Increasing Speed Gearboxes

This sounds like total baloney, devoid of even the most basic physics knowledge.

You have a patent on this? Well, congratulations. I've earned a few patents myself and I know it's a lot of work. I've never figured out how to patent a device that produces an infinite force, though.

Can you provide a link to the patent office that issued it, and the patent number? I'm sure all of us brain boxes here on CR4 are eager to look it up.

This reminds me of a story I heard about the American actor Chuck Norris, and how he does such amazing feats. This particular one is: Chuck Norris counted to infinity...twice.

You wrote, "Unfortunately I am unable to get an increased speed gearbox to handle this power without snapping the rotar shaft."

Are you kidding? What are you trying to do, reach light speed?

Have you considered patenting the warp drive or has someone already cornered that one?

My suggestion... take a physics 101 course.

"I have patented a device that increases the force of the wind unto infinity"

I am working on a device that will take you to" infinity and beyond".

Get real, Joe. Cause now, you're in lala land.

Nice quote you got there lyn " infinity and beyond" toy story

Finally we have the ultimate solution.

How to crack a sledge hammer with a nut.

Fortunately, it seems he is sufficently undercapitalised that he cannot harm others.

Sorry for being so scheptical Joe, but there are some fundamental principals that need to be understood. If you're after a box to convert 6.5rpm to 20,000 rpm, it's a little like tyring to turn a worm drive from the oputput shaft. The mechanical advantage is completely against you.

It might be viable to just run an electric generator and use that power for a motor on your output shaft. I've never seen a workable "box" with anywhere near the step up in speed that you desire.

In a half hearted attempt at taking this seriously a massive piston type hydraulic pump can work at very low speeds well below 5 RPM if its big enough.

Use the high pressure fluid output from that to drive a high speed hydraulic motor and you have an unbreakable ridiculously high step up ratio speed changer with very high mechanical working efficiency as well.

You are actually designing a perpetual machine. Have you been smoking crap these days?

The prerequisite of a 'letters patent' is 'novelty'.

Nothing else.

BAhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

U got some!

This is Joe, the man with an abundancy of free energy. Firstly I will tell you that I have another two months before the world search is concluded. I have no doubts that this will not be contested because of it's simplicity.I knew all you naysayers would be throwing the book at my device,it is against all your teachings, so why would you believe such a power exists.I truly enjoyed your comments and would like you all to stay tuned to CR4 so that when I am granted patent I will make you all members of La La land.I will show you one of the basic laws of physics that will crack a sledge hammer with a nut.You engineers have never encountered a force on this earth as great as this one,so you have never had the need to develop a machine that can deal with it. Just to wet your appetite I will tell you that I have made just three of these devices at 1/10 of the full size, I coupled them together and with a wind speed of 5mph they freely turned a radicon worm gear in reverse with a ratio of 1:100.So now imagine if say 100 of full size ones was connected together. I can here an apology coming my way so don't get too cocky. I will show you what "Novelty" is all about when all the wind turbine investors are demanding their money back. In the mean time get to work and make me a real gear box with some meat on it instead of the childrens toy one's that you are making.Love Joe

Oh Joe! you are so masterful!

So how many whorespowers or talks wood you be requiring?

You should talk to this guy. Centrifugal Blower Design. He's going to build a 4,000,000+ cfm blower that runs on a 40 HP motor. Together, you can conquer the world.

This is funny as hell! Hahaha

" Just to wet your appetite I will tell you that I have made just three of these devices at 1/10 of the full size, I coupled them together and with a wind speed of 5mph they freely turned a radicon worm gear in reverse with a ratio of 1:100"

What do you mean you couplet the input at the wheel and turned the worm ?

Did the wheel have still some tooth after the first turn ?

A 1:100 worm gear is self-locking and cannot be turned in reverse without destruction. I would suggest you propose your invention to M. Kraspolsky an other "genius" may be together you will save the world. He had same attitude as you and promised to show us-pour limited guys- how marvellous his invention is. Xe expect yours and hope you will get the patent but to your information a patent is NOT a guaranty that it will work. It is only a protection for an idea no matter how intelligent or stupid it is. A gear box with a 3000:1 ratio can be done but it is not as you imagine it.

Hi Nick name, Thanks for your comment. I have just checked the radicon box and find that it is approx 70:1 it rotates easily and does not break the shaft. If I coupled this to another box of the same size I could achieve 4,900 rpm and so on, less of course all your losses that you engineers go on about. It does not strip any teeth off simply because the energy is subdued before it grabs hold of the drive shaft.

Fantastic ! But you did not answer my question: do you turn the wheel in a 1:70 worm gear and the shaft (worm) is rotating ? Or do you turn the worm right and left only ?

I highly appreciate you knowledge of mechanical design you should write it and give us the secret how the energy is subdued before it grabs hold of the drive shaft. You cannot imagine how many people would be happy to have such a solution imagine in stead of heavy shafts only a wire. Great, very great, very very great.

I congratulate you far the new discoveries in machine behaviour. You deserve an academic title and I would support your nomination at a college as MIT or Stanford or any other of same renown.

Why do you not postulate at NASA most probably the future space travel will be soved by you.

Cheese, what a dolt!

I forgot to ask you since nobody offers you the right solution how much are you willing to pay for such a gear box? Or do you expect to get it for free as a sign of respect and appreciation ?

Nick Name, You are right. After thinking about it. Why should I pay for the gear box. You people/ doubters should be beating a path to my door. You are extracting the urine now but watch this space. Can you give me the Email address for the the man with the 4,000,000 cfm compressor as I have just the force that is capable of driving it.Love Joe.

Joe,

Just click on this link Centrifugal Blower Design

It's a match made in heaven.

