Whats the Best Way to Ask for a Raise?

Just say all the good stuff you do and that you feel you deserve a raise, suggest a figure if you want.
Whatever you do...do NOT compare your performance to that of others.
If anyone tried that justifiction to me, I would merely respond...'So you'd be happy if they all had a pay cut?'
Del

Or, maybe you'd be happier somewhere else. So long....

I'd go to my boss and say,"Our business is swiftly picking up, and revenues are starting to flow again. I took a 10% pay cut for the economy, and have not received a cost of living increase for almost 2 years. I was due for a raise just before the economy tanked, and received a cut instead."

I'd treat it just as I would a sales call to a new client. Don't know if you do this or not.

Introduce the product, you, in such a way that the prospective customer, your boss, will see that you are an asset to the company. I agree with Del, don't mention the other people around you.

You have to demonstrate why you are irreplaceable, what outstanding qualities you posses and why on one else can do what you do, as well as you do.

Good Luck!

Excellent post Lyn.

This is exactly the approach.

Personally, I would hold off a while longer. If the company is as good as you think it is, they should make pay adjustments without you having to ask.

The best will depend on the situation and vary from one industry or trade to another.

I can say from the experience that UNFORTUNATELY the "most effective" - but not recommended has been to give my notice. This has always sucked because they always offer more money but I'll never stay when I've made up my mind to leave or have already committed to someone else.

If you can get a written job offer for more $$ then you have leverage but that can be dangerous as well.

It is my impression that many in control of companies have decided that all pay cuts achieved during this recession, are to be permanent.

It may well be that the company you work for has determined that no-one shall be paid more regardless.

It is a hardball world, and getting people to pay you for your contributions is a serious game.

The rule of thumb when picking a job is: "Good Money, Good Project, and Good People; Must have Two out of Three."

You say you like your work, and you like your workmates, but money has become an issue.

In my own past, when working for others, I was successful getting raises through the "Dysfunctional" approach. Many do not really understand that what "Dysfunctional" really means is no one speaks directly to anyone about serious issues.

My successful securing of any increases in pay came from speaking to someone who had the bosses ear, and was considered more valuable than myself.

Do you have any relationships with any within the company that might be in a position to advocate for you?

Do you have any offers from any other companies?

Do you know co-workers who have left to work for other companies for increased status or compensation?

You will be surprised sometimes how temporary "friends" can be in the workplace.

My suggestion is that if you want more money, you do put out feelers to others, and seek offers regardless of any emotions or attachments you may have to your current position, with your current employer. Ask someone you trust within the company if they can help you secure more pay, and be willing to move if there is an offer that satisfies your ambitions.

Keep in mind that your best working years are between 35 and 55 regardless of what the propaganda is, and make your decisions accordingly, further recognizing that while love is nice to have, just because you love someone or a place, that doesn't necessarily mean they love you, and work is a thing we do to get material necessities.

My ex boss often said he loved me...

If you are unwilling to change companies-

"P.S. I really love my job, my company, and the people I work with, so finding a new job, or jeopardizing (not sure if thats with a "Z" or an "S") the one I have is a less than desirable option,"

- then don't bother to ask at this time.

Only if you have the degrees of freedom to move will you have the power to actually < Receive / convince "demand"> the raise that you claim to deserve.

I have found that the best way to ask for a raise is to signal a change in behavior.

I keep a notoriously messy office.

When it was time for a long overdue raise at a prior employer, I changed behavior. I started carting out my personal 'crap' (extra reference books that were my property, Spock and Startrek memorabilia, Greeting cards from customers, tschotchkies, etc.)

Simultaneously I was negotiating another position and interviewing. Beyond that I said NOTHING to NOONE. Not even my wife. The people I interviewed were not customers. I do not know that they checked references with my then current employer. But my employer magically figured out that perhaps I was underpaid for my contributions. They had a no raises policy, but somehow, my Promotion to "Senior Plant Metallurgist" was sufficient to garner additional compensation despite the wage freeze.

If they would have come to the conclusion that It was good for me to go, I'd have been up the proverbial creek. DON'T BET IF YOU CAN"T AFFORD TO LOSE.

