I've been watching it in increments, when I've got some time, and find it interesting........beats the hell out of television.

Like everything else on CR4, or the entire web for that matter, it's not required watching. I thought some others might be interested.

I'm surprised you devoted so much time to your lengthy response, when you easily could have just skipped the thread entirely.

About 4 minutes. ;-)

I have always thought, if we're here then others must be out there. But, my wife says I must have come from somewhere else (not sure if that was meant to slanderous or not). Makes for good movies though.

She's a wife, it was meant to be.

Yahlasit

There's a big difference in a UFO and an extraterrestrial craft. "Unexplained" flying objects have generated millions of stories by "witnesses" and reporters eager for the scoop.

My own belief is that anyone with the intelligence and resources to travel dozens/hundreds/thousands of light years to reach earth would surly be smart enough to communicate with us first.

I'm not saying they're not out there, just that we can't prove it either way. Kinda like God, I guess, you either believe or you don't. And, since God, nor any other extraterrestrial, has never communicated with me, I worry about more earthly things.

I know it. I dismiss most of this stuff. But the fact that these guys are retired military, for the most part, lends some credence to what they're saying. It seems like they would be more accurate than say, an old farmer, or some kids out necking in the woods. The government cover up wouldn't surprise me.

Like I said, I just threw it up there in case anyone might be interested. I would also agree, that arguing about whether or not ET spacecraft are real, would be a lot like arguing about God...........kind of pointless.

I should have put a question mark at the end of the thread title. It's not like I'm trying to sell it as indisputable evidence.

It's interesting stuff, and I watched a little bit of it some time ago. I may watch some more over the weekend, since I have 3 days off.

I'm catching a cold, so I'll be dosing myself with some medicinal alcohol and I just might be in the mood for some ET stuff.

Be safe and have a Happy New Year.

I've been watching on and off. Just about through part one. It's pretty fascinating stuff........to me anyway. The guys they're interviewing sound credible.

Watch out with that medicine, you just might start seeing some UFOs.

Happy New year!!!!

Hey, look at it this way........watching that video isn't much worse than prowling CR4.

I think it's cool. Thanks for posting. I do like the fact that there are so many different people in positions of authority who are speaking about this. We should know by now that our little planet is not the center of the universe, and neither are we :)

Plus, without discussion we'd live in a very boring place.

Jules

Hi Jules

I'm a little conflicted over it all. I believe the people in the video are telling the truth. I believe that the govt would cover it it up. I also believe that not one of those people would have gone public if they were the only one. I think each one of them only did it with the stipulation that all of the others would also. But, I can't make the leap to saying for sure there have been ET visitations.

If there have been, it's a little worrying to think that there has been actual contact with these high level govt entities, as I think they would tend to shoot first, and ask questions later. Think Kent State, Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc. I have little faith that the govt is capable of handling these situations in a manner that wouldn't have the potential of putting all of us at risk.

"anyone with the intelligence and resources to travel dozens/hundreds/thousands of light years to reach earth would surly be smart enough to....."

Allow me to finish that sentence: "Avoid contact with us."

I just see it now,"Hey,lets go down and have a chat with these creatures" "Are you nuts! Look at what they are doing to each other,and they are just black,white,red and yellow..WE ARE GREEN..what would they do to us.?"

It is easy for me to see why direct contact has been avoided,and probably will be until we learn to get along with each other on this tiny little planet.

We are not ready or mature enough to join a larger galactic community.

As amazing as it would be to discover other intelligent life in the universe, it would be even more amazing to find none.There are billions of planets out there that are billions of years older than the earth,and millions of generations more evolved than humans.They were probably cruising the galaxies when our ancestors were crawling out of the slime onto land for the first time.We probably hold as much interest for these elders as an ant mound does for us.

It is merely ego that lets us entertain the illusion of exclusive sentience in the universe.

HTRN

You are probably right. We're not ready.

There is intelligent life out there. Unfortunately it found US first and then wisely choose to go into hiding.

If you came from an advanced alien culture would you want to come and be friends with us after having reviewed our history and how we presently act toward each other?

I've seen something in the airspace above a nuclear power plant that's near me. Kind of glowed red and green and pretty small from my vantage point. I know it wasn't an airplane.

It's always at night, and the way it moves, it looks like the way a tethered balloon would move at around 4000-5000 feet in a high, irregular wind,(up, down and side to side), and occasionally coming to a full stop.

When it's around I watch it. I don't bother even mentioning it to many people. Hell, enough of them already think I'm a little crazy. Why bother?

It's cool to watch though.

You seem to be quite the photographer. Why not take some photos, or movin' pictures?

It wouldn't prove anything. Plus, for all I know, nuke plants might send up big balloons to test the air above for radiation, maybe someone here knows.

Besides that......I've got bigger problems than UFOs.......I think my video camera might be possessed by some kind of entity.

I took it to my daughter's Christmas parade, and the damned thing kept zooming in on the behinds of nice looking women...........I didn't even realize it until I looked at the footage. Now I've got to make excuses for not letting anyone see it until I can do some editing. Crazy stuff!!!!

Now just wait a minute...

LynDoor™ Industries has patented that camera technology, and we have not licensed it to anyone, so it has been pirated! Some rascal is horning in on our ridiculous ideas valuable contributions to society, and it must be stopped.

At your convenience, please forward a copy of the video for review.

I heard recently that there is a shortage of exorcists, so you might have to wait in line to do something about this demon....

Absolutely true! I was in New Orleans during a local fiesta (Mardi Grass or something). I was attracted by the architecture of the French Quarter and have taken two rolls of picture (an old Pentax with zoom) of the old buildings, especially the balconies.

To my amazement, when I have taken the pictures from Walgreens, all of the pictures were depicting young creatures, from Earth I presume, showing, deliberately, their bare firm, round, pointing forward, mammal organs. I still think that it was a demon that possessed me , scuza me, my camera.

Something like that makes you a believer!

"it found US first and then wisely choose to go into hiding."

Don't you mean "choosededed" ?

Astronomers at the University of California, Santa Cruz, and the Carnegie Institution of Washington have determined that the closest habitable planet is 20 light years away. An infinite amount of energy (reguardless of the rest mass) would be needed to move anything other than something with zero mass, that quickly.

