Previous in Forum: vibrating screen design parameters   Next in Forum: A war to end all wars.
Close
Close
Close
9 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Participant

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1

Recipe for Better Recycled Tire Rubber Mat

10/28/2008 8:21 PM

Hi sirs, I work at a tires recycling plant that makes rubber mats. Before the rarety of truck tires, we were having good quality mat (could warrenty better than five years). But now using different ratio of car tires and truck tires, our mats are degrading after a couples of months. It is like the polymerisation is not complete. Any ideas?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
20
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Interested in everything- see my Profile please APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - Member Hobbies - Musician - Autoharp and Harmonica Hobbies - Hunting - Member Hobbies - Fishing - Member

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Christchurch, (The Garden City), South Island, New Zealand
Posts: 4395
Good Answers: 230
#1

Re: Recipe for better recycled tire rubber mat.

10/29/2008 5:16 AM

Hello jgreg1

You don't give your Location or Country (easily done in your Member Profile and it auto-updates through all your Posts), thus general advice is given here.

When truck and car tyres were made years ago, they were always crossply, not the radials made these days.

The tyres were then hand-made, using a high proportion of natural rubber, no synthetic rubber.

The nylon addition was carefully measured also.

The proportion of Sulphur was greater.

The proportion of carbon added to the mix was greater than today.

Mixing was done in a "Bunbury Mixer" - see picture of the Bunbury mixing rollers here which kneaded the mixture until proper mixing was assured.

The early ply ratings were accurate, 10 ply being 10 actual cotton fabric plies, unlike these days where a 6 ply radial tyre may have only 2 actual plies.

The weave of the crossply tyre was diagonally cut, so the fabric ran in diagonals across the tread, from rim to rim.

The automatic crossply fabric cutter was designed right here in the Christchurch, New Zealand factory of Firestone, many years ago.

So the old car and truck tyres were thicker, stronger and lasted far longer than tyres do these days.

Of course, the tyres you are using may have been made in a Country which pretends to have proper Quality Assurance Controls in place, but does not really follow those procedures.

The resultant tyres are what you have: Thin, structurally weak with nylon fabric cords running parallel with the tyre circumference, less carbon black, less nylon, less natural rubber, less actual plies of fabric.

We use those rubber link mats here too, and I have noted that we in NZ have the same trouble as yourself.

It is not poor polymerisation, but insufficient Vulcanization which is part of the problem.

The old truck/bus crossply tyres took 2 hours 35 minutes cycle cure with partly wet steam for a typical 10.00" x 20" tyre, 2 hours 45 minute cycle for a typical 11.00" x 20" tyre.

The later thinner radial tyres are "cured" in a cycle around 45 - 50 minutes for the same size tyres.

So that's the reason the tyres just don't last: They are not made to last.

Here in Christchurch Firestone Factory all tyres used to have a serial number, made by the insertion into a slot in the mould of a pre-punched serial number, the serial numbers being consecutive, of course, and a record was made to check mileage obtained from a typical tyre.

It was discovered that small recipe alterations could enable a tyre to last well over 150,000 miles, but when Head Office was advised, the Christchurch factory was ordered to destroy the recipe details, as "We would only ever sell a set of tyres, perhaps two at most, to any car or truck.

The extra mileage was obtained by increasing the carbon black amount, then post-inflating to full pressure when the tyre was extracted from the mould, and immediately immersed in a cold water bath with the water being constantly replaced, until the tyre was cold.

This "fast cooling" altered the cross-linking obtained by the vulcanization process, the rubber being far stronger, although just as soft.

"Camelback" - The uncured rubber extrusion for retreads, was also made with the long-life recipe, with the same result after it was fixed to an old casing, and cured in a mould press, with the same post-inflation and fast cooling.

In those earlier days, it was common for a truck/bus tyre to be retreaded/recapped 10 or 12 times, car tyres 6 to 8 times too, a great saving.

What more can I say except that tyres these days are rarely recapped, except by the "Bandag" process, and often you will see a tread thrown from a modern recapped tyre - lethal if you are in the firing zone.

I trust that explains to you why the tyres and the consequent tyre mat materials just do crumble so easily these days in a "throw away" society.

Kind Regards....

__________________
"The number of inventions increases faster than the need for them at the time" - SparkY
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 20)
Power-User
Hobbies - HAM Radio - VE6LDS Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Canada - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Nuclear Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 284
Good Answers: 10
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Recipe for better recycled tire rubber mat.

10/29/2008 11:21 PM

I worked in a Firestone tire factory for a couple of summers, in the materials preparation area. We owned the banbury, the mills, and the tuber that extruded treads, sidewalls and camelback. Tires were made of a combination of natural and synthetic rubber plus a bunch of other things. Your post brought back many memories. Thank you for the trip down nostalgia lane.

__________________
Semi-retired systems analyst, part time Ham radio operator, full time grandfather.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#5
In reply to #1

Re: Recipe for better recycled tire rubber mat.

10/30/2008 10:02 AM

Thanks for the detailed answer.

It is good to know all this detail of tire manufacturing that many of the readers were unaware of, I am sure. I visited Dunlop manufacturing plant during my university days when we went on industrial tour but never got so much details. Watched the entire manufacturing process but not chemical addition etc.

