I have some sample fields where, organic farming is experimented:

1. One near Kolhapur of Maharashtra India, where it has been proved that the Sugar Cane fed with organic fertilizers can give equal yield as that of other fields near around based on chemical fertilizers, with 50% amount of water. The field size experimented is not a small experimental size, but it is tried in huge 1100 acre field.

2. In other area of Yavatmal, Maharashtra (India), there were many cases of suicide case of farmers, because of reducing yields and going in more and more debt. This was happening due to degradation of soil in the field due to chemical fertilizers and subsequent over watering of the fields. Some activist, who strongly believed that organic farming may solve this problem, started promoting organic farming. Now, situation is improving, with reductions in suicide cases. The some farmers have openly challenged "Show the pests and get the award". Organic farmings has resulted in less pests. This is because, whenever pests are there, some other pest will eat away the original pest, protecting the yield.

3. There are huge fields around my location, where use to chemical fertilizers and subsequent higher water requirements, has made the fields fully salty and useless. Not even grass grows on such fields. These can only be recovered if organic fertilizers are used.

4. Do we know what are the effects of chemical fertilizers and pesticides on us on long term over our life? Rachel Carson has already warned us. We are to accept her findings or suffer from these chemicals. I know, based on her findings, many chemical pesticides are already banned. But are we inventing some other of same type and just be blindfold for the materialistic profits of few?

Good response! Organic small sustainable agriculture is I believe the hope of the future.

We need to get the people out of the cities and back out on the farms.

Government subsidising corporate petro chemical agriculture is a bad thing.

Rotating fields, rotating crops, hedge rowing, promoting weeds, letting chickens run are all helpful. I like to water the weeds to see just how good, how beautiful and how big I can make them, that way they just chock themselves out. Doing that attracts wild birds, insects and that helps. Cultivation is not good. Just plant the seed and stomp the weeds. One other thing is we need to stop building urban sprawl housing on good farm land.

So how big is your lawn?

Many years ago, (1987 I think) I read an article comparing 2 adjacent wheat farms in Washington State.

One was organic and had been for many generations (100years? - not sure), the other conventional.

In a good year, the conventional farm slightly out produced the organic one, but not by much.

In a poor year, the organic farm produced a better crop.

Overall not much difference in production, but the organic farm was a little cheaper to run, so it's overall profitability was a little better.

The topsoil on the conventional farm was about 3/4" thick. On the organic farm it was feet thick (I think about 6', but that may well be wrong).

A friend of mine is an organic wheat farmer in Western Australia.

He was doing well for many years, but weeds finally beat him and I think he had to revert to using "roundup".

Weeds and pests are the big problems with large scale organic farming.

The biggest plus seems to be that it continually improves soil structure and fertility, leaving the land in a continually improving condition.

It may depend on the crop. Here in the US, much of our agribusiness is corn based; that corn feeds a significant part of the world's population. Organic yields are typically lower than chemical yields, although pilot projects have given similar yields. The downside is that these pilot projects require exception weather, extra tilling (thus more petroleum use), and close monitoring.

I suspect that, even if we could go organic, the price of corn would rise substantially. If corn went, for example, to just $4.50, people start to go hungry.

A better approach might be the sustainability model, in which the bare minimum of fertilizer, pesticide, and herbicide are used. If done carefully, leaching and runoff are essentially zero. Water quality remains OK and the food is safe to eat. But, even this requires smaller farms than what seem to be our future.

It is possible that GMO seeds will enable practices closer to organic, but these have their own pitfalls.

Interesting, can you cite some of those pitfalls ?
Yahlasit

Just Google "GMO problem". There are a ton of diverse views and you ought to make up your own mind.

Most of the problems there are in agriculture today are said to be related to the way we cultivate the land, and that is the monoculture. See this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=72782543179619401 This could be part of the solution to the problem, a quite a big part.

Ecoli???

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfbmd/diseases/ecoli_o157h7/index.html#my_infect

Are the Ecoli outbreaks in lettuce and other veggies that are consumed raw from farms that use manure as fertilizer? I would think composting would kill off the bacteria but I don't know that for a fact. Growing up we never composted before spreading manure on the crops. As late as the early eighties I know this was still the practice in southwest Indiana, USA. Farmers keeping live stock seemed to be the only ones using manure. That was so they could clean out the cattle lots and barns. Turkey manure from larger turkey farms is also being used. It was and I guess still is cheaper than chemical fertilizers. I have been out of farming for quite some time now so I do not have any current numbers on costs.