So don't start this if you don't have the will and ability to move.

Ultimately, bluffers are discovered.

milo

__________________

Milo is on the right track. You can't beat a formal written job offer from another company, preferably a competitor, as a negotiation tool whether or not you disclose it in the negotiation. And if your boss tells you to accept the other job most likely that will be the best thing to do. He may know things he can't tell you.

If you are a professional or sales type be familiar with your position vis a vis your state or country employment laws in the area of "no compete" clauses.

Ed Weldon

Hi Milo,

Good reply. I agree with you.

Suresh Sharma.

Best raise I ever got went down with a sharp learning curve for the former business I worked for.

I was over worked, under appreciated and others in the company hire up than me kept literally stealing my equipment I needed for my job just so their tool boxes would look more impressive to the customer.

I asked for a raise and complained about the needless tool box stuffing at my annoyance. They said no. I said fine, find some one else that can do everything I do as well as I do it. They said no problem, see you. And we can get by without you anyway so don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Three weeks later I was asked to come back with twice the pay and no one touched my stuff until the day I quit.

I still quit a few months later just because stupidity ran rampant there and I flat out got fed up with being the goto clean up guy for every one else's self inflicted problems. They had a problem I could not fix. Themselves.

That business went under and changed hands about a year later.

GREAT answer, .......I thought it but wouldn't say it - or actually do it......... but seriously...... some of the people I work with simply MUST have some picture tucked away in a lock box somewhere.............. They must have had good company picnics - or something before I stated is all I can say.

Curious? was that a company wide 10% pay cut, or only you?

I would prepare, practice alittle on what they may counter, then go in and make the presentation...

But let them talk on thier position, if its not at this time, when. If you let them talk long enough And they are just stretching the freeze for the sake of making $...that will come out

The pay cuts were company wide, management and engineering were kept on 5 days a week with a 10% cut while everyone else was reduced to 4 days a week at normal pay. We also closed down one entire branch... leaves us with three. I'm at the corporate headquarters in the Engineering Dept.

I know things are bleak... and may not recover for a while yet, and now would be the worst time to ask, as the job market is nearly vanished (Oregon has been hit hard), so getting another offer wouldn't be easy. I suppose i should just grit my teeth dig in my nails and hang on for the ride...

If my job duties had remained fairly constant I wouldn't even consider it, but they have not, I've taken on much higher responsibilities than ever before, and have about half again more work to do every day.

Its really too bad It's such an Enjoyable place to work, Or I'd have left already.

But on a lighter note, I am taking night classes, and the company foots the bill for me, so I need to take that into consideration.

And on an even lighter note yet... I have less than an hour til I'm on Vacation!... But I'll darken that up a bit... After looking out the window and checking the weather, It looks like my coastal camping adventure will be accompanied with a bit of rain... But I'm an Oregonian, I have to be exposed to regular rainfall to keep my gills moist.

Thank you all for the comments, I'll be mulling it all over while staring at the fire.

I hope you all have a wonderful weekend.

Hey Aristocrat,

Have fun this weekend. It's 113F here, in AZ and I'm stuck in a giant heat island.

I know how you feel about doing more with less.

Forget it, and enjoy the weekend.

sounds like your just about talking yourself out about asking for a raise.....

good weekend....back at you

As you asked, here goes another testimony.

I also love my job, love the place I work, love to work with my colleagues.

I also had a deep pay cut. In my case, the same as 1 working day in the week. Crisis made the business to be sold, a lot of cuts have been taken, I have accumulated the job of two colleagues (fortunately, one asked to leave for another company and the other was already retired so there was no issue with these two layoffs, at least). This situation is lasting something around 3 years already.

Business is facing some good promises ahead, but situation seems not to go so well. No chance for a payment raise, and I'm in the verge of a future personal economic tragedy.

My boss and his manager and all colleagues agree that I really do more than any other person they could hire.

What could I do? Why loose time asking for a raise?

I had a chance to enter a contest for a government placement in the same area I currently work, for a payment that will be 2X my current payment without the cut, plus integral retirement, job stability, etc. There was like 65 candidates for each placement, and I was able to classify myself. Of course, I'll be out of home much more time, but in the long term my family will do have a better life.

