Internet Danger

If the information is secret, then I certainly don't know anything about it.

i have 5 US patents to my name (You can search USPTO if you know how). How about you my anonymous friend ?

You need to research before you speak. You are embarrassing yourself! Wiki needs to be your best friend.

Indians Invented:

Buttons, Corrosion-resistant iron, Cotton Gin, Crucible steel, Dental drill, and dental surgery, Dice, Dike, Dock (maritime), Dyeing, Furnace, Hospital, Iron, Oil spill, micro organisms as treatment of, Optical fiber, Oven, Pajamas, Plastic surgery, Plow(animal-drawn), Prefabricated home and movable structure, Private bathroom and Toilet, Rocket artillery, iron-cased and metal-cylinder, Sewage collection and disposal systems, Shampoo, Swimming pool, Universal Serial Bus.

Chinese Invented:

Paper, Printing, Book binding, Gunpowder, Compass, Bell, Coffin, Noodles, Rice, Salt, Silk, Soybean, Automatic opening doors, High-alcohol Beer, Belt drive, Blast furnace, Bomb(cast iron), Deep bore hole drilling, Toothbrush, Calender year at 365.2425 days, Cast Iron, Chain drive, Chromium for corrosion resistance, Coke as fuel, Crank handle, Crossbow, Escapement (use in clockworks), Exploding cannonballs, Fireworks, Fishing reel, Gas cylinder, Inoculation, treatment of smallpox, Kite, Maglev wind power generators, Manned flight with kites, Match, non-friction, Multistage rocket, Natural gas as fuel, Porcelain, Restaurant menu, Rocket bombs, aerodynamic wings and explosive payloads, Rotary fan, manual and water-powered, Rudder, stern-mounted and vertical axial, Seismometer, Steel made from cast iron through oxygenation, Toilet paper, Wheelbarrow

Well, and rationally put. GA to ya.

Keep up the good work on that engine. It sure is pretty. Next week I'm ordering a print of the picture we discussed earlier. I had to go back and find it again.

Actually they were the first great technological cultures, back when our ancestors in Europe were still living in caves. During the Dark Ages in the West, after the fall of the Roman empire, these two cultures, along with the Muslim world, kept science, mathematics, and technology alive and made great contributions to human knowledge.

Please, no more racial or cultural insults!

The Pharaohs(Egypt and Sudan)culture was the greatest culture in the world before the Muslim invasion to the region.

Muslim invasion destroyed the original great cultures of the countries they invaded,they came from the desert with no any culture but violence ,and what you think it is Muslim culture actually it is the culture of the countries they invaded.

gringogreg,i suggest to read this book about Muslim history

http://www.amazon.com/Coffee-Prophet-Mark-Gabriel/dp/0615207286

I am agree, i remember:

1- For long decades,the technical secret of manufacturing good quality steel was known only for USA,Germany,and Sweden.

Japan had big difficulty of making good steel, but now they got every thing they need .

2-For long decades, the technical secret of coloring plastic was unknown for the Soviet Union and all their plastic products had only a black color,but they got every thing they need.

Thanks for the Internet.

1.You obviously know nothing about Japanese sword manufacture.
This thread is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
Del

And 30 years ago Ford Pintos were implicated in spontaneous combustion incidents.

What's your point?

We are talking about steel quality sir .

We are talking about steel quality sir .

back in the 60's Japan toured the U.S. Steel mills and they were apalled by how dirty the were. When they return back to Japan with the quality expertise gain by Demmin they felt they could create higher quality steel than the U.S........and did. Their steel was so clean that it's actual stripped some of the corrosion resistance properties from the steel. Thus made it vehicals sold in the U.S. Northern states rust out in just a few years......milo would be the expert though.......p911

Seeing as it's now about steel for some reason, like everyone stole everything from the US (via the internet)

-------------------- from Wiki --------

The Bessemer process was the first inexpensive industrial process for the mass-production of steel from molten pig iron. The process is named after its inventor, Henry Bessemer, who took out a patent on the process in 1855. The process was independently discovered in 1851 by William Kelly.^[1][2] The process had also been used outside of Europe for hundreds of years, but not on an industrial scale.^[3] The key principle is removal of impurities from the iron by oxidation with air being blown through the molten iron. The oxidation also raises the temperature of the iron mass and keeps it molten.

