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Anonymous Poster

Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/15/2008 11:46 AM

Recently our work got a full tank of heating oil (kerosene) approx 1200 litres. After about a week the heating system started playing up, and the burner quit working. The plumber replaced the burner but still couldnt get a flame, everything that can be replaced has been by him and another guy looked at it and has come to the same conclusion, it is deffinatelt not the heating system its self cause when the burner was tried with oil from another tank it fired up first time, the company contacted the oil company but 3 other premises got from the same lorry that day and they have had no problems with their heating.(i seen the lorry delivering it)

The plumber says the oil is "flat" and wont burn and could have been sabotaged, could something have been added into the tank by somebody to ruin the oil, some sort of chemical etc?

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#1

Re: Flat home heating oil??

09/15/2008 1:08 PM

Hi Guest,

I'm not sure but on my opinion the "best " and simplest inhibitor for heating oil is the water. It could be delivered to your tank by mentioned lorry. Simply you had a not so good luck to get this stuff in more significant proportion than other consumers. Once the fuel had been upload water and kerosene were uniformy mixed that allowed your heating system to be operable [more or less]. Then after water had been settled down it turned your heating off. I would advice you to carry out a chemical test.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Flat home heating oil??

09/15/2008 1:46 PM

Hi I dont think its water in the tank as it would bead if a small amount was poured on the ground, this didnt happen. Thats why they suspect some sort of chemical was added, i dont think they will go to the expense/hassle of getting a test done. Thankyou for replying :)

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#3

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/15/2008 9:04 PM

You mentioned that you ran the burner on oil from another tank. What about bringing some of the questionable oil to the burner that is running on the good oil? Does it cause that burner to quit?

What about a simple oil powered lamp? Under controlled conditions, determine the flame from the good oil, and the questionable oil. If the flame is different, the oil is different. Read the temperature of the two flames with an accurate IR scanner. This will give you some ammunition to go back to the supplier with.

another way to get your value from the fuel oil is to remove it from the tank, and add it to the other tanks that have good oil, in small ratios. It can be added to diesel powered trucks also, again in low ratios.

As a last resort, there are fuel polishers around that remove fuel from large storage tanks that have old or questionable quality fuel. By running it through filters, they are able to return it to quality fuel again.Good luck.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 3:36 AM

Thanks Bob

Yes when the old oil is used to run another boiler it wont work it cant get the desired flame, this causes the burner to time out and lock up

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#11
In reply to #4

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 1:16 PM

It sound like incinerator machine or water boiler machine to me, if it's use kerosene for combustion then use waste/ old oil after that, it should be use air pressure to burn waste/old oil, you should check the air pressure it should be 6 kg/cm3.

if you only use waste/old oil for combustion it should be at least 2,2kg/cm3 pressure for combustion.

Usually if the machine use oil/ kerosene for combustion, it should be a heater at oil tank (not at kerosene tank), check it first, if there's no heater, try to warm the old oil before used for the burner machine.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 1:27 PM

Yes it might be oil[even not used], it might be diesel. But there had been said that heating system was quite operable for a week. I'm not aware how long time is needed for multi-fraction oil blend to be settled?

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 1:59 PM

Believe me sir, i have experience about it about 1 month ago but at a tanker ship,same problem, with the incinerator and boiler that have the same tank of waste oil, if there's a heater at the tank, it must be not to shut down the heater power to keep waste/old oil warm.

As my experience, i install the heater about 100cm length at the waste/old oil line out pipe ( it's about 2-3 inch diameter pipe ) before to the burner machine so the oil fast to be warm before get burned, not for a long time to warm a 1200L oil tank.

It's a little different with diesel machine, it use a high voltage transformer to make about 15-20 second electricity spark to burn the oil, after that the oil is burn by themselves.

The oil will burn because of a high enough pressure to make them to be "gas" so its easy to burn.

If the waste/old oil is too cold, it cannot be burn even with a very high pressure, because they can not be "gas".