After all, even after the business recover and go well, do you know what is going to happen? I'd continue to work more for the same payment if nothing else happens.

Now they know I'm leaving soon with such conditions, they have considered an offer after the cutout period is gone. But it is going to be too late.

If you are so good like you think you are, go after it. Ask for a rise after you have an option. You have the right to look for something better to you - and in my oppinion, this is also an obligation. After you let them know that there's another company doing a good offer, that you are more than worth what you intend to earn, and of course the value you are thinking about agrees with the market positions, well my friend, it's really time to quit. No matter how much you like it, you need money to live and care about your elderness.

If you really are interested in your classes, of course you should add it to your current payment in the evaluation. In the worst case, finish your classes and observe your career chances after that. Quit if you are feeling stuck. Time goes too fast, and you should take care of your future.

Your first obligation is to your family and their well-being. If you can get the better job, take it!

Of special interest is that the business is returning but is the industry reflecting equally? If not chill a bit...remember though you got a pay cut so the cost of living may have diminished a bit too.

Hi...

If all other efforts fail then try and patao his wife. You'll succeed only if your boss loves his wife. For all those who dunno what is Patao... can ask me or any other north indian // anil

There are many places to get advice on this, which is my way of saying I probably don't have the best.

Sometimes the best you can do is get your co-workers a raise on your way out.

Don't even talk to other firms unless you are willing to leave, then be aware (depending on your place in the food chain) that talking to other firms may be considered "disloyal". So the pay raise it gets you may be short-lived.

But too much of this depends on the relationship you have built with your boss for our advice.

My 2 cents is be happy with what ya have.

Right now there are probably 100 applications for your job sitting in the HR department or your bosses desk. That are ready and willing to do your job for far less than what you are maiking right now.

Be happy you still have a job at all and just wait it out.

Another reflection on this subject..... We got used to raises because for many years we lived with some inflation in the currency, a usual price of a growing economy and a good level of competence in government management of the money supply. All our employers were telling us was that you are still worth what we were paying you last year.

With interest rates so low and a drop in consumer price indices if you really want to get any significant raise you have to convince your employer that he values you a lot more than he did last year.

Now we have deflation, at least for this year. If you get a pay cut of the same order in an organization with an otherwise constant level of business your employer is essentially sending you the same message about your value. If your hours get cut your employer is telling you that he doesn't need as much work as before. That's different. If you're unlucky you may get both and if you're really unlucky and are exempt salaried (like many engineers) your employer may go for the triple play and expect you to put in more hours. Possible if you are involved in sales proposals aand preliminary engineering for projects looking for government infrastructure stimulus money.

Ed Weldon

Deflation?

of what?

Housing prices possibly.

Certainly not transportation or food

Propane's not quite as high.

Electricity unchanged.

when it comes to getting a raise, I like honesty

RVZ717's laid out a good case, present it. You may not get the maximum possible raise, but since you don't want to leave, it's worth a shot.

Any sort of real or implied threats will forever change the relationship with your management. No reason to screw up your gig. Money is only one part of the total package.

Personally I would be pissed, I'd take time off over a reduction in pay everytime. As usual management & even support, get a better deal than talent.

I would just like to know have the consumer price index has come down in U.S?. I mean prices of daily consumer goods have come down due to deflation?. If yes then pay cuts can be justified.

Suresh Sharma.

Its down a couple of percent Suresh. Here is BLS opening statement for July 2009.

The Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) decreased 0.2 percent in July before seasonal adjustment, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. Over the last 12 months the index has fallen 2.1 percent, as a 28.1 percent decline in the energy index since its July 2008 peak has more than offset increases of 0.9 percent in the food index and 1.5 percent in the index for all items less food and energy.

On a seasonally adjusted basis, the CPI-U was unchanged in July following a 0.7 percent increase in June. Small declines in the food and energy indexes offset a small increase in the index for all items less food and energy. The food index declined 0.3 percent in July with all six major grocery store food groups posting declines. The energy index, which rose 7.4 percent in June, fell 0.4 percent in July. Decreases in the indexes for gasoline, fuel oil, and electricity more than offset an increase in the index for natural gas.

