1991 Toyota Camry LE (3S-FE 2.0L Engine)

Ok you are not going to like this answer much.

Your 91 Toyota Camry with 256,000 miles (406,000Km) is well past its Designed End of Life cycle.

It will be cheaper to replace the transmission with one from the wreckers than have yours repaired.

As for your Thermostat, In the 3S family of motors they don't fail safe. Ever. They always fail shut. As the thermostat is located in the lower radiator hose housing not the top. You may not be seeing a temperature reading on the gauge because there is no coolant flow or worse there is no coolant in the upper radiator hose housing where the sensor lives.

The usual failure mode is that the thermostat fails to open, causing the coolant to boil and be released by a lazy radiator cap. If you only do short drives you won't notice it. However when the engine cools it sucks air back into the cooling system. Note if the radiator cap is to spec then you will have the radiator pop its tanks. As the coolant level drops it causes the head to warp as it isn't being "cooled" adequately. Result being a blown headgasket and heat damaged alloy head. In Oz they used to change out the thermostat once a year as it was good insurance.

That said, it sounds more like you have bumped a connection for your temperature gauge. Check all the terminations around the block.

The 4 speed auto is a long served unit but when its done its done. Try and find one that's done less than 100,000miles

Toyota Camrys like the GM Cavalier/Camira are the white goods of the automotive world they were not built to last forever, just for now.

Unless this car is in otherwise remarkable condition for its age i.e. no rust, no dings or body damage, unmarked interior, fitted with every factory option. Then I suggest you find something else to throw you money at. Even the Wreckers in Oz are crushing them as they come through the doors, wheels and all.

I am really looking for a best repair method, money is not much of a problem, just don't want to go wasting it on nothing is all. I did have issues with old radiator before because I did not take time to check the coolant levels regularly when I got the car and it had run completely dry resulting in the cracked old radiator. I have sense learned much about mechanics and love working on & maintaining cars. So the engine being well past its end of life is not too much of a surprise to me, but thank you for the detailed reply. I also just talked to my dad who had this car before me & he told when he bought the car he had to first replace the automatic transmission so the transmission is not nearly as old as the car since my dad gave it to me about 1-2 years ago. and he had it for about a 3-4 years before he gave it to me, because he purchased it in 2005 and it had very low miles then. I know eventually I will need to rebuild or replace the engine, but I look forward to the work when it comes and want to get the most out of what this engine on it will do. So with the extra bit of info about the transmission can you tell me any more advice on this. And thank you for the quick reply and helpful info. Oh & I almost forgot I have been checking the coolant levels regularly & making sure that the engine oil and coolant levels are ok levels and doing regular oil changes every 3,000 miles about, also I did notice the transmission fluid is on the second to last notch there is four notches on the stick and its on 2nd notch, so not sure if this being low could have caused problem but considering my manual says its good with the thermostat as long as it states that its not hot, though if this gage is no good it may be hot, but I don't think the gage on that at least is wrong because the car does not produce heat from vent very hot anymore like it used to when it read normal. Instead it comes out cold, to lukewarm.

the only part that does not work with what you are saying and the facts I can see is the thermostat is stuck open not shut or for some other reason the engine is not heating up, because there is no warm or hot heat anymore in the car. I have been keeping track of the coolant levels since I got new radiator & never letting it get low and I replaced both upper & lower hoses when I replaced radiator & a few other little hoses so I don't think this could be the problem. I however have noticed a problem with the thermostat before and it was the one you mentioned when I had old radiator and I bought new one to put in. I will be installing it today I think it's just the water pump that I can't see a way to install without an engine hoist, so if this is possible I will be installing it.

If the car otherwise is in great shape, I would seriously look into a low mileage used engine/transmission package. Swap them out and drive away.

Look around, some of these with around 30,000 miles are quite reasonable. You can even find places that will do the swap, give you a warranty, and give you 18 months interest free payment plan.

