Building a Cellar on a Dune

I'm not a civil engineer, but I know that you need one. This is a possible death trap. A local civil engineer on site will know how and if you can excavate in your loose soil. Doing this kind of work without a civil engineer risks worker and occupant lives, your existing home and all of your money. Since your contractor does not know how to do this work properly, stop work.

I don't think they have a contractor.

What the H<<l is a braai?

peterg7lyq Guru Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: the uk Posts: 2133 Good Answers: 54

# 25 Find in discussion Re: Retaining Sandy Hillside During Underground Home Building 08/08/2010 9:53 AM

this ones better. [PDF] Building on Sand Dunes File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat The Risks of Building on Sand Dunes – Page 1. 1. INTRODUCTION. This document is intended to outline the broad issues and problems where development and sand ... www.shoalhaven.nsw.gov.au/council/pubdocs/.../Bldg_on_Sand_Dunes.pdf Cronulla sand dunes, Kurnell Peninsula - Wikipedia, the free ... The sand has been valued for many decades by the Sydney building industry, ... to be an ongoing problem amongst community groups and environmentalists. ... en.wikipedia.org/.../Cronulla_sand_dunes,_Kurnell_Peninsula - Cached - Similar Sand mining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It also destroys fisheries, causing problems for people who rely on fishing for their livelihoods. ... Main article: Cronulla sand dunes, Kurnell Peninsula ... The sand has been valued for many decades by the building industry, ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_mining - Cached - Similar Show more results from en.wikipedia.org coastal dune erosion Removal of, or damage to, dune vegetation exposes sand dunes to high coastal winds and ... fire or building works will ultimately cause erosion problems. ... www.landcare.net.au/files/fieldguidebook/coastalerosion.html - Cached - Similar A guide to managing coastal erosion in beach/dune systems Coastal dunes accumulate sand blown inland from the beaches in front of them ... Problems can also arise when accretion dominates, because the excess of sand ... driving vehicles over dunes, the removal of sand for building materials or ... www.snh.org.uk/publications/on-line/.../erosion/2.2.shtml - Cached - Similar [PDF] Coastal Sand Dunes HAP 2010 File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View The key dune building grasses in Sussex are Marram Grass and Lyme Grass. ... Nutrient enrichment resulting from dog fouling can cause problems in sand dune ... www.biodiversitysussex.org/file_download/116/ Sand dune - Country Report, Great Britain - Coastal Wiki 15 Jan 2009 ... It attempted to provide a description of the sand dune vegetation, sites and conservation issues throughout Europe including Scandinavia, ... www.coastalwiki.org/.../Sand_dune_-_Country_Report,_Great_Britain - Cached - Similar Los Alamos National Laboratory: History: Building the Atomic Bomb ... Because of serious problems in producing uranium, the plutonium problem put the ... region near the Great Sand Dunes National Monument in southern Colorado ... www.lanl.gov/history/atomicbomb/trinity.shtml - Cached - Similar Sand dunes (images of British biodiversity) page 1 ness dune building out from the coast;; tombolo where sand is deposited in a .... This may pose conservation problems where rich slacks adjoin popular beach ... www.bioref.lastdragon.org/habitats/Dunes1.html - Cached Coastal Management Issues in the Barcelona region 27 Sep 2009 ... The indiscriminate proliferation of buildings and infrastructure ... sand are something of an eyesore and merely pass the problem on to ... geographyfieldwork.com/Coastal%20Locations.htm - Cached - Similar 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 __________________ Dont take life so seriously none of us will get out alive, Enjoy it while you can

I doubt that they have one, too. This is a perfect example though why there are building codes. The dune excavation work might inflict enough damage to the local geology that they put at risk their neighbors in a future storm.

What the H<<l is a braai ?

A Braai is a barbecue, or fireplace for same. The ones I saw in South Africa were often a built up platform on which to build the fire. The meat is then cooked over the coals. It can also be a sheet metal fireplace built into a rock or brick surround for the same purposes. Mmmmm Yuummmm.

I would also contact your local professional geologist. They would have the better understanding of your soils, and would work along side the consultant engineer.