The index for all items less food and energy rose 0.1 percent in July following a 0.2 percent increase in June. The indexes for new vehicles, tobacco, medical care and apparel all continued to increase in July, and the index for airline fares turned up after a long series of declines. In contrast to these increases, the shelter index decreased in July as the index for lodging away from home fell and the indexes for rent and owners' equivalent rent were unchanged.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid0907.pdf

There are folks who will say they are seeing higher prices at the store for food, and they would be right. However, our fuel costs are a little above half of what they were at the pump at the peak, and rents are down.

CPI is marketbasket of "essentials;" given the mindset today, reduced demand for non-essentials has lowered their prices substantially as well.

Thats my 2 sense.

milo

Over the last 12 months the index has fallen 2.1 percent, as a 28.1 percent decline in the energy index since its July 2008 peak

There are folks who will say they are seeing higher prices at the store for food, and they would be right. However, our fuel costs are a little above half of what they were at the pump at the peak

Huh?

Thanks for a more comprehensive view

Here on the ground the peak gas price I saw was just under $5/gal[reg unl]. The price is hovering around $3/gal as we speak.

In Ohio I'm paying $2.47 a gallon... Thats "about half of $5.00" by my reckoning...

Food prices are difficult to generalize about, so I accept the cpi,

Bread manufactured food is $2.89 at the Supermarket we go to (homepride split top whole wheat), I think thats up but flour, fresh vegies, and such are down (seasonally on the vegies?)

Chocolate is way up $4.09 for 12 oz hersheys kisses, (and who buys the cheap stuff, but soda s at the local speedway gas station (25% or more of my daily caloric intake) are down just $0.79 regardless of size...

My wife works in retail, and they are almostalways selling at clearance and promotional pricing. Sometimes the new shipment gets marked down as soon as they recieve it.

Rents are down in our area.

I think down 2% is an understatement, But it may be the fact that I'm at that point in my life with no kids in the house where the cash just seems to last longer...

milo

Around where I live in NC, food is up significantly. Gas is not as high as it was, but is right near 3 bucks a gallon. (Gas Taxes in NC are among the highest in the nation.)

I do not own, and my rent has been increased. The Landlord put this to increased taxes.

Around where I live all employers are reducing pay in the trades.

As well jobs that appear to me as real jobs for work in fields I worked to develop skills in such as Radio, or Journalism, TV or motion picture production get "interns", and then wear them out and run them out of town.

They have closed the airport, pretty much.

The Real Estate Brokers I know report to me that even for sensible real estate proposals to the banks and bankers, money to refinance or move projects forward is denied.

The main engine of the local economy where I live is the university, and they are in the process of firing or laying off a reported 9 layer administrative staff.

Those who do have money are getting such low returns on their money that in light of their losses, will not invest in anything new.

Suicides are up in the area.

Investments in coffins and crematoriums are recommended.

P.S. As far as raises are concerned, good luck.

I don't think we have any real disagreement, + or -2% is not substantial.

RVZ717's 10% pay reduction is

Your initial advice is mostly correct

Yep.

I was just trying to give our colleague suresh from other time zone away something that was credible rather than opinion.

Uhh, Maybe I should say 'accredited'rather than 'credible'...

milo

Given the somewhat gloomy picture others paint for near term employment options, staying pat for a while longer may be the best thing. Most times, HOW and WHEN you say something is key. There are usually opportunities to make "offhand" casual comments that can convey your concern over your well-being, as well as the whole company's well-being -- i.e., your coworkers well-being. It may very well be that your supervisors/management is being as compassionate as is possible in the current environment. If they ARE compassionate, a well placed, casual comment regarding how tough it is for everyone -- not just yourself, might stir someone to act.

As a side note. I think you are a creative type. Why not consider developing some product or service on the side to create an adjunct income? This can serve a dual purpose. Not only might it help make up for lost income, but depending on how much you love what you are doing, it can be a pleasant distraction from what feels like stress in your "major" employment environment.

Just ask.

Present your accomplishments and make a case for a specific increase (i.e salary survey statistics).

