Rethinking: Perpetual Motion

?

Silly discussions about perpetual motion--there's perpetual motion for ya.

La mente è nel movimento perpetuo

Sinnet er i evigvarende bevegelse

Well, figuratively speaking.

I did not specify mechanical or physical.

I have four kids your answer is the best one yet.

Threw me for a minute with the Norwegian...

ummmmm....planetary (orbital) motion as perpetual motion?

This is perhaps as close we have to perpetual motion. But tidal and other forces are diminishing it ever so slowly, so that it will not last forever.

Used car salemen's eyes?

Electrons orbiting a nucleus (the nice shiny blue ones)
Del

Del, what happens when the atom becomes ionized? Loss of electron(s)? Remember the story of the two atoms walking down the street. Goodness! Said one atom. I think I've lost an electron! Are you sure, asks the second electron? Yes, replied the first atom. I'm positive.

Bureaucracy.

Although paradoxically it's also a form of perpetual stagnation. But since it generates more frustration than it destroys, it qualifies.

This reminded my of the joke new element "Administratium"

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/administ.htm

Trying to knock sense into the heads of the conspiracy theory spouting over-unity crowd. It's a neverending chore.

Attempts to disprove the Laws of Thermodynamics will result in perpetual motion, for those journeys have no destination!

I agree with Del, I understand Sue and Tornado.

Tangible:

Gravity.

My observation would be gravity is perpetual motion, it drives space, the only thing that stops it is matter and only because it gets in the way.

Time:

Time is perpetual, what drives time?

Some will say time is not tangible, I say it is.

Space:

Space is perpetual as our ever expanding universe but the core is gravity that was pushed by a nucleus so Del gets a good answer from me.

You all here brilliant in your own right, it is interesting to see one's take on how they perceive a concept.

I think sometimes we overlook the obvious while searching for a complex answer to a simple question.

Offset opinions?

What about gravity? What about magnetism? Those are natural forces so why hasn't a bright engineer figured out how to capitalize on the free energy of those forces to turn a generator? Maybe a few have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLngerzzSBI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgEsSOphlp8&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7i7P63IByY&feature=player_embedded

Are these guys scammers or will they make the Bloom Box obsolete?

Force ≠ energy, much less free energy. TANSTAFE.

Instead of creative filming show me a pdf which contains the real drawings of such a motor.

the only thing we get to see is creative texts lectured by smooth guys.

Never they build it togheter in front of the camera, prooving they put only honest parts in.

None of them has succeeded in building up such a device in a room given by a notified body, controlled by them.

Just show us a test report from a witnessed test, where a real trustfull person supports the claims. And a person you can trust is a director of a notified body, who knows that when it is a fraud he will loose his nicely paid job and reputation.

If you really believe it will work, invite the noble science commitee, build up your story so that they will send someone down to do some verifications.

Gravity and magnetism, just act in a constant direction, to get a motion one needs to change or move the direction of the force.
E.G You drop a ball it's perpetual motion...at least...until it hits the foor.
Now if you could reverse the gravitational field back and forth you could get perpetual motion... Same applies to magnetism.
Just one catch though...
Reversing a field requires energy....
Del

Solar energy would perpetual, if this energy could be used to set a repelling force .

I'm sure you have seen those barometric clocks that are driven by a version of perpetual motion, the bellows inside the clock expand with air pressure and this winds the clock.

Jeez.
Del: Constant things are no good.
Time traveler: Well, add in another constant thing...
Del:

Del

Solar energy would perpetual,

Solar energy is not perpetual. Eventually even the stars run out of fuel. We generate a lot of hot air, so maybe we can refuel ours? But then of course oxygen itself doesn't burn, but there is still methane. Not sure about the nitrogen. We're such a prolific species: with everything!

if this energy could be used to set a repelling force

It does have a repulsive force. Every seen one of those little 'Radial spoked wheels' inside a vacuum inside a light bulb shaped glass globe? Can't remember the name at the moment, but it sits balanced on a pinhead at the center of the 'spoked wheel' so that it can rotate on it with very little friction. On the end of each radial arm a little (rectangular) pad is fixed to the end of each arm. One side is white, the other side of the pad is black. The difference in the reactions due to the color difference of the photons hitting them causes it to turn.

