Heat from the Motion of Magnets

I'm not sure of the intent of your question, but I'll give it a shot. The amount of work is about the same in each case provided we assume your "away" positions are far enough that there is essentially no attraction and the "near" positions are identical. Most of the heat generated will be from your body and the #2 case will likely require a longer-time physiological effort (the on-axis "throw" is usually greater), thus more heat. Is this what you're looking for? Are you by chance doing high speed movement?

Interesting signature, but an urban myth; bumblebees do satisfy theoretical equations for flight.

Yes, you have answered my question. Thank you. I am unclear about "most of the heat generated will be from your body". And yes, it is high speed movement. I'm pondering ideas to determine the best course of action before I build an experimental model. Although I will probably build several models to see which idea works best, if at all. I just wondered if there is a way to limit the heat buildup in the magnets to limit degradation.

The bumble bee thing is something I remembered from my high school physics teacher. He was trying to impress that what we think is scientific fact may be proven to be wrong. The world is flat ect...

Your high school physics teacher was not even wrong when he said that about bumblebees. Such nonsense causes others to waste their lives trying to build perpetual motion or free energy machines. Most of us who make a living in STEM already know that today's theory may be corrected tomorrow, but those corrections are almost surely only refinements, not contradictions. Generally, only nutty theories (which are not believed by many STEMs) such as cold fusion, super-water, and Laffer economics are ever proved completely wrong.

Anyway, you're saying that you're worried about surpassing the Curie temperature just from magnet motion? How many Tesla are these magnets? If they're that powerful, how do you keep them from demagnetizing themselves when they go to the "away" position? What is this thing?

Too true. They don't take into account conservation of energy. Nothing is free is it? As I said, I'm not an engineer, just a tinkerer.

I don't expect to reach Curie temperature, but I read on a thread here that heat caused by magnets interacting with each other will cause the magnetic force in the magnets to degrade. I just wanted to find out if there were a configuration that would decrease the effect. It makes sense that it would be the same for both scenarios.

No large magnets, a lot of small ones I think. LOL, keep in mind, I like to build useless things in my spare time. I don't have anything on paper yet. I design it in my mind until I can't find any problems, then paper, then build.

In truth, I'm curios how long these so called magnet motors run before the magnets loose their power. After all, they do work for a time. I just don't know how long, how fast they can turn, how much torque. In my mind I can't see that it will work very well, but I have to know. You don't have to tell me it's a waste of time, but it is a hobby.

Thanks for your input for my fools journey.

If you want to save the time and expense of building several models in the real world you can download FEMM freeware and build and analyze the magnetic, electrical, and thermal properties of your design.

It will take some time to learn to use, but you will learn much more this way and make many less mistakes.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~ijm451/finite/fe_resources/node167.html

Thanks, I'll give it a try. With any luck, I'll learn quite a bit.

Maybe I'm being really dumb, here, but I don't see where heat comes into this. Could someone please clarify?

John, John, John. Go get two five pound magnets - the kind you use to drag the bottoms of ponds for the golf putters you threw in there. I'll wait. OK. Got 'em? Now put one in each hand and one, lift them high; two, lower them to your side; one, up; two, down. Now faster. Faster. C'mon, really fast. Feel the warmth yet?

Hi Al,

Are we looking at eddy current losses?

regards

chas

It could be, I don't know enough about magnets to know if this happens and causes more heat buildup in the magnets. My original thought was that magnets passing perpendicular to each other might cause this, but not as much if they were moving together and apart along their n-s axis. I guess I just didn't know exactly how to phrase it.

Any thoughts?

I have several ideas on how to dissipate the heat, I haven't yet decided on which one to use. All have drawbacks. If push comes to shove I could always refrigerate the mechanism, I am an HVAC tech. But that would be counter productive.

I will have to research the 'hot' and 'cold' magnets, I have never heard of them.

Thanks for your input, a lot of useful information.