Otherwise, I feel like you're going to be rebuilding this car one part at a time. I've tried it, (not intentionally), just one band aid after another. It gets expensive, fast. Money was tight, and I've cried real tears trying to keep cars like this going. It sucks.

I'm guessing, for $3000-$4000, you can have a vehicle that you can drive worry free, aside from brakes and stuff, for another 10 years. Why throw away $100-$200 at a time on an engine this old? Good luck!

I suggest acquiring a well used engine/trans to reduce the initial cost and rebuild them while you're still using the car. Then when the car finally qiuts you can swap power trains and be comfortable with the car again.

Still using car. (did you not read the first part of this?) Just wondering cuz the car is not usable right now, it won't move out of neutral where it is locked, attempting to move it anywhere just grinds the transmission. I'm still interested in other possibilities to me knowing this transmission is only 5 years old makes me think something else is causing these similar symptoms rather than the transmission being done.

Okay then trace the cable to its end and attempt to manipulte the lever manually to test your theory

bwire, That is a good idea for future reference though, even thought the car has already quit this time. Thanks.

sorry less than 5 years old makes me believe that something else is going wrong, considering the very first transmission it had lasted way longer than that.

I can get a new transmission no problem from O'Reilly's that's re-manufactured I'm guessing for 1,962.77 it comes with a 3yr or 300.000 mile warranty I am not going to let go of a car I already put a 3,000 dollar stereo into and a 2,000 dollar alarm also put in more than 1,000 in repairs brand new front axels from the autoparts place and a bran new battery they still have long warranties on them something like another 5 years at least.

$5000 for a stereo and alarm on a 1991 Camry?

Dude, you're beyond help............I'm done here. Good luck!

I think sentimental attachment syndrome may be clouding your judgement.

I installed the stuff myself though so it's all in parts not labor, I used to have a friend who worked at car toys and he showed me how to do all wiring and stuff myself.

and though the spec speakers for front & back can't be saved I can always take the stereo itself with me when I replace rides eventually.

Okay. I wasn't really trying to pick on you. You obviously have a lot more disposable income than I do. In my world, there's no such thing as a stereo system that's worth $3000. And then $2000 for an alarm to protect the stereo, it's way beyond my comprehension.

Maybe, you could open the trunk, place the speakers in there facing backwards, and use the sound to propel you forward. No tranny needed, just use the volume to control speed.

I agree with kramarat.

Around $7,000 into a ten year old car, and it still won't run? Wow. An internet search for them tells me the going price for a '91 Camry is around $2,500 USD. You must really like the car, or your tunes!

Wow....was 91 ten years ago seems like yesterday.

Couldn't help myself.

Here in Oz a top of the line, immaculate one owner low Km (under 60,000km) 91 Camry could be had for $1500 Oz Pesos, and it would be in show room condition with the plastic on the door trims and only driven every second Sunday unless it was raining.

However common or garden variety ones ? Even the wreckers aren't bothered in stripping anything more than the battery and tyres (if they're any good)out of them before they go straight to the crusher.

Yes I've spent an inordinate amount of money on a car (or few), My 86 Saab 900 Turbo was such a car, poured $7k in getting back on the road. On the road it stayed (very fast) till someone parked a truck on it when no one was looking. It was a rare car (in Oz) when new, and rarer 20 years later. I do miss that car.

The Op owns a life support system for a stereo. The joy being that the stereo can be transplanted into something else.

I have a friend who has just recently gone through the pain of rebuilding a 3S motor in her ST162 Celica that she bought for $500. For the money she spent on OEM only parts to rebuild the motor she could of bought 2 good Celicas. That was doing the work herself...."Oh What a Feeling, Bend Over!"(toyota car ad jingle in Oz)

Camry's have a service life of 8 years @25,000km(15,000Miles) per year, anything after that is a bonus. The Op's car is well past its end of life, and by all accounts is overdue for a motor + transmission transplant. There are lots of options including 1/2 cut JDM imports, wreckers and Jap importers. There are pitfalls in that there are a number of variants of the 3S motor but nothing that's a total show stopper. There is also the option of buying another running car and ratting it for all you need.

