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heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/23/2008 9:13 AM

I am a 4th year HS student and still working on my investigatory project. i am planning to make a mobile phone charger but the energy source will be the heat coming from a burning charcoal or a boiling water. but i wonder how i can transform heat to electrical energy. will somebody help me? hope your reply will be as soon as possible. i need this badly. thanks!

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#1

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/23/2008 10:04 AM

I think what you would need is a seebeck cell. This works in a similar manner to a solar cell, but uses heat instead of light to produce an electric current. Also read the thread on thermoelectric thin film by philborg in this forum.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/25/2008 6:31 AM

hi. can you enlighten me further about the seebeck cell? thanks a million!

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#2

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/24/2008 7:33 AM

If you have access to one, and really want to do something creative, try a Stirling Cycle, free piston, engine, coupled to a 12 volt DC motor (like a Mabuchi). When you spin a DC motor, no matter how small, it generates a DC current. Use a storage cap, such as one of the new Mega-capacity caps, which are designed for low voltages, and low leakage, and put the output of the cap across and appropriate voltage regulator chip, and your heat-process generator will run anytime you can apply sufficient heat differential. If you can keep it cool enough, you can run a Stirling free piston on sunlight. Typically, it works best in a wood or coal fire, or in any flame stream (propane torch, lighter flame, etc., as long as the total thermal output is high enough). It does require a fairly steep temperature gradient between the hot and cold sides, though.


Mike

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/24/2008 8:23 AM

hi, sir mike. thanks for your quick reply. i hope you can enlighten me further about your suggestion so that i can try to do it and probably use it as our project. thanks a million! :)

jessica bodo, senior student, philippines

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/24/2008 10:28 AM

Jessica:

A Stirling Cycle free piston engine takes advantage of the heat-cold transfer phase of the kinds of gases used to run an air conditioner (freon of various types, alcohol, any other medium which readily transfers heat to/from itself, when pressurized or de-pressurized. Wikipedia shows this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine) for them, and How Stuff Works shows this (http://www.howstuffworks.com/stirling-engine.htm). Google videos have these as demos of the Stirling Cycle in many variants (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Stirling+Cycle+engine&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#)

(This link may break, as it is long. If so, google "Stirling Cycle Engine" and look for the google videos link.)

Finally, here is a source for ready-to-assemble Stirling Cycle kits, including steam driven, and several solar versions. (http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/stirling_engines.htm)

Note that it is possible to reverse the heat transfer direction of a Stirling Cycle engine, so that one might use a cold source (free flowing streams come to mind), with the hot side being ambient sunlight induced temperature. Again, as I noted earlier, all that is required is a fairly large temperature gradient.

Now on to the power generation side. Any permanent magnet motor (salvage one from your brother's battery powered car, for example) when driven by a mechanical power source, will deliver a useful DC voltage. It usually will not deliver a large amount of current (about 80% of what the batteries which powered it might deliver is probably a high limit), but for your purposes, it should do well. A motor designed to run at 6 VDC, at a no-load limit of 1000 RPM would probably deliver about 5.5 VDC out at the speeds you could get from one of the Stirling Kits, if you really pushed the Stirling for speed. Instead, it would be better to try to find a 12VDC motor. And for this purpose, since more capacity than you need is better than not enough, a larger frame motor (which usually indicates more power out, more current capacity, etc. and translates for your purposes to more current out at lower torque in, and more voltage at lower RPM) would be better. I would not try to operate an automobile windshield wiper motor, or anything of that mass, from one of these kits though, as I suspect you'd overwhelm the Stirling's available torque trying to drive the mass/internal resistances of the automotive motor.

Finally, for most cell phone chargers, a +5V Voltage Regulator chip, readily available online, which requires at least 6VDC in, and can handle up to about 18 volts in(some models can run up to 24, but for you to need that, even with a 12 VDC motor, you'd have to overdrive the motor a huge amount, probably destroying it in the process), with the regulator dumping the excess voltage as heat (above the 6 volt threshold) across a heat sink.

