Are We Too Quick to Debase Questions?

We have had this sort of discussion several times. There is no simple answer.

In this recent thread, an Anonymous Poster lamented the sometimes inhumane treatment being dished out here. My comment there is more or less appropriate here. The italics are copied from the original post:

"Some GURUs are also contributing remarkably to reduce such questions by attacking/criticizing the posters and avoiding to give actual answers." This is just like real life. Do you not suppose a boss or customer might do likewise? Individuals who learn that they will not be coddled forever have a better chance at doing well in their chosen craft. Likewise it may reveal an incorrectly chosen life path; this is not for those with a thin skin or fast uncontrollable temper.

"Sometimes it resulted in hurting of the posters." Just like real life. Who will spare their feelings in the future?

"However it sourced for more meaningful questions." Ah, the smell of success.

So if we have had this discussion before, should we not assume then that we do have a problem here?

A thought provoking comment Phys.

"... should we not assume then that we do have a problem here?" For the sake of discussion let's assume there is a problem. Is this a problem of perception, a problem of playground bullies populating the forum, or something else?

Perception: Whose perception? What is being perceived?

Bullies: I had a rambling soliloquy typed out, but decided it better to bounce things around a little bit more.

Could you post examples for review please....

I didn't do this to avoid having the poster of the nasty replies try "shooting" at me.

If the shoe fits.....

So you want some poster, of some alleged "nasty replies" to try shooting at you,,,if the shoe fits?? You lost me...

I would call some of the responses a bit short (and yes, Guilty as Charged sometimes, particularly homework).

I can't say I have ever seen any that I would call Deliberately Nasty.

I have also seen appropriate applogies when comments have been "missdirected" or are incorrect in regards to homework.

The GlobalSpec Moderators also make this a great forum by simply being there and catching any Nasties that arise before they go to far and put an end to them.

Alll-in-all I think it is reasonably balanced out.

Regards,
Sapper

It may help if the person raising the query has a button to highlight that the question is related to homework, personnel on the site might then treat the poster a bit friendlier (spelling unsure). I have also seen various threads where the poster is trying to connect several items of electrical equipment and yet indicates no previous knowledge or training within that field. I agree with some of your comments though and several replies are sometimes a little short but mostly this seems to be due to little or no knowledge of the subject matter by the original poster

So true!

I have personally been put into the situation your are referring to. Too many companies expect you to know everything and have no problem telling you to do a task you are not qualified to do. If you don't, someone else will and you will be moved down a rung in the company or get all the crap jobs.

I learned how to arm and detonate an explosive radial casing cutter at the well site. This was for 8" diameter schedule 40 pipe and was a Class A explosive. I was asked to do it, and the company I worked for did not want to hear that you did not know how. To admit to this put you at risk for all the nasty jobs that came along for the next 6 months and little off time. (100 hour weeks were common and they had a way to ensure the "right" people got the longest hours) Both I and my "operator" or "rigger" assumed the other had done this before - neither had. A forum to question would have been a blessing, but this was in the early 80's - the Dark Ages. Fortunately, it went off in the ground at the right depth - not in our hands. Then there was the time the o-ring on the Cesium 137 source failed and needed replacing.....

I recommend you research anecdotal fallacy. Think about it.

Could you please help us put this into perspective.

You say," most questions in the Electrical Engr. and Instrumentation sections are immediately "

What data do you have to corroborate the statement. Your statement is that over half of the, " questions in the Electrical Engr. and Instrumentation sections " are "immediately answered". What period if time is immediately?

Finally, I'd like to know how you arrived at the conclusion that, "the person seems to be deficient in the English language. "

Have you any data? Only then, will we know.

And in conclusion (finally) this forum is sponsored and controlled by Search GlobalSpec moderators who can, and do, keep things well in hand.

I could offer you proof that moderators do interceed when necessary. But I won't.

I am in total agreement with your Sir!

Because some people can't shut up. They feel an 'ignorant' question deserves the same response regardless of how it will affect the person posting the question.. talk about ignorance.. it's certainty not unique to this forum.

I have come across two problems-1)Posters do not give required(asked)information to solve the problems,2)Some posters treat the forum as a "quiz" competition and finally give their answer,Both waste time.

The main reason that I get upset with such posters is because of safety issues.

We get a badly written question (thats OK, I can usually figure it out), with awful spelling (no reason for that as the spell checker can fix most of that, but nobody uses it!!) question that should only be given to someone who has studied for 5 years and been using that information for a further 10 years in the field.....the person asking the question does not even know which is the sharp end of a screwdriver & does not have access to the needed equipment or how to use it.

