This by itself is very easily done: all you need to do is to use the hydraulic system to drive a generator. The real problem is this one: what will you use to drive your hydraulic pump, a diesel engine or an electric motor? If it's the former, why not use it to power the generator directly, and if it's the latter, why use electricity to power a hydraulic pump to drive a generator when you can simply use the electricity itself directly?

The bottom line is this: while what you propose to do is doable, it's not feasible to do it.

Hi DVader,

Thanks for the reply, (I wish the attachment showed on my original post), the rotary hydraulic pump will be driven by 12 or 24volts battery or could be a 5 kW portable generator, then the hydraulic pump will pump the hydraulic fluid to Rotary hydraulic motor and drive the transducer gear box low RPM input with 1500 RPM output that can drive the 500 kVA generator.

In short, you will produce first electricity power of 5 kW generator to drive the hydraulics system, which will drive generator to produce more higher kW capacity. something like running of small generator to generate power, But at the end you will producing 400 kW. if this can be done then huge of savings can be achieved.

At the moment, my consumption to run 300 kW load will cost me 71 liters/ hour or 1,704 a day of diesel by running my 360 kW diesel generator. Where as if the system I am talking about is possible then I would be only consuming most probably 50 liters a day.

Hope I answered your question.

Thanks Idol

Roman

Using a 5kw generator to run a 500kw generator? Clever. Why hasn't anybody else thought of that?

You are deluding yourself by adding irrelevant itermediate hydraulic stages.
If you connect a 500kVA generator to a 5kW generator, it will work fine...

UNTIL you start drawing a load greater than 5kw, then the 5kw generator will simply stall/trip/burn out etc.
It's very simple, you can't get out more than you put in.
Del

Hi Del,

Thanks for your time in replying on my post, for sure I'm not deluding myself as I am thinking to do it with a purpose. I can remember few months ago when I start converting our 15 toner barge consuming 300 liters of Petrol to come across to the mainland to pick up food stuff, fuel etc, people and even my co managers are negatively commenting same as what you mentioned, they saying I am just wasting my staff time and the company money in doing things that will not gonna work! the more they criticize my idea and project the more I feel excite and challenge, take note when the barge put back to the water for testing, all managers are there and watching, the next day one of them ask me if he can join the trip to the mainland as there was no available seat for him in the plane (our island hotel charter). enjoying the trip with me for only 60 liters of Diesel round trip consumptions!!! same speed with the old petrol system.

Probably on my post lack of detailed due to no design drawing for a little bit clearer view, anyway thanks.

Roman

I genuinely wish you luck, Roman, and admire your resolve. Remember, one of the few certainties in science and technology is that even the greatest of experts (even Einstein) will eventually be proven wrong with one thing or another. When pushing the boundaries and thinking outside the box, the difficulty is knowing which possibilities are worth pursuing and which are not. Just beware of the laws of physics.

Hi Holzf,

Appreciated your comments and many thanks

Kind regards

Roman

Hello Roman, I'm sorry to tell you that what you have in mind is impossible. It's impossible to use a power supply of a certain size (e.g. 5kW) to drive a mechanism to drive a generator to produce far greater output (e.g. 400kW) than the original power source. The reasons for this are many:

1. Frictional resistance in the drive mechanisms etc
2. Mechanical inefficiencies
3. The simple fact that a high capacity generator is much bigger and heavier than a small one and will require much greater torque to turn it than a small motor can produce
4. Electrical resistance in the power cables etc.

What the above all add up to mean is that even if you manage to drive the generator, the actual output will be much lower than the original input power.

Where exactly is this generator of yours? If you are located near a small but fast flowing mountain stream, it would be much better for you to invest in a micro-hydroturbine to generate your electricity instead. Even if the water flow cannot support a turbine that would meet your peak hour needs, at least it will greatly reduce your energy bills by supplementing your present generator, and if can produce enough to meet your offpeak or nighttime needs, then you will get substantial savings from it.