According to the special theory of relativity, an object's mass increases exponentially as its speed increases; any further acceleration will get harder and harder, even if the object is the size of a single atom. So it's never going to happen, wait, unless they are microscopic, super intelligent lifeforms, oooooo, that really bakes my noodle. Guess they wouldn't be in this video though.

So what is the fastest speed attainable to travel 20 light years to Earth: how long would it take to travel 20 light years at that speed, and what would the mass of the object be, how much would the fuel weigh. . . are we there yet? Are we there yet? and so on. . .

"So I am traveling at the speed of light and I turn on my headlights." Steven Wright

I lived in Santa Cruz for 11 years and encountered some of the strangest life forms I've ever seen while I was there.

I've lived in the Santa Cruz Mountains and concur in the observation of the strange life forms extant.

There are still more Volkswagen busses/campers per square mile around Santa Cruz than anywhere on earth.

University of California at Santa Cruz is part of an educational system that pays the executive levels quite well. At the moment, the highest earners in the system are threatening lawsuits to get bigger pensions since the system pays pensions only on the first $245,000 in pay, and these folks are over $400,000 . And we ask....why is California Broke ?

Don't even get me started.

I guess I don't understand why there is a question about the credible UFO Testimony...if it's unidentified and someone testifies that it is unidentified, then what's the issue?

Now the question of someone testifying about some "assumed" identification of a UFO without credible proof, that's a different question.

(without my glasses almost everything is unidentified!)

I have no need to watch it. I know that we're being visited by ETs as I have witnessed UFOs on 3 separate occasions.

The first one occurred in the Saudi desert 2 nights before the ground war (Op. Desert Sword) back in '91. A saucer approximately 50 meters in diameter hovered silently above the desert floor (approx. 100 m AGL) a Klick away from us for almost 25 minutes. IT shot straight up vertically into the crystal clear sky at an incredible rate. I and several on my junior Officers + Senior NCOs all agreed that it must have ascended at least in excess of Mach 1. We kept on reviewing the several videotapes we had and made our estimates on that information. No sonic boom either, nor any sound made by the craft. Every one of my troops witnessed it. That's 168 men in my reinforced Engineering Company (Combat Engineers). 8 other units around us (supporting the 2nd ACR) witnessed it too that night. Next morning we were visited by US Army Intel brass and several CIA folks, who thoroughly debriefed all of us and confiscated our film and video tapes (I had taken both myself).....all under direct orders. We were told never to discussed this matter for National Security reasons. This is the first time I have revealed this in this forum. Don't tell me that the US Military is not interested any longer in UFOs since Project Blue Book's demise. That's pure BS through and through.

Second and third times have occurred at night (both times around 10 PM) while driving home from a meeting. Both occurrences happened along a section of the very lightly travelled and very dark Taconic State Parkway, just east of Poughkeepsie, NY.

My second UFO encounter was a craft that was triangular shaped, non-reflective blackish color, with a wingspan of at least 300 m and had 7 very intense white spotlights (akin to very big super-bright LED spots) in the underside. It glided above the highway very silently (not a sound) at about 500 AGL. Witnessed it (along with 9 other motorists who had pulled over and stopped as well) for about 3 minutes. Approximate airspeed was about 20 mph. That encounter happened on Oct. 16, 2005.

My third UFO encounter was on Sept. 9, 2009 in approximately the same location (by 3 miles) as the #2. Craft was boomerang shaped, again having a wingspan of around 300 m as well, and featured a single red spot in the middle, flanked by 2 super-bright white spots each side along the underside. Color was almost the same as sighting #2. Silent as well as it glided over the highway at approximately 15 to 20 mph. 4 other motorists and myself, who had pulled over and jumped out of our cars & truck, witnessed this craft for about a minute and one-half.

I know my civilian and military aircraft inside and outside and backwards, and none of these UFOs were man-made and of this planet....totally beyond the technological means of our Earthly civilization. Test me, as I can positively ID nearly any man-made plane or chopper ever created (I've been an aviation fanatic since I was a tiny guy + my uncle (F-105D & F-105G), my first cousin (A retired Major General and former F-4 and F-16 pilot), and my brother ( a retired Lt. Col. & F-4, F-106 & F-16 pilot) were all USAF and ANG fighter pilots. My late dad was a retired US Army Col. with 27 years service. I myself am a military brat and served in the US Army and reserves with 14 years service....I KNOW MIL AIRCRAFT, THEIR PERFORMANCE ENVELOPES, AND THEIR CAPABILITIES!

Call me a liar or a nut, but that doesn't matter to me. I know what I saw, and I know what I didn't see, and these 3 craft were extraterrestrial. I risk a whole lot of credibility by revealing this to all in this forum (and the entire net) and it weights heavy on my mind doing so, just like Kramarat. I don't doubt his story either.....it';s very credible. There 's been many a UFO sighting around civilian nuke facilities and military nuclear posts and facilities worldwide.

I'll tell you this, and it's a guarantee: You can be a non-believer now, but once you witness a true UFO or flying craft not of this world you'll be a true believer too. I wasn't before, but I am now! I will never forget my encounters for the rest of my life. Also, I have no answers as to why they are here visiting us......maybe they have a "Prime Directive" not to contact us, not to interfere, and just observe. Who knows?!

Now everywhere I travel I carry my Nikon FG 35mm SLR film camera equipped with a Nikon Motor drive and a Nikkor 80-210mm tele-zoom....always fully loaded with 1000 ASA color film....fresh batteries swapped in and out every month. I also carry along my very capable Fujifilm S602Z Digital SLR camera (also has built-in video feature).......just in case I come across another one someday. Next time I'll be able to prove to others with what I saw with high resolution film and digital pics!

I hope this discussion here also helps others to come forward and describe their own UFO encounters. Many thanks to Kramarat for his courage stepping forward!

Have a great day!

Thanks CaptMoosie,

I've been through part one of the video. According to the naysayers here, I would have to assume that every one of the former high ranking military personnel interviewed, as well as two astronauts, are all under the influence of drugs and completely delusional. I would also have to reach the conclusion that the human race is so highly advanced, that nothing can possibly exist in physics that we don't already have a grasp of. Yeah, okay, that's a lot easier swallow.