It is a recipe for getting someone killed and they cannot see that themselves.....

I actually feel (but I don't know how) that these questions should be simply erased and a set form sent back to the poster telling him why in a general manner why.

If it was anonymous, then just simply erase the question.

CR4 cannot answer such questions for someone who could put his life, other lives and millions of $$$ of equipment in danger if he was unable to fully follow the tips, or which tip from us was right and which one was totally wrong (and we sure get a load of wrong answers here!!!).

There is no way that you can answer such posts in a way that WON'T upset the original poster.....short sharp and accurate "NO EFFING WAY NUMBSKULL!" is the best way to go, no misunderstandings there......

I also wonder how many lives have been saved in this way by us rude Guys here?.....

India & Pakistan seem to produce the most questions of this sort......or at least that is my impression. Too many unqualified people in high positions maybe?.....Nepotism?

That's my 2 cents worth.....

Just to be the devil's advocate here. Since lyn's name was brought up............Has anyone noticed that for every snarky answer, there are probably 100 in which he either answers the question or performs a free google search for the OP and posts the results?

It's easy to blame the regulars here, but how many times is it the OP that is the first to cop an attitude? Plenty. That's where Tornado comes in and sets them straight. It's most always entertaining.

Sometimes it's unnecessary, but then again, every single morning, the front page is filled with 99% spam and gobbly gook that makes no sense.

Besides. I've heard engineers called a lot of things................I've never seen kind, nice and understanding on the list. Particularly when it comes to people that refuse to do even a little bit of work on their own. If they are young people, it's better for them to learn that here, than to be fired from the first job they ever get. Snarky or not, sometimes harsh criticism is not only deserved, but healthy in the long term.

Demeaning people because of a language barrior is something I don't see very often, and it's not right. The actual question can usually be culled from the information provided.

For those who think they know it all, here is a quote from Michelangelo:

"I am still learning."

Hubris has been the subject of many works of art and parables throughout history. I would encourage everyone, who hasn't had the opportunity to become educated outside their chosen field, to take some classes or read. Rudeness does not promote learning or intelligent discussion and preparing others to be treated rudely in the world is not the purpose of a good discussion forum, imho.

Thank you.

I find it amusing that this stampede of self-righteousness has been caused by some truly outrageous, unfounded, uninformed and probably false claims, as I said in my earlier post.

Let the moderators control the forum. It's theirs, not ours.

There, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Quit hiding behind the safety argument.. no answer or a polite one is far more 'righteous'. I see posters with really high post numbers posting simple answers such as 'i don't know?' More often than necessary.. for what? To raise their numbers and increase their presence I'm guessing.. those who are rude are usually the same rude folks.. its not thrilling entertainment either. It is however a window into others lives and perspectives.. I know who I could and couldn't stand to spend time with in the real world.. engineer types don't have to be pigeonholed as antisocial.. that's rude and ill informed.. ;)

Not hiding behind a safety argument. Around where I work there are signs that say " Think Safety First". So I'm standing in front of it. Lot of people jump in to action before thinking things through. I have seen quite few post that have asked for information. In the context of asking it appears that they know little on the subject. What they ask could be dangerous to themselves or others. Could some of those who Phys has brought up have been more tactful, sure they could.

So are we being asked to censor this forum ourselves? Up to who standards yours, mine, Phys or the next guys who feels offended? I personally think the moderators do a excellent job.

Life and human nature has taught me that if you would put all nice guys in a forum sooner or later one would complain that another was too nice. So do we really want to push aside this knowledge base over tact.

Guys, I'm not trying to be a goody two shoes. I have no problem with not providing info that may endanger the OP or people and equipment around him. That too is providing useful info. Just explain why you can't in good faith provide the requested info. I know engineers are born two drinks below the rest of the world in socialization (however "The Big Bang Theory" TV series portrayl gives me a pain in the a__), but a stereotype doesn't mean engineers are licensed/required to be gruff and nasty. I've always tried to give people the benefit of a doubt until they show that they are not going to be cooperative. I've driven people that I didn't know crazy over the years by beginning discussions by trying to determine their level of understanding of the background of the issue we were dealing with and the associated technical principles. I do this because I've had people brief me without establishing how they got to the current situation. Try to minimize the confusion and false starts up front (entropy always increases anyway). Like I and several others have said, a little extra effort to be nice will pay returns. God knows quick response confrontation has started more fights than we can count. Now for the regulars who have a running sniping contest with each other, none of this applies. Y'all are all big boys who can give and take it with humor. When I first joined this forum I had hopes that there would be more discussions of the technical basis for engineering rather than "how do you fix this _____ (fill in your problem) with model ______ equipment?" Quite often it seems that this is a local storefront for free engineering services. However there are still occasional discussions that illuminate questions that have bothered me since college, so I guess I'll hang around for a while and continue to skip over stuff that doesn't interest me. Sorry!

