Occupational Moral Dilema

Your response was just fine, no point in giving something away for free to someone who will simply copy your work to maintain his position. I am as well looking for work, and I try to sell myself as a 'common sense' consultant, because sense is not common.

I solve what some call problems, I call them a challenge, by applying common sense and what mother nature has done. I don't mind answering questions of this forum and others, but I am not a big fan of hand holding and providing an exact solution to a post.

We all have to make a living.

Hah!

And I am a digit head by trade and turn wrenches for fun; either on my house or on my sister's '36 International truck.

Get a job and I am looking for an old Power Wagon to restore and keep.

You would love my 'green' RV project, ground up build of an industrial luxury RV/toy hauler made of totally recycled materials, except where safety comes first. Still trying to find a suitable donor vehicle for the chassis diesel engine, I like the Oshkosh cab foward design but those chassis' are unobtanium. I would like to find a good used fire ladder truck.

I'd a thought a school bus was traditional? They can be found with dandy Cummins engines... and I totally sympathize as last night I was looking at this

Thanks for the link ...it is now bookmarked.

Very cool, I have also bookmarked the site.

The buss is so overdone as an RV, although it would provide a good chassis and there are a lot of them available. I could always fabricate my own Oshkosh style cab forward cabin or even cab over. Interesting twist to the approach, and much more fun when it comes down to it.

Time to search the used school bus market

Boy you guys are sure bringing back the '60s and '70s. I helped my dad build one of those in '63 so we could go to Disneyland and then lived in one off and on through my 'hippy years'.

That guy is right about that schoolbus smell but it's nothing to what 3 years on the road smells like.

I've got a vehicle that might interest you. It's not cab-forward and it's not diesel. It's a 48-53 Ford 1-1/2 to 2 ton farm truck with minimal rust. Still has the flathead but I dont know if it runs. Someone stole the 2 speed rear diff right out of the housing and the radiator is gone. Come and get it and it's yours.

Thanks for the offer, but the wheel base is too short, I am looking at a minimum 20 feet available on the box alone, something around the length of a 72 seat school bus. I want to be able to move my Defender 90 soon to be 100 with me in the back. that would be the toy hauler part. Since the last post I have been busy, already have the cab cage designed, replacement for the standard buss look. Probably be able to reuse some of the roof material, some of the side as well I can use the siding from the rear section where the 'garage' will be to fill in the standard bus windows. I hate that look, probably a hold over from school. now all I need is a bus

Ed,

I wish I could offer something in the way of employment.

I can offer an old Power Wagon, however. All it'll cost you is transportation costs. It is a '57 with military running gear and rated at 1 ton. It was running when I put it out to pasture 5 years ago. It has a 318 wide block (standard issue), 4 speed trans and an old bulletproof transfer case. With the 4/11 gears it averages 15 mpg.

It does need a lot of TLC and I've robbed a few parts but rust is not a problem.

if my new found friend doesn't want it I will take it, I love the power wagon. One very cool truck the power wagon.

I am two years out from new projects, the '36 International has been sitting for the last two as I lost my workspace and have spent all my time on the road.

But it sounds like I should visit your pasture!

Oddly, my International also has an off rear-end. The truck is standard, but he doesn't remember what he threw under the back when the original broke.

But I can assure you getting wheels that fit is a challenge - fortunately I remember how to do split rims.

Wheels are easy, I know a great wheel shop in Wichita Kansas that can make anything, great town Wichita, there seems to be a company there to fit any need you may have in the automotive restoration world.

Hello Shadetree,

I just got back to work this last month, If you need the Power Wagon removed let me know I will be looking for one. In all fairness I plan to put an Isuzu 6BB1 in it. I should be able to get over 20mpg then.

My problem is just getting back to work it will set for a year before I could do much to it. Still not in my field but a fair income for close regular work. The job will produce the capital to get my company up and going. I'm in sunny Burbank.

I also understand the offer was not made for me to accept. But if one does not speak up one can never be heard.

Brad

Brad

Well

If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door."

Milton Berle

crm

Sorry about your luck. Hit me last October and now I am using gorilla tactics to earn income on my own.