There have been a number of proposals of space travel with solar sails: literally, by utilizing this same principal.

Just our luck that scientists now figure that we may be in a part of the universe that is (relatively speaking: pun intended) one of innumerable 'giant voids' that may exist in our universe.

If utilizing this method for space travel, one would want to calculate the course VERY carefully. If one got caught in area of 'cosmological doldrums', they would have a VERY long wait before until the universe changed enough to send more light their way!

You've got all of the right factors, but just have them reversed.

I wouldn't sweat it too much if I were you though as none of these are very significant factors of immediate importance to us. Unless of course you are all ready to set sail on that cosmological 'Noah's Arc' that you've been secretly building for decades in your spare time in that abandoned warehouse.

You see? Not even 'gravity' is perpetual, there is 'levity' to counteract it (< 8)

PS: If you are still looking for good 'genetic material'.. . . . .

It does thave a relation to the thread. I made a posting about this device in response to another's comments, but I couldn't remember what it is called, but described it.

Does anyone rember/know waht this is called ?

If you reread post 65 ( the very one to which you were allegedly responding) you will see that the device in question is called a "radiometer." Even I can remember stuff for that long.

In a manner of speaking, you are indeed on trial here. Rambling, unscientific, and unresponsive postings tend to receive poor judgments. It's not as simple as counting up GAs versus OTs, but there is some vague correlation.

If you read post 65 a third time, it explains that the device responds to light, which is a form of radiation of much higher frequency than what are commonly called "radio waves."

Scammers, obviously.

"I think sometimes we overlook the obvious while searching for a complex answer to a simple question."

Okay, force doesn't equal energy but force can be turned into energy. This may be an example of Time's quote using both gravity and magnetism. Do any of you think that this device wil stop on it's own?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHVBu77jz4w

I don't know, but that's the most elaborate bagel slicer I've ever seen.

Very interesting link, bravo !

What do you find particularly interesting? There are hundreds of you tube videos on all sorts of "perpetual motion" machines, none of which have been demonstrated to work. Da Vinci's famous perpetual motion machine is avery bit as "convincing" as any modern one. Some of these ones are fun to puzzle over.

It seems you have learned to perpetually be a skeptic.

The link was interesting and it applied to the conversation. The process indicated would suggest a consistant motion.

If this simple application is valid would take more research, but I say from its primitive design whomever built it should be lauded for the effort, at least they tried.

If we cannot allow free thinking without ingrained criticial connotations or encourage the simplistic of designers, we should all go back to our hovels and make no attempt to enhance our thought process.

Look how the local community and the church percieved Da Vinci's free thinking.

You would have to be optimistic in your line of work.

I agree with you about science and church.

Please do not misunderstand me, the youtube link was interesting and plausible unlike many I have seen. That does not imply I am inclined to fooled with designs unfettered by the laws of physics as set by the designer.

Mechanical motion seems to require a correlation of force that needs a replenshing supply of energy.

Here is my thread motive:

The National Institute of Standards and Technology, in conjunction with the University of Maryland's Joint Quantum Institute, created a short-lived "proof of concept" of perpetual motion. Using an exotic type of matter known as a Bose Einstein condensate, or BEC, the team demonstrated true perpetual motion. Though the state persisted only ten seconds, team members say it will one day lead to real-world applications.

The fifth element ?

Yes, it will stop on its own.

Okay Blink, you appear to be one of the more wise gurus with 217 good answers. Would you have a guess on how long it takes the device to stop on it's own? It's a pretty simple device and it wouldn't take long to measure over a short amount of time whether the device loses any momentum. You wouldn't have to wait for it to stop to tell if it's perpetual. Any takers?