I'll expect $5,000,000.00USD finders fee.

Lyn thanks chuck, No bother with the fee,the world are waiting to pounce on this team. I have been out in the wind for a walk and have not contacted cfm man yet. I will let you know where we are going from here. Great oaks from little acorns grow. Love Joe.

"I have been out in the wind for a walk..."

Oh, no. ¡No Mas!

Joe,

You're new here. You may have been on "blue sky" forums where people declare they have invented perpetual motion, or cars that run on water, but here we like just a trace of believability with our ration of BS.

"Great oaks from little acorns grow". Love Joe. "I have patented a device".

Joe, what's the number of that patent? I'd dearly love to read it. I'd like to see who the examiner was.

Please feel free to offer any real proof you may have, along with that patent number.

Joe, you just keep right on dreaming those dreams.

Cheers

Lyn, It's dreamer Joe again, I really have to go now .I will contact you tomorrow. Joe

Sorry Joe,

What you have "invented" is not "the most powerful force known to man". It's the most powerful force know to Joe.

Not sure you can patent wind, although you seem to have found a way to multiply your sense of self worth with it.

Since you are still mildly amusing, I'll stick around for awhile.

It's me again Lyn, thanks for your comments. I have not patented the wind. I have patented a way of making every square inch of it being made a thousand times more powerful.Is it any wonder that my self worth has multiplied? I have done this without a motor or any other form of driving force. I notice all the other naysayers have quietened down.It seems that this problem has beat them. You did not comment on the large ring gear method. May I ask you what you think of such a proposal, without being rude please Lyn. Joe

"I notice all the other naysayers have quietened down.It seems that this problem has beat them."

Joe, most of the regularly scheduled naysayers have not chimed in. I believe that when you provide your patent information, as lyn asked, a lot of members will begin to take you seriously... well, at least some will have a look.

Come on, Joe. Throw us a bone. Buzz phrases, rhetoric, blue sky claims... that is all we have.

Hi Doorman, No bones ,no buzz words.James Newcoming made that mistake and James Watt took the Glory. You will all have to wait for the UK patent office to grant me a patent.I have been waiting three months now and it is heartbreaking watching people pouring money into projects that on most days are not capable of powering a hair drier. It really is a shame that people still think anyone with an unusual idea that does not conform to the physics books is a total nut case. One of the UK's largest innovation Universities has shown an interest in this device but needless to say our Government cannot grasp the idea that if people work and produce a saleable product then a country will prosper. Instead they continue to cut this and that hoping that we will become solvent once more. With a bit of luck one of them may spare the time to read CR4 and the rest will be history. Once I show the world this idea, everyone will kick themselves for not thinking of it themselves. A six year old child could work it out. A lot of wind as got to be wasted before this revolution hits the market place. Love Joe.

Sooooo

You DON'T have a patent. Why is this being revealed now?

And you are not going to tell us anything useful, are you. This is hornblowing.

See you guys. Have fun.

"With a bit of luck one of them may spare the time to read CR4 and the rest will be history."

How could any rational person arrive at any conclusion other than the fact that you are delusional? You offer not even the slightest shred of proof that you are anything other than a snake oil salesman.

Good luck, Joe. Hey, Doorman, wait for me!

Hi Lyn, I would feel exactly like you do . I accept the "Snake oil salesman"title but with respect you are judging me and my patent application on it's validity. You are annoyed that you cannot fathom out what and where this force originates from. You are annoyed that I can collect a gentle breeze,bottle it up and a tornado is produced without any form of man made engine. Surely Lyn, you have to give me a little praise for this.It seems that you have threw the towel in on this site. I would dearly love to tell you and show you the pictures of the wind farm in action at just 1/10 of scale. The power is awesome as you people say. Just chill out and wait till I can talk about it.All you have to remember is that I am not telling lies and if you are thinking about investing in one or two of those clapped out wind turbines, then just hold your horses,I am not as delusional as one thinks.Love Joe.

I think you win this week's award for the most offensively stupid nonsense. I predict nothing will ever come of this.

Tornado, This would be a good name for me. You are getting annoyed now.If you would like a wager on me being successful with this project then feel free to lay your bet. I will have at least one of these devices on every farm on the planet within ten years.This may be a slight exaggeration, but it will succeed, without a doubt. I may have to settle for baby gearboxes and generators for a while but I will soon employ some of the top engineers to give justice to my "Offensive stupid nonsense"... I simply asked you engineers for your help, you should not be concerned where this super power is coming from or if it is a load of ballonny. In due course all will be revealed and you "Doubters" are going to feel so silly. I still love you all. Joe.

It's a good engineer's job to question and doubt everything.

When the sun sets I think you are going to find that you are bound by the same laws of thermodynamics as the rest of us.

That means, you can't harness more power than the wind emits. When you run the numbers you will see exactly the number of ergs you have per unit area of sky for a given wind velocity.

Any device will only be able to capture a portion of that total energy and every device will run at an efficiency of something less than 100%. The rest of that energy is dissipated into sound, heat and possibly electromagnetic radiation. That's all you get.

If you want any credibility here you must pony up the numbers. Otherwise you are subject to endless ridicule, which may be your goal anyway.

Lastly, if you really are getting a patent, then what you need is to formally hire engineers (either paid wages or willing to share in the portion of profits) and sign non-disclosure acts. That would also mean you should have an attorney.

Which, any attorney worth their salt would tell you to stop writing in public blogs.

However, the way you have presented yourself and your idea tastes more like hot air blowing in the wind than someone intelligent with a valid idea. No wonder why everyone is giving you a hard time.