I am really not sure about your situation since you only gave a very cursory description, but you are entitled to earn a living. I usually approach situations where professional help from me is required by politely offering services in exchange for pay. I explain that I need to put bread on the table, too. However, I usually try to determine what they want and why right up front in a friendly way.

If they are willing to work with me, then fine. If not, then that's okay because I have other things to do.

Good luck with your search!!!

I applaud your gumption. I left the tech industry in what I now feel was an act of humility, guided by the hand of Providence.

I have come to learn that I often cannot tell a miracle from a catastrophe.

Like my GrandPa used to say, "Boy, you damn sure ain't gonna catch no fish without a line in the water."

I'm in the market for one of these:

Dodge_Powerwagon

If I could find one this nice, at the right price, I'd buy it on the spot.

Oh come on Bricky,

Getting your hands dirty is half the fun. And good luck finding one that nice.

If you have the $$ I can build it for you. Anything from restoration to hot rod to a 100 point truck, your choice. I also work relatively cheap since this is passion not vocation.

It is that "at the right price" part

That is a five figure truck there, dude

One of my fave places Power Wagon Classifieds

and a lovely example

Some very nice trucks on that site, some of those people live in a different dimension though. That beat to death yellow 6x6 for parts @ $1000.00, one has to wonder what color the sky is in his world.

Considering the current economic times, and this isn't going to change for a few years at best, now is not the time to be trying to get big money for a project truck. On the other hand, in a few months there will be some great bargoons out there.

You got it spot on...It never hurts to ask...(I've never got my face slapped yet)
If you don't ask you don't get.
There are planty of chancers who have blagged jobs they cant do. Why should we bail 'em out for free?
I don't mind helping those who help themselves, or giving them a nudge in the right direction. After all I've had plenty of help and ideas from CR4. But I'd draw the line at providing a fully worked solution for a work problem..
Del

Good point.

Someone just posted a question that anyone working in the industry should know, see: http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/32953#newcomments

Looked like homework so I pointed the original poster in the right direction for find out for himself. The very next post gave a step by step on how-to. How can anyone learn or retain knowledge when they are handed the answer? I am still giggling about the fact that no one has brought up soil conditions in the area of the grounding, except me that is. basic rules and regulations are a good guideline, but sometimes just don't work. I really hope he isn't trying to get a good ground grid in very sandy soil, just doesn't work too well, but from hand holding he will never learn.

I love CR4, for the most part being shown a different direction to investigate and always a great learning experience.

Not complaining i got 3 GAs on the electrical question post 8-)

P.S. if you want your face slapped Del, grab the secretary's ass 8-)

Yeah, completely off topic

I got back to the guy I referred to in another thread and provided the links to where I got my education - all on free websites from the FAA - and offered to help with his study since it is him and not his company.

Like you say, I'll *help* anyone, but I ain't paddling for them.

Sir, I don't think you did anything wrong at all. Of course it is always up to the individual what and how much to 'help' ... that's what forums such as CR4 are all about ... along with a little fun and less-than-subtle opinions now and then .

Still, there is indeed a line to be drawn at some point. Time is valuable and the greatest ethic is to, with the best regard to everyone, take care of ourselves. It is a gross understatement to say we are in difficult economic times, but even if everything were grand, there is still something a little sly when someone wants you to do all the work for them. In my best English grammar, "it just ain't right" .

[I had one chap about 4 months ago who wrote to me off-line, asking for endless help with his project ... I probably did too much, but finally had to just quit ... I already have too many jobs ... I love to be of assistance, but sometimes it can go too far.]

For all we do in the greater 'village' of the planet, we must first take care of ourselves, or we can be of no use to anyone else.

You did good (more good grammar) .

Take care, good job hunting, and kindest regards ...

Well stated!

Good idea. 2222 posts and a GA to boot. Must have some cosmic significance! Keep at it.

Dicky Bird would need to stay off the ground for ages. (For those on the other side of the pond the reference is "Cricket".)

Thank you.

Love your tag line. I claim the ability to define/ describe anything in 11 words or less.

Here's an example:

Lever

Simple machine

Move heavy objects

Makes me feel strong

Bar

milo "Thanks for the connection, The Prof"

Scary, being on the other side of the pond I recognized Dicky Bird, scary indeed. Must be part of the Land Rover influence.

I think you took the right approach.