Like I said before; Unless this car is in otherwise remarkable condition for its age i.e. no rust, no dings or body damage, unmarked interior, fitted with every factory option. Then I suggest you find something else to throw you money at.

I meant that most sincerely as a certified car nut.

My Partner owned a 92 Camry sedan, it was very typical of a whitegoods car. It got to the point where the cost of repairs to maintain roadworthy status exceeded its net realisable worth. It drove ok (for a tired snail when compaired to my 180hp SAAB Turbo) but couldn't keep up with the rust and parts obsolescence. Toyota know how to charge for OEM parts...

its only 19 years young, way younger than me the way my car should be if it's older than me then there's a problem with age. I really am not too into it. I like it cuz its easy to work on, the one I was in love with was my ford ranger and it went to car heaven (or so I was told by the guy who toed it away after my 80mph roll off the freeway it kept me completely safe to the end though) Wish I could get that truck back if it was not for being on vacation at the time clear on the other side of the states I would never have let that thing go I would have had it toed home & rebuilt it salvaging as much as I could, I met my first love in that vehicle and it treated me the best out of any ride I've had sense. I gave it regular oil changes myself and replaced parts on it myself. I would never let a shop touch that ride.

lol, I bought that stuff on credit though. I have now very bad credit, so everything new comes out of my income. I never really had that much income just really good credit at one time, my card had a 13,000 $ limit. Now I can't even get a cc no bank not even fingerhut will give me one lol

You can't see me, but I'm sitting here rolling my eyes and shaking my head. Glad it's going.

oh yeah & the new starter & thermostat & waterpump I have yet to install, my issues with the last two is without a service manual I see no way to install them without an engine hoist, does anyone out there know a way around this, for an average person that doesn't have a mechanics shop yet? I also have a practically bran new radiator in this.

I like working on the car like I said, so repairs that are possible I do and have fun with, but the parts that don't go in without engine hoist those upset me only because I can't afford an engine hoist lol I know soon I will have to replace the rotors & dust covers & my brake pads. I am installing my starter today since I can't drive anywhere I do have a car to drive now while I am working on this one and getting it back to running condition thanks to my family, but I still don't want to give up on this does anyone out there see anything else it could be other than the (3-4yr old) transmission that is still practically new?

didn't mean to contradict myself what I meant was I will have a car to drive now, my family got me one its not here yet though.

A car or truck should have sentimental value to its owner always if it does not then you are not taking good enough care of it to make it last, at least in my opinion anyway.

I think I found a possible lead on this after talking to a transmission shop, they told me if my drive axle has broken or popped back out of transmission it could cause this rare grinding noise in an automatic transmission car. So I am going to look into this, it has a nice warranty it's still under from O'Reilly's too so if it's a bad axle I get a free replacement.

Thanks for all the help at least trying those of you that did, my problem is solved. That jolt I felt when pulling into lot was the new axle popping out of place and the clap coming undone. I just popped it back in and now the transmission works like new, I still need to find out how to re-clamp that annoying metal thing better this time or find a new replacement clamp thats better to hold it in there now.

Great! Now you can follow-up with the suggestion in post #4 if so inclined.

Ndeed now I have a new project to work on so that when it dies for real I will be able to bring it back to life. Just have to give it car CPR (cry poor ride) and then get someone to help me tow it to my bro in-laws and ask him nicely to borrow an engine hoist to do the brain (engine) & heart (transmission) transplant on it. lol

You say you check the coolant level regularly but the engine runs cold. Do you remove the radiator cap to check the level? or are you just checking the overflow tank?

I suspect the latter.

As someone else said you are probably running with no coolant, so the sensor is not detecting any heat.

You said that when you first got the car you ran out of coolant and cracked the radiator, this would normally kill a motor. I suspect the only reason the engine still runs is because it is worn out. A nice tight one would seize up.

My suggestion; 1. do what you are currently doing but don't go for any long drives.