Hi Anonymous Hero, Of course you engineers are questioning and doubting everything I say.And of course I cannot harness more power than the wind emits. This is what you engineers have been taught to think such rubbish.You have not yet grasped the power of multiplication which makes your laws of thermodynamics look a little foolish. What you do not understand my little Hero is that I do not give a damn how many ergs I have, they mean nothing when I have such a driving force waiting in the wings to eject them and get on with driving the generator. Kindly stop thinking about the laws of physics, it is a load of balony.. It does not matter if the rest of the energy is dissipated into la la land, I am only concerned with the massive amount of energy that I will capture from God's wind.Just be glad that we will not have to pay for it, Love Joe.

If you want to bring God into the picture, just remember that the laws of physics are God's Laws . How dare you ignore them, and tell us to forget about them? That would be theologically as well as scientifically stupid. And then even He won't help you with this crazy project.

Over Unity Hobbits are The Spawn of The Devil

They can be recognised by such utterances as; "Kindly stop thinking about the laws of physics, it is a load of balony"

[did you mean balony or baloney?]

You can also holler "Baloney" about the physics of gravity all you want, but step off that cliff and gravity will teach you a very hard lesson while you are playing the part of Wiley Coyote.

Actually, I think you are a good bit wiser than Wiley, but your greatest accomplishments in life appear to be simply throwing bait into forums to see how much anguish you can stir up.

The sad thing is a lot of good people stooped down to your level to try to give you a hand up. Instead, you simply grabbed on and tried to drag every one down to your level.

Anon, you are being a bit harsh on me. It is you people that I am defending myself against. I know that I am telling the truth and only Tcmtech has publicly acknowledged that I have got "patent applied for" and a world search in the pipeline.Your bit about falling off the cliff is relevant to my patent, the further one falls the faster one travels. I assume like mine the laws of multiplication enter this equation. Anon, as far as me throwing bait into the forum and stirring you up a little. Don't you think people will react with more vigour by me doing this and they will stretch their imagination so that we all learn something from it? Please don't be sad. Feel free to call me what you like as long as you know that you will not get a drink when I am a billionaire.Love Joe.

"Your bit about falling off the cliff is relevant to my patent, the further one falls the faster one travels."

The energy of impact will be less than the energy expended to get to the top of the cliff. Always. Period. That is the way it works.

I am surprised you have not come up with the idea to use some of this multiplied energy to power a big fan that will spin the turbine faster, thus multiplying further.

Hi Doorman, Like I have said before I am not worried how much power is lost when there is such a vast surplus of energy that needs to be harnessed. I told you this device defies all the normal laws of physics.Having a big fan only complicates things I just need the best and easiest way of putting this power through a gigantic gearbox/turbine.Why make life difficult if one dosn't need to. Anyway I am sure you engineers would rip the idea to ribbons, imagine the efficiency losses in a massive fan. Thanks for the suggestion but I will let God's wind do the blowing, it costs nothing that way.Love Joe.

I have serious doubt you beat them with anything. In reality people who don't produce tangible evidence but just a bunch of cryptic words and vague and meaningless terminology tend to get ignored fairly quickly just like over imaginative children often get done to them.

For what its worth I have suspicions that you have created some sort of giant impact gun type mechanism that stores up a small amount of energy until a specific speed is reached and then releases it all at once in a massive high torque burst. no mystery physics or over unity there just lots of stored energy being released in a useless short burst that is counter productive to generating electricity.

Also I have my suspicions that you are possibly Kastrupsky as well being your wording and sentence structure are uncannily similar. Plus the consistent inability to produce a single creditable shred of evidence to back up your claims is also suspiciously similar too.

Tcmtech,thanks for your comment, you really do not believe a word I am saying. If you boil down the "Bunch of cryptic words and meaningless terminology that I am allegedly spouting you will come to the conclusion that once I prove this technology to all you engineers you still will not be able to give me a way forward to use this device to it's full potential. The over imaginative thoughts that you say I have, have already been proven. irrespective of the laws of physics.The problem lies with the existing toy gearboxes that cannot stand up to the job required of them.You are the one with the over imaginative thoughts with your "giant impact gun",it would be good for scaring the birds but useless for providing one of your states with electricity.I take it that Kastrupsky is another genious seeing as we are so alike. Does he know where I can purchase a real gear box that has a backbone in it? Perhaps you would be kind enough to give me his contact address,he may be just the man I need. Love Joe.

Joe,

You cannot rely on mere mortals to help you harness the most powerful device ever known to man. Or, up to this point known only to Joe and the patent examiner.

I suggest that you put your otherworldly mental facilities to work solving this power transmission dilemma yourself. If you're going to save the world, get on with it.

Maybe someday, I can tell my grandchildren that I sparred with Joe The Great, savior of the world.

So what are you needing to spin at 20,000 RPM any way? Small automotive alternators can handle that speed but few other generator devices can.

Politely put we need more information as to what the input power source is producing by means of a simple torque number and RPM number and what the generator is and what its putting out power wise.

I will play nice if you do which means real answer's to the real questions even if they sound very basic and obvious to you.

Hi Tcmtech, Like I said I have only invented the most powerful force known to man. I am seeking your help to use this energy and to tell me what method of storing this energy is best.I have only stated 20,000rpm for the turbine speed simply because there is no limit to the power that is needed to achieve this.Does any one know if I couple a series of small radicon type gearboxes with say a 1:70 ratio would it be possible to overcome this torque problem of snapping the shafts? I can control the input torque precisely for the gearbox drive, but need to have the most powerful gearbox/generator/alternator that is possible to be manufactured. Remember, this is a vast amount of energy that needs to do useful work. If I can explain further. Imagine you have two men in a tug of war, now imagine one million men pulling against the one man. Do you see the problem that faces me,all this energy and nothing capable of it driving on a vast scale.I have looked at using a large ring gear with a small cog on the alternator. They have a ring gear in China that is 36feet in Dia.If I rotate this and use it as a flywheel as well I cannot spin the genny more than 500rpm which does not do my device justice, it needs to produce much more than this if I am to save the world. Love Joe.

