Cockroaches

I do not think you have quite grasped the problem. I have billions of them to kill.

This is just one example of what we discovered in a tenant's apartment.

We have since found several units are infested like this or worse.

Don't understand how anyone can live like this but that is another whole story.

Now I am tasked with de-bugging the whole building. My first step was evicting a few tenants.

A good dusting of boric acid will take care of this- followed by a good cleaning.

I live in a downtown high rise building and my apartment and many others have cockroach bed begs problem and pets. I would like to get some of this if their not in apartment there are walking on the floors or going up walls.

Boric acid is safe for kids and pets and most other living things, and is very effective at eliminating cockroaches. My approach is to dust the entire area with boric acid, with special attention to cracks, areas under sinks and refrigerators, and other places the critters lerk. Boric acid apparently works by jamming up the joints in the exoskeleton. I do not know if it works for bed bugs...

Yes, works for bedbugs and many other bugs. I too had an apartment bldg and purchased a 25 pound bag from a chemical supply company.

The roaches and bedbugs walk thru the boric acid and it sticks to their feet. As they lick it off, it acts like glass in their stomach and rips the stomach apart.

Some landlords use a roller pin to make a powder. I have never done that but some claim it works faster and better. I simply use boric acid right out of the bag.

For home applications, you can get an 8 ounce bottle at your local grocery store or drug store or WalMarrt for a buck or two. It is a little over a dollar a pound in larger quantities

PEbobimm

Who's the imbecil who voted this off-topic?

Titi

I have no experience with this heating approach but frankly this seems bogus to me. Since all insects are cold blooded creatures, I would expect raising the temperature to only make them more active and thus easier for them to scamper out of a space that was too hot. Also since no residue remains, nothing will prevent their return. That being said, the best method I've heard of roach treatments though was meticulous thorough cleaning and making sure to limit their source of water.

Good Luck

The system works, as seen on that exterminator show on TV and a bit of information here.

http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/documents/TG/TECHGUID/TG208Supp.pdf

I quote a bit of it here.

2-7. Cockroach Behavior During the Heating Process.

a. Within a relatively short period of time (30 to 60 minutes) after initiating the heating

process, cockroaches will start exiting their harborages as the metal in the equipment and/or

building structure begins to heat. At first their movement will appear to be somewhat erratic;

however, as the air temperature within the interior of the enclosure and solid surfaces becomes

hotter, a majority of the cockroach movement will be to the cooler regions of the floor.

b. As the metal surfaces of equipment reach 115ºF and above, personnel should start

noting cockroaches beginning to die on the exposed metal surfaces. At this time, those

cockroaches capable of escaping the increasingly hotter harborages will seek refuge on the floor

in the more protected corners of the area, underneath larger equipment, and at the junction

between the plastic sheeting and floor. Cockroaches are capable of detecting relatively small

differences in temperature and air movement and will seek the least hostile environment. With

experience, pest control personnel will be able to anticipate the most likely areas for cockroaches

to congregate.

c. It is recommended that at various intervals throughout the heating process the pockets

of cockroaches should be vacuumed up and eliminated from the area being treated.

I can find lots of ads on line but not much technical info.

I don't know about this heat treatment - never heard of it.

The cockroach is a tropical beast. The scrawny variety that sometimes inhabits northern buildings is not at all winterproof. This I know. So a freezing treatment on the whole building would be expected to work. Such as, getting everyone to leave for a week in January, and turning all the heat off, and then sending in a cleaning crew. Don't know if this would work for bedbugs as well. But some combination of freezing and cleaning is your best bet for an actual extermination, as opposed to a temporary reprieve.

If it's warm enough for them to survive out, they will leave and return when the heat is done. The claim that heating 4-5 units a day will not cause a migration is crazy. I don't see how they can stop them from migrating - you as much as said that they are expected to congregate where conditions are more favourable and in this case, it's outside the 4-5 units in question, so..... Roaches go everywhere in a building, they spread from one apartment to another up down or sideways. A partial and stepwise approach is just not going to work.

From the pictures you showed, it seems like hell to live in this building. Complete extermination is very difficult to achieve. Maybe it would be best for the owner to torch it and rebuild.