2. Get a spare engine from a wrecker and rebuild it.

P.P.S. credit cards are not free money, you have to pay it back, with interest. The bank may take your possesions to sell and recover their money.

I never bother with the overflow tank anymore, thanks. I did mistake that for the real levels before I worked on & replaced the radiator after doing a flush & refilling it I realized that was just an overflow tank, but really they should have labelled them that or at least not gave acceptable levels of how high the stupid overflow tank should or shouldn't be who cares about it why put good & max levels on the side. The thermostat works now that the drive shaft is back into the transmission anyway, must have been part of the same problem, I thought it didn't the first day cuz I just didn't run the engine long enough to see since it's so cold outside temp wise it seemed like longer than it was. I do however have a new problem, I can't get the vibration clip to hold the axle in anymore last time I had someone help me with it and all they used was pliers, but I can't figure out how. Is there a guide for this somewhere? or can someone give me directions on how this is done or if I need a specialty tool for it?

cc is free money if you know how to use them and avoid repo, besides I bought that stereo stuff years ago before this car even and carried it over from older one. The debt is so old it's about to fall off my credit history as inactive for statute of limitations law. <br> <br> I am going to buy service manual tomorrow I already have an e-copy on pc from a friend, but I suspect it's missing sections, cuz I can't find anything about the vibration clip in it.

Replace the overflow tank, it is important. Modern radiators are designed to run full all the time, i.e. no air gap in the top. The hot and therefore expanded coolant has to go somewhere or it will split the tank. It is designed to escape past the cap and down the overflow tube. If it is allowed to tip onto the road, there will be a resultant air gap created in the top of the tank when the coolant cools down and shrinks in volume. The next time the engine heats up more coolant will be tipped onto the road and more air sucked in when it cools. The radiator will go through this process several times losing coolant each time resulting in a seized motor.

The overflow tank stores the coolant for the radiator to 'suck' back each time it cools, hence the min level on the tank. If you overfill the coolant tank it will simply push the excess out onto the road wasting coolant and your time, hence the max level.

thanks for the explanation, I do see the purpose in the overflow fill levels now. I luckily had it well over min from keeping the radiator itself so full been checking it every day before I drive it.

ok well the levels good on that too, but I still really need help with how to install this vibration clip so it holds my right front axle into the transmission and is there a special way to do this so that it won't pop back off another few months down the road. Last time I had someone help me when I first installed this and it looked like he had it on there pretty good with pliers is it just a poor quality vibration clip or was it not fastened right? Currently I can't drive anywhere without my axle falling back out, when ever I o over a bump, I know that without trying to drive it, simply because the experience at the post office. When I drove in there that's the jolt I felt was it coming undone and I thought something fell off my car but couldn't find because the clip did fall off but it was still hanging there around my axle.

ok now I see the slot in the transmission where it holds the vibration clip, wow this place really doesn't help much with anything both my problems were solved in other places. Still having no luck getting it into the dang slot though when holding the pliers tight enough to get it to go in there I can't pull or it just slides off tried using a flat head screw driver to pop it into place and that doesn't seem to work either it appears to be in place but as soon as I let go it pops back out, not sure if its a bad vibration clip without enough spring or if its the slot on the transmission is damaged somehow and not holding it or possibly the drive shaft is just bad it has a bigger gap then I remember being there but it won't go in any farther and it sounds like its in right when I shift so not sure, the drive shaft is still under warranty, but I don't want to take it back unless I know for sure its an issue with it, cuz uninstalling & installing those are a lot of work.

'Book' time: removing and refitting BOTH front driveshafts = 30 minutes.

( Vehicle on hoist, or raised on stands)

Not expensive when you know what you're doing.

The spring-wire circlip goes onto the end of the driveshaft spline in it's dedicated groove. Care must be taken to have the both ends of the clip 'turned in' so as not to get fouled on the internal spline when refitting the shaft. At NO time must you be able to feel the bare ends of the clip 'above' the groove. Wriggle it round a little, and test.