I have built a permanent magnet wheel propelled only by the repulsive force of another set of permanent magnets. Could there possibly be something going on in the nanomagnetic world to prove that they are not scammers?

Would you consider a device that produces 25 times more energy than it takes in a perpetual device? With just a little palladium, dueterium, and an electric charge a nanotech event takes place that may rewrite the equation U = Q - W.

http://www.flixxy.com/cold-fusion-alternative-energy-breakthrough.htm

Would you have a guess on how long it takes the device to stop on it's own?

The clock-like device? making a good guess is impossible to do from a video, if it's a good fake. In some of the not so good ones, you can time revolutions, pendulum swings, etc. and see that the device slows in a short period of time (perceptible in a minute or two). I have not done any timing with this device, but would assume that it is powered by an external source, so that it doesn't slow at all. Have you timed it?

Could there possibly be something going on in the nanomagnetic world to prove that they are not scammers?

I'm assuming by "they" that you mean the people promoting the devices shown in the three videos referenced above: I can't say anything about the first link in the three above, (because I can't see it due to a terms-of-use violation) but the other two certainly represent scams. Nothing going on in the nanomagnetic world is likely to change that. (If by nanomagnetic world you mean things that happen at a nano level with ordinary magnets, those things have also not changed.) I'd guess that the third device was Lee's Hummingbird/Sundance unit -- the one that got him put in jail for fraud.

"Proof" of these things working entails showing them to a skeptical crowd of scientists. Steorn failed, Lee failed, and I am not aware of the Witt unit having been presented to scientists.

Would you consider a device that produces 25 times more energy than it takes in a perpetual device?

No, but I think that cold fusion etc, may have some possibilities.

Blink, sorry about the bad link on the first video. It was actually the most believable out of the three. Try this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FZPeQZIQE8&NR=1 . Lutec has the device patented in every country that matters and has since sold the patent rights to http://www.evergreenltd.com.hk/patents.htm. You have to consider that there must be some merit to their device or they wasted a huge sum of money on patents. I have a patent and know they're expensive.

I mentioned the cold fusion as food for thought that there might be undiscovered magnetic potential in the nano world also.

Now I see why you have so many good answer ratings. That answer was sufficient enough to make me a believer. I guess we won't fire this disscussion back up until there are more discoveries in cold fusion and the nanotech world. You get another good answer from me. Thank you.

Thanks for the compliment and GA vote!

More follow up to the nanotech world.

If MIT is saying it you can be assured that there is likely some truth and proof to it.

"After further development, the system now puts out energy, in proportion to its weight, about 100 times greater than an equivalent weight of lithium-ion battery."

"In theory, he says, such devices could maintain their power indefinitely until used, unlike batteries whose charges leak away gradually as they sit unused. And while the individual nanowires are tiny, Strano suggests that they could be made in large arrays to supply significant amounts of power for larger devices."

Looks like the EEstor capacitor is going to have some competition soon. I'm not ready to sell my Lion stocks yet but I'm ready to load up the EV stocks. Those who said that EVs would never be competitive because of the battery cost underestimated man. I think Fisker's proposed 4 door sedan will be the market leader after they all get out of the gate. Here's the rest of the article-http://www.gizmag.com/carbon-nanotubes-thermopower-waves-electricity/14442/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=cbaa12a540-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email

I think Fisker's proposed 4 door sedan will be the market leader after they all get out of the gate.

Perhaps, although I would expect that the Volt and Cadillac equivalent will do better, with already-established distribution channels, lower prices, still-trusted brands for many people, and a large number of working prototypes already on the road. The Cadillac, in particular, could be offered at a relatively small premium over the cost of other Cadillacs.

However, I think the Fisker could do better than the Tesla, although Fisker has a lot of catching up to do in brand awareness. Many people will find the plug-in hybrid idea compelling: the advantages of an electric car 90% of the time, without the crippling range limitation. (Of course I may be a bit prejudiced: my prototype is a plug-in hybrid.)