They live in cedar trees.

Starting on top floor,kill everything,moving at a timed interval for each floor,while at the same time keep Killing power on two-three floors,moving down,,,,,finally remove any access points to structure,barrier EVERYWHERE the structure comes into contact to Mother Earth,,no trees brushing bldg,,no vines,no contact to another structure that touches earth,,I would use those Roach bombs one per room/apt(read directions),,,in fact the directions will tell you how long to air out before occupancy,,finally the barrier to earth.......I used a half Gallon of a chemical called Chlordane,high percentage.Last around 10-12 years,,here in central,rural,Texas,,LOTS of cedar trees also

Joe in Texas

Ah, thanks for that lil tidbit of info. Kind of handy to know.

Chlordane is so banned!

Though I admit my father splashed it everywhere, but even so, not a good idea.

Still sounds like an appropriate adjective for a roach.

Dip them in the finest tempura batter you can find, deep fry to a golden brown, rename them as slum-dog shrimp, and enjoy! As Euell Gibbons used to say for wild foraging, some parts are edible.

I was think more like chocolate covered.

3 Story 27 apartment building - whole complex maintaining at 140^oF (60^oC) for 4 hours. Do you think it will be practical ?

I really don't see really a practical non toxic method of controlling them except this or may be as a previous post says if you can not beat them, eat them (They are supposed to be very high in protein and tasty when deep fried, You can consult Bear Grylls, he is an expert in all these)

In fact the traps (even if it is for millions) may be better since after they are killed (whatever method) you have to retrieve their deadbodies. in case of the heat method, they may try to go out of the way and rest in the coolest place around. At least a couple of million of them, then it will be difficult to take them out.

If you turn everything off ... make SURE that your water lines are ALL empty in winter, or do it when temperatures aren't sub-freezing.

There's no way to burst a whole lotta piping than to shut off water pipes with water still in them. I victimized myself once when I seaed the heating vent to my garage once. The one pipe in there didn't survive a day.

Cheers! DZ

Actually you have three problems; cockroaches, bedbugs and tenants. About 20 years ago I bought a small 6 unit rental property in Georgia (USA) that was overrun with cockroaches. The tenants weren't taking their garbage out on a regular basis, the place was a pig sty of food scraps and dirty plates, etc. I kicked out ALL of the tenants and then spent six weeks of spraying in every nook and cranny for roaches. After six weeks I was roach and tenant free - - also my pocket book had taken a pretty good hit. I then brought in tenants whom I carefully screened. I also instituted two iron clad rules that if violated were grounds for eviction. One was that the garbage had to be taken out every evening to a nearby dumpster. If you eliminate the food source you eliminate a lot of your problem. The other was that I had the right to unannounced spot checks to see that rule number one was being observed. When I sold the property three years later we were still roach free. I kicked out two tenants during that period who had a problem realizing that taking the garbage out was important to keeping a reasonable lease in force. As to your bedbugs - - I've never been faced with that problem. From what I've read you're going to have to get rid of the mattresses as the bugs will migrate to the area between the box springs and the mattress if you start trying to kill them. They are parasites that litterally suck blood from there victims. I'd toss the mattresses.

I also agree 100% with Redfred. I think the heat treatment is a scam. At least in a building the size you have it is not going to work as the critters will simply migrate to a cool place somewhere else in the building. Good luck; but remember, if you don't change the tenants and their level of understanding that bugs don't congregate if they can't eat; then you're never going to solve the problem. Whichever tenant had the sink full of dirty dishes shown in your picture would be my poster child for evicted tenants.

To some species of lizards, roaches are a delicacy. Let some lizards loose in the building. They usually get along well with pets. After the roaches are gone, you can donate the well fed lizards to the local zoo.

Bedbugs do not respond to bait. They Like DDT. This is a tenacious pest and difficult to control in apartments and hotels. I would recommend the use of dogs trained to locate the pest, so you don't have to treat everything. The department of defense and other sources claim 46-49 Celsius 20-30% humidity for 20 minutes will kill bed bugs. Dry (hot) steam seems to kill on contact.