I'll be watching part two over the weekend.

I'm sure everyone that witnessed what you did is hesitant to talk about it for fear of ridicule..........just the way the government wants it.

For one thing, unless you have access to the complete interview tapes you have no idea what the real context of what each person is saying. News and other "shows" do pick and choose the segments they want and do use them to paint the story the way they want it.

What you choose to believe it totally up to you and I respect that.

I just find these types of shows untrustworthy much like Zeitgeist, which is extraordinarily well produced and compelling, but propaganda nevertheless.

I started watching the first segment with the same skepticism, but found myself watching it through.......started part 2 this morning.

After watching it, the pedigree of the witnesses, combined with the straight forward manner of the discussion has led me to believe that they are credible.........but, that's just my opinion. It doesn't seem to me to be chopped and diced to create a stir.

If they are trying to paint a false story, I can't figure out the motivation. If it was fame and fortune, they wouldn't be running it for free on youtube. If everything was minced up and shown out of context, I think that former military brass, as well as former astronauts, would set the record straight.......very quickly.

But, I did honestly state from the start, that it's something that I found interesting, and thought that others might also...........nothing more, nothing less. An argument about whether or not ET craft exist is completely pointless.

I just started part 2, and it's pretty interesting too. They're getting into recovered craft and the reverse engineering of the technology found on them. Again, interviewing former high ranking military personnel.

Ky, sorry to disappoint you, but my unit was attached to the 2nd Armored Cav. Regiment and we were way way way west along the Tapline Road (located mostly parallel to the Saudi-Iraq border), nearly 300 Klicks inland of the Persian Gulf and not affected whatsoever by the Kuwaiti oil well fires demo'ed by the Iraqi engineers. We had clear skies (more like a break in the overcast), unlike what was found in the vicinity south of the Kuwaiti-Saudi border. To my unit's west was the 101st Airborne Division, the 2nd British Armoured Division and finally the French 6th Armoured Brigade.....we, along with the remainder of 24th ID, Mech. were all part of the XVIII Airborne Corps and did the "Hail Mary" play into Iraqi, and then easterly into Kuwait paralleling the Tigress River and tangling it up with the Republican Guard several times.

Sorry to disappoint you, bit your assertions are far wrong. I don't want to be argumentative with you, but what I have presented before and now is fact.

Sorry for the rambling (some what), but I'm on my 3rd tall one of homemade Bailey's Irish Cream, and it's New Years Eve after all.

BTW, Desert Sword was the Ground War segment of Desert Storm (the combined air war and ground war started on Jan 15, 1991 Zulu)....look it up!

Happy New Year!

Right on Moose - Having lived in Roswell, New Mexico for several years & talked to relatives of persons who witnessed the passage of the army transporter with the canvas covered circular craft through town, the people who's grandfather was at the crash site and others who related that Govt. officials contacted eveyone with first hand knowledge and threatened their life if they ever told what they saw, I have to believe that an extra-terresteral craft was recovered there. BTW why is the Govt. maintaining a secret base in NEvada (Area 51) on a blackout budget of $Billions & protected by shoot to kill guards.????????. The people will never get official confirmation of this, this has been the policy for 60 years - & will be as long as circumstances permit......

Did your sighting look anything like this? Or any of the other craft in these pictures?

lightasmass:

Nope. The answer to your question is no in regards to craft witnessed in my first sighting. The photos in your link show something metallic shaped like a saucer. But I might add that the visual evidence is somewhat limited. It would be better if it had been a video and not a digital of film photograph. By interpretation, it looks like a saucer, but could even be a metallic/chrome hub cap for all I know, based solely on evidence presented. No surprise that the Troop that supposedly took the pic is AWOL and missing. Also, the pic is not contributed to any given name. Could be a fake for all I know. What does MUFON say about this pic? Was it ever verified or substantiated. Other witnesses? Unfortunately, it is all to easy to fake an object in a digital pic what with the technology found in many graphics platforms. There are a great number of "fake" UFO photos found on the net and deemed as such by authorities and photographic analysis experts. That doesn't mean that all UFO photos are fakes. A great number of UFO photos were taken before the digital age with good old fashion emulsion film.

The craft I witnessed in the Saudi Desert in the early hours of Feb. 22, 1991 was saucer shaped (like two pie plates put together), featured a dome on the upper side and a smaller dome on the underside. Craft was not witnessed to have been metallic, but rather nebulous or plasma in nature that turned from red to orange to yellow. You could make out the shape of the craft even though it wasn't sharp or distinct. When it blasted upwards it was extremely bright red.

That's all I am going to say about this matter. What done is done.

In the world of photoshop all pictures are suspect. I just came across this one looking for some good photos. Did you go through any of the others? Any of them look like the one you saw? It showed 284 in their catalog.

Saw same same. Osifer sayd was

wit aferburn

nightime red

so fas not listen til go sky far up

soly engrish new. hope you ok unerstand

The colors and shapes in your photos do not match the description in post 124, to which you seem to be responding.

Not same on google can find color shape vector. Is like imagine dark

The whole point of supposedly correlated reports is that some things should be the same.

The first picture looked like a fairly normal aircraft, except for the weird "tutu" cloud.

The second picture was unsymmetrical, and completely silly if this craft is expected to land later, shearing off the lower tail fin. Same weird "tutu" cloud, except tilted.

The third picture was completely uninformative.

Please provide a better explanation.

The pics are of a USN or USMC (can't tell which Service from the lousy pics + too far away) F/A-18E Super Hornet passing through the Transonic or Sonic...anyways, near or above MACH 1. The cloud is actually water vapor in the atmosphere that's being compressed by the aircraft's passage through the air at such a high speed.....nothing abnormal about it as it happens every day will high performance mil aircraft.

That just turned one alleged UFO into an IFO (or almost, anyway).

Tornado, that's a correct statement.....it's an IFO. No mistaking it.