Hi Karin,

A concrete contractor I worked for for a while had this method:

1. Make sure sand is wet.
2. Dig down 6-inches or so.
3. Splatter the sides you just exposed with a cement mixture and give it a bit to set up some - this will keep the sand in-place while you dig another 6 inches.
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 until finished.

I don't know the exact cement mix he was using, but I'll bet someone else here has done this before and give more details.

Mike

You might Google cofferdam to learn about concrete building in the most unfriendly environment. Your project is probably somewhere in between simple excavation and cofferdam.

An almost identical OP occurred in this forum several months ago regarding excavations in sand dunes. I believe the poster was from OK if I'm not mistaken. Do a search of the CR4 Forum blogs.

In my professional option, you would be well served to have steel sheet piling driven along the entire perimeter of the excavation to hold the sand back. Driven steel plates can be used as well, but only for shallow excavations. Make sure an engineer has design the type of piling to be used----just don't go out and buy some steel plate and pray that it works, as most likely it will not!

Yes, obtain the services of a Licensed/Registered Professional Engineer from your area (like what another poster had suggested) who specializes in Civil/Structural Engineering.

Also, make sure you have an approved building permit in hand before you try to excavate any further without some outside help from an engineer, else otherwise someone is bound to become injured or killed by your actions. And don't rely on an Excavating Contractor to get it right either, because most have no formal engineering education, especially when it comes to properly sizing sheet piling or doing rudimentary soil mechanics computations; most times they are basing their "soils" experience of what they or someone else got away with without some sort of a disaster occurring. Truthfully, and I'll be quite straight forward and honest about this with you, in that some DIY-ing work by lay-people is a recipe for disaster, and this is one of them. You have no business excavating a shifting sand dune like you have done for a number of reasons. In a court of law you will be held responsible due to your actions, including manslaughter, and at the very least, possibly destroying the a intrical part of the local ecosystem.

Questions: (1). Do you even possess a valid Building Permit from your local municipality to do the house construction? Somehow I surmise that you do not. otherwise the code enforcement officer would have "red flagged" your excavation operations and would not have issued a building permit. (2). Was a Environmental Impact Statement conducted relative to this house construction project?

signed,

CaptMoosie, LPE/PhD

Civil/Structural?Environmental Engineer

"An almost identical OP occurred in this forum several months ago"

Perhaps you didn't see post #3?

Maybe this will help: Find in discussion

WHAT THE HEL IS A BRAAI ????

Karinb is fro South Africa and a braai is our word for a barbecue.

Glentana is a suburb in the Western Cape - see the link below I think I even found the. hole.

(left bot on the beech)

<http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=-34.050459,22.314874&spn=0.002613,0.003669&t=k&z=18>

Hendrik,

Thanks for the language and geography lessons. That is really beautiful country.

Cheers.

you need a brain

of course the sand keeps falling in its sand and moves

you need to contstruct a containment device and wall support to support the walls

as you dig.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cofferdam.htm

http://www.planningplanet.com/wiki/422453/ground-excavation

http://www.wateraid.org/international/what_we_do/sustainable_technologies/technology_notes/2059.asp

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLT_en&q=diy+excavation&revid=1789628318&sa=X&ei=rxyfTLXEMoKQjAfAmLyFDQ&ved=0CD0Q1QIoAQ

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=safe+hole+digging&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGLT_en&redir_esc=&ei=cB2fTP_7DY_QjAeC_umXDQ

• Digging Holes in Sand Can Be Dangerous 20 Jun 2007 ... New research shows that digging sand holes can be risky because ... WebMD Medical News: "Safety Note for Beachcombers: Don't Dig Too Deep. ...
  www.webmd.com/.../digging-holes-in-sand-can-be-dangerous - Cached - Similar
• YouTube - Pachydactylus (palmatogecko ) rangei digging in sand Pachydactylus (palmatogecko ) rangei digging in sand .... Language: English; Location: Worldwide; Safety mode: Off. Loading... Queue (0) ...
  www.youtube.com/watch?v=alYE-U22SUw - Cached - Similar
• Digging Holes in the Sand Can Be Deadly - washingtonpost.com 20 Jun 2007 ... When people are on the beach, "their concern for safety is ... Sand collapses occur in ordinary holes that people dig -- some only a few ...
  www.washingtonpost.com › Health › Wires - Similar
• Beach Sand Digging Dangers - The Early Show - CBS News 5 Aug 2010 ... The Early Show: Beach Sand Digging Dangers - Susan Koeppen Shows How ... says people are being warned about sand hole safety "every day, ...
  www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/05/.../main6745770.shtml - Cached

This is a Braai, about an hour up the hwy. We visited friends last December at Plettenberg Bay.