The way I understand it you need to spread the manure out in the fall and let it freeze through the winter. I was told to cover the garden in the fall, and turn it in as early as possible before I planted the next season. This is to kill off much of the hazardous bacteria and parasite risk.

Friendly wave from Corydon, IN

Crop rotation and leaving some ground fallow for a year, tilling compost in the fallow land for the year.

One of the biggest challenges to increasing the yields of organic produce is the control of nematodes, with organic methods. Is there a substitute for methyl bromide?

one of the keys to maximum yield is suppressing or eliminating competitors & reducing pests.

Is there a substitute for methyl bromide?

Yes...you will find this very economical and interesting:

Entomopathogenic nematodes are extraordinarily lethal to many important soil insect pests, yet are safe for plants and animals. This high degree of safety means that unlike chemicals, or even Bacillus thuringiensis, nematode applications do not require masks or other safety equipment; and re-entry time, residues, groundwater contamination, chemical trespass, and pollinators are not issues. Most biologicals require days or weeks to kill, yet nematodes, working with their symbiotic bacteria, kill insects in 24-48 hr. Dozens of different insect pests are susceptible to infection, yet no adverse effects have been shown against nontargets in field studies (Georgis et al., 1991).

http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/ent/biocontrol/pathogens/nematodes.html

Soil fertility, pH, texture and nematodes

posted on May 14, 2009 13:21

Fred Warner
Diagnostic Services

In a recent Field Crops CAT Alert newsletter, Dr. Warncke submitted an article entitled, "Effects of cutting back on potassium." After reading that article, I got motivated to write this one. Since virtually all plant-parasitic nematodes spend some time in the soil and it is the medium in which plants grow, I thought I would address the influence various edaphic factors have on nematodes and their impacts on plants.

http://ipmnews.msu.edu/fieldcrop/fieldcrop/tabid/56/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/287/Soil-fertility-pH-texture-and-nematodes.aspx

I did simplify

not all nematodes are bad

there are also fungal treatments to increase the yeild of some crops

not as easy as nuking the soil with MB

using black plastic or steam are a couple of other methods

Simplification of a complex organism such as soil/soil health is a convenience only to those nuking.

The nuking you describe negates any even remote opportunity to develop healthy soil after the nuking not unlike an expectation of tissue to respond normally after heavy radiation treatments have destroyed their functionality.

Let's use the high tech we have developed to maintain healthy soils that do not require such extreme measures for high production farming. The benefits are using less water, petroleum based chemicals and providing a safe work environment for farm workers.

The by-products and waste of conventional farming is substantive by comparison.

Think back to a past time when the prairies were cut by the first plows and the rich bounty that was produced. The prairie was not in need of MB, what have we lost through our arrogant methods and use of chemicals? We lost much due to poor or non-existent crop rotation schedules too.

As our economy continues to implode much domestic labor becomes available.

You understand why i brought it up then

Organic methods require more of a seemingly scarce resource, thought...

regionally the Hmong immigrants have been successful growing labor intensive crops like strawberries.

I've been watching a local field [close to merced] over the past year or so. 1st the grapes were removed, then pomegranates planted. This spring they planted peas between the trees, to build the soil.

There has certainly been some changes over the past 20 years I've been in the area. the land between the rows in orchards & vineyards was almost universally kept bare, both chemically & mechanically. The use of different cover crops is much more widespread now.

On my own property, mixing the compost from the horses with ashes from the burn piles generated by clearing brush [to reduce fire danger] is quickly building fertile soil.

A few resources:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm#gecrops

http://www.cornucopia.org/faq/

http://organicconsumers.org/

http://www.prwatch.org/

to me the GMO issue is much more serious

Monsanto would like to have complete control of the seed market

Agreed...

The problem extends to other crops

The logging of the trees in this area replaced a diverse ecosystem of redwoods, cedar & oak.

with forests dominated by ponderosa pines which are unfortunately more susceptible to bark beetles.

another discussion is diversity vs mono cropping

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd-48Zw0Tr4

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