I know my aircraft through and through......grew up around fighters......uncle flew F-105D Thuds and F-105G Wild Weasels in Nam (3 tours of duty)....cousin (a Ret. BG) last flew F-16C as 178th FW Wing Commander OHANG, and lastly my kid brother (a Ret. Lt. Col.) flew F-15A/C, F-106, and lastly the F-16C with the NJANG "Jersey Devils".

I was a 23 year member of the former National Warplane Museum (Geneseo and later Elmira NY)...last 6 years I sat on the annual "Wings of Eagles" Airshow Planning Committee.....met a number of former AstroNUTZ, fighter jocks and WWII/Korea/Nam fighter and bomber Vet jocks incl. Chuck Yeager. Frank Borman, Gordie Cooper, Bob Hoover, etc. etc. etc. Life was GOOD!!!!!

My uncle was a maintenance tech in the Air National Guard (Spokane and Fairbanks), and as a kid I got to sit in an F-89 Scorpion at Geiger Field. Many moons ago, as you can see. Other than watching some Blue Angels and Thunderbirds shows, and a few radical air maneuvers (~1990) at the Yakima Firing Center, that's all I know. But even a walking Jayne's wouldn't necessarily know what is emanating out of the Skunk Works.

A key problem bedeviling UFO reports is that the events are transient, often poorly recorded, and generally not replicable. Thus systematic study is difficult. I can't speak for ET psychology, but normally explorers will drop anchor, come ashore, and hope the natives are friendly. The stereotypical request is "Take me to your leader." I haven't heard of any credible reports like that.

In this thread, my stance is that of a hard-nosed skeptic. But I am by no means immovable. Just show me the money evidence. The OP video did almost everything wrong for convincing an open-minded but cautious skeptic, and just about everything right to pander to gullible viewers. "Executive Summary," "All rights reserved," "Disclosure...." Gimme a break.

I realize that if someone sees an ET, a leprechaun, a unicorn, or a god--but no one else, or only a few companions, see it--it is hard to tell a convincing story. Nonetheless, such visitations have no provenance for other persons. As Carl Sagan put it, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Theatrics do not suffice. Nor does fervency.

If in that first shot it was coming toward you low and at night the fuselage would be blurred and 'tutu' back-lit by the after-burn. This is presuming enough moisture is present, but one can understand it looking like a disc edge on with domes top and bottom.

As it is very difficult to see these aircraft a night and you can't hear them coming, this 'tutu' formation could just suddenly appear and disappear. Meaning see it, see it not.

I don't know why the after burner shot (the last one) is blue, but maybe this is just what the web had to offer. However a receding (climbing) after burner in a vapor trail (at night) looks a large red ball. And shrinks rapidly with altitude or loss of trail, or falling below trans sonic, < pick one.

Yes, it is true what you say about visually witnessing a high performance military aircraft at night, especially modern fighter aircraft. This is especially true for laymen who are not familiar with fighter aircraft, particularly when it comes to visual ID and knowing the operational and performance envelope of such aircraft. Most Military and non-military people that know their aircraft stuff will not be visually fooled while observing such a/c daytime or night time. That also goes for civilian aircraft as well.

But you forgot to mention one thing: modern fighter aircraft have an unmistakable jet turbine noise, whether it is in afterburner, full Military Thottle or not, heard daylight or night time, with pairs of engines or singular....anyone who truly knows mil a/c will not be incorrectly IDing them, whether it was a F-15E Strike Eagle, a GR1 Panavia Tornado, a F-16C, F-117A Nighthawk, or a Sukhoi Su-33 Flanker.

I bet you not too many people in this forum (or elsewhere for that matter) can correctly describe to me the main differences between a Block 25 and a Block 40 Lockheed F-16 Fighting Falcon without doing a Google or Wikipedia search on the subject, and then again if they did so, they'd still not provide answers 100% to my satisfaction. Also, many people would be very hard pressed to correctly provide the name of the aerospace company that originally designed and built the F-16. Also, what are the two (2) nicknames attributed to the F-16?

Tornado: nice that you got to get up close and personal with the good old Northrup F-89 Scorpion back in the 1950's and early 1960's! Was it a "C" model? I am assuming since it was a Air Guard bird your dad was in the ANG in the mid-50's to mid-60's (before the ANG transitioned to one of the Century Series Fighters like the F-100, F-101, or F-102A by the mid-60's, as was usually the case)? Anyhow, the F-89 had very graceful lines, that huge snoot, and those huge rocket pods that were situated on the wingtips containing a whole hell of a lot of firepower for shooting down bombers (but usually not be able to hit the side of a broad barn....no guidance system in them Thar folding fin rockets!).

My memory is a bit iffy, but I think that the F-106 was next in line after the Scorpions, at least at my uncle's base. (One of his sons--my cousin--has followed in the Air National Guard footsteps. By whatever various circumstances he did a tour in Bosnia in the mid-1990s, and has since been to the South Pole.) As you have described, it can be a remarkable life with remarkable friends. A beer with Borman perhaps?

Tornado, the transition to the F-106A from the F-89 would make sense with respect to the operations of the Air National Guard back in the mid-60's. The F-106A Delta Dart was after all the USAF/ANG Fighter Interceptor.

When my kid brother left the USAF (flew F-4E Phantom II) and joined the New Jersey ANG (the 177th Fighter Wing, "Jersey Devils" based at Atlantic City Intl. Airport) he flew the F-106A for some time before they transitioned to the F-16C, their current mount. He also flew combat sorties during the Bosnian War.....was based at Aviano AB, Italy. He always said that it was his favorite fighter to fly, just because of the huge amount of afterburner thrust and top speed, which I kind of remember was around 1,650 MPH. I'm sure that's the unclassified max. airspeed.

