Understanding Stray Voltage

Excellent discription/explaination of stray noltage.

Wareagle,

I downloaded the video. All I can say is who would have thought...

j.

Very interesting, unfortunately one can't ask the guy questions.
I didn't watch the whole thing as I'm not sure if the same applies in the UK I think Neutral is connected to an earth rod where the service comes into the house in the UK.

Maybe a UK electrical guy can advise us...?
Del

Del

In the US the neutral is connected to a ground rod at the house. The biggest point he makes is the the utility neutral on long single phase lines is at a different potential due to voltage drop than earth. This has been a big problem in the Wisconsin area which has big dairy farms. The battle between the utility and the farms has been going on for a long time.

Wareagle,

The way that kind of a problem is often solved is for an association of the dairy farms to take the utilities to court.

For court they would have to do a better job explaining to a jury but if they do that it seems it would be a sure thing.

Then the utilities would be in for legal fees as well as alteration of their system.

j.

Jack Jersawitz,

The way that kind of a problem is often solved is for an association of the dairy farms to take the utilities to court.

eventually yes....but not at first.

and

For court they would have to do a better job explaining to a jury but if they do that it seems it would be a sure thing.

I do not think you are familiar with this, While the farmer attorney fees take the public Service company to court it is eating into the profits of the farm.......not all farms in Wisconsin are large, most of the profitable farms are small family farms with 50 -100 cow herds.

This stray voltage has been going on for a very long time.......over 30 years. First is what was causing this stray voltage, and was very difficult to point responsibility to.

And on top of this, while the cows are losing milk, herd health declines. the Farmer is spending his limited capital resource on attorney's to fight the company's that supply the service to the farmer. If this does not get straighten out, that farm is out of business, a tactic that has been used, quite effectively.

Heres another example;

Did you not watch the video? And if you did, tell me why Mike Holt quit the board on organization that appeared to help the customer.

but instead was actually was set up to distract and put their faith into something that was clearly a conflict of interest, to sap any kind of resource out of a potential claimant. Because they knew all what the farmers wanted was to stop the stray voltage, so they could get on with their livelihood.

What started to change, I believe was some greedy attorneys were able to get some farmers to file a class action lawsuit. Which was difficult.....because of proving it to different utilities, under different circumstances.

phoenix911

That is what farm associations are for, to spread the burden, Of course I recognize that the smaller farms may be unable to handle it even then.

On the other hand, as opposed to legal fees, laying concrete with imbedded grounds, even if on top of existing barn floors, may be much less expensive using their own labor. I say that not in order to excuse the power distributors but simply as what may be the most efficacious way to solve the problem.

That is what greedy attorneys are for. On their own contingency dollar, to bring these cases against big buck interests.

What interested, and interests me most, are the technical problems, for instance physically ramping an entryway to a barn so that the change in stray voltage is incremental.

These stray voltage problems are not just rural. In recent years their have been pet dogs and people electrocuted on New York's streets, most often by underground shorts electrifying surface cover plates but occasionally by sources of current not easily discovered or understood.

Until recently the city did not even have regulations to control such problems.

Incidentally, when I referred to doing a better job in explanation I was talking about doing a better job explaining the involved electrical phenomena. That is the first stage of explaining the electric companies culpability.

j.

Hello Jack

On the other hand, as opposed to legal fees, laying concrete with imbedded grounds, even if on top of existing barn floors, may be much less expensive using their own labor.

Well, the problem was that there was no difinte information on what cause stray voltagr. And from the untility, the farmer was not getting any help because the poser company was afraid of lawsuit,,,,if it started admitting fault.

What the farmers started doing is grounding any new additions including water supply and stations, ect.... to avoid stray voltage.

phoenix911

Hello Jack,

I wanted to add, but missed, it was your comment.

For court they would have to do a better job explaining to a jury but if they do that it seems it would be a sure thing.

It took alot of time but people like Mike Holt that had integrity to go against the large utilities, a job there or consulting for them can be quite lucrative......if you draw the company line.

But you were correct......but I would not say its a sure thing....there was a terrible price the farmers involved paid while going through it.

phoenix911

It applies anywhere with 3 phase supply when neutral is bonded to earth at the substation and transported over cables together with the phases and the phases are not perfectly balanced......

It has been covered many times on CR4 with varying acceptance of the facts by certain people......!

Remember:- Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity is Electricity!!

Many thanks wareagle for a great link to Mike's web page.......

The neutral may ONLY be bonded at the substation, if it is bonded elsewhere, you get bad circulating currents in the ring produced......I forgot to mention that in my last post, sorry.

One thing I remember is the requirement for a fence around a utility pole. Where the supplier neutral voltage differs from local earth potential an earthing rod is inserted by the pole carrying the transformer. Since the earth is not an excellent conductor there will be a potential gradient extending in all directions from the earth rod. The danger is that the resistance from front feet to rear feet of an animal (consisting mostly of water) would be less than that of the ground. The current flowing due to the potential difference would then take the path of least resistance and flow through the animal rather than along the ground. The fence would ideally keep the animal far enough away so that any current flowing through it is unlikely to harm it.

Can you tell me if Mike Holt actually knows the NEC? As an entrepreneur he may just hire people who do know it. Nobody seems to know this for sure.

"Can you tell me if Mike Holt actually knows the NEC?"

I know that he gives training sessions on the NEC. He makes the presentation himself.