And heres how you use it...

Cheers, Tony

Civilised people in Plett. This is more like it - a bit further North............

What about getting somthing like a steel container like the lorry type dig a large open sloping side pit (same shape as crater) place container in crater add reiforcements to sides and top possibly steel mesh and concrete, then bury it, leaving a safe access of course.

lot of digging though

the container may not need reiforcement but just to be on the safe side

Drill in some soldier piles to effectively function like a wall all along the perimeter of the proposed undergroundstructure. Essentially you will drill some borring around the perimeter of the structure, using a hollow stem auger, then pump concrete down the stem as you remove the auger slowly, keeping head on the concrete column. The concrete would likely have to have 3/8 inch rock instead of 3/4 or larger. Howerver, it should be a standard water cement ratio, like a 3 inch slump, and reinforced with steel spiral cage. It would have to be drilled in deeper then the proposed building foundations to support the earth pressures it would bear, this you would want a Civil Engineer to calculate (Plus the local jurisdiction would probably mandate it). The other way is to just dig a huge hole with a set back to the stable slope angle like a 1:1 slope or maybe shallower, build the structure, then backfill and compact the sand. You could use driven sheet pile walls also, might be a bit expensive. If shallow enough you can build a reinforced concrete frame wall structure, place it in location and then excavate along the walls inside and out to work it down to depth in place (only seen this done once, and it takes great care not to hit the walls and break them so was not but a couple feet they did this).

I`ll just cut and paste from my previous post on this very problem. Mostly because I was kind of hoping to get some CR4 input on this solution. Nobody seems to have done so yet. This is your chance!!!

My goodness Peter, that is a lot of good information! (still applicable in this post too!)

Normally people find that sand is not a good base for a building...that you have to build a sort of ship which floats in it. You have to be careful that holes don't just fill in and trap workers! (What Capt. Moosie said...take that VERY seriously! Its life and death that is!) That being said, if you take precautions, and make a big enough pad, even the sand will support a surprisingly heavy weight...I supported a 15 by 30 foot post and beam building on four 2 foot by 2 foot pads and it was steady as if I had built on rock. The building codes said it would, I followed those, and gosh darn it, they were right!

However, you didn't post on this forum to find old boring building methods! You want crisp, new, exciting building methods! I can help with that!!!! One of the best methods is Magnesson's rather innovative way to consolidate sand dunes which he is using in Africa.

yeah... he turns the sand dunes into sand stone. Really! Using the same natural process that nature uses! Its quick, quicker than excavating the sand. Its solid...the pyramids of Egypt are built from this stuff! It is engineering at its most exciting and cutting edge.

Please check out Mr. Magnessons' TED talk here and let me know what you think!

WOW

Thank You for that fascinating report. Turning sand dunes into sandstone dwellings and walls to stop desertification. That's what I call a brilliant solution to an ancient problem. I hope that he can get some followers and/or funding to at least attempt this idea.

Not sure he wants to wait for a few years before the subgrade is stabilized to begin building. Can drill in and inject concrete and form soldier piles walls in a few weeks, then build on them the next week to form nice walls and such. Sand is actually great building material, ideal in fact. It poses a safety issue on slopes, but the safety is obvious while building, unlike clay which can get wet and slump suddenly along what appeared to be a very stable slope. As a matter of fact sand is used in some form, usually with around 15% to 50% binder, almost universally as engineered backfill. The only real issue in clean sand foundations that is problematic is shallow groundwater. Sand has the tendency to liquify under vibration, so seismic events can cause improperl supported structures to sink and tilt. However, liquifaction only occurs in the presence of groundwater, as it depends on the water pore pressures separating the contact of the sand grains to form a slurry.

