/Energy-Efficiency-Products/Energy-Saving-Appliances/go-green-powerdown.htm

Hello Kris

At least some of that stuff advertised on that link is useless, except at parting the credulous with their hard-earned wallet contents.

<"....The EPS 128 Fuel Saver is a fuel economiser and pollution reduction device which utilises magnetic hydrodynamic technology to improve the combustion of hydrocarbon fuels. Mostly, engine combustion is incomplete due to the molecular clusters of hydrocarbon fuel. In normal cases, only about 70% of the total burnt fuel provides the real power, with 30% of the fuel wasted and carbonised.

The EPS fuel saver is the solution to this problem. When the fuel is passed through the fuel saver, the hydrocarbon molecules are temporarily ionised and create positively aligned molecules (P.A.M). The ionised hydrocarbon fuel results in a complete combustion when in contact with the negative oxygen (air-fuel mixture).

The growing population of motor vehicles contributes to air pollution worldwide. Our field trials clearly indicate that the Fuel Saver can help in reducing up to 30% of carbon and other toxic emissions.....">

So if they advertise that product, they didn't bother checking it out beforehand.

Kind Regards....

Hallo Microman,

This sounds interesting. If you do find anything more about it, please pass it to me at nach_sam@yahoo.com. In the meantime, I shall be on the look out for more details.

Thanks,

Nachi

Here, you write that you "have found a technology." In another posting, you write that this technology was developed by "a couple guys you know" and complain that no one is willing to test it. What exactly is your connection with the company promoting the device?

I am willing to test it. Have these guys send me one, and I'll test it and report upon it. Just email me through CR4.

I don't know about this system but it seems a lot like a unit I have tucked away in the shed. It was given to me by a guy who tried o commercialise it here in Mallorca but as he didn't speak Spanish he didn't really stand a chance!

It works not unlike a normal soft start (not a VFD) but it actually detects the pf of the load and reduces the input power by pwm methods to bring the pf up to close on one. This will have a power saving function but more importantly it will reduce peak currents as the total load on a site will likely be from under loaded motors with the consequent low pf.

I did test this at the time with my own meters and scope and it seemed to do pretty much what it said on the box. A coincidental benefit was that it acted as a soft start anyway as it needed this to "learn" the motor characteristics (from their blurb)

I'll try to fish it out and see if any web info is available.

Chas

The Microman

To whom ever would like to evaluate this product please go to www.sentienteci.com and submit a request with your info and then put that this is in reference to the CR4 discussion. They agree to send out a limited quantaty of samples. All they request is that you submit a formal evaluation back to them .

So if you are serious and want to try it out please send in a request thru their website and as I said before make sure you mention CR4 discussion.

And thank you for all of your reply's.

The Microman

I also come across gadget like this. The salesman told me that, i have to just put this gadget in any plug of my house, i will get @30% savings.

When i asked to prove it technically, he told me that it is due to power factor correction.

He also showed some Electricity bills of customer who instaaled the stuff. Cost of it is INR 1200/-. Also,he is promoting the product through chain marketting.So it is useless to keep faith.

From The Microman

The Micro Plug is not a power factor correction device and you need one for each appliance because it will only work on the motor .If it senses aresistive load then it pass full power thru because if you cut the load on a resistive load you drop the effectiveness of the circuit.

As i said if you would like to evaluate it please go to thier website and say that you are from the CR4 discussion .

From The Microman

Hey guy's I thought you wanted to evaluate this device but they say no one has requested a sample.

Whats up no taker's?

They will not charge you for the sample all they wish from you is a formal reply of what you think.

I was waiting to hear your evaluation.

Hello Microman:

A look at a previous post will show that I'm on record as being skeptical. However I would be interested in testing the device. My only problem with setting up a test is that I have found no explanation on how the device works. To do a scientifically valid and impartial test will require some equipment I do not currently possess, and therefore some capital outlay. It would be helpful if you could provide specific details on how the device is reducing energy consumption. This would not only help me in determining the practicality and costs of the experiment, it also might encourage others to investigate the claimed energy savings.

A valid test is going to require a lot more than just plugging a refrigerator into the device. Without a valid explanation of what the device is actually doing I'm sure there are many others thinking the same thing I am, why should I spend time and money just to prove something doesn't work.