In one of my comments I wrote that worm gears are self-locking. I am serious enough to doubt about what I say -not every body is able to do that , isn't it Joe?- so that I did what had to be done: I wrote a question to Radicon and here is the answer:

Dear Sir, we don´t believe, that it works to use a worm gear and drive it from the output side. Depending on Ratio and design, it can be possible but the gearbox efficiency is so bad, that it makes no sense. The key question is, is a worm gear self locking or not. Our catalogue shows the relevant parameter what a self locking gear is or not. See attached file For a ratio of 70 : 1 we expect an angle around 3 -4 ° which is nearly self-locking The situation is different, if it is a worm gear with a helical gear step in front. This type has a much higher efficiency and is not self locking Best regards, Mit freundlichen Grüßen Andreas Bock Customer Service Teamleader

Now you know what you can do with your in series connected Radicon worm gears. Of course your available power being "infinite" even a bad efficiency will still let some output! To explain you the last comment, if a gear is in front the 70:1 is NOT only at the worm level but part of it can be taken care by the gear so that the worm stage has a lower ration (for instance if the gear stage has a ratio of 3 the worm stage has only 23 ), the angle is higher and the self-locking effect is less present. According to the Radicon catalogue at above mentioned angle (3-4°) the drive is statically IRREVERSIBLE, can under vibration move, has a VERY BAD DYNAMIC REVERSIBILITY. With an angle of 12° the static reversibility is bad, it gets loss under vibrations and is dynamically reversible.

Unless you will consider that the manufacturer knows about his product less than you do the solution can be a fiasco as others too.

What you do not want to understand is that all of us are NOT against you, in fact we pity you since you run in the wall due to your very low (not to say non-existent knowledge) and are not aware of it. At least the way you present things leads to this assumption.The problem is your aggressive and arrogant behaviour when a negative comment is made: I know it better than you! From the other side although you deeply despise our knowledge you ask for help in order to be presentable at the discussions with the universities. This is a schizophrenic behaviour since you say all and the contrary.

If a University wants to build the machine then write which University it is, who is the professor in charge willing to do it and show that he really adhered to your idea and is not only wanting to make you believe it in order to get rid of your insistences.

I do not consider you as "nut" but as a person who does not have enough knowledge to understand the problems and as many other "inventors" is convinced that laws of physics are obsolete and only their cleverness was able to go over the borders accepted by all those "poor, limited and simple minded engineers who believe only in what books contain". As a consolation your are on of many who think and behave as you do, you are not an exception!

If you are really looking for a gearbox that can take whatever you toss at it take a look at the stuff they using large scale mining operations. I worked in a local coal mine back in the mid 90's as student co op worker for 9 nine month period for school credits. There where gearboxes in the coal processing and handling systems the size of large bus's that took the power from two 7500 HP motors at full tilt 24 hours a day with out problems. That one gearbox alone was handling the power equivalent to five 2 megawatt wind turbines connected together without difficulty. I think they ran some sort of giant coal crusher or something similar that worked at around 30 RPM so that means they where capable of supporting some 2.6+ million foot pounds of torque in continuous duty operation.

Relating to our doubts for most us the frustration and doubt comes from the simple fact you give us absolutely no real information on what actual torque and power you think you are dealing with so no one here can possibly advise you on what type or size of gearbox you should be using.

Attention he wants a gear box to increase RPM the design is not the same as for a gear box used to decrease reducer as the most are.

In any gearbox other than a worm gear type how do the gears know which way they are transferring the load?

For example say I have that 15000 hp gearbox running with an 1800 RPM clockwise input and a 30 RPM counterclockwise output. If I reverse that and now put a 30 RPM clockwise input going backward through it and get a 1800 RPM counterclockwise output all of the internal components are still seeing an identical levels and directions of force being applied to them as when they where working the other way as a gear reduction system.

Not that any of this matters being he thinks he needs a 20,000 RPM output for generating electricity with a 3 and some RPM input but in a large scale power system the highest RPM a full synchronous generator would run at is 3600 RPM for a 60 cycle grid tie conection.

tcmtech, Now you are talking my language,but every engineer that I talk to is rattling on about torque and snapping the drive shaft in these boxes. I am aware that 3,600 RPM would be ok to drive a generator but when I worked at a coal fired plant the genny spun at 20,000RPM and that was supplying thousands of homes, which is what I need to achieve. Otherwise there is no point in me increasing the power of the wind for such a petty amount of power that the 3,600 RPM is capable of producing. Like I said earlier I need to couple say several 1:70 gearboxes together and I have proved that these are capable of turning without snapping the shafts until I can attain this speed. The power that I am able to put in will not stall once I have balanced it so I have no problems there.Joe.

"the genny spun at 20,000RPM"

The turbine might have

I think you need to find out more on how things work.

I have some serious doubts about that claim of it running at 20,000 RPM being steam powered turbines in power plants are direct drive to the massive generators that spin at 1800 or 3600 RPM for standard 60 cycle operation. I think that more likely it was perhaps 20,000 Hp and turned a 15 megawatt generator.

If you did work in a power plant that had a 20,000 RPM turbine spinning a 1800 or 3600 RPM generator then you know where to get your gearbox!

I worked at the Coteau Properties coal mine North of Beulah North Dakota. It is the mine that supplies the Antelope valley power plant and coal gasification plant. Where did you work?

