Faster Than The Speed of Light! I've Found It.

Nice try - but the flash is always a bit quicker than the camera shutter.

They are two separate events - flash, then picture taking

Are you saying the flash begins before the shutter opens and stays on until after it closes?

Depending on what you mean by 'picture taking', this may be wrong or incomplete.

For a mechanical shutter, there must be at least three events: shutter open, flash, shutter close.

The flash isn't just a bit quicker, it is waaaay quicker. The last I heard, the flash duration is of the order of 0.0001 second. For any consumer camera, the flash propagation time can be considered zero, so the photosensitive surface must already be uncovered at the time the flash goes off.

Now for common electronic cameras, I'm not certain, but I don't believe there is a shutter at all. I'd be very interested to know how 'exposure time' is handled in electronic cameras...

Imagine the structural integrity of your eyelids subjected to a sudden acceleration to allow it to move as you stated...

It presupposes your eyes were open in the first place.
Personally I try to open my eyes as little as possible, I don't want to wear 'em out...zzzzzzzz

Del

This effect is easily explained by quantum physics.

Your eyelids - in fact everyone's eyelids - are made of tiny little bits of matter. (This applies only to matter-based individuals, of course). Everyone knows that matter exists not as definite little pieces, but as a sort of "smear" of energy that relies in large part on probability as to how it manifests.

From the double-slit experiment, we know that by trying to quantify the position of a given thing we inadvertently collapse the probability waveform and create an outcome. In the same way, before you take the picture your eyelids are both open and closed and at all possible positions in-between. In fact all the bits that compose your eyelids are at all possible positions in the universe. But once you take the picture the probability collapses and to all observers it appears that your eyelids are closed.

The simple solution here is to take the picture but don't look at it. With the outcome unknown, that should take care of the problem.

But if I took 4 pics wouldn't at least one of them show my eyes open. I'd take a dozen pics but by then I'd probably be blind.

But are not my eyes more likely to be open when probability collapses? They are open most of the time except when asleep, although I don't really know as I never looked at myself while sleeping, but I'm sure my wife would have said something after all these years.

You may fine that your eye's are exposed over your eye lids. In that your reaction time to closing them was faster than the shutter speed. So the picture is of both open and closed.

The picture does not show that.

The shutter is open for 1/30 second, that is 33 millisecond.

The flash light is not triggered unless the shutter is open, that is the reason of the flash, to illuminate the subject WHILE the shutter is open.

Now, the shutter makes a noise, a click that your audio system perceives, and amplifies the signal. Your CPU will analyse the signals, and begins an "un-thought" event, your eyelids will cover your eyes. Remember, it is involuntarily. It is the same like two equally fast pistoleros on Main St. The one who draws first, dies, because the other one acts in an "animalic" way, not a volitive action.

Try to put some carrots in your ears to muffler the noise, and I bet that you will be blinded for a few seconds.

Talking of carrots Del & my fellow CR4 members & guests...

I will try to read in to your mind through computer (Asian mystic power!)

You will have to first follow what I ask you now (note the answer is SIX and you should answer loud & clear.. so that I can hear your voice)

(1) What is 3+3 =

(2) What is 2 x 3 =

(3) What is 1+5 =

(4) What is 2+4 =

(5) What is 4+2 =

(6) What is 2 x 3 =

(7) What is 5+1 =

(8) What is 6+0 =

(9) What is 3+3 =

(10) What is 2+4 =

(11) What is 1+5 =

(12) What is 2 x 3 =

(13) What is 3 x 2 =

(14) What is 1+5 =

Now QUICK think of a vegetable

...

..

....

You thought of CARROT, didn't you?

the only thing worse than a picture with my eyes closed would be a picture with carrots in my ears. How silly would that look?

There are people who would do anything for a scientific experiment... And, I bet, you don't have any picture of you, with a vivid color around your face.

The shutter in a digital camera's makes no noise at all. The sound you hear is added artificially, and can be changed, our shut off completely in the setup.

Than the "only" explanation left is that he blinks at the move of the finger on the shutter trigger, which he takes for the trigger of a Magnum

I agree with you.

The closing of the eyelids is a conditioned response that was learned through previous experiences with flashes from a camera in association with the clicking of the camera mechanism.

GA and right on the button (as usual).

He should read his camera manual, or maybe the interpreter forgot to translate that bit!!

Every manual comes in three or four languages these days. If your language isn't one of them then you probably don't need a camera.

In this case there was only one flash

Correct - and a "Good Answer". The mention of shutter sound by another response was in the right region, but just off track. Not to mention that the relative speeds are wrong for sound vs. light propagation (think of lightning and thunder).

I am responding to an anonymous posting to demand an explanation (expecting the right guest's answer)

I mentioned the sound of the shutter as a possible cause of the blinking. In an ambiguous way you say:

The mention of shutter sound by another response was in the right region, but just off track. Not to mention that the relative speeds are wrong for sound vs. light propagation (think of lightning and thunder).

Why was it off track? And, may I ask, why are you mentioning the lightning and thunder? To show that their speed are different? Well, you did but...for a subject situated at 6 feet from the camera, the sound travels in about 6 millisecond from the camera to the ears of the subject. As I mentioned before, the shutter is opened for 33 millisecond, and the flash is produced within this time window, leaving enough time for the eye, in a reflex action, to close.

Those anonyms!

P.S. Are you the poster of the answer #1?