If the answer is no, nothing changes, you didn't have a raise before you asked and you didn't have a raise after you asked.

Don't try an approach, just be honest. Talk to you're boss and say, I really like it here, I like the people I work with, but my salary is a problem. If he tells you too bad, you need to seriously consider moving on.

Most managers aren't bad people and if you talk to them honestly you can usually reach an understanding. Just don't make it confrontational, it may not be the managers fault you can't get a raise. Don't make it emotional, it's not fair. Just be matter of fact about it.

I like this job, I like the people I work with, I'm unhappy with my salary. I'm afraid my unhappiness with my salary is going to force me to leave this place that I like. Can we improve my salary situation?

And before you do anything, understand what you're worth. Not by comparisons with other engineers salaries, but by how much you make for the company through your work. That way you will feel justified in asking for your raise.

There is nothing shameful or wrong about asking directly for a raise. Any relationship requires communication. By communicating your concern you give management an opportunity to take care of your concerns. If they cannot, consider moving on. If you do move on, leave on good terms with the understanding that the business simply couldn't afford to pay you what you're worth so you had to leave.

Good luck.

This is as helpful and well thought-out and both ethically and rationally grounded a post as I have read, Roger.

If I were not available and someone gave this to my adult working kids when they needed it, I would be pleased.

Thanks for this.

milo

How about testing the waters first? Hey boss, since our business is swiftly picking up, and revenues are starting to flow again, is the company going to unfreeze wages soon?

His answer/response will give you a good indication of what the chances are, and possibly why. It could be that the company isn't counting on this new influx of business because it is a one-shot deal. Or business really has picked back up (on a permanent basis), but they aren't going to automatically start reducing their profits by increasing salaries.

Either way you will get some information, without a confrontation. You will also be giving information (you and the rest are being hurt financially), without a threat of leaving.

But I still like my answer in post 12 better.

I just returned to work today after a mini-vacation (much needed) I feel in better spirits now, and decided to wait a while on asking for anything... business is still too unstable right now.

But... there was something very interesting in my Inbox here at work when I returned... An E-mail from a Strategic Talent Acquisition Professional, informing me of a position opening at one of our competitors. He stated he wished to talk with me after hours... Strange timing. I'll talk with him... but with the understanding that he sought me out, and not the other way around... I'm going to talk... but cautiously.

Thank you all for the great words!

Terrific!

You will get an offer.

You can assume that the recruiter is not going to offer you less than what you are making.

Hence you are in a perfect position and don't have to do more than say simply, "I've got an offer from another company to work for them for more money."

Good people, good project, good money!

I read Eddie Rickenbeckers autobiography many years ago.

Even before he was a WWI fighter pilot and later the President? CEO? of Eastern Airlines, he did tell a story of how he had had a job that didn't pay what he thought he was worth, so he went looking for another job.

He found one that paid more, and told the guy he had been working for that he had found another job that paid more, so he was going to work for that guy.

Immediately that employer offered him more money to stay with him.

Mr. Rickenbecker said, "Now I really quit because you should have paid me what I was worth in the first place."

I wouldn't be too paranoid about being approached by a headhunter. They know you have to work and can't afford to jeapordize your current standing just because they're approaching you. They don't get paid unless the position is filled, and they wont be filling too many positions if they burn their prospects. Go ahead and meet with them to see what they have to offer.

Good luck!

Great! Meet with him and if your current situation can assuaged tender your resignation and leave; be professional about it and without career limiting comments.

Good point never burn your bridges no matter how tempting, it really is a small world...

Yes, It is really a small world, And the Fluid Power Industry is only a speck, on a bit of dandruff of the world... Very VERY small community, where everyone knows everyone, even the competitors, there can be no secrets.

Have you thought about just asking for a performance review? Most companies should give them yearly. This , I found, is a very nice passive aggressive way of bringing up the subject. Managment mentality is that you want to know what you are doing right and/or wrong and want to improve on your performance. Salary is sure to come up in the conversation.

Remember, there are that many more people looking for your job right now! This is a business meeting, show no emotion. If you can't live with the results, smile,thank him and go back to work. Start looking for a better job the next day.

-Kevin