Alternately, if you are located in a very hot dry area, then you may want to consider using a stirling engine to drive a generator instead. You can either power it using any waste heat you have (cogeneration) or you can focus a large amount of sunlight onto it to drive it. You can do this at fairly low cost using a battery of parabolic reflectors. This arrangement can even work at night if you have a heat reservoir such as a very large tank of saturated brine or mineral oil.

It's good to think outside the box, but when coming up with unconventional ideas, you should still take into account the laws of physics when evaluating them. Good luck to you on developing your alternative energy project.

Hi DVader,

Thank you very much for a very informative, detailed and positively response. I really appreciate and it make all sense for me.

I have drastically dropped my energy for almost 50% (both in kW and US$ figures), as in the the past few years our energy cost average of US$80,000 a month. for 6 months now we are only spending average of US$39,000 a month as I considered myself as having great ability in energy management. However I am still looking other alternative way which is not commonly used. I agree with you that my Idea is impossible but I just would like to try even small capacity, soon as I finish my project, whether successful or not will update you. I am in a very isolated Island resort and feel more boring if i will not going to do something impossible. so I will try to push through with it. if I fail then what for $1,000, better than to loose by betting in the cock fight arena and prove nothing.

Again thanks

Roman

How many people stay at your resort on the average? If there's quite a number of people, then you can use toilet and food wastes to generate biogas. The biogas in turn can be used to generate electricity either by boiling water to drive a steam turbine or by burning it to power a stirling engine to drive a generator. The residual non-volatile solids can finally be dried and used as compost for growing organic vegetables for your guests. This will help you to reduce your operational bills through reduced food bills as well.

DaS gave some very good suggestions such as harnessing the energy of the tides to power a generator. Oh yeah, tropical beaches are usually very windy, so you may want to consider using wind turbines as well.

Hi DVader,

Both thanks again to you an DaS much appreciated.

Kind regards

Roman

DVader1000,

I must generaly agree, however that is correct for direct coupling only.

Small motor pump will provide suficient volume to head storage for a hydro turbine of greater output than the small motor pump. This allows for high loads for a limited period of time.

The Stirling engine you speak of was surpassed by the DaS Valve piston engine in which all moving part is liquid, and the engine is heat driven. Personal choice when playing with Stirling engines is the use of Iso Butane in place of air. Easily controlled and delivering greater power.

The DaS Valve piston engine being surpassed by the gas hydraulic turbine.

Both are Open Technology.

Cheers Peter

Interesting. Do you have any third-party test reports (such as dynamometer results)on the output and efficiency of these inventions? Or understandable drawings, explanations, and even just preliminary calculations? So far all I have seen is just gobbledygook, and a bucket on a stand, presumably with a burner beneath.

Oppss Idol Tornado, if I'm correct that question is for DaS, as my proposed project was only just from my crazy imagination. mine was got drawing (although didn't show), small explanation but definitely no calculation.

Thanks in joining in.

Roman

Tornado,

Australian developers quickly learn there thee class of people.

1/ The serious developer.

2/ The tourist.

3/ The time waster.

Hydro electric power generation is common. If you have a free source of Hyraulic energy then doubtless it can be extracted.
Del

Hello Roman.

Many alternate little known do exist. Much has developed since the steam turbine was run on Iso Butane in place of water, see NZ Geothermal and Oaklahoma University.

Iso Butane itself being replaced with Co2 in later development.

Gas Hydraulic Turbine this site is one example.

Cheers Peter.

Roman,

Had the similiar problem myself. Cut and paste your drawing into paint or my documents. Then click on cammera that appears attop CR4 response form. Browse click, then click my documents or paint, when the file opens click on drawing and it will upload to site.

Cheers Peter.

Thanks on both DaS.

Roman

Roman,

Living on an island gives you acces to the sea, its currents, waves and rock splash maybe. So much energy so easy to capture and all at no cost to run.

Wave action provides many form of pump using up down stroke of float rise and fall on wave crest and trough.

Ocean current turbine anchored to sea floor.

Rock plash using pent up energy of wave break on rocks being vented through a turbine.

Any fresh or sea water stream flow. AAAGGGHHH it just keeps on going on.