I expect to see Nissan Leafs (and the BYD electric car, if it makes it here) in far greater numbers that the Tesla sedan. (The Roadster is going out of production.) The Tesla will not be seen as a real family car, and if all you want is a limited-range commuter, a Leaf will do as well for half the price.

Brand will be a major part of the decision but right now they are way behind Fisker who's tech advantage is on par with Tesla. The problem with Tesla is that they don't have regenerative capabilities on the road (excluding braking) and their price is much higher verses the Karma. The Nina will be better priced also and will be made in the USA. America has a chance to recapture the lead globally with EVs and the auto industry. Especially with the bad taste in many's mouths regarding Toyota. The Leaf will hit the mass market the quickest but it's not that attractive and too small.

Care to elaborate on your hybrid? I'm interested if you want to email me more info.

"I mentioned the cold fusion as food for thought that there might be undiscovered magnetic potential in the nano world also."

This is just a follow up to my statement above. Here's more evidence that we are just begining to understand the nano world-

"New Haven, Conn. — Physicists at Yale University have made the first definitive measurements of "persistent current," a small but perpetual electric current that flows naturally through tiny rings of metal wire even without an external power source." The rest of the article-http://opa.yale.edu/news/article.aspx?id=6956.

As they say in the article, the problems before were that we couldn't see or measure what was happening in the nano world. That's all changed because now we can. It's just a matter of time before we scale these discoveries up and capitalize on their free or perpetual nature. However, one of the set backs in bringing the nano world discoveries into the usable micro world is getting them past the effect of gravity.

If I remember it correctly the sad thing about the whole 'Cold Fusion' debacle that got overlooked in the subsequent controversy over it is that there WAS some small amount of energy created where it otherwise hadn't been noted before and 'shouldn't of existed.' All of this got lost in the subsequent hullaballoo of it not being reliably reproducible by others. Even Fleischmann–Pons stated that they could not get the results constantly. This was indicative of some hereto unknown phenomenon.

This was indicative of some hereto unknown phenomenon.

Or more correctly:

This might have been indicative of some previously unknown phenomenon, flaws in the experimental technique, improperly calibrated equipment, etc.

Hi Blink,

Most definitely feasible. The amounts of energy involved were quite minor. As you say, it could readily be attributed to small errors.

Whichever it was, it was worth following up on it until a definitive answer was ascertained.

Numerous discoveries have happened through serendipity that initially were observed as 'minor inaccuracies' or were hitherto unaccountable results.

The first electrically conductive plastics were encountered when a Japanese university student mistakenly added ~ a thousand more times of one ingredient (an acid I believe it was) than they were supposed to in a standard organic chemistry experiment.

It is a well documented phenomenon of 'super conductivity' that they are able to induce an electrical current in materials in a closed loop (ie: a circle as opposed to an unconnected linear element with '2 ends') that are in a super conductive state and that they will persist for up to 2 years with no further electrical stimulation nor input. But try to 'use' that electricity (whatever it is that that REALLY means?) and is it gone (where?)

When I watched, it stopped in about 1 minute and 10 seconds.

The closest thing to perpetual motion is the number of times a P.M. thread has been started on CR4.

blog on the subject

A podcast several years ago offered a great example of perpetual motion...

Since a buttered slice of bread will always land butter side down, and a cat will always land on its feet, tying the slice of bread to the cat's back should produce perpetual motion one the cat is dropped...

Head in a whirl.

The expansion of the universe.

This is a personal example of perpetual motion.

When I was a kid I got one of those "drinking bird" toys. Wow, this must be perpetual motion I thought. It never stopped. I wish I knew how to access this free energy! Then years later (and after more schooling) I ran across an explanation of how they worked. Energy is added to the system by the evaporation of water from the birds bill, of course! I had not previously recognized that addition of energy before. It was not particularly apparent based on my knowledge. I use this as an example of my incorrect conclusion, the maker of the bird toy didn't claim perpetual motion.