Bessemer converter, schematic diagram

The process using a basic refractory lining is known as the basic Bessemer process or Gilchrist-Thomas process after the discover Sidney Gilchrist Thomas.

--------------------

Note the comment "The process had also been used outside of Europe for hundreds of years, but not on an industrial scale" - which refers - mostly to Asian steel making.

While you're at that - note Patents were granted. Or the part actually "novel" is adaptation to 'industrial scale'.

All of which evidences that technology is improved by transfer of knowledge - be that a very slow process prior to the internet - but it's how it has always been done.

So the 'downside' of 'restricting' the flow/transfer of knowledge is slowing of innovation.

You may think that the flow out of the US, disadvantages the US. You may think that the US is 'superior' to Asia technically - or is loosing to Asia technically. But I think what history shows is whoever or whatever fails to innovate, will be progressed by others, external to that stalled system.

That 'stalling' is all about attitude to innovation.

The classic is the US automotive industry insisting American Art was "State of the Art".

That you are surrounded by "non- American" products, may upset you. But blaming anyone except American companies and business interests for "failing to value American innovation over Asian", is more where your focus should lie.

E.g. the transistor example went to Japan because the US industry would not invest in innovation. Windows - same reason.

But now days it would be quite hard to find innovation born and pursued and invested in, in the USA. Or most flow is the other way - hence the 'balance of trade'.

So - to change this - what you need is the internet - so you can first 'catch up' then innovate 'above that knowledge'.

Or you can continue to argue the "Prohibition Logic" - that innovation worked well.

-----------------------------

Please note; I am responding to Sue - but obviously not to Sue - just his hers is the last on-topic comment.

Not that I'm getting bored with members who insist on playing "Bitter Tea" with Barbara Guest. Whatever turns you on .

I'm quite sure that the Guest who sent this post is demoniacally possessed person.

mmMmMm

Choclate

Where did you steal copy this phrase: "technological continental drift"?

I hope that you don't expect us to believe that you made it up invented it.

I think you stole copied at least part of it from Sue!

Thank yew, Lyn. THERE's the danger of the Internet. People stealing your stuff.

I think the CR4 member TVP45 is around this thread to ask for his copy rights.

In reply to #22:

I'm from Arizona. We had a lady who sore she saw "Jesus" in a tortilla.

Jesus in a Tortilla

This is surely a religious experience, and must rival meeting a prophet in a coffee shop.

How say you?

I need to know where in Arizona, because you'll be receiving a bill for cleaning services. I had a coffee implosion right after the Christacean.

Thank yew. _{suddenly craving grilled cheese...}

The OP is could be right - after all when Bill Gates "borrowed windows" he took it to IMB Japan - & that "greatly helped moving technological secret information from the west to the Asian".

Why Japan? Japan were the "makers" of the transistor, invented in an America.

But there is the problem of where so many "American Inventors" were born and educated - ummmm......

Yes - stands to reason the Europeans and Asians must have had the internet before 1620!

Solved!

Click on my user name and read my profile.
And I'm certaily old enought to have ridden one of the early Japanes imported (to the UK) motorcycles... and the steel therein was fine.
Del
<slaps furry head with paw>

no, your no young pup.......your more like a fossil.....

I believe that the Internet is a free rich source for Iran right now to get free information for building their military machine.

Actually, you got the point,in the 70's a man from Pakistan was working at a nuclear

plant in Holland and he collected a large amount of information and documents from the plant during the time he was working there and all of a sudden disappeared from the plant and then appeared in Pakistan to manufacture the Pakistan's atomic bomb.