All providing electricity 24/7.

Cheers Peter

Roman,

You also mention some form of people housing. The amount of recyclable energy they produce down the toilet is phenomimal, takes care most of your fuel needs.

The piston engine drive of your barge can be converted to many form of different fuelling, ranging from recycling Ammonia to recycling Co2 using air temperature for heating and sea water for cooling.

Any means of energy capture to lift water and allow its return through hudro turbine generator produces electricity.

What is the longatude-latitude or name of your Island.

Cheers Peter

Roman,

My old grey matter aint what it used to be, slower now.

Island surrounded by tidal water. Cheapest power generation 24/7 is drag line pump/turbine.

Windlass operating by drag line attached to sea sock being pulled onto or out from shore by rising/falling tide action. The slow pace of tidal movement is not a problem due to windlass diameter. Windlass attached to possitive action pump lifts water to storage head from where its return drives a hydro turbine.

Cheers Peter

Hi DaS,

What a brilliant idea. However i think that will cost a lot of money and I have no capability to design or build at all. whilst on what I'm trying to build as experimental was cost me a little as I got some old spare 500 kVA alternator, what I need to buy only is hydraulic pump and hydraulic rotary driven motor (same same like what the lifting crane got) if he can rotate and lift more than 5 tons load, I am thinking why he can't rotate the gear transducer with the output of 1500 rpm to drive the alternator. the concept actually where I am taking was from the crane hydraulic rotary motor.

One thing I would like to do using this concept was to put it on my small boat (5 toner capacity), design and put hydraulic rotary motor driven boat propeller, my imagination sound crazy but, I think it will work.

Wish me luck DaS! and will update all on this forum the outcome of my crazy imagination. also maybe by that time I can be able to copy paste the picture of my project so everyone can see.

Kind regards

Roman

Hello Roman,

I think I am getting you. The idea I understand to be sea sock? for electricity.

The Ammonia , or Iso Butane, or Co2 piston or rotary engine for your boat.

Sea sock drag line operation requires pullies and a 44 gallon drum to act as windlass.

Sea sock itself may be any material.

Plans for Ammonia, Iso Butane, Co2 piston engine date back to 18th Centruary.

18th Centruary used Ammonia in street trams.

Turbine construction requires length of pipe, pipe cutter, file, and welder.

Boiler construction requires the same.

Cheers Peter

Hello Roman,

May have it know,

1/ You seek rotation of generator using other rotational device. The means of rotaing the secondary rotating device needs be established.

Windlass or turbine provide two form of such.

Do you have any other ideas in mind?

Cheers Peter

Hi DaS,

Really thanks for your time. Yes that is what I am looking at to drive the alternator (500 kVA) using Hydraulic rotary motor and this hydraulic rotary motor will be driven by hydraulic pump. although if the hydraulic motor come with low speed then I will fit the transducer with 1500 rpm output to cope up the required speed of alternator.

Many thanks.

Roman

Roman,

Think about direct couple hydraulic pump, itself a Hydraulic turbine, to alternator.

Think about how you drive the hydraulic pump.

How you drive the hydraulic pump determines at which RPM it runs at.

Peter

Hi DaS,

Here we are getting closed to what I need, the hydraulic pump will be driven by the diesel engine, say 9.0 HP, as of course the RPM of the 9.0 HP has the relation with the hydraulic motor driving the hydraulic gear box to drive the alternator to produce and stabilize at 1500 RPM probably we must fit with pressure regulation valve or what ever appropriate pressure control we can recommend, which regardless the hydraulic pump speed supplied higher on the requirement this pressure can be regulate by this PRV and maintain the desired transducer gear box output of 1500 RPM.

Here, thanks for the tips on how to paste a drawing, have a look from my crazy imagination. (hope will show this time).

Direct coupled 9.0 engine to the hydraulic pump, pump the hydraulic fluid to hydraulic motor which is also direct coupled to transducer gear box and the transducer gear box will drive the 500 kVA alternator.

I wish all can now imagine if my crazy imagination project will work or any suggestion to improve if any lacking from the system set up.