Have you seen the new Blog by Dr.Doug ? Check it out at about here. He may have some thoughts on how to make best use of things like your linkedin profile and other places, also the original point you raised. As Milo says, maybe somebody on CR4 will read your post and have something that's mutually beneficial. Perhaps you could add a bit more to your CR4 profile whilst looking for any contracts on the offing. Occasionally doing something as a freebie can help get a foot in the door, but you're wise to have a line drawn in the sand.

The good Dr.Doug sort of put me off with his history in the profile, training traders and finical folk, my first thought was; so it is his fault this finical melt down because of over exceeding people who did not take the big view. Sales people are born, not trained. All the motivation in the world will not make someone, not passionate about their chosen profession, exceed, possibly in the short term, but not for any length of time. Personally if I have to be one of those cheer leader types I would rather unemployed. That is the crux of the situation, how do you find motivated passionate people?

Here is an interesting story: I applied for a technical position at General Dynamics (GD), the lead engineer on the project knew me and was aware of my talents, he even wanted me on his team. problem was GD uses software to read on-line applications and only applications that make it through the on-line BORG will be considered. they end up with a lot of people who write well, same people who test well, but not many who are passionate and are likely to be with the company in five years.

< rant mode off>

I am just as frustrated as the next guy by those practices. I interview strong but do not have the letters and degrees to support (many threads here have discussed this phenom).

But the very idea of being "selected" by a program is just infuriating.

Do tell. I have missed out on more interesting positions than I care to count. I can never get past the common BORG, if I get an interview, I can sell myself. I have been told I was born a salesman, in fact I love sales, just not retail, been there done that.

Best position I ever had was selling GIS software, never have I worked so hard, mainly because I saw each sale as a challenge. Then the company was broken up and sold, Autodesk bought our division, and because the product could not be packages and shrink wraped, it just went away, truly a shame since it was a very powerful, very fast tool. A real shame had they developed the product further, rather than just dump it, it might be the world leader today.

Funny thing, I was reading a couple of weeks ago the all the rage was the ability to tie a CAD program to the GIS, I was part of the team that did just that almost 10 years ago, new development my ass.

oops I'm ranting again, sorry

well.......I was simply adding signposts, not advocating anything/anyone. People have to decide what's helpful or not for themselves. Dr. Doug sent a shiver down my spine when I first heard of him (his intro post), but he may have some interesting views on work psychology so I am still cogitating. I may or may not elaborate, on his blog, depending how the mood takes me.

Sales people are born ? If that were true, I've met plenty who would, through their very existence, provide a single good reason for terminations. The kind who talk a million miles an hour, and who's only goal is to get a signature on a line. Plenty of variants on that type. Paradoxically, good sales people spend more time listening. Charisma is often found in sales people, whatever they're selling, but I'd argue that's more a result of childhood development than genetics. In any event, if it's used to lure people into buying something they don't want or need, they're usually called con artists. People can learn presentation skills, and a whole lot of related stuff that can help them in life, but I've never felt the need or inclination. It's quite possible that I'm missing out on something, but I'm quite happy to continue on my merry way regardless of whether people want to kiss or kick my arse (not quite true - I'd hate being adulated as much as I dislike being crapped on). 'Do unto others' works for me.

There's another take on the BORG thing ; much as I understand your irritation, it helps stop suggestion of favouritism by the lead engineer. If essential skills are filtered for, at least only competent people will get to interview. Unfortunately for you, you were collateral in that process. Lots of companies, especially the bigger ones, have rigid (and often plain stupid) recruitment processes. Such recruiting procedures would only serve to make me realize I didn't want to work for such a company. As to interviews, it's a two way process.

Must dash, Gilly Braham is on TV, and I want to pledge my soul............

"Lots of companies, especially the bigger ones, have rigid (and often plain stupid) recruitment processes. "

True that. In my younger years I hired in as labor, or entry level technician, which was not screened, and then applied as an "internal Candidate."

I'm older now, but would still consider this "chess game" scenario over contiinued headbashing where you are unable to fool the software.

Thats what life experience is all about...

milo

Funny thing, I was about to be hired by the same company almost 20 years ago, they were doing an upgrade program for the Abrams tank, I was offered lead hand on the project, but my daughter was just born at the time and considering I would be out of country for six months at a time I had to turn the position down. I even designed the support vehicle for the original project, unfortunately for me both of the lead engineers are retired.