Tcmtech, Hi Ya. I worked as a welder and asked the man running this genny about it's speed and he told me it was 20,000 rpm. If you have ever stood close to them you will know that they are running at this speed. I did not see a gear box and assumed that it was running straight from the steam pressure.I cannot see how you can put steam through a gearbox but perhaps you know better than me. By the way I worked in an English power station. We do things on a smaller scale than you Dakotans that is until I show you what real power is. Love Joe.

All I can ask at this point is what was the name of the power plant you worked at so we can figure it out from there. If it was English its probably the common 50 Hz system so that would have put it at around 3000 RPM so the 20,000 number either was related to shaft horsepower or kilowatt output.

Was it a 15 megawatt generator or a 20 megawatt generator?

The big ones here at the Antelope valley station are around 440 megawatt each and they run at 3600 RPM direct drive off the turbines. I have also stood by them a number of times on a really great tour they give! http://www.basinelectric.com/Electricity/Generation/Antelope_Valley_Station/index.html

This is one of the pictures I have of the generator room. Thats one of the two steam turbine generators. I think they are roughly 20 feet in diameter and about 120 feet long. Where I am standing is roughly half way between the two generator units so you can see just how big that room is!

Speaking of torque and losses is completely relevant to your problem. Describing it as "rattling on" is insulting and offensive. This whole post exhibits a complete ignorance of engineering concepts and how they are related. Force, pressure, torque, power, and speed are all different from each other, but are interrelated by fairly simple calculations. You have furnished no calculations nor useful data anywhere in the entire thread, just idiotic verbal bluster. I think your project is 100% guaranteed to fail.

Hey! I asked that back in post 12!

_{Interesting Joe has already disclosed this to a "University" Must be the one that doesn't understand gear boxes either.}

Hi 31point 4, The University have not worked on this project yet. I am the person trying to find a way of taming this energy, so that I do not look an idiot when I meet these Boffins.They are just interested and in awe of the collosal power that they will have to deal with.They have seen it in action and are aware of it's force,they know that it is capable of producing thousands of horse power and it will give them a challenge to make use of it's strength. You engineers are thinking too small you need to accept that wind strength can be multiplied. Forget your silly books and what as gone in the past.,now is the time to move into a new era of real power. We used to burn oil lamps for light but very soon you will have the greatest energy force on God's earth. 31point4,if you know about these gear boxes then for the Lord's sake tell me.Love Joe.

Oh my God, Joe! For the Lord's sake, get some help.

Bye.

You are getting 'input' - but obviously not recognising it.

Tcmtech told you a source and has just given you a second one - but you could add ships to your research list into massive HP gearboxes.

None of these gearboxes are worm drives. Worm drives are for 'space' or 'non reversing', or 'registration' - not for 'mechanical efficiency'. E.g not even wind-up toys use worms anymore for "step-up to governor".

And no one can give you any more 'useful advice' unless you give HP and Torque NUMBERS!

But just a tip; you cannot 'magnify' momentum - so if your idea is a 'funnel' - it won't work - don't waste your money on a patent.

Hi Tcmtech, I thank you for this advice but I need the gear box to step up the speed. Surely the machines you speak of are step downers.There is no way that these shafts would snap. I am not an engineer and am only assuming that last statement is correct. I liken it to pulling away in top gear with a fifty tonne load on a truck.As you all know this is not on. However the way I see things is that if the driving force has the ability not to stall then you engineers please tell me why this cannot be done ????????Love Joe.

From what I can recall from my mechanical drives classes I took in college back in the early 90's most inline or inline offset multistage gearboxes are bi directional in regards to be gear up or gear down provided the design specs for torque and RPM are not exceeded or at least factored into the de rating of them for use outside their respective designed ratings.

In practical application have seen countless gearboxes serving in what I would consider a honest gear up working condition whenever a piece of equipment uses any form of dynamic or regenerative braking action. This can include every transmission in use in every car, truck, commercial vehicle or piece of machinery.

If anyone can explain how a 5000 Hp swing motor and gearbox on a massive electric drag line crane doing regenerative braking at its full 5000 Hp motor capacity is not working in a gear up condition then I would like it explained in detail same for a fully loaded semi Jake braking at 400+ Hp!

The only reason a 50 ton truck cant pull of from a dead stop in high gear is because the engine is at the wrong end of it torque and horsepower production curve. That being that at an idle a 400Hp truck engine may only be able to produce 50 HP at best.

This is how the numbers work. To get a 400 Hp rating at say 2100 RPM that means the engine is producing 1000 foot pounds of torque at that 2100 RPM speed.

(Torque times RPM)/5252 equals Horsepower. At an idle that engine is only spinning at 500 RPM and at that speed the torque it can produce is perhaps 500 foot pounds.

(500 times 500) / 5252 equals 47 horsepower.

To further compound the problem the gear ratio of a truck in high gear at 2 MPH would probably put the engine speed down around 50 RPM which is why they stall out.

Basically thats why a truck cant pull out in high gear. The RPM's and possible torque the engine makes is only a fraction of the speed and power the engine is capable of and needs top keep running and to accelerate with.

Make an engine that can produce that 42,000 foot pounds of torque needed to make 400 HP at 50 RPM and it will easily pull out fully loaded in high gear without problems provided that it does not twist the drive shaft off first. Sound familiar?

There is some "meat" in the numbers that have been provided. He has produced a 1/10 scale model.

Joe, what factor have you used for the wind speed in your model. The local guys can give you some guidance to the actual factors to use, but air velocity, forces and such all need to be scaled from the model.

For instance, 1/10 linear model with 1m/sec wind is not simulating a full scale model in 1m/sec wind, but 10m/sec wind.

I suggest that you might be better off asking these guys how to convert your data from your model to 1:1 predictions as confirmation of your assumptions.