Providing that there is no old clip or pieces of, in the retaining groove inside the output shaft 'socket', the drive half-shaft simply 'bumps in' and clicks home. If it can be withdrawn again without significant force it's not fully 'home'.

With all of your running with the shaft-half not properly engaged, I'm surprised that the seal is not allowing gear oil to escape due to the seal-land not engaging the seal properly. Is there any oil in the thing?

With all of the grinding and grunching there will be loose metal filings on the oil.

Change it, and work out a way to flush the gearcase with cheap light oil. Then drain it fully before replenishing with good quality, appropriate gear oil.

Stu.

Thanks Stu, That was exactly what I needed to know and even though I had already once again found out somewhere else your extra info about the metal filings meaning I need the full transmission flush a little earlier this time was very helpful info too.

hmmm the clips on the end of axle near wheel are on good & tight the way it came from the factory where it was re-manufactured. What exactly do you mean by is there any oil in there, that part should still be fine unless there is something I'm missing in this mentioned other possible problems. The only clip I was having trouble with was the one that goes into the transmission and now it's all the way in there where it goes, but the clip is still not fitting right, I suspect a bad vibration clip. Problem being I don't have $75 in my account till after the first and they want me to either bring down original axle to exchange it for lifetime warranty or buy another one then come back for the refund at O'reilly's. By the way I would never go to les schwab again after what they did yesterday. They told me sure we can set the vibration clip down in there for you and I told them I bought the axle & had a friend help e put it in and that its still under a lifetime warranty through O'Reilly's they knew all that and said that was fine and that if it needed swapping out for a new axle they would install it for me at $80 labor. I was thinking this works out a great solution since I can run an axle back to O'reilly's without a drivable car and it's right across the street so I can walk it back over the old one collect the new one & they could install it, so they called ordered the part for me then told me to come back tomorrow & they would install it. I called asked when they want the car in and the same guy got on the phone and told me he could not install anything I bought previously somewhere else, I mentioned yesterday he told me there was no problem and they could install it there and he denied all of what he originally said. My guess is he talked to someone and found out they charge a markup on parts and got told not to follow through with what was promised. I just think it's unprofessional to deal that way, if they already promised it they should have to deliver on their word. Maybe it's just me, but if I ran a shop even if it was not normally policy and some new guy that did not know offered a better deal I would cut the loss and follow through for my companies good reputation, grant it I might fire the employee if it ever happened more than once, but I would still honor what was promised. I decided to check into getting my money back for old part so I could buy it from them at a $30 mark up and the price changed on it to a $40 markup when I checked into it cuz the parts more expensive then they thought, well knowing they already order ed it & the fact it's not any more cost then I paid cuz the day before they also told me when they asked "Where did you buy the axle?" O'Reilly's "great that same place we deal with all the time." and the fact its already ordered & in stock that made me more inclined to say whatever I'll do the work myself rather than pay your price that keeps going up $80. - $196. that's just not cool, very disappointed in the new place, it's the first one to open in my town never had a Les Schwab before and I used to like them a lot and drive out of town to get tires done, even just the fact they have such a high markup on parts is wrong to me I would never over-charge people on parts, if I ran a shop.

"What exactly do you mean by is there any oil in there"

Well,

The fill/level plug is horizontally higher than the drive output and so if the half-shaft is withdrawn oil will leak/ pour out onto the road. If it doesn't there is insufficient oil in the gearcase.

Seems there is something you are missing-----

"The only clip I was having trouble with was the one that goes into the transmission and now it's all the way in there where it goes"

That's the only clip I'm talking about. The one that goes into the transmission final drive hub. Or don't you understand the correct language here?

I've begun to worry that the old car has one more problem---You!

This entire operation is the very simplest of procedures. A matter of undoing all of the bolts and nuts and following the procedure I've laid out. You don't have to remove the shaft out from the wheel hub, nor take off the brake disc. Although it must be said here that it's heavy to maneuver like that.

If you have the workshop book for the machine just follow it's procedure description.

And then refill the gearbox with oil.