If my 500 kVA alternator is too much for the system then maybe smaller capacity as I also have 110 kVA junked as well as 135 kVA, or if any one with great knowledge and expertise concluded that this is not feasible i will proceed to apply to my boat with the same concept, except propeller will be driven and not the 500 kVA alternator. at least instead of consuming 300 liters for 2 engines to go across to the mainland then it will maybe consumed 10 liters of diesel to drive the hydraulic motor with at least 5000 RPM is achievable. ended up with a great savings!

Thanks for everybody's time, wish me luck.

Kind regards

Roman

Roman,

I seriously do wish you luck. Things that cant be done in time become things that have been done.

Your Diesel engine is 9 Hp. To date that will drive a alternator not needing greater than 9 Hp to drive it.

Any device you put between the Diesel engine and the Alternator will reduce the Hp going to the alternator.

Do you know how to make Methane from recycle? Replacing your fuel bill can be less dearer than constructing alternate energy device.

Cheers Peter

Hello Roman, I am very familiar with appropriate technology and the recycling of unwanted old stuff into new things. Please post a list of everything that you don't require anymore here and then let's see what we can salvage from them to create your new alternative energy generator, shall we?

Hi DVader,

Thanks, it is very great! As I said on the above I have 110 kVA, 135 kVA and 250 kVA junked in my generator yard, all of the alternator is still good, however 2 of the radiator are all damaged, the where the 250 kVA I am planing to convert and use to my another crazy imagination of hot water system boiler using natural gas which very cheap in operation cost rather than using electric geyser where it cost me US$ 0.319 per kWh.

If you can shared us your great idea to make these alternator usable, it would be great and appreciated.

Kind regards

Roman

Roman,

Speak with DVader1000. Natural Gas. Put bluntly you shit it every day.

Cheers Peter

Sorry for the late reply; screwed-up internet connection where I am. Okay, you can easily make reflectors using plywood or anything similar and the shiny side of aluminum foil. If you have an old unwanted boiler, you can mount this on a frame and use several reflectors to focus sunlight onto it; the more the merrier. This will enable you to use the heat energy of the sun to boil water and produce steam. By passing the steam through a venturi nozzle into your hydraulic motor turbine, you might be able to get sufficient torque to spin in, possibly even enough to generate electricity. If you can't get enough steam, then increase the amount of heat energy collected. Now all you need to do is to top up your water supply to your boiler regularly, and you can do this at low cost using a hydraulic ram that you can fabricate yourself if you have enough waste pipes.

Hi DVader,

Very interesting, should you mind to send a process flow diagram on how build and generate heat on what you recommend. another brilliant idea that probably I can build. I have too much sunlight/heat energy in my location, The company can buy solar system although it is more interesting and challenging in doing things crazy workable and useful in terms of savings utilizing scrap materials.

could you please send me the simple process design drawing.

Kind regards

Roman

Okay. In the mean time, check out the following website for some really brilliant ideas: http://www.greenpowerscience.com/.

Roman,

Just a thought if the engine driving you alternator is Diesel, they are the easiest engine to convert to Methane gas. Need only change the valve settings.

People power is a wonderfull thing, the more you feed them the more fuel you have to generate electricity.

Cheers Peter

Roman,

I do not think Del and the others are trying to discourage you in your attempts to conserve energy and be more productive.

What they are saying you are wasting your time with is trying to get more power out than goes in. You can not put in only 1 kW and expect to get out more than 1 kW. And it's generally not reasonable to even expect to get 1 kW out either as pretty much nothing in energy/power conversion is 100% efficient.

Hi JBT,

Thanks for your comments, as Del's comments for me is fine and nothing wrong with it and I took it positively as I am one of Del's avid readers each time he got response on any members or guest, as I considered him as one of talented member in this room like my Idols DVader and Sparkstation (where I didn't see anymore in the forum). for me it is encouraging comment to strive more and think more on what i'm trying to do. I am pretty much happy to hear discouraging but positive comments from people that I believed more knowledgeable and experience like them as they got all the point that make sense.

Thanks

Roman