I understand your passion for the project and wish you all the best, but "use the force" of CR4 to review your findings.

You keep indicating that you want a gearbox with significant "step-up" ratio. The electrical motor manufacturers usually offer boxes in their product range. You unfortunately keep talking of "toy" boxes and then "unimaginable power". You need to choose what you want to follow. Do you want a toy or the real thing?

Again, check the calcs for scale. I'd hate to see you spend so much effort to find thee has been a fundamental error.

Hi Cobba,down under, Thank you for such a nice comment. The wind speed on the day that we tested the device was 5mph give or take a bit. I did not check any other factors, I was just pleased to confirm that the principle of levers could multiply the force of the wind. I am only talking about toy gear boxes because the shafts are breaking when a few thousand horse power are applied to them. Obviously I want a real gear box that will step up the speed without breaking the drive shaft. The fundamental error that you speak of is what I am trying to solve. All these mega newtons are pie in the sky if the wind provides a variable force that I am unable to measure. I am just glad that this force exists and if it snaps a hundred shafts on it's way to perfection then so be it. This energy has to be tamed and I am not clever enough to tame it. I think that the only way is to use a very,very large ring gear to give me the driving speed to the alternator/generator. Not one of you engineers have commented on this ,as yet. Please tell me your thoughts.Love Joe.

One of your key errors is that if you want to multiply the torque or force, you have to gear the speed down. If you gear up, that divides the torque by the same ratio. Good grief, don't you know anything about engineering? For this reason, no engineer on this (or any other) planet will be able to help you, even if they wanted to.

Apparently some have tried, but you refused to listen, and instead insulted them for their efforts.

I came back to have a look.. Oh, Joe.

Sort of like a train wreck...

Doorman, Thanks for coming back mate.I guess you thought that I would reveal how my idea works.As you can see they are having a go at me for my lack of knowledge with regard to this torque business.We can't be good at everything and at least I am prepared to admit it. All I want them to do is to tell me the maximum torque that the largest gear box ever made can handle when it is used as a step up box. I am going to bed now and when I rise in the morning I shall look forward to your comments and the rest of the gang. Thank you all for such a lively debate and God bless every one of you. Love Joe.

To get your shaft and gearbox, I would suggest that you contact "General Electric" corporation and "Mitsubishi" corporation and ask them to tender for your work.

These guys build and refurbish the types of device that you indicate you need.

They have standard "non-disclosure" contracts to protect your information and are well staffed by competant designers.

They will accept your design and built it to your specifications and accept payment for the work involved.

They both have experience in building power stations, generator sets, turbines and such.

You will need to provide them a tender document or similar specification of your needs. They will expect some compensation for preparation of the necessary plans and documents that will become your property when you pay the fee.

Heck, the next step that you will need to take is to find a business partner with the capability to fabricate and distribute these around the world and both those corporations would seem potential candidates.

Thank you mate, for that good information but I think I will wait on a while to see if I can purchase all I need off the shelf. I only need the gearbox and the alternator. Once I own the intellectual property rights the University is going to finance and build a full working plant. My aim in talking to you lads is to learn as much as I can prior to meeting this team. I do not wish to look foolish now. Do I? I have already contacted the big energy suppliers and they show no interest whatsoever They do not want some outsider like me shoving them off their perch. They are committed to collecting as many investors as they are able to finance their very lame wind turbine farms.My turbines will run on pure wind power unlike theirs where they have to keep them spinning by using dirty power off the grid to spin them,in an attempt to get more investors.Enough said. Love Joe.

Here's a machine with ~5,600,000 lb-ft of torque. Maybe the OP could adapt this approach....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%A4rtsil%C3%A4-Sulzer_RTA96-C

But still, it's way short of "infinite"

[I liked this bit;

"engine displacement

1820 litres per cylinder"

Yikes!]

link

That's okay; he don't know the difference.

"1820 litres per cylinder"

The fuel injectors look like midgets with caulking guns!

Umm 3 watches = 42 midgets. Should we have spares?

Only if you cant get the monkeys to multitask and do two or more cylinders at a time!

(Okay I know that makes almost no sense what so ever but really did my post 70?)

(Or the rest of this thread for that matter?)

No - makes perfect ergonomic sense.

Arm span wise.

We could Patent this!

Let's see--102 rpm 2-stroke, so each pair of cylinders will require 102 strokes per minute--that'll keep both hands busy! If anybody has to take a leak, there will be a few misfires.... But the cylinders may be far enough apart that one person can't reach both (wasn't that thing about 90 feet long?)

To 73: But a patent would take at least 5 months, according to the OP.

Oh - you mean I just don't go lodge my provisional, take a number, go refine it under protection by prior date, for a year, then lodge my final, then in due course come up for examination, argue that on 'novelty' [not practicality, or workability, or cost benefit] - the get awarded Letters Patent?

How can this BE!

And what do you mean 'person' - monkeys have far larger arm span than any .. ^{_{oh crap, I think I just blew the invention. Sry Tcm.}}

I dunno how it works on the OP's side of the pond. The USPTO used to require models, I think; and I think they still (try to) weed out perpetual motion schemes.

Why this guy wants a patent, I wouldn't stinkin' know; only another complete idiot would try to steal the concept. (Maybe I shouldn't say that; does anybody (including the OP) know what the concept actually is?)

I could do it, but I haven't yet priced out his 70m³ 30mm wall tanks.

According to his first sentence its clearly already patented.

Its in the sentences and paragraphs that come after that and in the following posts where everything starts to become increasingly blurry and fall apart.