The moral of the story is this: When someone claims they have a perpetual motion device the reason is probably that they have an ulterior motive (scam to get your money or admiration) and they know they don't have perpetual motion. We must have the right technical background to evaluate the claims. It may be a simple case that energy is added to the system in a way we do not understand or the system is loosing energy very slowly.

Did anyone ever figure out how Burt Rutan's huge clear plastic 'water-wheel' in his home that continually turns in spite of no apparent input in energy, but keeps on turning and running regardless, works?

He did have a cash prize for anyone that could figure it.

But I must have missed his personal invitation with transportation provided to come and have a go at it.

A recent article in Scientific American has an interesting article on Entropy. It's too late and I'm too tired to dig it up and post the info on it now but will do so later.

Re: Burt Rutan's large clear, plastic 'perpetual motion machine water wheel' that (is sealed? and) made out of clear plastic that he has (or had) a prize offered to anyone that could figure it out.

I'm thinking that it may be due to sunlight evaporating the water with in it that rises and then condenses on the colder plastic at the top and is perhaps channeled into the 'buckets' at the top of the water wheel making it heavier at the top and causes it to rotate. It is sitting in a very large central 2 story high alcove just inside the front entrance with lots of windows and light.

Years ago I posted a thread here on the idea that Black holes were possibly the mechanisms that 'create new universes'. More of a science than an engineer posting, but it did spark some interesting and serious discussions.

I'm remembering my physics classes in high school and university and the 'graph' that back many decades ago showed that at absolute zero matter and energy would cease to exist. Which theoretically has some validity as when you get right down to it all matter is just energy and all energy is just vibrations of some sort or other, so what is it when all of this completely 'stops'?

With modern technology having gotten incredibly close to absolute zero, I'm wondering what that 'graph' looks like now?

I've also been wondering how it is that they use lasers to achieve this 'cooling' by adding energy?

On a bit of an aside to this, but somewhat relative (pun intended). A scientist doing some 'pure research' (primarily aimed at 'Optical' computers and communications networks) working on utilizing light achieved and published results several years ago on being able to VERY SIGNIFICANTLY slow down the speed of light in the proverbial desktop 'black box. Her research has progressed to the point where she is no able to COMPLETELY STOP the LIGHT within it and then allow it to come back up to its normal phenomenal speed and carry on.

It is NOT a case of just 'blocking the light' and then creating it by some other means. But actually takes the same light, brings it to a complete standstill and then 'restimulates/reactivates it or ???? and it continues on out of her 'black box': the SAME light that went in! I want to know how this one works!

There's a mind blower : for me anyway!

Hi DougRH,

I think you are right about the way the waterwheel works. It is not perpetual motion because energy (sunlight) is added to it.

"I've also been wondering how it is that they use lasers to achieve this 'cooling' by adding energy?"

Here is a link that explains it. It is similar to stopping a merry-go-round by adding energy in the opposite direction, thereby cancelling out some energy.

"...she is no able to COMPLETELY STOP the LIGHT..."

I assume you meant NOW rather than NOT. This could be a similar process to the laser cooling. Just a guess, I have no experience in these matters.

-S

Hi SG,

Thanks, I'll check out the link. I knew how it worked at one point in time, but it is hardly something I use every day, so forgot all of the details.

Like MANY things, it all comes down to matter/energy/vibrations (which are all interchangeable aspects of the EVERYTHING!) and the phasing of them: 'Matter can neither be Created nor Destroyed, but only converted from one to the other.'

Not by us anyway, but it had to come from somewhere initially…..

An interesting paradoxical conundrum to the 'Second Law of Thermo Dynamics' that I posted info here on an article in Scientific American Nov. 2008 on it.

Yes, it's a typo.

Pretty phenomenal eh!?

The 'Light Throttle' phenomenon, not my typo (< 8)

How can lasers putting more energy into matter cool them to VERY close to absolute Zero?

As I said, this is somewhat of a mystery to me. But if I remember correctly it is done by adding energy into the matter and to excite the electrons to raise the energy in them above their normal orbits to a 'higher level of energy / larger orbital' than they normally are.