Did his cousin (or son) served with the 109th Airlift Wing (NYANG) based out of Schenectady County Airport (Glenville, NY) at the Samuel S. Stratton Air National Guard Base? They fly the Lockheed LC-130H/J Hercules (and 2 C-130H Herkies w/o skis), an aircraft equipped with massive skis. They are the only US Military unit so equipped and provide logistical support to the USA's National Science Foundation (NSF) in Greenland and Antarctica + the USAF's DEW radar stations in Greenland. When I was a kid I grew up within 3 miles of that base.....because of it I almost joined the USAF instead of the Army (my dad would have killed me! I wanted to be a pilot. Instead my brother joined the Air Force ROTC while attending Lehigh Univ. My Dad, a Retired Army Colonel, practically killed him instead!!!! LOL). Many of my Junior High and High School teachers served with the NYANG there, with at least 1/2 of them being pilots. & had a great influence on me. Before the LC-130H, they flew F-51 Mustangs (following WWII), F-86 Sabres, then KC-97 Stratotankers, and lastly C-130D HerkieBirds.

If I remember correctly, the 109th AW served in the Bosnian War as well, staging out of Aviano AB....they have a tremendous medical detachment, the 109th Aero-Medical Sqn. This is that same unit a few years ago that flew into the South Pole during really crappy weather (around -52 degrees F!!!!) to rescure that woman Doctor working for the NSF who had found that she had breast cancer and needed an immediate evac. for more advanced medical treatments.

Please check with him to verify if he served (or serves) with the 109th AW, because that's the only ANG unit that flies into the South Pole by staging out of the Air Base located at Christ Church, New Zealand. If so, that's very Kewl and he lives in the Capital District area of NYS near me!!!!

Tornado:

Actually, Frank Borman sat next to me at the table during a "welcoming party" for distinguished guests at the 1997 NWM "Wings of Eagles Air Show" held in Elmira NY. Both he and I were drinking Scotch whiskey on the rocks, with a twist of lemon. My late father, who had accompanied me to that year's show, was totally flabbergasted that I was first, sitting next to Borman, and secondly raising glasses to one another ("cheers!") while we were talking. He's a very interesting guy and fun to listen to....full of a ton of stories!

He had flown his beautifully restored Bell P-63 King Cobra to the show, whilst another pilot flew in his equally beautiful NA F-86D Sabre (formally Australian AF). BTW, his King Cobra won best of show (restored warbird) at the EAA show in Oshkosh that year....it was so pristine you could use it as dinner plate and eat off it! That's how clean this puppy was!

I'll have to rummage around my storage boxes down in the basement and find the pics of Mr. Borman and myself that my father took that day.....and hopefully post them here. I say hopefully, because there's over 6 dozen large storage boxes down there and things got mish-mashed quite a bit when we had a flooded basement 3 winters ago.....no guarantees that I'll find them, as a whole bunch of my belongings got trashed and tossed into the rented dumpster by the cleanup contractors.

"But you forgot to mention one thing: modern fighter aircraft have an unmistakable jet turbine noise, whether it is in afterburner, full Military Thottle or not, heard daylight or night time, with pairs of engines or singular....anyone who truly knows mil a/c"

Severely tempted as I am to turn your tone and language back on you;

There are no 'remain subsonic' rules on the battlefield, only in "civy street".

I restate; over trans sonic, you cannot hear them coming. It's also physics.

There are no altitude rules either.

Identifying an approaching terrain following (<below the horizon = no silhouette), unlit, supersonic aircraft is difficult by day and nigh impossible at night (which the whole point tactically)

I apologize in advance for knowing this.

34point5, what you have stated is mostly fact and I'm not arguing that whatsoever, except the point about "There are no 'remain subsonic' rules on the battlefield, only in "civy street". That is not absolute. So how do you account for the Fairchild-Republic A-10A Thunderbolt II (aka, the "Warthog")? It is certainly subsonic and rules the battlefield......it dealt a crushing blow to the Iraqi armor (mainly Soviet built tanks and other mechanized vehicles) during Desert Storm/Sabre. Over 900 Iraqi tanks were destroyed, mainly by the A-10A, and I'm not even factoring in other vehicles, hard or soft targets, including arty etc. let alone counting bunker sites and Iraqi airfields.

Yes, there are "altitude rules" that DO apply to any aircraft: the "Hard Deck", ie Zero AGL (not a pilot's preferred place to be because he'll end up dead meat), all the way up to the aircraft's Operational Ceiling, which can vary from one aircraft to another, all as part of the aircraft's "Design Performance Envelope". Please clarify your statement in this regard as it makes no sense whatsoever.

True about terrain following aircraft, most of the time you'll not see nor hear them coming, but you'll see and hear them going, only if your not the intended target and are stone cold dead hamburger! Terrain following was pioneered by the USAF's General Dynamics F-111A Aardvark, introduced into service in the mid-1960's and featured a radar altimeter coupled with an onboard computer to produce a hands-off terrain following platform. I've even witnessed SAC's FB-111A strategic bombers operating out of the former SAC base at Plattsburg AFB during the 1970's and 1980's practicing their terrain following training over the Adirondack High Peaks.....and I DID see them coming up from the valley below as they approached us all while sitting atop the summit of Giant Mtn. eating lunch with my fiancee, then flew directly over us at roughly 250 feet AGL, all the while supersonic. I still have partial hearing loss in my left ear due to this. I've even seen them fly under the Bachelorville Bridge spans on the Great Sacandaga Lake in upstate NY while early morning fishing with my uncle, cousin and brother.....saw them coming then as well! The maind jist of this is iff you know what to look for, and the US Army trains you well to do this, you can spot a terrain following mil aircraft approaching you...it eventually has to break out of it's "terrain masking mode" in order to pop-up to a sufficient altitude to deliver its weapons. Yes, I'm fully knowledgeable what their capabilities were back then before they were converted the FB-111A SACVARK to the F-111G variant in the mid-90's (SAC's Plattsburg AFB and Pease AFB having been closed due to US base re-alignments), with some sold to the Aussies to augment their aging F-111C Aardvarks. Today, this tactical parameter of terrain following is most commonplace amongst air forces all around the world, as it's basically the only way for an attacking aircraft to penetrate and survive a hostile battlefield where the enemy has radar directed AAA, SAM's and lots and lots of relatively cheap disposable man-portable SAM's. Also, terrain following aircraft flying supersonic, or near so, have the element of surprise. No argument there from me, as I've seen it employed in both in daylight and at night on a modern battlefield. I've witnessed first hand during combat ops, at night and otherwise, what a F-111 Aardvark, a RAF GR.1 Tornado, a RAF Jaguar, F-16C and F-15E can do terrain following and strike their targets with a POK of less than 50 Meters, all while flying on the deck going supersonic. Hell, I even called-in most of those CAS missions.