Hi Tcmtech, At least you believe me that I have patented this device. This means that instead of all this falling apart it is gaining in strength. You still have not commented on the large ring gear and small sprocket method of driving the turbines. The 36feet diameter one that is made in China is a little on the small side. I wonder if you have any knowledge of any larger ones.I will have no more than 8 teeth on the sprocket as I am aware that divides into the number of teeth on the ring gear to give it it's ratio.i saw a picture of this gear on the net and only the Lord knows how I could get it delivered. It dos'nt look as it is made in sections but in hind site it has to be. I have read somewhere,just to throw this observation into the ring, that they have made a step down gear box with a ratio of 70,000:1 what a great shame that I can't use this one in reverse. Now that is torque with a capital T.Then I would believe in the laws of physics. Love Joe.

There is an error in your statement: you have applied for a patent which is not yet granted. have you got a report with other patents considered in same direction and to which you have to answer why yours is a novelty and better ? Have you send the answer and was it accepted ? Before this you never can be sure that you can get the patent.

Hi Nick Name, In the UK we do not have to prove novelty. We simply send the provisional patent in and they send us a confirmation and give us a "Priority date". We pay a few hundred £'s and the patent office do a world search. If they find conflicting ideas they send us copies of the entire patent. So there is no error in my statement. Let me just add that if anyone has patented this method of multiplying the power of the wind, then the world would not be sending men down coal mines and be erecting monstrous looking wind mills all over the worlds landscapes that need at least 500 cubic metres of concrete to hold them upright. Just to put things into perspective, did you know that the United Kingdom a tiny dot of a country,has over 3,000 of the "Bird mincers" dotted around it.They are currently producing 0.04% of our electricity. At £4.5 million each they are nothing less than pathetic. You engineers should be having a go at them and welcome me into your flock. I have the power but cannot use it.Oh in case you doubt my word re-the novelty factor, I will tell you that all this is written up in my claims for intellectual property. I have sixteen patents most are in the provisional stage. Love Joe.

Your .04% rating of the UK wind power production is way off. The official number is around 1.5% and gaining rapidly which means that your .04% number is off by a factor of about 37.5 or more times too low.

As far as the bird mincers go wind turbine bird strikes are about 10,000 times less than vehicle strikes so the killing birds issue is rather a pointless argument at best. Windows on houses and buildings do in far more birds a year than wind power does.

Its these false numbers and reasonings that are why people of the applied sciences can not take and will not take you or people like you and your ideas seriously. That and the general observation that you can not provide even the most basic answerers to simple questions. I am still waiting to hear from you on what power plant you worked at so that I can confirm that they use some sort of mystical 20,000 RPM generator for commercial 50 Hz power production but I am not holding my breath waiting for that answer though.

Relating to speaking for god I would watch out. As far as I know those who claim to be his mouth are usually well known for being the ones who speak out their ass's the most!

Tcmtech,The 0.04% that I speak of was stated by a Government Minister, so perhaps you would like to contact him . I can only tell you the facts as I hear them. I do not doubt everything that is said, unlike you.Where did you get the 1.5% figure. ??? It is still rather pathetic when you consider the size of this little island,3,000 is an awful lot. I suggest when we have 3,000,000 of them they may start to make an impression. The power station where I worked has been demolished now but for the record it was called East Midlands Electricity Board. The generators did not have gear boxes and were housed in a glass dome approx 8feet long X4ft wide. I run machines every day at speeds in excess of 3,000 RPM and I can tell you, a machine that revolves at 20,000 RPM looks as if it is stationary in comparison.I told you I was a fabricator welder,I wasn't counting revs. I just believed the engineer that was being paid to nurse them. Re- your God comment, that was totally uncalled for. You are behaving like Lyn, kindly refrain from such remarks. Love Joe

I never said I believed you patented your device but only that you say you have as your first sentence indicated.

I don't follow your reasoning for needing a 36 foot gear to drive a tiny gear to make a speed increasing system. Multi stage gearboxes do high ratio changes by using multiple stages of less ratios stacked together.

A 3:1 turning a 10:1 turning another 10:1 turning another 10:1 gives you a final ratio of 3000:1

3 * 10 * 10 * 10 = 3000 which is easily done with all common gearboxes the only limitation is the the gearboxes have to be properly sized for the torque they are going to handle in each stage.

Also you seem to have the concept of torque and power confused as well. A trillion foot pounds of torque at 0 RPM is 0 power still. Lots of torque but absolutely no work is being done or energy is being transfered.

Hi Tcmtech, Oh dear that has bought me back down to earth, I truly thought you believed me, oh well that's life. So there are such things as multi stage gear boxes and it is possible for me to get a step up box with a 1:3,000 ratio. You have been holding this information back and a lot of you are claiming it cannot be done. So when I meet the Boffins in Uni in the near future, Are you sure they are not going to ridicule me when I lay this method on them. So would you now be kind enough to tell me the type of gearboxes that would be suitable for my application. I take what was said about the Radicon gears but I know that my 70;1 turns over without too much effort and does definitely not lock up. I cannot recall the person that sent me that info.but I am very grateful for you going to the trouble to contact Radicon sincere thanks for that. I can rest for a while now that you have given me this great news. God bless you Tcmtech. Love Joe.