Using a single magnet and a superconductor, a virtual magnet would exist in the superconductor surface. Rotating the magnet would then rotate its "mirror image", producing the effect of two magnets rotating against each others' fields. The only difference being that the like poles would always pass each other. This would have an energy discipation approximately double that of the opposite poles passing. Taking thermal measurements off of the superconductor would be relatively simple because: 1) There are no moving parts to cause friction, and 2) the superconductor is held at cryogenic temperatures so any temperature rise would be attributable to energy imparted by magnetic field interaction.

Hi, Guest!

LIKE poles passing each other is not a problem, so long as OPPOSITE poles also pass each other, in order to create any interference possible by a complete rotation.

Perhaps if the (room-temp style)

• super-conductor magnets were lined up
• e.g. in a circle and
• a second row of magnets passed by them in a linear fashion using a uniform circular motion, and
• the lot housed in an insulated container with
• a very wide shaft
• whose bearings are outside the container,

the temp rise, etc. not only within the magnets but also between them, if any, could be measured using very sensitive measuring equipment.

This configuration would simplify the achievement of mechanical movement of magnet over magnet and allow for some speed control as well. The housing would be amagnetic, and removal of the exterior perimeter of magnets would allow for the measurement of things happening due to the magnetic lines of force "friction" through the air without the additional "friction" of lines through lines. In addition to measuring temperature change, one could also measure static electrical charges as they build up (if they do).

I don't know if there would be any actual results, so I wouldn't expect any; but as to WHY one would be interested in obtaining information about the possible effect of magnetic line motion on temperature etc., just call it scientific curiosity. Have you noticed the article on direct conversion of solar to thermoelectric semi-conductors in the Direct-2u Electrical Components Newsletter? Who would have thought of solar direct to thermoelectric without a little maverick research here and there? We know that the earth spinning through space goes through this phenomenon continuously, and have made observations with theories to account for the visible/measurable results. This simple idea might shed more information about that kind of thing as well. Thanks, lkwebb22, for thinking up the question.

Now we need a DIY person to build this thing and try it out.

Mark

No problem, I can think of off the wall questions all day. I would have thought someone would have looked at this in more depth before, maybe someone already has.

lol, you guys are starting to go way above my head.

Hi Guest,

I'm not so sure about the lack of "moving parts". Bascom Deaver did a paper back in the early 60s on flux pinning acting as an internal friction. I'm sorry that I don't have the reference; he probably wrote it with Fairbank if you want to look.

Hi Guru!

The lack of moving parts refers to the fact that a virtual magnet is created through Misner Effect in the superconductor. Of course the real magnet that produces it would have moving parts, the virtual magnet - by virtue of the fact it is only physically implied, would necessarilly have no moving parts (or any other parts for that matter). I'll look for the references you recommended. It is a facinating question even if there is no discernable application for it in the near future.

Simply put, if you pass a conductor through magnetic field it will generate a current. If that conductor is a block of material then there will be currents eddying around within the block. This energy will dissipate as heat. Note that the block has to be conductive, it may be magnetic but that is coincidental

Whether this will happen with your magnets depends on the conductivity of your magnets.

Chas

You hit the nail on the head I think. I had anticipated making all of the components within the range of the magnetic fields non conductive. The only conductive material would be the magnets themselves, I had missed that.

This is probably a stupid question given the nature of magnets, but is there such a thing as a non conductive magnet? Also I wonder if lamination would be possible with magnets, like transformers use to limit the eddy currents.

You have given me a lot to ponder.

Excellent information, thanks a lot!

I am an electrical consultant and your question is about the lectrical tech.if we move the magnet on other magnet then according the faraday law e.m.f (electromotive force produce in the magnet of contuctor) if this conductor is connect with circut the current follow in it. because of some proprities of conductor the conductor magenetise and this magnitise conductor cut his own flux because of it and eddy current prudced in this conductor whcih will oppose the current follow in it now two current follow on the conductor one is eddy current and other is load current and they oppose each other due to it heat produce it the conductor or magnet. for more information.

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