Neem oil is an excellent low-toxicity insecticide/repellent (watch Billy the Exterminator on A&E). Diatomaceous earth is probably the best, safest product to kill insects.

Visible roaches can be squirted with Neem oil (mixed with detergent and water). Hidden roaches are best killed with bait gel. Use lots of it. It is usually composed of Boric acid and/or Diatomaceous earth mixed with a sweetener. Keep the premises clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boric_acid#Insecticidal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth#Pest_control

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_oil#Repellent_and_biopesticide

I searched ebay "neem oil 1 gallon" by price: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360089489125&rvr_id=&crlp=1_263602_263622&UA=L*%3F%3F&GUID=358d429f1260a0aad4a1c871fe566be3&itemid=360089489125&ff4=263602_263622

I have also heard of using the sugar as bait mixed with the boric acid. I also know that you will have to deal with the 1% that survive and breed for a few generations. But this should save you enough money by doing this to allow you to purchase a replacement mattress for the tenants and charge them 1/2 price and make you look lake the good guy. THAT will help the tenants want to work with you. One tenant that thinks they want to get even with you can spill a 12 oz bottle of soda in a stairwell and set you back 6 months. Good luck.

IMHO there are too many areas that you will not be able to get hot enough to kill a very high percentage of the breeding population. Areas such as the electrical outlets in the walls, and assess holes for pipe runs will provide many cool areas for roaches to hide.

Boric acid in a liquid

works on ants

observe what food the insects in question prefer, add to a solution with as much boric acid will stay in suspension.

successive generations some times switch food sources

Thanks all.

Some interesting information here to digest and I'm beginning to think the heat treatment may not be my answer in a building this size.

We have definately decided that the tenants are the first problem. This is a condominium where the owners have rented their units out. In Alberta the condominium laws outrank the landlord tenant laws which is good for us. As the condo board we basically have unlimited power to evict tenants. Luckily no condo owners live like the people responsible for those pictures. The tenants who lived in the unit pictures are already gone and we are scheduling inspections of every unit in the next week or so. I will be armed with preprinted eviction notices and a camera.

Thinking now that first clean out the tenants. Then clean up the building. Then begin a long term repeated chemical attack and spread either the boric acid or diatomaceous (spelling?) earth all around. The earth scratches their exoskeleton causing them to dehydrate and die and it is entirely non-toxic to pets or kids.

Thanks again for your input

"most cost effective basis"

How will evicting tenants effect the income for the building? Perhaps it would be better to do an aggressive approach to the currently vacant units, and work on compliance from the occupied units.

Well to be honest that is not really my concern. The Condo Board has been ordered by the health department to "clean up the problem" so complying with that order is our primary concern. In order to clean up and keep the place cleaned up, tenants who live in conditions we have seen will make the second part of that impossible. Keeping your residence in conditions like that are a violation of our health laws as well as the condominium laws and our buildings bylaws.

The owners who rent out their units actually want to sell them, so it is in their best long term interests to take a hit in the pocketbook now and make their units saleable.

Now how do I put this delicately? The tenants who are responsible for conditions like those pictures are ummmmm "of a culture" that finds nothing wrong with living with a few six legged friends. Time to move-em-out and bring in a new population of properly screened and referenced tenants.

"...beginning to think the heat treatment may not be my answer in a building this size."

You can certainly use the heat treatment on the mattresses and sofas of existing tenants. (Place item in treatment bag.) This eliminates the use of chemicals to treat a surface that the tenant is in continuous contact with 1/3 of their life. The balance of bedbug infestation can be treated chemically.

Bedbug infestations have little to do cleanliness or tenant hygiene.

Hi Apothicus,

If you have some statistics about the survived/killed when you apply the "heating system", it will be appreciated. Boric acid works close to 100% when applied all around the apartment or house. Let us know, Gil.

Ah, what does the mumbo jumbo of psionics and sympathetic vibrations have to do with cockroaches and bed bugs?

I tried to spare anyone who had an adverse reaction to this the trouble of reading the whole interview. The last paragraph is about ridding a tree of worms. Worm... cockroaches... critters, no?