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 2:07 PM

I do believe you and here is a good reasonable point of what you said.

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#5

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 8:19 AM

If you have acess to oil analsis at your job, give a sample of this fire proof oil to the lab and see what they find.

Realy all you can do is blend it and burn it off.

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#6

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 8:24 AM

Sugar would gum up filters and orifices, but that doesn't sound likely. Water, having apparently been ruled out, leaves few possibilities. Maybe a laboratory analysis to determine what is actually present will be necessary. But it won't be cheap or quick...

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#7

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 10:18 AM

Have you rechecked with the other recipiants of this product? Perhaps their tanks were less empty, and their bad delivery was diluted more by the remaining oil they had.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 12:56 PM

Good point.

Also, did the original poster actually talk to the other customers, or was it just said by the oil deliverer???

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 1:09 PM

True, but I've never heard of "flat" heating oil...what could cause such a symptom, regardless of the source? Knowing that might lead to a potential source.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 1:13 PM

I do not know what to say about sabotage issue, but whatsoever had been planted there it would be considered as quite perspective thing for firefighters .

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#15
In reply to #9

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 2:09 PM

Could it have run out of gas?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 2:17 PM

No, it not need gas, but warm oil with pressure come out at about 0,7mm hole, the oil will be "gas".

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#17
In reply to #15

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 2:19 PM

I do not know could it, but have your heard ever about Zepter bathroom where everybody could bath and shower out of water?

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#21
In reply to #17

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 8:31 PM

No, I have not.

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#18

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 3:01 PM

Just go to your local auto parts store and buy the fuel additive used for fuels contaminated with water. I am not sure what you would call it there. I have used alcohol in the past with good results. Just be careful. Depending on the water content, the fuel additive should work out fine.

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#19

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 3:28 PM

I have designed and had to troubleshoot many fuel oil systems in the Canadian arctic. Based on what you described, here would be my thoughts:

1. Did you receive the correct fuel? Based on your observation that you received a tank refilling, then a week later trouble starts, it may be that for the last week you burned the last of your old fuel. If the new fuel is lighter than the old, it would float on top of the old until the old is drawn out of the tank. The filler may have confused or not caed about giving you a lighter diesel or jet fuel for the kerosene you described (it all smells the same).

Gravimetric bulbs are cheap and readily available to check the specific gravity of the fuel you received and the "good" fuel you describe from another source. Having too light of a fuel will change the atomization charecteristics of the burner nozzles and flood the burner with too much fuel.

2. Have you checked the piping and tank outlet. You may have received a load of "gunk" with the fuel. Rust, mud, particulates, dead mice, whatever, may be partially choking the fuel flow from the affected tank.

3. You may have received old fuel from the supplier. Kerosene, diesel and jet fuels do oxidize with time. It leads to a heavier residue fuel and waxy build-up in the fuel. It will be too thick (viscous) to atomize properly. If so, take the tank contents out of service and blend it into good fuel at a rate of no more 1:20. This will allow you to burn old fuel without adversely affecting the overall performance.

Good luck!

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 3:50 PM

Welcome aboard! That sounds like the most probable solution so far (voted you a "good answer" on the strength of that!) proposed.

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#22
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Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/16/2008 11:44 PM

Ooh... i see... He just need a good answer to be a new member of CR4, not a solution.

Allright then i just want to say," welcome to be a new member of CR4."

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#23
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Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/17/2008 6:07 AM

??? His answer may or not BE a solution, but at the very least, it sounds possible/probable, thus a "GA" vote. And you're fairly new too, so WELCOME ABOARD!

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#24

Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/17/2008 8:18 AM

Is it the correct oil? Did a delivery of the wrong oil blend with the remaining correct oil in the tank over the course of the week? If the burner is designed for kerosene, was gas-oil delivered instead?

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#25
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Re: Kerosene Heating Oil Goes "Flat"?

09/17/2008 11:33 AM

I'm with you on this one PW....

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