Now Iran doesn't need an Iranian spy, the Internet is redly available there.

I can assure you, there is nothing of any real use on the internet for "building their military machine". Possibly the only "use" is to get spam from arms dealers.

But you can find out on the internet what they have bought, from who, how it works, on what, how it marries with past strategy's (on both sides), and so the effectiveness of offsetting the threats of "the vastly militarized West".

And you can also find out why they feel/felt, the need to build such a 'new' defense.

And you might even learn that threatening a country, or penalizing a country, always brings the totalitarian ranter to the top job - and keeps him/her there.

And you could learn that every one of them has got their opportunity to be 'top ranter', through this mechanism of some foreign power trying to adjust someones values to suit their own.

History is a long topic, but you could start at Treaty of Versailles and how the 'attitudes' therein caused an Austrian Painter to rise to 'top ranter'.

Too old? then how/why Mao Zedong got his start.

Too old? then how/why Saddam Hussein got his (and how this leads directly to "your concerns" today)

There is a great deal to be learned on the Internet for ordinary people who have been for centuries 'told by their leaders what to think", not what actually happened, or what has been "made up". Like WMD's

This "knowledge" is why governments want control of the internet - and I'm afraid this is the "security threat" mantra, among many mantra's. And you and the OP are being stroked into supporting it.

Of course if the Iran government allowed the Iranian people to have internet - they could learn all the above history too - then Ayatollah Khomeini might be moved to pick a better leader.

Umm - I wonder how he came to power.

Is he for or against the Internet?

At least a spy can send serious military information through the internet in a second.

Did you know that recently a very serious military information about Iraqi war was placed on the internet which strongly angered the US government ?

If you are referring to the speculation by media on "Blue vs. Red" in reporting on the US fleet reaction to an event in the Gulf of Oman -- yes, naturally I'm aware.

But the study itself is not on the net - (so far as I know).

It's also 'old news'.

Since; reliance on a 'blue-water fleet' has lost it's gloss in the face of other technology developments - that have little to do with Iran - other than as an enthusiastic customer.

Or the US gov may be annoyed, but it is only because they don't like the idea that 'the age of gunboat diplomacy' is over.

Meaning they are stuck with the largest, and most potently armed fleet, on the planet and strangely, are determined to keep building them, that no other may 'seek to rival' - in the full knowledge they can be taken out, at will, given the balls, or desperation, to do so.

Best laid plans of mice and men - so to speak.

Of course, the other edge to this sword of yours - is look; it's on the net again and it's your doing!

So, would you like to ask me what technology I'm referring to? Or the details of the study? Would you like to chat about the the more recent exercises and developments?

As said there is not much on the internet of any real use, but "blinkered agitation" can change that.

Terrorist use the internet to send and receive orders.

"Terrorist use the internet to send and receive orders". Unfortunately the smart ones don't, or they'd all be caught by now.

They use secret code not known for me or you.

I've heard they sometimes post as guest & their secret messages are contained within the seemingly paranoid ramblings.....

OMG 26 27 29 33 35 39 46

Your right!

It's unfathomable code!

"Have a nice day" means:

"Carry out the terrorist attack today."

I believe that the Internet is a free rich source for Iran right now to get free information for building their military machine.

The same goes for criminals, terrorists, arms dealers, doomsday cults, etc. There is plenty of information on the internet (including plans for atomic and nuclear bombs and biological and chemical weapons) but without additional key information, specialised equipment, and specialised experience and training this information is incomplete and so not as useful as you may think.

Please note that the same incomplete information was available BEFORE the internet in the form of library books, military and weapon manuals, chemical engineering text books, etc, most of which were readily available for purchase and export between countries.

If you have any doubts about the authenticity of what I have said then consider this, with all the criminal, terrorist, etc activity in the world why are they only using simple and primitive devices? Why (for example) have there been no nuclear or biological attacks?

Something to think (but not worry) about.