There was no mention of the shutter speed, so you can not assume 1/30sec. Even if you do, under most circumstances, the majority of the image is created by the light from the flash, so the effective exposure time is the duration of the flash - nowhere near enough time for the eyelids to close.

If the ambient light was bright and the exposure long, then there should be multiple eyelids: one image of them open (caused by the light from the flash), possibly a blur during the eyelid closing time, and another image of them closed (caused by the ambient light after the eyelids closed).

To the Original Poster: show us the picture!

If you believe that your eyelids can close faster than the speed of light, then I have some swamp-land in Utah to sell you.

Or a great bridge, a classic really, in Brooklyn.

j.

"When I look at my picture my eyes are closed." How can you look at a picture when your eyes are closed?

"the picture taken by the camera shows my eyes closed." That's better...

"How did my eyes sense the flash before the light got there?" They didn't.

"I have someone take a picture of my face with a digital camera and a flash." This may imply a flash that is not part of the camera, and therefore not synchronized to it. So the person takes the picture when he/she sees the flash. The response time of a finger (to take the picture), is considerably longer than the response time of an eyelid, so by the time he/she takes the picture, the eyelids are closed.

The flash was long gone when the picture was taken. The image was not generated by the flash. I call that a trick!

I'm glad you managed to figure it out. After 30+ people you are the first to have a need to correct my sentence structure.

Anyway I have found the answer I believe. When the button on the cameera is pressed the flash goes on for a short period of time. There is a pause and the shutter opens for a brief period of time. The length of pause between the beginning of the flash plus the shutter speed are less than the duration of the flash. During the pause my eyes closed. The flash remained on until after the shutter closed. Case solved

Your answer:

NO WAY, unless you are using an old-fashioned magnesium flash bulb. The duration of an electronic flash is of the order of 1/10,000 of a second, unless I'm seriously mistaken. I'm virtually certain it takes a few milliseconds for the eyelids to close. If they closed in a millisecond, they would produce an audible sound!

Are you absolutely certain it was a single flash?

See my post #32 for another possible explanation.

Please specify whether it is the built-in flash of the camera, and give us the lighting conditions, camera settings, and camera-to-subject distance. The make and model of camera might also give us a clue.

Definitely a single flash because then he switched his camera to a double flash to see if it helped.

Could it simply be possible that (not consciously) you sensed the trigger-finger about to press, and your eyes (involuntarily) closed to avoid the flash, so that in fact your eyes did close before that flash was fired ?

Is it that far-fetched ?

The classic "my eye-sight is faster than C because I can instantly see galaxies at the far end of the universe" just might be an appropriate reminder here...

The human mind is expert at making all kinds silly absurdities, sound perfectly logical.

Don't listen to it. It's only your mind, not an oracle .

"

"The human mind is expert at making all kinds silly absurdities, sound perfectly logical."

Quantum mechanics, anyone?

Some cameras have a flashing light just before the shutter opens. This is to reduce the "red eye" effect. The flashing light allows for the pupils to contract so that less light will reflect back off of the retina.

You closed your eyes during this "red eye" reduction sequence in anticipation of the brighter flash.

there was no flahing light

How do you know? your eyes were closed!

The answer is most likely that you are "reading" visual cues from the body movement of the person operating the camera and blinking in anticipation of the flash. The way to test this is to have someone take the picture using a remote cable and standing out of your vision.

The real culprit may be this!

I give the credit to wikepedia

Some cameras' flash exposure measuring logic fire a pre-flash very quickly before the real flash. In some camera/people combinations this will lead to shut eyes in every picture taken. The blink response time seems to be around 1/10 of a second. If the exposure flash is fired at approximately this interval after the TTL measuring flash, people will be squinting or have their eyes shut. Among others, Canon compact cameras (A590IS) suffer from this problem. One solution may be the FEL (flash exposure lock) offered on some more expensive cameras, which allows the photographer to fire the measuring flash at some earlier time, long (many seconds) before taking the real picture. Unfortunately many camera manufacturers do not make the TTL pre-flash interval configurable.

I think he was using a Canon...a rather expensive Canon, so maybe that is it. What did you look under in Wikipidi for the info?

Here is the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_flash

That is essentially what I have been trying to tell you since post #15!, although I neglected to mention the measuring function of the first weaker flash.

Apparently your eyes are more sensitive than many, so you close your eyes on the first flash and never see the second, which actually takes the picture.

I have a Cannon (PowerShot S2 IS, about $550 when originally purchased - considerably less now)) I rarely use it for pictures of people using flash, rather for documenting machine parts and products, wiring, etc. (like the honeycomb in my avatar)

Hey that's interesting...I've been turning down the exposure on my camera to photograph very light wood (Ash) without it just whiting out...I thought I kept seeing a little flash, but didn't know what it was, now I know I am a happy Cat.

Del

So what I think you are saying is that your eyelids traveled faster than the speed of light, yes? I believe you are experiencing a common phenomina assosiated with digital cameras. Unlike conventional cameras in which shutter speeds which are precision timed dictate the ammount of light that enters and exposes the film. With digital cameras the photograph is more a culmination of total light source both with and without flash in which the processor adjusts the light quality to produce an acceptable picture. Since it is using combined light this means what would be considerd the shutter action in older cameras must be lengthend which would result in over exposure on regular film. If however your eyelids did travel faster than the speed of light then it would have to be assumed that this occurs each and every time you blink and would also occure with a conventional camera.

Not to mention there would probably be some pretty serious effects on your eyelids. Like, first off they would age considerably slower than the rest of your body.