Well, Mr. Magnussen`s method of making stone from sand seems to only take a week. Less time than it takes concrete to set up. Don`t you think that is worth the trouble to look into...it seems to be a perfect solution to THIS problem.

Ok well I will have to watch more closely, I heard him say something about adding the bacteria and letting it set for a few years to lithify the sand. there must have been something more in there. At anyrate you can pour a soldier piles and start excavating the next week easily, just set the design strength as needed, which is usually well above the construction support strength anyways as it will have people inside the wtructure and th piles form structural support components of the future walls. It really becomes and issue of cost and time. In some cases i have had to design some projects to use innovative technologies, and usually the time is way underestimated, particularly as there are always problems thatd evelop during construction either due to contractor experince, unforeseen geologic issues, issue not considered in the development of the new technology, and so forth. Tried and true practices are cost effective and predictable, and are less apt to failure after construction due to contractor errors or design errors. All of these things cost more money in the long run. and Untried technologies can many times bloat a project cost to many order of magnitude more than estimated.

Very true.

quote...Tried and true practices are cost effective and predictable, and are less apt to failure after construction due to contractor errors or design errors. unquote. Excellent statement.

We all know that there is nothing more conservative than an engineer who is suddenly faced with putting a signature on a blueprint! So we are agreed that the process needs a large amount of experimental data and experience. There must be some data out there! I will see if I can find some.

I checked back on that video, and the process takes twenty four hours, and in ideal conditions, it was done in fourteen hundred minutes. When you stop feeding the baccillus pasturii, it stops growing and working and solidifying the grains of sand. Its a harmless bacterium found everywhere in all wetlands on earth. Its cost is a fraction of the cost of concrete. It can solidify sand, but because it need calcium to do the crystalization, it works best in sand that has at least some calcium component to it. Chalk, crushed shells, that sort of thing.

A few years afterwards, the desert would become green. (thats what the few years quote comes from.)

This post proposes using the bacteria to repair cracked concrete. Possibly by infecting the mix at the beginning, and providing a bit of bentonite for it to live in. When the concrete cracks, water gets in and activates the bacillus. Hmmm. THAT could be useful.

A scientific report on the whole process is here. So its not just a pie in the sky proposal.

Apparently a byproduct is ammonia, not surprising considering you feed the baccillus a tasty urea and sugar dinner. A LOT of production seems to result in a LOT of ammonia. This site worries about the ammonia. Other materials may be used to feed the baccillus that do not have urea in them, and do not give off an odor of twenty year old wet mattresses....eeeuuwwww.

Terra Daily interviewed Dr. Jong and he said this process has been used successfully to repair marble statues. Hmm. they also feel that it could be used to stabilize earth to protect structures from earthquakes. (similar to what the OP wanted to do.)

It is not all that new apparently, scholars have known of the effect for years.

Me, I just like the idea of making a crack free concrete with fly ash. This holds much promise.

Why bentonite, it doesn't have much available calcium, as it is composed of 2:1 silica and aluminum. Concrete has a lot of calcium on the otherhand. FYI sand grains are already solid, I am guessing you mean to lithify the sand. Since this is a process requiring calcium, I am guessing the binder in the sandstone matrix is lime, CaCO3. This would form a fairly weak structure, much weaker than the silica cemented sandstones, and susceptible to erosion and acid. In addition, unless densified, it would form a highly porous sandstone which would make it even weaker. How would you overcome the straining effects of the sand which keep the bacteria from being able to penetrate more than a few centimeters, this is how sand filters work? Or, do you lithify a centimeter of sand at a time and then add more? Why would lithifying a desert aid in growth of plants? typically plant rooting behavior is strongly inhibited by lithified materials, or even moderately dense materials. Plus it doesn't address water retention capacity or the issue of high porosity, let alone the lack of rainfall.

Also the article you referenced is discussing the use of this accelerated precitpitation and co-precipitation process for solutions with very low concentrations of calcium groundwater. The release of ammonia is a dangerous prospect as it can readily transform into nitrates, both of which contaminate groundwater resources, which are of far more value than any architectural designs. I suspect such an application would not fall under any agricultural exemptions, and thus would have to be permited by the local EPA and monitored for potential releases to groundwater and surface waters.