GA for that

Not so much for the content, but for alerting me to the word 'free'.

Espionage is quite expensive (I'm told) and good information is always quite expensive.

Jane's is probably the stalwart authority on things military and in all "old forms" pricey.

Now of course it is 'on line', but I suspect even a small country could afford the subscription.

Maybe the internet is just threatening his employment? or he's selling subscriptions?

<sigh>

There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding and ignorance around the internet's role in the modern world. The short answer is that although the internet is a hugely powerful resource containing a vast quantity of information and distributed knowledge that virtualy anyone can access, it is still just a tool.

The internet is no substitute for a proper education. For those that doubt this see the numerous threads on CR4 asking or discussing basic science principles, simple queries, Pesudoscience, etc, virtually all of which came from posters reading and misinterperting information they found (or did not find) on the internet.

Is the Internet invention played a major role on the technological continental drift and greatly helped moving technological secret information from the west to the Asian ?

Not greatly, but what it did was hasten along the natural development of the East (specifically countires like China) to a more Democratic and consumer-based economy, but these concepts were hardly secret.

Well, I'm greatly disappointed with you,the school gives the basics,but the internet moves the technical secrets from place to another.

Do you think there in democracy in Iran,but they moving fast towards the modern technology in favor of the information available though the Internet.

Well, I'm greatly disappointed with you,the school gives the basics,but the internet moves the technical secrets from place to another.

So does standard mail, photographs, microfilm or transporting actual samples of 'technical secrets', etc. This has been done since the dawn of civilisation and is still very effective. I know of two examples where prototype electronic products and even an entire production plant were recreated (mostly) using photos.

General information and specialised information are freely available on the internet but I am not sure exactly what you mean by 'technical secrets', can you please explain with some examples? Do you perhaps mean product data sheets or patents that can more easily be accessed using the internet?

Do you think there in democracy in Iran,but they moving fast towards the modern technology in favor of the information available though the Internet.

I did not mention Iran, I mentioned China. I do not know enough about Iran to make a statement regarding it.

The large growing of the Chinese economy is because the western investors,they invest their new innovation in china (cheap labour)rather than in their own countries and the communist government in china allows them to do that.

No thing related to the democracy.

I believe i have the magic stick needed for the western countries to get back their dignify before the time becomes too late, it may be seems painful for the some but it is really need:

1-keep aside what is called democracy and have a communist like government.

2-No western Investors allowed to invest outside their own countries.

3-No high level technical information to be exported to outside or placed on the internet.

4- Raise up the lost nationalist spirit among the new generation.

5-Regain the religion values lost of the new generation.

This reform steps needed as fast as possible before the complete collapse to happen

Sir,believe me, candidate your self or US presidency election and i will be the the first one to elect you.

1-keep aside what is called democracy and have a communist like government.

This must be in view of the historical success of these economies .

2-No western Investors allowed to invest outside their own countries.

And no non-western investor should invest in western countries. Including the secirities of the government held by China and Japan. Look at the number of erstwhile home companies that are now controlled by others. (And the factor is global since there are western companies controlling eastern ones too)

3-No high level technical information to be exported to outside or placed on the internet.

Difficult, but as far as I know they are not put _{(except at CR4} )

4- Raise up the lost nationalist spirit among the new generation.

5-Regain the religion values lost of the new generation.

Comments deleted "CR4 Admin - no religion or politics on this forum _{(or words to that context).}

As I mentioned earlier, stop the flow of technology and the humanity dies. Today you want to limit from one country to other, tomorrow? from one province to another ? then? .. In the end it will be all family secrets as in long begone area?

UD15

Actually the present western economical crises are the result of the wrong economical ideas been for long time and finally led to the big failure and a disaster and now it is the time to get rid of it and the malicious persons put it from the begging to spoliate the majority .

The beauty of the internet is the information goes in many directions

in the end you have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff

which requires that you have a certain amount of knowledge & experience to make any use of the information presented.