Tornado, You are such a doubter. Our University have seen the driving force in operation. They are intelligent enough to see that it can be powered unto infinity. It is not perpetual motion. if the wind drops below approx 3mph it will stop.Existing wind turbines need a wind speed of 6.8mph just to get them turning. They need a wind speed in excess of 15mph before they can light a 25watt bulb. You say only a complete idiot would want to steal my patent. I think you would run straight to your Patent Agent even if it was in the middle of the night, if you had a glance of my model in action.I will admit that if the wind did blow 24/7 then it is a perpetual motion device but so are existing wind turbines. It is just a pity that they are so expensive and so feeble for their purpose. By the way Tornado,the 70,000 litre tank with a 28 bar pressure and a wall thickness of 30mm costs £60,000 +20% Vat.and £8,000 to be placed on site.Sorry I cannot work it out in USD's.I will require approx one hundred of these so that they get a couple of days head start prior to them generating, this way the wind will keep them topped up unto eternity, that is if it dosn't stop blowing for a week or two. We only have small trucks and roads in the UK so this is the largest tank that is practical.Now can you see where I am coming from,it's not rocket science. Love Joe.

34point 5,I do not know why you are questioning the word "infinite". If Tornado's massive diesel engine was made with one million, two million etc,pistons of this capacity, I would suggest that this word was heading in that direction. Like my patent it multiplies it's power every time you add to it. I havn't a clue what the physics laws teach but they really should tell the founder of these laws that making a machine with multiples of it,s concept will give increased outputs.,And that is a fact.Love Joe.

There is a possibility that the poster has been exposed to a disease that involves infection of the central nervous system by a hostile microorganism. This is not a joke, either from me or from providence. A symptom is very poor and/ or sporadic communication between the consciousness center and analytic and memory centers of the brain. This can produce "knowledge" of an idea (which can actually exist in other parts of the brain) but without access to the details which make up the body of understanding of the idea. The idea can be present, but the vocabulary needed to discuss it's details is not available. This can produce frustration and the pejorative hostility we see presented here. Treatment is available but difficult. Diagnosis is also difficult, but worth it. If this disease is present here, heavy antibiotic (not anti-psychotic) treatment can bring us this great idea - or a renewed respect for the usefulness of details and physics.

Hi Professor, Woodpower. I can't understand a word you are saying,I am a humble patent applicator.It looks as you are saying it's all in my brain. I do not dispute this and that is where it is staying untill I have the power to speak out.The part of your comment saying it produces frustration and perjorative hostility in me is also spot on.I am climbing the wall,my blood is at boiling point and now you are having a go at me. It is not a nice thing having to wait for people with no enthusiasm to give me the go ahead to get this project built.I appreciate you comment, you speak as though you are a qualified "Head Doctor" so I will take heead and calm down but I will not retract my physics remark until I am proven wrong.Love Joe.

This thread has turned into an obscene waste of time.

Joe, you have made irresponsible, totally unfounded, outrageous claims that you can't possibly ever prove. You have not provided even the slightest indication that you are anything but an ignorant blowhard with a vivid imagination and an extremely inflated opinion of yourself and your accomplishments.

In short, Joe, I think you are a total fraud and am suggesting that this thread be put out of it's misery.

Agree, since no hope that he will be ever able to understand. I hope he will not commit suicide when he will see that all his dreams go down the sink. You imagine all what he build as image will collapse! Poor guy. What I do not like is that on one side he writes we are zeros and from the other he asks for help in any possible way. It is really schizophrenic.

Nick name I can't put this blog to bed while you are claiming that I think you are all Zeros.I am not sure why you think that. People on this site are saying that I am aggressive and stuff like that but I think the aggression is coming from you and the rest of the lads. When you see that I have an answer for all your remarks you go on about monkeys and doppy things. But I got the information in the end and it was what I have been advocating all along. Sincere thanks to you all for a bit of fun. I shall now get on with my next project, titled; "Slowing down time".Now this is one that can handle a normal gearbox. Love Joe.

Lyn, you truly have lost the plot now, just because you can't work out this project. Don't be such a big girl and stop having these tantrums. Like I told someone earlier if you don't believe me then lay your bet and I will collect from you once I can prove my claim. Chill out all will become clear when you watch the news programmes in a few weeks. Love Joe.

" Like I told someone earlier if you don't believe me then lay your bet and I will collect from you once I can prove my claim. Chill out all will become clear when you watch the news programmes in a few weeks. Love Joe."

How many weeks away are we talking here, four? seven? ten? I will put $5000 American cash up front on this and my lawyers will back it up if I can see the complete readable plans for it plus they have to stand up under basic mechanical engineering scrutiny and prove that it does what you say it does.

If not my lawyer will happily file the paperwork against you for fraud and the related legal actions that go with it.

Send me a PM here with the blueprints and a complete written explanation of the mechanical workings plus pictures of any prototype devices. If its real I will invest no questions asked.

The ball is in your court provided you even know what game we are playing?

Tcmtech, Not a bad deal mate, if I fell for that I would be a right monkey. By you wanting to invest in me shows you have a glimmer of doubt in your mind.I definately do not want those odds which is lucky for you as you will be the loser. You will not need blue prints, the minute you see the photographs every law in your physics book would jump out at you.You will become my first overseas investor. I think I shall set a tarriff of 10 USD a share. I am not greedy I just need this baby to get to the Stock Market and make my family and I comfortable . Perhaps some of you lads would care to become my overseas representatives. You will get top dollar,a personal secretary and a chaufer. There are 168,000 farms currently in England so if half of these purchase a device to "Farm the wind" at say £250,000 each then I should be able to retire in 12 months. Still you know what I am with numbers but it is nice to dream untill I get the magic letter and all this becomes a reality. You people can collect say 10% for every farmer you sell to in your country.It will be the greatest day of my life. Electric cars will be pulling into our service stations by the hundreds buying our cut price electric. All the big power raisers that having been robbing us for years will go to the wall as we flood the National Grid with free energy. Not long now. Love Joe.

CR4---- Don't I get a score? I need to ask another question but not while they are in this mood. Would it be possible for me to come back in a different name next time.I think they have had enough of me. I have enjoyed your forum and thank you for not chopping me short.I will be back in a couple of days. Joe.