When the laser stop exciting them they drop back down into there normal lower energy state. But I have no idea how this cools them as they shed the same energy that added into them initially and then they return to their 'normal state'.

Obviously I am missing some crucial details of this process.

If anyone knows more details about this and can complete the picture and feels like doing so; please DO!

Infinity VS Entropy

OR

Does EVERYTHING run out of Energy in the End?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Will everything just get tired and run out of energy in the end?

This article from Scientific American sheds some insight and light on the seemingly relentless and inescapable 'Second Law of Thermo Dynamics'

Don't fret over it nor lose sleep over it as it's still MANY billions of years in the future yet.

We will all tire out long before our universe does.

But there is still LOTS of time for MANY numerous cycles of existence yet!

Scientific American: November 2008 p 62 – 67

Bar Code # 0 74470 38529 5 11

Speaking of Scientific American, check this out http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=shift-happens-will-artificial-photo-2010-03-03&sc=DD_20100304 and this http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=google-busting-out-breakthrough-sol-2010-03&sc=CAT_ENGYSUS_20100304 Not quite perpetual motion but much better than the current 35% efficiency that our power companies produce energy by now.

We ran on conventional energy for over 100 years and all of the sudden we're seeing revolutionary new power discoveries around every corner. Solar (power tower), Bloom Box, and now Dr. Nocera and photosynthesis splitting water. Don't forget, cold fusion is still on it's way. These are exciting times and oil will be obsolete before you know it. EVs will be here sooner than most think and EEstor has the tech necessary to make it mass producable and affordable. Throw in Boone Pickens trying to convert all of the trucking industry to natural gas and the Middle East will become insignificant.

Achieving grid parity with solar would be a wunnerful thing, but we're not there yet. Fossil fuels will remain the mainstay of our energy systems for the foreseeable future, like it or not.

But I like your enthusiasm.

So is would seem.

About a century ago claims were being made that 'We now know everything that there is to know about everything!' Quite a claim: nothing like folks that are arrogant about their ignorance.

Though with the current rising of awareness of the dire situation we are in on our planet, we are seeing a lot of new research initiatives into 'energy' arising.

'WE don't know WHAT we don't know!' If you take my meaning.

Along with the detrimental byproducts of burning fossil fuels for energy, those long chain carbon based molecules are so versatile and useful for so many things that it is almost 'criminal' to just burn them.

Before everyone jumps on me making the distinction between 'oil' per say and it's lighter 'gaseous' components such as butane, pentane, propane, and natural gas etc: I am aware of them already thanks.

Just making a point about 'priorities.'

Achieving grid parity with solar would be a wunnerful thing, but we're not there yet. Fossil fuels will remain the mainstay of our energy systems for the foreseeable future, like it or not.

The limited, (immediately) non renewable petrochemical energy sources will last much longer than most current estimates Sue. The reason for this? In a relatively short period of time there (necessarily) will be significantly less human beings on our planet to both consume and obtain it.

But I like your enthusiasm.

Still like my 'enthusiasm' that is tempered with a very large dose of unpalatable reality Sue?

It's not really enthusiasm per say: but stems out of the broad and deep appreciation for the dire situation we are in and the necessity to respond IMMEDIATELY to the massive all encompassing poisoning of all life on our planet that is bringing about mass global extinctions of all life forms on our home that are inherently very complexly interwoven and interdependent at a totally and completely hitherto unknown disastrous rate.

Thus as one who does see, understand and appreciates the extent and the impact of these circumstances dire I am accordingly acting responsibly out of necessity.

It is not a role that I would freely chose for myself, but one that is vitally and immediately necessary so I am reluctantly taking on this unpopular role out of a sense of higher responsibility.

Sue,Blink, others... please offer you insight concerning my additional post ,this concept of BEC I think you will all find as riveting as I have.

Doug, it is clear you are thinker and an innovater but please keep the thread on track. Please offer your insight on PM as it relates to BEC since this was the hidden agenda of my thread.