If you choose to charge a USB powered cell phone (many models, nowadays are powered/charged from USB ports on computers, and would be a perfect candidate for your experiments), +5VDC is all that is needed out, and the 5 volt regulator chip is perfect for the job. But for other models, you can get regulators online in many voltages, still cheaply. And adjustable regulators, though a little more complex and expensive, are also readily available.

A "SuperCapacitor" is also available online, and you can google for a source.

I googled everything I suggested to you, and found dozens of sources for both the operational theory of the device, and the device itself, online. The only exception to that statement is the 5VDC regulator, and I didn't google it because it is so ubiquitous, and I've used them for years, without EVER encountering difficulty in obtaining them online.

I didn't provide you ALL the links, because I wanted to leave you something to work on. I didn't try to draw the circuit, because despite all I know about how to use the pieces, I can't draw schematics online worth beans. I will give you this, assuming a +5VDC regulator:

SMPOut _DCMDriveshaft - Fm DCMotor Term + to +V on Capacitor to +V in on Reg

Fm DCMotor Term - to GND on Capacitor to -V in on Reg

Where SMPOut is Stirling Motor drive shaft out, and

DCMDriveshaft is the DCMotor Driveshaft

Couple these up physically, so that the output of the Stirling turns the DCMotor

and

DCMotor Terms are the solder or screw terminal tabs on the motor. Take your unfiltered, unregulated output voltage from them.

Finally, take your filtered (by the capacitor) and regulated (by the regulator chip) voltage to your USB connector from the +V out and Gnd pins on the regulator. It only has three pins, which are +V in, +V out, and Gnd. So it is simple to wire.

Google the USB Standard for the pinout on the USB device, and the only pins you'll need are for the plus and minus V, since you aren't designing for a USB signal. For minus V, use the GND pin output, and you should have no problem making the whole thing work.

Make sure to log back in here after you start on your project, and keep us posted. I'd love to know how its coming along. And if you have other questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Mike

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/25/2008 6:28 AM

hi sir mike.

thanks for your reply. this is a lot of help from you. thanks a million! uhm this project is very difficult but indeed very challenging. i will try to study and understand the whole thing so that our group will be able to perform it. thanks a lot! by the way, can you enlighten me further about the 'seebeck cell'? thank you so much!

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/25/2008 7:42 AM

Jessica:

I'll have to look into what a Seebeck cell is, before I can do that. I'm familiar with Peltier Junctions, but they are not power generators when exposed to extremes of temperature. Rather, they use power to cause extremes of temperature, and not very efficiently, at that.

Unless someone else wants to weigh in with the Seebeck Cell's description and use, I'll look into it, and get back to you. In the meantime, why don't you also google it. Who knows, maybe you'll teach me about them. That is how I learned much of what I know (not google, necessarily, but research in available sources, anyway), and is the best way for you to learn, also.

We'll talk again. Let me know what YOU learn.

Mike

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/25/2008 7:49 AM

Jessica, and all:

OOOPPPSSSS. Apparently, a Seebeck Cell IS a Peltier junction. Who knew? I just googled it, and among others, got this (http://makezine.com/15/seebeck/). Now, I'm VERY familiar with Makezine, having subscribed to it for the past three years, and I LOVE reading in it, but somehow, I missed this one. In fact, since it is volume 15, I hope to receive it soon, in the mail.

But in the meantime, Jessica, look this up, and the article should tell you a good deal on the subject, certainly pointing you to further sources.

I wish you the best, and am looking forward to hearing what you learn.

Mike

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/25/2008 3:00 PM

hi sir mike! thanks for the advise! uhm i have already printed that article and im already working on it. ill keep you updated about the development of our project. thanks a million AGAIN! :))

-jessica

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#10
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Re: heat to electricity or other investigatory prjects

11/25/2008 3:34 PM

Good work, Jessica! Ask your instructors about the truth of this sentiment, but to me, the best reward I can get from helping someone like you is to see you "pick up th ball, and run with it". And as an added bonus, to me, I also get to learn from you whatever you learn along the way. Every interaction thus benefits both of us, and makes you as much the teacher as me.

I'm proud of you. Keep on trucking.


Mike

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