Sure, why Firestone or others would manufacture such strong tires? They want us to change more often. I have no problem with that. After all they are in the business to make money and not for durability of the goods. If people wanted durable and good quality goods, they would have not made Walmart as big as it is now.

Have a blessed and fruitful day.

Regards;

Nadeem

10302008

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 79
Good Answers: 2
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Recipe for better recycled tire rubber mat.

10/30/2008 10:33 AM

I'm not convinced the throwaway society is better than the built-to-last society. The consequences of throwing stuff away at a faster rate is that there's way more garbage to deal with. This is a consequence that inherently doesn't manifest itself until it becomes a real problem, when it's perhaps impossibly difficult to address. Meanwhile, we think we have a higher standard of living, because a lot more people have incomes (it takes more people to make more crap to replace the crap that broke), but what we're really doing is wasting resources on making more and more crap, whereas we could be using those resources to solve problems such as what are we gonna do with all this garbage, or how can we feed and power this ever-accelerating population.

It's the result of thinking short-term instead of long-term: woo-hoo, we all got jobs making crap! The problem of cleaning up the mess can be dealt with by future generations, after I'm dead (prematurely, from the fat-pig lifestyle I've artificially been enjoying).

__________________
These little sayings down here are irritating. -- Me.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Recipe for better recycled tire rubber mat.

10/30/2008 10:57 AM

You are right on all accords.

If you live in USA, then you know that we are the most wasteful nation in the world and generate more "Crap" as you said than any one else. One example. I lived in Venezuela, Thailand and if the starter or the alternator broke down, we never got the new one but the mechanic repaired it. Most of the parts they repaired worked for years that I lived there. So was with the elctronics and they were repaired and worked just like before. Also it did not cost so much to repair those compare to what we pay here. We are the part chnagers and not the mechanics.

Yes, we are the throw away society and we can't help it no matter how much we complain or dislike it. When the baby is born, the wastage is unbelievable. The packings of the merchandise in the stores are big as the manufacturers want more space on the shelf. The packing is such hard and such difficult to open that gives the idea that the manufacture did not want us to open the packing, just buy it. That is a waste and the examples are many more.

I say, Ok, this is norm of life and tolerate it and bear with it and get over with it as things will not change just by complaining. You may call it cop out on my part but it is so peaceful to just ignore it and go with the flow.

Regards;

Nadeem

10302008

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Commentator

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 79
Good Answers: 2
#8
In reply to #7

Re: Recipe for better recycled tire rubber mat.

10/30/2008 11:23 AM

If you were to jump out of a tall building, the ride down would be peaceful also. Until the end.

(Don't get me wrong -- I'm not doing anything about it either. It would require a coordinated movement on the part of consumers to force a change by not cooperating with merchants of waste. I'm sure that will never happen.)

__________________
These little sayings down here are irritating. -- Me.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Recipe for better recycled tire rubber mat.

10/30/2008 12:09 PM

You are right on both acounts and I agree with you.

By the way, falling off the bldg does not hurt at all. It is the floor below that you meet hurts a lot.

Regards;

Nadeem

10302008

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
3
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 104
Good Answers: 3
#3

Re: Recipe for Better Recycled Tire Rubber Mat

10/30/2008 6:35 AM

Greetings from the former heartland of tire manufacturing in North America,Southern Ontario,specifically the golden horseshoe...Its amazing how tires/economic developement are related..I too had occassion to spend over a decade of my working for others for money in the rubber tire industry as a chemist..My thoughts on your problem(s) are multifaceted...First your binder system that is used to hold the pieces of recycled/already cured rubber may beinadequate to the task as you did say your proportion of car/truck tire recycled rubber has large variations...Secondly i suspect a much higher level of clays/silicas etc are in tires these days as its an excelllent way to save millions of dollars per large facility per year and still produce adequate(vs optimula easily obtainable)tires ..These increased loadings of inorganics only partially bound to the core polymers and at the microscopic level really only act as fillers of voids between entangled polymeric(organically linked)systems are likely a culprit in the breakdown of your product..At certain loading levels/with increased surface area exposed to frictional forces as in your mats the capacity of the fillers to act as tiny sandpaper to the surrounding matrix of softer polymers can not be overlooked..Add some virgin material to your mix with no added fillers and see if this does not improve your mat life ..Regards..Marty Wolf

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Recipe for Better Recycled Tire Rubber Mat

10/30/2008 9:50 AM

Radial tires have been the standard tire for over 30 years for cars. Radial truck tires have been the standard for over 20 years.

I think that if you have just starting to add truck tires to the mix that is the problem. A tire will continue to cure after it is put on the truck. The heat build from the heavy loads and the long mile makes the truck tire to become harder. You are mixing 2 rubber products, one ( car tire) that has low miles and low heat build-up, and the truck tire has more miles and has higher heat build-up.. You are using a product that already worn out.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 9 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); martywolf (1); Nadeem0430 (3); rocketsurgeon (2); Sparkstation (1); The_curious_one (1)

Previous in Forum: vibrating screen design parameters   Next in Forum: A war to end all wars.

Advertisement