Sorry Time, I guess I'm guilty of off topic post as well. I read all the way through the BEC concept.

"I thought Einstein was always right."

"Not in this case. He was only sort of half correct, or maybe a little less. First, not all types of atoms actually follow the rules for Bose statistics".

That's a pretty bold statement. I've made several postings showing that they are just discovering perpetual potential in the nano world. Solar-http://media.caltech.edu/press_releases/13325, ring currents, and cold fusion. I still don't think that we have thouroughly investigated or completely understand the potential of magnetism. Further proof-

"Burkard Hillebrands, a physicist at the Technical University of Kaiserslautern in Germany, also praised the researchers for marrying previously disparate phenomena. Hillebrands says that spin waves have been studied extensively, but that instigating and detecting them via the spin Hall effect and its inverse "is a major breakthrough." Here's the whole article-http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=spin-waves-insulator&sc=DD_20100311

That's why I'm intrigued with your thread and continue to follow it in hopes that we'll find the energy discovery that frees us all from the grid.

I'm currently working on a method that combines synchronization and momentum of magnetism. What I'm working on has nothing to do with the nano world but that might be where I get the edge I need to make it all work.

Happy St. Patrick's day to you there Celtic cousin (< 8)

I'll respond to this posting in more detail later when my cat isn't sitting on my lap and I'm not doing 1 finger typing.

Also I want to look into the links you posted first.

No one really truly even knows what electricity is and magnetism even less so.

I've got very high efficiency electric motor in mind that only uses very powerful rare earth magnets and will not create any magnetic fields with electrical current traveling through conductive windings.

Though I am currently less certain of the results of this than I am of many other of my ideas; if it works like I think it will, it WILL produce more power than it takes to operate it. This is NOT a perpetual motion machine (I guess this means that I'm getting off topic again). The electrical power will only be controlling the dynamic interaction of the magnets. Thus the power output is relative to the power of the permanent magnets and NOT the electrical input.

If it has the kind of efficiencies and output that I think it may: it will greatly increase the broad usage, feasibility and viability of electric cars very quickly by virtue of the fact that it would not require anywhere near the type of electrical reserves to operate it. Thus the currently very significant excessive 'dead weight' of the huge quantities of batteries will be reduced from 1/2 a ton/ tonne to perhaps 1/2 or even 1/4 of the mass of batteries currently required. This of course will further be leveraged by the fact that it will reduce the dead weight of the battery pack by 1/2 ~ 3/4 which will make a very significant overall difference including allowing for lighter construction as it won't need the same strength to carry all the extra battery weight. Who knows, ther might even been room in electric cars for a couple of bags of grocries? A bonus!

As I have indicated, it is really too soon to say with this one, but I have a very good track record.

I'm trying to get the most feasible one into the market to create significant cash flow to start working on other things such as this motor which will have very significant impact. Obviously its usage will not be limited to vehicles. It can just as readily be utilized for anything requiring and utilizing electric motors. Though it is quite likely that it will be limited to larger motors because of the cost.

I look forward to delving into and probing this realm of BEC etc. with others here.

Mostly at this point what I currently have to contribute in this area at this point in time is my ignorance LoL (< 8) Though with time being 'relative'....

But then as they say, the beginning of all knowledge is that 'I do NOT know'

I can't remember what thread I posted it in, but I did pass along the conclusion that some scientists of the day were expounding on a little over a century ago when some of them proclaimed that "Science now knew and understood everything about everything that there is to know about!' My laughter just dislodged the cat. Which is good as one leg had fallen asleep. The rest of me will be following into the same state soon anyway.

I look forward to hearing your ideas and insights and based on the knowledge and info you have in this area.

How we doing there TT?

Obviously you have some relevant things to contribute in this area TT. When you get back from where ever and whenever you were you can let us know and chip in. Or are you able to be in two different time frames at the same time? Now there is a conundrum! Especially if 2, then it is quite likely that it would not be limited to just two. Geeze, one is hard enough as it is!

