Login | Register
The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®

Previous in Forum: Radiography as Per Din Standard   Next in Forum: Service Pipe - Corrosion Allowance
Close

Comments Format:






Close

Subscribe to Discussion:

CR4 allows you to "subscribe" to a discussion
so that you can be notified of new comments to
the discussion via email.

Close

Rating Vote:







8 comments
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 413
Good Answers: 25

ASTM Testing Foibles

11/16/2010 10:55 AM

What do you do when you have a product to be tested which doesn't fit the criteria of the test method? How far off the reservation can you go and still maintain credibility? Is the statement "this product conforms to ASTM DXXX: Modified" a red flag?

For example, a building product whose geometry won't permit testing under the prescriptive method.

__________________
Goodness has nothing to do with it.
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
Hobbies - Automotive Performance - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 34° 34' 21.60" N, 92° 55' 42.28" W
Posts: 20974
Good Answers: 786
#1

Re: ASTM Testing Foibles

11/16/2010 11:34 AM

All my experience with ASTM was in material selection for the construction of spacecraft and military electronics. The housing industry may be different.

From my perspective, it either conforms, or it doesn't. If you can't test it, how can you say it conforms?

__________________
Luck comes and goes. Skill is forever. Intelligence either is, or it ain't. lyn
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member, but planning to be an Old Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Fargo, America, USA
Posts: 5181
Good Answers: 190
#2

Re: ASTM Testing Foibles

11/16/2010 11:47 AM

If you have a square peg, and cannot make it fit into an existing ASTM round hole, then you simply create a square hole.

From the Wiki artice on ASTM: "[ASTM] Standards are developed within committees, and new committees are formed as needed, upon request of interested members."

New stuff comes along all the time. For example, in 2008 ASTM published new Biodiesel Blend Specifications.

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 413
Good Answers: 25
#3

Re: ASTM Testing Foibles

11/16/2010 2:04 PM

I will use the measurement of R value, the resistance to heat flow, as an example. Insulation in sheet form is fairly easy to measure, but if there is any geometry involved things get trickier. I have had conversations with third party test labs who recommend doing the heat flow tests in conjunction with the material the insulation is most commonly used with and calling it a "modified" test. Others have suggested removing the offending geometry and testing the remainder as standard sheet insulation and calling it a "modified" test. Can anyone designate a test as "modified" or are these overzealous sales efforts?

__________________
Goodness has nothing to do with it.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: ASTM Testing Foibles

11/17/2010 9:46 AM

You can qualify it by "similarity".

Register to Reply
Commentator
Engineering Fields - Civil Engineering - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The most variable and beautiful State in the U.S. - And the worst managed and least livable one too.
Posts: 80
#5

Re: ASTM Testing Foibles

11/17/2010 11:50 AM

ASTM methods are "modified" on a regular basis to conform to industry and/or material specific requirements by manufacturers, agencies, and associations.

AASHTO, ACI, AWS, ICC, AWCI and every state materials agency are prime examples of entities whose tests are ASTM based, in part, as modified, or even in their entirety. And, many of these are the "committee" that developed the test to become ASTM originally.

ASTM is not the only game in town so to speak, but nearly every method out there has it's roots in ASTM, and vice versa.

The real bottom line is;

What will the end consumer, requiring testing as a means of QC/QA, accept as proof to that end.

__________________
Highly educated by life, books, and institutions. In that order. The Man denies me the big E title 'til I bow before him, cash in my outstretched hands and 'tests' sticking out my A%#. I bestow my own title: Engineering 'Technician' Extraordinaire!
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Izmir, Turkey
Posts: 2331
Good Answers: 32
#6

Re: ASTM Testing Foibles

11/23/2010 10:58 AM

uncommon pointed it out nicely - What will the end consumer, requiring testing as a means of QC/QA, accept as proof to that end.

When we started out making hot briquetted iron from hot direct reduced iron many of the standard tests for direct reduced iron didn't meet the need. We developed new and modified tests.

It was easy for the customer to see the problem and the new methods were accepted with no real problem.

Russ

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 11
#7

Engineering Plastics, Polymers, Polycarbonate, Acrylic, Poly acetyl, K Resin, Ny

11/26/2010 7:13 AM

CR4 Admin Deleted Post Reason: Spam

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 413
Good Answers: 25
#8

Re: ASTM Testing Foibles

11/26/2010 8:25 AM

From the consumer's point of view I am glad there are standards to be met so that life is not totally caveat emptor.

From a manufacturer's perspective the square pegs have a difficult time when the square holes are codified.

__________________
Goodness has nothing to do with it.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 8 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); beriberi (2); Doorman (1); lyn (1); russ123 (1); shahpolymers (1); uncommon (1)

Previous in Forum: Radiography as Per Din Standard   Next in Forum: Service Pipe - Corrosion Allowance
You might be interested in: Mechanical Testing Equipment, Product and Component Testing Services, Environmental Testing and Analysis Services