I wouold still favor for such a small project simple and straight forward standard processes, who wants the EPA watching them try and build a cellar.

Now wait a minute. Yusef1 brought an interesting alternate idea here on how to secure shifting sands. Read carefully his words. The bentonite was added to apparently provide voids for the bacillus to occupy, not as a Calcium source.

If this technique intrigues you this much I recommend contacting and referring to the sources Yusef1 cited. They can defend their work, Yusef1 need not defend their work.

Wouldn't a crack provide a huge void. I am guessing you are misinterpreting a growth matrix which would be a substrate on which bacteria can form colonies. If this was the case bentonite might not be the best substrate, and could actually cause some other problems due to the very high shrink swell capacity as it is wetted and dried (it would need moisture for bacteria to thrive). Plus it would not form a good matric for lithification in the cracks. You would want a sand at least in the cracks to form the materials strength, as we all know it is not the cement that gives concrete its strength. Plus I would then have some question about the acid decay byproducts as the bacteria colonies are starved. These organic acids cause accelerated dissolution of the cement in the area, also the biochemical processed of translating urea into ammonium generates a huge amount of acidity, so that would be a concern. In addition the calcium silicates in the concrete is in a much stronger chemical form than calcium carbonate, so if the calcium sources was the surrounding concrete, you would actually be weakening the adjacent concrete surface. If you were going to add quick lime as a calcium source, why not just use it directly as a filler as it reacts directly with carbon dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate, or even better use cement which is much stronger.

Something about this just seems like an unnecessary extra step. For what the original research was conducted it makes sense, as we frequently use bacteria in the in-situ remediation of aquifers.

Yeah. me too. your comments are very appropriate...who wants to sign off on an experimental process, especially if it is a load bearing structure. I suspect that the value of this process might not be in the creation of bricks or arches, but say, to stabilize the base before pouring a slab, or consolidating the roadway across the dunes to bring in the lorries and heavy equipment.

The bentonite was for the purpose of giving the baccillus room to move inside the concrete. They are small, they don't need much elbow room. They don't need to add much clay to the mix. They didn't specify bentonite, any clay will do. Bentonite is already mined, purified, and ready to go, but of course, as you point out, there are cheaper clays.

I have not built bricks from the stuff myself, and don't have any data on the friability, durabillity, or porosity of the product. One person described the material produced as "indistinguishable from marble", a statement which, if true, would be remarkable. I suspect like a lot of materials, the end result will depend a lot on the ingredients you mix into the cake. I can't even imagine making this stuff waterproof!

The ammonia produced is a fraction of the ammonia produced by a barn full of cows, and most of it evaporates. It would be nice if it was to be captured by a mat of legumes and fixed into the soil, but that requires, um, thought and planning. That being said, it is foolish to ignore its production, and the potential downside. It is good that potential side effects are examined. No reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater, I mean, lets face it, the contamination of soil and aquifers with asphalt does not prevent us from building roads!

Some more study is clearly in order, and as the links point out, the study is being done.

I predict that within a couple of decades, roads, particularly secondary roads, will not be built with concrete, but with bacteria. And not even specialty bacteria like b. pasturii, but by simply feeding the existing bacteria the correct breakfast. Cut and paste report from the U. of Idaho professors who are patenting the process follows.

>>>>>>>>>Funded by the National Science Foundation, the University of Idaho research that led to the new technology centers on building up indigenous bacteria. Burbank explains that a food source and urea solution, added to bacteria already indigenous to the soil, will help create an evenly distributed area that is strengthened as the bacteria build bridges between soil particles – rather than pumping in bacteria which might not thrive in a new environment, or might clog up around the injection point."Indigenous bacteria are already spread out; we've developed a process that will enrich the soil, increase and overpopulate the other bacteria to create the 'rock' that we want," says Burbank.