A problem I have is that the power consumption of a fridge would be very difficult to isolate from the gross meter reading, given variations in temperature affecting both fridge consumption and use of heating appliances. There is also the (relatively) random use of an electric oven and other high-wattage appliances to be considered, the consumption of which would, in the short term, swamp any observable savings from the DUT.

A meter of some sort would be needed to assess the fridge usage, and the test would have to be made over a long time period (to allow for ambient temperature variations), with the DUT switched in and out of circuit, and results recorded.

Hello John:

I thought I'd just get your opinion on the potential to experiment to test the device. I was thinking of using the motor to drive a car alternator connected to resistive the load. I could use a watt meter to check the actual power usage of the motor, while holding the output load constant. I'm sure a 30% difference we show up without difficulty, I'm concerned however that the apparatus would still have too many variables such as belt slippage, and the effects of temperature variation on the alternator performance to be accurate enough to consistently show smaller changes in efficiency. Any ideas or opinions would be helpful.

Sounds like a good idea. You should be able to eliminate belt slippage by using a toothed belt - but a V belt would probably be OK, as long as the load wasn't too high. Gears, or even direct drive, would (obviously) also get around the problem.

I wouldn't have thought a few degrees temperature difference either way would change the alternator performance that much - 'tho I haven't looked into it.

To be a realistic test, I guess you'd have to make the load seen by the motor about the same as a fridge pump motor sees - whatever that is!

If you could do a lash-up without too much hassle, you could just run it for a while, recording the input & output once an hour to see what sort of variation you get over a day, to see whether it's worth pursuing.

I have a dehumidifier that is within the capability of the Micro Plug unit and also have a humidifier. So, in a phenomenal waste of energy, I plan to both humidify and dehumidify a room, recording the amount of water generated by the dehumidifier, as well as the watt, power factor, amp and voltage readings.

But first, I did a little experimenting with my lathe. In the process, I found that the wiring to my lathe (and probably other things in my shop) is reversed, with the hot (black) wire being energized when the switch is turned off. I traced the wiring to the switch box, where it is correctly color coded. Tomorrow, I'll have to probe further. These miswirings have the potential for being lethal, so if nothing else, just testing this device has helped keep me alive.

The device works as expected, in the sense that it reduces voltage to the motor when the motor is lightly loaded, and increases voltage when it is more heavily loaded. The motor on my lathe is rated 1/4 horsepower, but actually draws 5 amps under load, and 4 amps while just spinning and not cutting. When the motor is unloaded, the voltage drops (from 120) fairly quickly to 100 or so, and then drops more slowly to 90 or a little less. Loading the lathe (by a method I will not describe, but which was only slightly safer than grabbing the chuck with a gloved hand) brings the voltage and current up to about the same values (5 amps, 120 V) with or without the device.

Given that the voltage and current are the same with and without the device for a heavily loaded motor, it seems that we should expect no difference in power consumption, under that condition. Under the lightly-loaded condition we'll need to look at a watt meter to see the effects of reactive power.

My work does not usually require a watt meter, but it would be convenient to have one later in one of my current projects, so I ordered one. It will be interesting to see what it can reveal.

Thank you for your effort. Perhaps it would work better controlling the power used when generating hydrogen.

Hello Ken:
Thanks for doing the test you saved me from getting a watt meter. From the looks of the results it isn't a complete scam, however not too practical. The lathe when unloaded should've demonstrated the maximum potential savings in the real world.

I was initially thinking that the device might be useful for refrigerators and AC units as their load varies with temperature, however if you only got 7% on an unloaded antique lathe , without a doubt the savings would be smaller on newer refrigeration equipment.

PS: A long long time ago I did a little driving for Watkins motor lines. Two things that come to mind. 1. The Atlantic terminal was a major pain to get in and out of.

2. Owning a humidifier in Atlanta , brings doubts about your sanity, are you sure it's not a bilge pump, when I was there there was no shortage of humidity.

Dual V belts and a cooling fan. You should be able to use the alternator output to power the cooling fan. Just take that load into your calculations.

Hi Microman,

I just ordered one to test. I'll let you know how it turns out.