I have tried in vane to get back on the same project twice since, I have even 'adjusted' my application to get past their BORG but no luck.

Ideally I would love to get a position of this kind, does not have to be tanks, any upgrade project were I get to solve challenges and travel, use my life experience.

I probably should have said "GOOD" sales people, and you are correct they listen to what is said and react accordingly. Way back in the 70s I worked retail in a plumbing store, base salary and commission, as I recall a good annual was around 35,000, I was making 40,000 and I NEVER up sold. I just listened to what the customer was looking for, offered options, and filled their needs. I had many repeat customers, and was always in the top four sales people in the country, first a couple of months. I hated retail, you have to glue on a happy face every day, and the sell, sell, sell, from the owner got tired very fast. Funny thing, they went bankrupt because of this attitude, most customers never came back.

Sales is an art, a good sales person will carefully listen and then present options, and never up-sell. Customers are not stupid and recognize the up-sell almost immediately. A good sales person also avoids jargon, and acronyms. Part of the listening process, you only get a few seconds to understand the customer, that is were the talent comes in, being able to adjust to each customer, be it in retail, or on a customer call and presentation.

It also helps if you believe in what you are selling.

Doh ! Earlier clarification could have saved me all that typing !!

I'll have 5, and I want commission on the 200 I sell to the cat

Using a computer to do "human relations" is an oxymoron, one of those stupidities that executive morons like to do. I wonder about the executives at GD. Perhaps they could be replaced by software.

When I was in the Air Force, I was asked to do a tour with NASA. I asked if it would hurt my promotion prospects, and I was told that there was no doubt I would be promoted to Lt. Colonel on track; the NASA assignment would enhance my value to the AF. So I went. Then I was passed over for promotion. I asked how that came about. I was told that the promotion board used a computer program which counted up the number of stars of the general officer endorsements on the performance reports; if two major generals recommended promotion, I would rank higher than one lieutenant general endorsement. I had no general officer endorsements. I had NASA Lab. Director endorsements, and there isn't a Lab Director who doesn't believe he outranks any general, so why would he think to ask for a general officer endorsement? The computer program did not assign stars to a NASA Lab. Director. Sorry about that. Once an officer is passed over for promotion, he becomes a non-person, inelligible for a change of job, even back to a former job, or further training. They want him out. The same day that I got a letter of commendtion from the AF Scientific Advisory Board I was "relieved of all duties," though, of course, they continued to pay me. (I was already filling the Lt. Col. slot I would have had had I been promoted) They don't want people who will mess up their promotion statistics. I ended up as a major reporting to a second lieutenant, so he could get credit for my work and thus get promoted. I swallowed my pride and stuck it out to retirement, but, understandably, I have a low opinion of humans who let computers do their thinking.

Totally unreasonable system instituted to save money in one department, but cost the overall company. They get all the wrong people. No wonder out manufacturing is slipping into insignificance on the world market. Sad state indeed.

We have probably exceeded the half-life for this discussion, but I have to contribute.

I was reading a job description from a company that was using the same recruiter they had used when they needed contractors, but have since pulled all the jobs in house as directs.

Said "Must have DOORS".

For a senior program manager / systems engineer.

Flipped a note to the recruiter, advised she have a word with the principle as telling direct employees you wouldn't invest a half hour or even a week into their development seemed ...perhaps the wrong message.

She responded she had pointed this out and the requirement stayed.

Thanks to all the well-wishers!

I am off to sunny New Hampshire, employed at last!

Looking forward to the color change - green!

I really do travel and don't mind New England (like travel ) just loathing the 2700 miles to get there. But the folks seem nice and the project is interesting.

More now - they want me at the home office in Texas first - what the heck, it's on the way *The entire US is on the way*

So 3000 miles not on the job, but it lasts for months and don't want to do the rental car, so...high ho, high ho!

I'm just glad to go back to work. At all.

Good on ye! You seem to have decided to enjoy it, so my guess - you will.

It's life, you can enjoy or not, but the option to taking the ride is a null data point.

It is my firm opinion that groups such as this are deemed toward self rather than community. So your response was accurate considering self.