The Idaho team is the only group working on soil stability with indigenous bacteria. Burbank says they have proved their theories both in the lab and in the field with every soil type they have tested – seven in all.<<<<<<<<<<<<<

So, I think that I should best spend my time learning about this new-old building material. Some experimentation of my own may well be in order. I didn't believe that rammed earth would make a good brick until I rammed up a chunk of my back yard and left it propped up to weather. (makes a good brick by the way) The value of building cellar load bearing walls with the stuff might be problematical...piles and retaining bulwarks are traditional and predictable and easily fundable. Bacteria are being used more and more to make odd things like biofuels and even rubber, and roads, though of course the bacteria have been doing this all by themselves for millenia all on their own. Bog iron is created by bacteria, for instance. So it looks like all you have to do is take a box of earth, feed the bacteria some urea and molasses, and you get stone in a couple of days.

I'll report back. It sounds too easy....but then, so did rammed earth.

cheers....

FYI asphalt byproducts is very insoluble and migrate only a few centimeters into the soil over a century, which means you have contaminated soils locally underlying the asphalt within a few centimeters, covered, it also repels water from infiltrating under traditional design (pervious asphalts could lead to worse contamination, though not very likely to be much due to insolubility). Ammonia is highly soluble can reach groundwater 100s of feet below relatively rapidly. In addition it readily translates to nitrate and that is one of the most soluble anions whose movement is not attenuated by interactions with soils minerals.

Also dairies have to be permitted and monitored. They have to provide regular reportings for the potential for release of salts and nitrates. Food processing and Dairies are exactly the examples for this type of thing. Dairies have been slower to adapt to regulations in part due to the agricultural link of the business (in general agriculture receives grandfathered exemptions like petroleum due to old nature of industries, public perception of family farms, and strong wealthy lobbies).

Marble is a highly densified metmorphic form of limestone. You need pressure to do this. The end product you are describing, lacking the pressure, might have an appearance of marble but i suspect due to the lack of high pressures during formation is would be much weaker like a sedimentary chalk with the interstices filled with decaying organics. Limestone is much more subject to acid erosion and chemically weaker in water than concrete (water erosion),

Hot/cold mix asphalt lead to hardly any contamination of water or soils, that includes previous asphalt mixes. (The asphalt in pavement is usual less than 5.0% in hot/cold mixes and 1.0-2.0 in previous mixes). There have been a number of studies by the University of Villanova, Penn State, and Temple here in Philadelphia where they have studied various types of storm water systems and the amounts and types of contamination. Must of the contamination comes from the landscaped areas and agricultural with insecticides, herbicides, fertilizers, etc.

I would be more nervous of the bacteria running a muck, then any contamination coming from the asphalt in the asphalt mixes.

This is true, asphalt doesn't no release much sometimes a little bit of heavy metals, which can accumulate in adjacent soils over many decades of exposure. These metals usually fall out pretty rapidly and deposit in sedimentation areas or immediately adjacent to the roadside. the levels released are so low it takes a very long time to accumulate them in concentrations sufficient to have the soil become a classified waste.

Actually I've been finding very little sources of heavy metal in asphalt mixtures, or their milling's. I usually find the higher concentrations in soils, just natural deposits. One of our mine reclamation sites receives "Clean-fill", which includes all non-organic soils, concrete with-out exposed rebar, and asphalt. I've never had an issue with asphalt with any contamination, its usually the soils that cause the problems. Just last week I received samples from a green field at a local university. They all failed because of high heavy metal limits. The field/park has been in existence since the founding of the school back in the late 1700's. The contaminates where boron and cobalt usually a heavy industrial pollutant, but in this case it was naturally occuring. It's very hard to find "clean" soils usually they all have some sort of "contamination" in them including microscopic.

Yep, that is what I would expect, asphaltic concretes themselves whenever I have seen test results, are below detection limits for heavy metals, which does not mean they lack heavy metals content obviously. Frequently, the asphaltine oils cause issues that can raise the detection limits, but even leachate studies frequently find detections at or near detection limits. The thing about the heavy metals is their tendency to precitpitation and adsorb. Thus their very immobility can lead to issues where over long periods of time they tend to concentrate locally, and they typically can not migrate downwards very far in the soil profile to contaminate groundwaters unless there are specific redox conditions or unusual pH. I can think of many places where the natural soils content of cinnabar is high enough that if it were not natural to the soil minerology it could be classified hazardous, areas around Big Sur/Morro Bay being a good example. Which is a good example of the distiction between natural materials, and man made materials or resultant wastes. Regulators can require much lower standards for waste streams that contain hazardous materials, then are already naturally occurring in the local environment.