For those of you with a more philosophical and Spiritual orientation, it may interest you to know that humanity is it in the middle of SEVEN series of time cycles and intervals simultaneously at this point of our evolution, extending out to cosmological time frames. I usually type out the words 'the middle of the middle of ... but you get the idea.

The 'mysteries' of humanity are currently shifting from those of 'matter' to those of 'time'.

Personally I find this to be valid and true in my own experience.

If this is of interest to anyone, I have to admit that I am unable to expound on it clearly enough to provide validity of this (Surprise, surprise their eh Blinky! LoL (< 8) but will track down and provide the references and links to where the knowledge can be examined if anyone wants them.

Regards to one and all,

Doug

Finally: 'SAFE' nuclear power plants ARE on the horizon!

All life exists primarily because of 'nuclear energy.' But up until very recently I have never been a proponent of nuclear power on the surface of terra ferma as it was quite apparent it was way too dangerous and we have no effective means to cope with the aftermath. Till now, the ONLY safe place for it is where it already exists: in space or deep within the mantle of the earth.

Early proponents of nuclear energy power plants made claims that while the costs of building them in the first place was mammoth, that they would be so efficient and last so long that they would still be economical. In practice this most definitely has not proven to be the case. The radioactivity erodes the metals so that they are only good for about 20 years and then they are even more of a nightmare to dispose of all the irradiated materials on top off all of the VERY dangerous radioactive fuel, most of which the majority of the radioactive energy still remains in these materials .

I know how to dispose of the radioactive wastes: Build big 'air cannons' which are basically steel lined wells into the earth and come up with nose cones and stabilizing fins that are easily attached to 45 gallon drums and once a day when the earth is in the right position fire them off into the sun. Only after rigorous testing and confirmation of complete safety of course.

A couple of years ago Scientific American had a good article (alas I haven't been able to find it either online or in my collection which mostly has been donated to hospitals).

on the next generation of fissionable power pants and differ VERY significantly to all previous types. It is a slow (or fast?) neutron breeder reactor. Unlike current operational plants which are only able to utilize less than 5% of the radioactive materials energy and then leave us with no possible realistic safe methods of disposing this waste, along with all of the materials from decommissioned plants. Weapons grade materials can also be produced from this spent nuclear fuel.

The next generation ones utilize OVER 95% of the available fuel: it is recycled numerous times until almost ALL of the radioactive material is depleted. Leaving very little nuclear waste in comparison and it also only has to be stored for a few hundred years, as opposed to hundreds of thousands of years, which might be realistic.

The fuel including it's by products can NOT be utilized to make weapons grade nuclear material new generation of nuclear reactors! Hardly an insignificant fact.

Also these nuclear reactors would be buried in the ground with the top open at about ground level. If a major catastrophic failure occurs, the coolant will be released into the underground installation and which will flood the entire thing which will bring about cessation of the nuclear reactions.

Thus IF the current spent radioactive material left over that is now a nightmare with no way to realistically deal with it; IF this highly radioactive material can be used in this new generation of safe nuclear power plants we should KEEP IT and store it properly, safely and effectively and use it in these new nuclear power plants.

As most that are familiar with such matters will likewise be aware of, realistic Fusion power generation which has been under development for close to a century is getting to the point that it will be possible to have fusion power plants in the foreseeable future.

Given our present very urgent dire circumstances ALL current resources being poured into things such as space exploration and preferably nuclear weapons and everything else that is not directly related to saving life on our planet should ALL be focused on this vital cause that is already at the crisis point and is transpiring at a rate that requires nothing short of an all out global emergency should be focused on these.

To borrow a phrase from 'Midnight Oil': "How can you sleep when your beds are burning?"

Though it is not as immediately or readily apparent to most that one's own home on fire, our entire home IS in such a crisis and needs to be dealt with as such.

We need to very rapidly alter our priorities if we are to have ANY chance whatsoever of saving some, if not ALL, life on our planet from being totally and completely extinguished in a VERY short period of time on a geological or cosmological time scale.