Couldn't help notice your sig. How very true. A corollary may be: "All that is required for ignorance to succeed is for intelligent men to do nothing."

I somewhat posted the interview link with a light-hearted intent. Your problem seemed so massive, this just came to mind when reading it. No offense meant.

If this thread and forum was about possible avenues of research, then I can see your point that unproven techniques should be explored for any endeavor. But this forum is an Engineering forum. Engineering works hand in hand with scientific work in two ways. First, Engineers design and build the machines that permit scientific research. In building these machines an Engineer must be capable of providing all pertinent precision and reliability information to validate the information provided by that machine. Second, the proven scientific theory and methods discovered by these machines now provide the tools that an Engineer uses to build machines for all who desire a new machine.

So while this maybe very useful research that may one day help somebody with an insect infestation, it is certainly not an approved method today.

Anyone have any idea the costs to tent and fumigate a building? I'm currently reading some sucess stories about Vikane. Usually used to treat bedbug infestations (which we have also) but it says it kills roches too.

I have never had to mix boric acid with anything. I first discovered it as a valuable insecticide while living in Texas with a number of dogs- after trying all the conventional methods (bombs, dips, spray the yard, some insecticides of questionable legality that were available from across the border, etc.), someone finally told me to sprinkle the carpet with boric acid, and don't vacuum for a couple of weeks. Fleas gone. Never to return. Apparently, the new hatchlings could not survive with boric acid around. Later, problem on my sail boat (not a whole lot to eat on my sail boat, but lots and lots of roaches). Boric acid dusted all over the boat. No more roaches for a couple of years. First roach I saw, more boric acid. No more problems. Since then, I have moved in to a couple of different appartments- all apartments are infested with cockroaches. Before moving my belongings in, dust the place with boric acid. Straight. No sugar, no liquid, nothing but boric acid (well, the stuff I buy is 99.8% boric acid, balance inert material, about $2.00 for a container about the size of a liter bottle). Well, a few months ago, I suddenly had a strange invasion- day time, disoriented roaches- big ones, not usually found in a residence. And lots of them. Out with the boric acid- no help. About four or five days after the invasion started, we had a significant earthqake. After the earthquake, no more roaches...I don't know for sure if this is a new way to predict earthquakes or not, but I have heard that the Japanese keep roaches in cages to predict earthquakes...

Anyway, you do not have to mix boric acid with anything- it does the job, and a whole lot cheaper than more obnoxious chemicals or heat treatment or whatever. In my experience, it has been quick. There does not appear to be a problem with roaches migrating next door because of exposure to boric acid.

I have not had the same results with ants. Maybe if I mixed it with sugar, it would work with ants. My solution for ants is fresh ground black pepper. Drives them nuts, they never return. I don't know if fresh ground pepper would work with roaches or bed bugs. I suspect, knowing how boric acid works, it might be effective against bed bugs- but you have to dust the mattress, the bed springs, and any other surfaces they might inhabit to be effective...

Friends,

Seems the majority all support boric acid. Interesting stuff--also a very good wood preservative and fire preventive chemical when wood gets impregnated with the stuff. (No rot, no mold, no mildew, no insects.)

I add one suggestion: Take time to be tedious about sealing holes and cracks, such as wherever a cabinet meets the wall, inside and outside of every cabinet, etc. They like to hide and when I have sealed all the cracks in a building, the roach problem is generally gone also. This will require a large amount of caulk and a lot of care to apply it in a way that is not ugly.

I toss out one "off the wall" idea: If tenting the building and fumigating it with a poison is an effective method, what about possibly tenting it and filling it with carbon dioxide. This will dissipate in air and is non-toxic in the normal concentrations we breathe. It is a naturally occurring chemical. I have no data, but I suspect that insect infestations will be killed by even 15-30 minutes of this treatment, both roaches and bedbugs.

--JMM

but I suspect that insect infestations will be killed by even 15-30 minutes of this treatment, both roaches and bedbugs.

That includes tenenta too .

Purchase food grade Diatomaceous sprinkle were ever you see trails that roaches as for bed bugs you will have to sprinkle between mattress . Hope you have luck . Jerry