Stu.

oh okay, yeah it's extremely low on the transmission oil now, found out the problem the auto-parts place gave me the wrong axle all together and that's why it was falling out. I need to drop the pan & clean the metal screen anyway so I'm not going to refill the oil till after that then I will use cheapest I can find cuz it now needs a high powered flush and I found oil can henry's can do it for a fair price. the best price I found anyway................. Stu, I am also having a problem with my mom's new car please do a search for it I am posting it here in a sec with all symptoms and you were most helpful on here, so maybe you can tell me what's going on. I would really appreciate it. Titled "1997 Ford Taurus GL"

I'm not an idiot btw was testing to make sure you were not one, a lot of people I talked to that I thought were smart mechanics mistook what I was talking about "the vibration clip" for the boot claps the refereed to as clips and I bough the axle new so I would never need to mess with those unless they started leaking. It gets annoying when you have to specify what end of the axle your having trouble with, when you have already stated the part name. I am completely satisfied that you are most likely a lot smarter than me about cars now, thanks for clarifying that we are on the same page. oh & if you specified is there any transmission oil in there I would not have had to doubt you, but axle oil is on other end inside boot so I was naturally a little bit skeptical. After talking to people that don't know difference between a clamp & a clip lol who wouldn't be.

sorry bout all the typos my wireless is getting low batteries again, or was anyway.

oh & sorry my info was incorrect I did have it fully home & I went over quite a few bumps to get it to closest shop so they could do the parts exchange, I didn't have access to my moms car at the time so I couldn't very well drive it down there without an axle to exchange the axle that was wrong myself, so I found a place that only ripped me off for $125 to install a 3 year warranty junk part, before I had a decent brand new axle from auto parts grant it the wrong axle but it had a lifetime warranty & if I had a friend that was not busy working or too far away to help me I would have gladly spent the time putting this part in myself and have a better deal, but ya know sometimes luck just isn't with you. I'm not lazy or anything I just like having at least one friend there to back me up in case something goes wrong or I need an extra hand or if nothing else someone to talk to and watch me do all the work. lol and jokingly tell me I'm doing it all wrong.

ok I still don't have a repair manual for this, can someone tell me where the pan is located more specific than under the car lol I need to clean the metal filter & magnets myself before taking it to get it flushed & have no idea where this is on this car I would guess close to transmission, so in the center? between the front two wheels since it's front wheel drive? can anyone give any more details on what exactly I need to look for and how to do this correctly myself?

There is no 'pan'. Most FWD set-ups have the pan actually on top of the valve body in the engine bay. Sometimes about near/underneath the battery.

In the alloy gearcase, mostly in bottom of the the case that's clearly the final drive, you have a large headed drain bung ( Toyota, should be a large head. Nissan likes to use an internal square drive bung) and then a separate fill/level bung, higher up.

Jack the car so that the drain is at the lowest level, horizontally, so as to get a thorough drain.

Remove the drain bung, let out all of the old oil. Remove the fill/level bung and add about 2lt 'quickly' so as to promote a flushing of the innards. There's only so much that a magnetic bung will capture. Let it drain fully. Lightly install the drain bung and add 2lt of oil through the fill hole. Install the fill bung( if ,in fact, there is one).

Start and run the motor, with the wheels free of the ground, car stable, and run the transmission just above idle, in gear, for 2minutes ONLY.

Thoroughly drain the oil ( take out the bung and go and have lunch).

Refit and tighten all bungs.

Most auto transmissions can be filled through the dipstick tube.

Replenish the gearbox with the correct type and weight of oil.

ok is there even a metal screen to clean? I thought that would be in the pan though, and if I am getting a regular power flush done right away anyway this seems pointless unless there is a metal filter to take out & clean at least possibly magnets as well.

My dad had this car before me and the transmission was new when he got it so it has had regular power flushes since then. I know on older ones that have not been maintained properly sometimes this does more harm than good, but this one has been so I will continue that regular maintenance, lucky the metal shavings getting in there coincided with it's time for that power flush anyway, I would have had to do it soon either way.