But I ask, what does all of what you have posted have to do with my (and my unit's and other USA unit's) UFO sighting of Feb. 22, 1991 in the Saudi Desert? Let's not forget that staff from the Central Command's US Army's Intelligence branch, as well as presence of several CIA field operators, were all keenly interested in what we all witnessed during a very thorough debrief that lasted for hours, and then confiscated our film and video evidence. Do you really think they'd go to such lengths to debrief us regarding an aircraft sighting, then force us individually to sign non-disclosure paper work? I don't think so. I do know that they wouldn't couldn't be bothered about an aircraft sighting, even if it was Iraqi!

NADDA! As I have previously stated it wasn't an aircraft, especially a military aircraft. They just don't hover motionless and silently over the ground for a few minutes let alone for 25 minutes, all they while exhibiting nebulous/plasma-like phenomenon that are multi-colored, and then shoot straight up vertically into the atmosphere disappearing within less than a few seconds at an unimaginable speed (estimated at over MACH 1) and create not a hint of a sonic boom? Come on now, I know of no military or Civie aircraft that is even capable of those aerial feats.....no earth made aircraft is even capable of that, not even the famed RAF/RN/USMC Harrier or the new F-35, or for that matter the famed Bell Aircraft manned-Jet Pack of the 60's!

I too apologize for knowing this advance, and much more to boot! Just try to stop BSing me, which is your usual MO. As theage old adage goes: "You can fool most of the people most of the time......

In reading your posts it is obvious you a very qualified in IFO's. You seem to know a lot of detail on military craft. Do have any speculation as to what the next gen military aircraft is? Besides the known ones. Like the Aurora or something like that? Bob Lazar has spoken openly of his time at S-4 (area 51) and has some interesting stories.

BTW with regards to the Naples, Florida videos of the orange lights, I still don't think the video was hoaxed but will speculate that the lights could be hoaxed with super-bright LEDs and a ballon or something like that.

Lightasmass, I thank you for your statement and support. I do take great pride in my studies and knowledge of Mil A/C.

I think that the "Aurora" is quite real and most likely propelled by some sort of "pulse" jet hybrid, possibly some sort of scram-jet. To date there is a couple of photographs depicting a "knotted" type contrail. There have also been witnessed tremendous sonic booms, particularly occurring over CA, NV (and yes, near Area 51), NM and AZ. There is even photographic evidence found on a US weather satellite pic of the entire CONUS which depict these strange contrails emanating in the vicinity of Area 51 and stretching easterly across the country and over the western Atlantic Ocean (within the satellite's coverage).

The Aurora observations were made just before the USAF decommissioned the SR-71 Blackbird back in the mid-1990's. It is my opinion that "Aurora" has most likely replaced the aging Blackbirds for Strategic ELINT and other Recon. Some say that it's maximum sustained speed is in excess of MACH 7.5. Today I think that is technically feasible as all one has to do is look at the scram jet technology and testing as developed recently by the USAF and NASA. Then there's the ultra secret X-34 A/C that the USAF recently sent aloft and recovered! God knows what it even looks like, let alone know what it's true capabilities are. Probably be classified for no less than 100 years, eh?! Another black ops budget we'll never fully learn about, unlike the F-117A Nighthawk (AKA Stealth Fighter) and the 50 year old SR-71's, A-11's and A-12's.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that NASA still operates a sole previously mothballed SR-71 Blackbird to conduct high atmospheric research....but it's unclassified max speed is somewhere slightly above Mach 3 or slightly more than the former Soviet Union's MIG-25 Foxbat and it's offspring the MIG-31 Foxhound (I've actually have seen a MIG-31 that the Iraqi's had intentionally buried in the sand to protect their air assets....at the Iraqi Talill Air Base that we over ran that is located some 20 kilometers southwest of the city of An Nasiriyah, Iraq. One very kewl and very fast A/C! the rest of the airbase and aircraft was utterly destroyed during the Desert Storm Air Campaign. In fact, my unit discovered one of the downed RAF Tornado's that had disappeared on the first day of the war and located several klicks away from the air field, out in the middle of the desert. I figured it must have been tasked to hit the Tallil AB, but got nailed by several "Golden BB's" during their low level supersonic weapons attack on the runway. the a/c's runway denial pos was definitely empty, so it seems that had at least dispensed the JP-233 Anti-Runway bomblets. Unfortunately both the pilot and the WSO were KIA and still inside the wreckage. The damn Iraqi's never bothered to give them a decent military burial, which made my stomach turn and blood boil, and yet they made damn sure that they stripped the aircraft of it's avionics packages, particularly the ECM boxes and pods. I have no lover lost for the Camel Jockeys after that!

If you have any further questions regarding Mil A/C, just fire away and I'll do my best to answer your question(s), okay? And no, I don't own a single copy of Jane's All the World's Military Aircraft.......all the info I possess re Mil A/C lies within my gray matter that took a lifetime to accummulate and disseminate.

A comment on the pulse jet technology:The Germans used pulse combustion on their V2 rockets,and were called "Buzz bombers" because of the noise they made.

They had a flap that was closed by air pressure, and opened by residual combustion pressure.This allowed fresh air to enter,fuel was injected,then ignited.

The system was very primitive compared today's I am sure, but the technology has been used in very efficient gas heat systems also.

The future propulsion systems will probably use EHD drive for unimaginable speeds,where the ionized air created in front is used to propel the plane forward.A magnetic field will shield the plane from the ionized super hot air surrounding it.

This will create a visible trail like a meteor as they pass by.

Perhaps some of the UFO's are experimental craft of other designs?

Maybe the government already has technology like this in use.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4269027

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the German's V-1 was propelled by a "pulse jet" engine with a top speed in the vicinity of around 400 MPH. It was mainly launched from inclined steam activated launch rails from France, Holland and Belgium. Usually, RAF Typhoons and the Brit's first jet powered operational fighter, the Gloster Meteor, were able to catch up to the Buzz Bombs and tip the bomb's wing up or down, hence upsetting the gyroscope and sending the weapon into the sea or ground below. It was not good practice to follow one of these and try to shoot it up with machine guns or cannon because they'd blow up in your face and the pilot who had shot it down would usually fly into the resulting maelstrom and downing himself in the process.....not good for one's well being, literally!