True our permit to allow Clean-Fill material to the reclamation site is much tighter then the "clean-fill" policy the state DEP normally follows. It's makes it extremely hard to find a site that doesn't have some sort of contamination. We usually require the contractors to run an SPLP on any compound that fails to see it is natural or not. The joys of regulatory craziness.

Good information as usual.

Thank you Yusef, Mr Magnesson

Watching that link here was the best 12 minutes I've spent in a long time. It's like a dream come true. I had always wanted to build a house from sand including the bubbles technique. With the use of spay on ferrous cement, like used in other applications.

This report is the perfect demonstration of a humanly applied symbiosis between 3 parties. Human, sand and bacteria. Not to speak of the advantages for the flora. In my very similar, organic based structures I would include solar panels and water condensing units.

The use of concrete was the only thing holding me back. Just too energy hungry from cradle to grave. All other aspects are common sense variations of shape, load and distribution of the building material. It would be very good if these would hit bedrock rather sooner than later.

When I am rich one day something like this would be what I would spend time, money and effort on. Besides the 1001 and one other things I'll have to do. You wouldn't have to drive very far here in Australia to have a scenery like that. I will get in touch with the people supplying the bacteria and take it from there.

Bacteria are too stupid to think but used in a controlled way have always been very beneficial to any living creature. This is taking it just a step further and I must say the concept is very interesting and comes like a Fata Morgana to me. Serendipity at its best.

Thanks again, Ky.

Great

This style of building and I mean the aesthetics of it, just seem to make me breath a bit deeper. It comes natural to me. It shows in my paintings as well as other designs I come up with. Like Bach for the eyes. Organic.

"too good to be true"

Just because I can imagine it plausible, it becomes a reality. I have no doubt that it would work if the bacteria do their job. I'll have to dig a bit deeper but just lack the time.

Antoni Gaudi did it the hard way. He is my soul mate and I regret never to have met him, very much. Magnesson will be contacted by me as soon as funds become separated from the bean counters. Me missus will need an industrial size hoover though once I have it in place.

I am not sure why you marked your reply OT but you will have your reasons. I think the OP should get back to us at some stage. All the manageable technical side has done is possibly given her a shock.

For me it is confirmation of a long held dream or vision. More than doable just not done yet!

See what happens, Ky.

Maybe this was mentioned in a prior reply, but I didn't see this when I just sped-read the OP and posts...

Karin, what depth is your water table? If you dig down six feet in your sand, a large enough hole sloped as suggested to make a pillar then back-fill and repeat until you have all the pillars needed - will water come in? I've built structures on sand before out of necessity and that method in a prior response worked well, it's still standing strong after 11 years. But the water table was far below the bottom of the structural support that was in the sand.

A Piers is built over water and sand,

At this time it sounds like you are causing corrosion to begin around your house voluntarily.I would take this caving in to mean that you Need cinderblocks around your braai anyway.

Corrosion?

Hello Karin. try asking some old SADF vets from the SWA border war about their sandbag bunker construction. Regards, your 'almost ' neighbor.

I love the tone of this thread. I doubt if I have anything useful to add but this message makes me a subscriber.

Ed

I have seen a well being fabricated, the techniqe is fairly simple:

Starting from ground level up a convenient height a lined shaft is constructed.

From the centre of the shaft soil is excavated.

As the soil (sand) is extracted the shaft starts penetrating in ground due to its own weight.

Subsequent enhancement of the shaft is done to achieve the desired depth of burrial.

I am not a Civil Eng. and I am wondering why the same technique cannot be adopted for the cellar.

There are many techniques of using and applying various forms of cofferdams that could work here. My point has always been here that a knowledgeable person of the sand's ability to take a load must be done for safety during construction and in supporting the load from the cellar. This is the point of getting a civil engineer involved.

Just to let you know that all went well and we now have a beautiful cellar! feel free to google and see the hole is gone!