I would encourage you to start a thread on the "technical basis for engineering."

Milo

I shouldn't have even responded to this thread, since I tend to hang out with people outside of CR4, that have lewd, crude, raunchy, senses of humor, and could be considered nasty a**holes if someone didn't know them. They would also typically give someone the shirt off their back to help them out. Go figure.

Yeah, but then you have to look at them with their shirts off! (Humor intended!)

It ain't pretty.

How do you call people who believe to be very intelligent and despise those who are or seem to be less intelligent ? There is a specific word and several times I ahd the feeling that many of participants suffer from this complex.

CR4 member?

Well i see an increase of questions from India( it seems), lots of high voltage questions or questions in poor English, or even " i start project please help!"

some of those questions are easily solved by using google, but maybe it is because of their English level that they ask here first

maybe before posting a new thread CR4 should opt the user, "is this a homework question?" if yes send the asker to an other section or a homework site.

but back on topic, i usually refrain from posting in those question threads because

a) high voltage and power motors are not my field

b) this question can be googled

c) i don't understand the question!

I concur with your summary of the complications of multicultural communication. I wish to elaborate a little on your point of respecting other cultures, the respect should be a mutual respect. When the English I read seems to insult my profession, schooling or anything else I cherish, I reserve the right to display my outrage. It does not matter at this point if the insult is intentional. What matters is that the publicly posted words appear to be offensive, a public response is merited for all to see that offense. This response clearly should not be vindictively abusive. A vindictive response should be moderated into oblivion. My response tries to clarify my outrage so all can understand why I am offended without being abusive.

My point here is that people of other cultures should also be respectful of the Engineering culture here at CR4. This should be a bidirectional mutual respect across cultures. The obligation to respect other cultures does not lie solely on the English speaking community of CR4.

I think everybody should chill out and take everything that's said here with a grain of salt.

Considering the diversity of the subject matter and personalities, things go pretty darned well on here.

I'm doin' a project. I want to know how to hook up my motor and how big the wires should be. How many hertz do I need? What if all my wire is the same color, how will I make it a four speed?

Most excellent answers needed very soon and I have no idea what to do. Plz help, urgent.

Do not reply if you cannot give good answer.

No home work done on CR4 basically we give SUPPORT to those who already made efforts to try to find a solution or an answer and are not sure of results or how to pursue. Everybody has to start on his own if not how will behave after school ? Will yèou hire a consultant ?

Very well put!

I think most members are willing to help those students who put forth a little effort and explain their problems without asking for just the answer.

I have no patience with anybody who is being paid to do a job but comes here to be told what to do and how to do it. Wire sizing, circuit breakers and metal classification and properties come to mind as examples of lazy posters. The answers to many of these questions can be found with a simple search of the millions of sites available on the internet.

Once again, I think we would all help someone who comes here with a legitimate technical issue, and gives some explanation of steps already taken.

As kramarat pointed out, for every snarky response to a dumb question there are hundreds of responses when members do the legwork or have the knowledge at hand and willingly help the person in distress.

That's not funny, far too close to the real thing here......sadly!

We have enough of such crap without adding more as a joke!!!

Oh please.

Yank your underwear out of your arse. You'll be a much happier person.

What underwear?

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/29291?frmtrk=cr4sd#newcomments

Maybe that's what keeps me happy, always.......Loose fit jeans and no underwear!! I like "hanging" about!

Speaking of statements that may qualify as debasing, you may want to rethink your tag line, Andy.

Humbly,

sue

I hadn't even noticed that. I guess I'm just cold, hard and jaded....................it doesn't bother me in the least.

It hurts about as much as being picked on by the French.

You are right, although I find more than a thread of truth in it, I don't want to upset you Guys too much either.....

I will change it when I find something good enough to replace it with!!

How about this one?

Frankly i liked the now disappeared trevanian line. Milo

I liked it too, but you know that some people are over sensitive........and I am a gentleman.....I had it for several weeks.....

That's a good one. I didn't mind the other one either.

be watchful of the zipper!

YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!

Having so many teeth (without any lips!) in that area, does mean I need to take GREAT care when zipping, and never drink too many beers or be in a great hurry!!!

Semper Ubi Sub Ubi.

Illud pendet cum potest .