The Germain V-2 rocket had a liquid-based propellant and featured a typical rocket nozzle, and was launched vertically from a hardstand launch facility. It had a much greater range than the V-1 Buzz Bomb and much improved targeting accuracy, and many were launched from western Germany with population and manufacturing centers in the southeastern UK, Manchester, and London being the primary targets. It was designed by Walter Von Braun and supersonic. A number of them were captured at the end of WWII by the US Army, the Brits and the Soviet Red Army. I do know that the ones captured by the USA were transported to the White Sands Missile Testing Range in NM. Also, capture German rocket scientists were also transported to that facility under "Operation Paper Clip" to aid US scientists conducting missile tests. A great number of these German scientists later worked for NASA (and it's predecessor under the Eisenhower Administration), including the famed Von Braun.

Okay, that's the end of today's history lesson kiddies! LOL

"So how do you account for the Fairchild-Republic A-10A Thunderbolt II (aka, the "Warthog")? It is certainly subsonic and rules the battlefield"

About the same as 'accounting' for a C-130 in a transonic/supersonic context? Or maybe a Jeep?

What has any of spurious face saving got to do with discussing the pictures in that other post?

"Just try to stop BSing" You mean like deliberate misinterpretation, bent semantics and writing page after page about myself, that have zero relevance to UFO or IFO?

Dead wrong, very dead wrong Mr 34point5.

You have stated that the supersonic aircraft rules the battlefield. This obviously is an obvious attack on my statements (however veiled), and I merely pointed out the fact of the error of your ways by bringing forth evidence to the contrary, as in the operational history of the A-10A Warthog. Checkmate bud. Your dialectic hasn't changed my mind one iota in my believe of what I have witnessed. Nope, not even a smidgen dear chap.

And typically you BS your way through any discussion, hence I'm not even going to respond to any further postings made by you, so don't bother to respond to this posting. You just are not worth the effort and time because you're the typical A-type, as in ANAL, that no matter what you will argue that you're always correct regardless of the facts presented to you.

And in regards to my postings herein I was mainly responding to other's postings and depicting my experience in sorts of manners. Those postings did not concern you. If you don't like it just shut TFU, and do us all a big favor and mind you own freaking business.....as in don't post where it doesn't concern you. Oh, I can just imagine your response to this, and it'll be typical 34point5 megalomania at it's finest. And another thing, get you fat head unstuck out of your arse. And yes, that's a verbal assault on your brain cells, whatever little there is dweeb. You may write a mean posting relying on good King's English, grammar et all, but it's usually (or should I state rarely?) not substantiated with facts , facts, and more facts. I just love how the language is twisted around and usually a veiled dis at the intended target, and I'm not the sole receiver. I'm sure a whole host of CR4 Forum member will probably agree with me on this. They'll probably also agree with my assessment that you're just a simple Web Troll: Your postings surely demonstrate that you are. All one has to do is review your postings history to see this....end story, period.

This is the end of my posting within this blog, as I have much better things to do tonight, like getting some actual engineering work done. An open discussion with all had been enjoyable up until the time that you just couldn't help yourself and launch into yet another diatribe. Good day Sir.

"You have stated that the supersonic aircraft rules the battlefield"

Where?

Nor have I said anything about you seeing what you saw.

Another rant attack built on BS imaginings.

"You have stated that the supersonic aircraft rules the battlefield"

Well, you didn't, but I am going to say it, when comparing with propeller fighters!

In my memory about the end of the WW2, is the fact that Messerschmidt 262 were superior to any fighter planes that they were engaging.

That is very informative and typically conveyed by a a-a oh rats I dropped the butter and basting brush...thanks I enjoyed it.

By the way one late afternoon in October of 1975 I was meeting with friends at Wildwood, CA at a small recreation area on rim of the Conejo Canyon. The park was at about half capacity and as we; about ten of us were chatting there was a murmur an we all turned to see a large football shaped object rising out of the canyon very close to the rim and about 130'-150' from us. It was broadside to us and though there were no visible lights it seem to have opennings squares; maybe windows?? and several tiers of these opennings down the side. Though it were football shaped there was a top or larger area on top opposed to a somewhat slightly flatter bottom side. A protrusion on the very top had a larger opening and something visible within with a human form but maybe a shadow who knows. This object was about 200' in height by about 400' or so football-ish shaped. It just rose out of the canyon making no discernable sound and everyone in the park was silent, it seemed not frightening at all in fact many of the children began laughing and running in circles. Then it slowly at first began to move away a little to about an eighth mile distance and then in the blink of an eye it moved to the bottom of the adjacent foothills about 30 miles away then up and gone. Remarkable yes though we all occasionally speak of it I don't think it was ever officially announced or squashed likely considering the location.

I am telling this to you but of course its open to many and I can count on one hand how many times this has crossed my lips other than to one of those whom were there at the time.

I do think UFO's exist but I don't believe aliens are contained within them.

Pictures? That's just 4 different zooms of the same picture.

Pretty typical UFOlogy, though....

You didn't look very closely. Above the picture is a "next", "previous", etc. buttons to scroll through the catalog. The example above was #6 of 284. Here's #270 of 284.

Oooh, that was convincing. It looks like someone was playing Frisbee with a flat hat. (Admittedly about 30 years ahead of time....)

I don't think that any one picture or video has been very convincing. But the total aggregate of videos and pictures makes the phenomenon, at the very least, interesting. Either A) there is some strange objects being flown in our atmosphere or B) there is some sort of mass psychosis where the total witnesses to these event are hallucinating or lying or C) there is some sort of massive, worldwide hoax being perpetrated. Any of the options above make this phenomenon interesting to me.

I think you are quite right on the aspect of an interesting psychological or sociological phenomenon. There are plenty of hoaxers around, but I don't think that is the dominant theme. Nor hallucinations, either, though there would be some. I think the problem is more along the lines of trying to fill in weak information with preconceived, magical, or conspiratorial thinking, and willingness to go along with various peer pressures.

I wouldn't claim to be immune to this myself, but at least I try to look around and avoid it. "True believers" seem not to do this; they just jump onto various bandwagon fads according to whatever mythos may be popular.

Look at the original video. Instead of being an open inquiry, it is an "all rights reserved" production (and highly produced at that), with a nice buzzword cameo by Dwight Eisenhower, for instance. The whole thing is built to "push buttons" and a view, rather than to engage in honest investigation. How anyone would be fooled by this I can scarcely imagine rationally, but it is easy to comprehend superstitionally.

I scarcely know one plane from another, so all I have to do is drive by an airport, and see a bunch of flying objects I can't identify--hence UFOs. But I haven't yet seen anything extraterrestrial other than some stars, planets, and moons.

I once saw an object that my companions and I guessed was a plane on fire about 10 miles away from Yakima, WA. It turned out to be a bolide in the neighborhood of Yellowstone Park. Distance estimates can be deceptive.

Stephen Greer has been around for awhile. I remember that this collection of testimonies where presented in a congressional hearing at some point. It appears that there is enough eye witness testimony to give a preponderance of truth. I have heard a few of these guys interviewed outside of Stephen Greer's work and the stories are no less interesting. Not saying there are EBE's flying craft in Earth's atmosphere, but there is something going on outside of the publicly known aircraft. There have been quite a few cell phone videos of curious lights moving about, and the "lights over Phoenix" was widely witnesses and videoed. The cell phone link above I found very interesting... watch the "craft" disappear.

I can't believe we are the only life in the universe, or even galaxy. The math says that would be next to impossible. The math seems to support other intelligent life too but some experts are adding a few new variables to that equation that lower the odds. It is being found that the universe is a very dangerous place to grow up and the possibility of civilization destroying events is much higher than first thought. I believe there is other intelligence life out there. To me, intelligence is linked with curiosity so they are probably explorers like us. Are they visiting us? That is anybodies guess. Why have they not communicated with us? Why would they try? The entomologist who studies ant colonies does not try to talk to them and for aliens to travel here they would be that far advanced that the analogy fits.

Furthermore to try and explain their crafts and abilities in terms of our knowledge of physics evokes A.C.Clarke's famous quote; "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

If you read some of the stuff that's coming from physicists these days, multiverses, multiple dimensions beyond ours, folding of space-time, wormholes, etc., hell, these things could be coming from trillions of light years away or even blipping in and out from another dimension. These aren't new concepts, but the people that work in this stuff are coming up with evidence to support some of these wild theories. Who knows?

I'd be disappointed to find out that we are the only intelligent life in this universe or the many universe that may exist. I could see us as ants being studied..........fire ants, that lash out and bite at the slightest provocation.

Well I have bad cold and im staying indoors ,So I viewed the full " Feature", Future generations will have a good laugh when they dig out this video,thats for sure !!!.

Best way to describe my reaction is " Can I have my 2 hours back" Its like a Skip White E Bay advertisment LOL.

With some creative editing and out of context interviewing its possible to" make believe", Various religions have been doing this for thousands of years,

I do think other life on other planets is a strong possibility ,and a creator of some form ,Even an afterlife is possible,Will Aliens end up in this afterlife as well ??

Just for the record I dont believe flying saucers are visiting, Happy new year .

WOW! , Who would have though that so many people would get involved in this discussion, some posters many times posting, and all the links have had me reading/viewing now for more than a week.So far nothing satisfys my craving for credible answers, some facinating reading though,and the You Tube Videos add some excitement or disappointment depending on your stance in this debate.

I have a theory , on UFO s ,that is a bit off the wall and not entirely original, Sometime in the future (or even the very distant past)very distant past, humans figured how to travel in time and the flying saucers ETC. are made and flown by these humans, and now for the most important part of my theory,some of these " time travellers" using new to them Technology " got lost in the" Wormhole" a description I like so im using it here, Then more time travellers went to attempt to find them and thet also had difficulty in returning to their original time place, So these lost travellers are in and out of different times in centuries and locations,But they are only missing from their own timeframe a few days months or even years.This theory accounts for the various different styles of UFO s IE cigar shape Saucer shape Delta ETC. ETC.Also would explain how they had enough energy+ food and liquids to last on their extended journeys.Best stop now before the other posters think im a little lost myself.

I wasn't trying to set off such a storm! But since we're here, I thought this was interesting...................hey, at least it's short!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-mWaJ3AgZs&feature=related

Yeah, there is a science fiction movie based on that premiss.

So the cave drawings that are very similar to depictions presented in recent times don't the least cause one to question the possibilities. UFO's as they are now refered to didn't have any stigma until the gov steped in and claim lunancy of anyone believing their existence. I've seen many things that can not be explained and so the conclusion I make is that somethings can not be explained. Some of these sightings I have written of on this forum. Credibility is an interesting anomaly in reference to the OP's topic

Google "ufo casebook", seems to be a well managed site.

I've spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours on these documentaries, and what not, and I verify higher probability truths, by cross referencing.

If you trust CNN then these guys really are ex-military

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKVA_jCiMz0

Here's another interesting video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmlYe2KS0-Y

Maybe I'm just naive. I've known career military people, (not any astronauts), but the people I've known, are not interested in either the limelight, or making jackasses of themselves.

So, I guess my next question would be........what is motivating these people to get on camera and tell lies?

Can we honestly tell ourselves that governments haven't conspired to dupe the populace?

I question your terminology. I don't think anyone is calling these guys "liars." For one thing, they might conceivably be right; and for another, they might be sincerely mistaken. I suspect the latter, but I don't know. Except for some vague archetypal/psychological themes, the totality of reports is unsystematic, if not all over the map.

YOU FUNNY!

My Dad was an engineer.......before computers..........anything that couldn't be determined from his slide rule, was nonsense.

I could understand infinity..................on a piece of paper.

I asked my Dad to explain infinity in a physical context.........it just pissed him off.

If I point my finger to space, where does it end I say.........he had no answer.

It just does......................Why?

What's on the other side of the end?