What Role Do Hydraulic Systems Play in Renewable Energy

1. Hydraulic systems produce flow and use pressure (resistance to flow), heat is simply a byproduct of inefficiencies.

2. In a hydraulic system a relatively small and instantaneous amount of power can be held in an accumulator. Accumulators are much more like Capacitors than they are like Batteries, and should only be used as such.

3. Depends on application, typically longevity of the accumulator, and cost are your main criteria. The least expensive and easiest to maintain are going to be your bladder style accumulators... but they are not filled with "air", they are pre-filled with nitrogen, and need to be kept vertical, while piston accumulators can operate in any orientation. ultimately, it depends on your particular application.

4. Do not think of accumulators like a battery, they are not. They simply can provide extra bits of flow in a system, when the pump cannot offer what is needed, or they smooth out pressure spikes and dips, they do not (in your sense) "store power" like a battery.

In regards to IQ, common sense or Witty remarks, but my advise to you is to not make mention of such things unless you are welcoming on extra Witty remarks and banter. I hypothesize that you actually inspire more "thoughtless replies" due to your comments.

You are almost right. Let me explain

1. in a thermal mind mode the heat from the systems are captured in a cone shape structure at base cooling grids( air intake for vortex chamber) Heat is our best freind.

2. The stored power is hydraulic( not electrical).

3. Larger accoumlators Say 650gl. with high flow 32.gl would run a generator for 20 miunets. Also with vacum pressure the fill rate can be increased & matching air pressure to spring 1 could lower parts cost.

4. All hydraulic ( Not battery)

To be at a closser mind set of emmerging renewables site all 1 word renewablethermalwindpower.com this will help you grasp the bigger picture all help is needed in getting this in action for our environment.

Agreed. And, this 650 gallon accumulator provides 20 minutes of operation in a world with no loss, no ramping...

and no calculations...

Don't confuse him with facts. It'll only make him more vocal.

Lyn coming from you that is like telling a blind can't you see that right there in front of you. HA>HA

Glade the what if factor is still on your mind if anything?

Yes calculations on hydraulic systems & parts Id was done by parker Hydraulics industrail research & development divission ( Pumped up wind power) smaller unite is in use on large blade towers for blade pitch & yaw.

Air vacume & pressure systems done by Triad Technologies & affealates of companies.

It's not if the system works it's getting the information out to people & companies to get it done.

Now how can we all approuch this with thought of how to instead of what if? What if isn't the question no longer.

All the questions can be more indepth at sponsered community events with hands on items to see the how to in simple experionments.

So you have not done any calculations of your own?

WHY ? They did them for me for parts suppler of prats company for structure.

If the parts aren't correct parker will get the right parts, Their in in to better our planets environment as a group of compies materails supply.

I respect Parker hydraulics world wide hydraulic company.

With any project, regardless of size or complexity, it's always a good idea to understand the numbers involved.

How do you know that the figures you were given are correct?

How can you verify that the calculations that were done off site & out of your control were based on the correct criteria?

How can you guarantee the guy who did the calculation for you actually understood what was really needed?

How can you ever know your project will work if you don't have a grasp on the figures involved?

I ALWAYS do my own math and make sure it matches what the "other guys" gave me. otherwise you are blindly having faith in something completely out of your control. You may have had some freshly graduated engineer doing your calculation for you that had no experience doing them, or didn't fully understand it. I have been given numbers from Parker, Rexroth, Hydac and others that were incorrect, people make mistakes, it's up to YOU to catch them. Keep in mind, Parker's interest is to sell you parts, and make money doing it.

Putting your blind faith in anything technical is extremely dangerous.

My ultimate questions to you:

1. How do you know it works?
2. How do you know the efficiencies involved?
3. How do you know how much energy you can reclaim?

I'll save you the time... You don't.

You need to hire a good qualified experienced Engineer to help you if you truly believe in your project, otherwise you will drown in your own ignorance.

Sorry if I come off rash, but I have seen many projects go south really fast simply due to failure in verifying the calculations were correct.

Thanks for your Input. the facts are correct & power output is always 90% over all.

Now I ask you something? Most of all power systems have losses for 1 reason or another, Now when the power to run all internal parts cost is 10% (kinetic to mechanical) with all the thermal input of updrafts as well as natural wind is over 110% increase. the facts have been bounced around for over 10 years. They all agree from test.It's output is unbelievable for the type structure makes all the difference & what type inner material's used VS standard.

I am sure the spelling to some are like you say, Yet others still look past my disabilities and grammar to see the bigger picture.

As far as companies that are selling parts! If you were parker wouldn't you want to get involved in something that will change the wind & solar industry after proto type as parts supplier for all the larger structures around the world.

Maybe if some well Lenard engineers get some up-date on emerging structure material's & technologies from the last 5 years & keep a open mind, Maybe they may learn something from a new way to think.

Again Thanks, If all smart people were similar in remarks we all would learn something form you. Thanks.

PS Maybe a community event can help your area from at least knowing they have all the best information to make a long term plan for electric power op.

I've heard enough. Best of luck to you.

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So far you have the best hope for our world . It seems others would rather complain and do nothing( No thinking about what is possible) rather it can't be done approuch.

What happen to yes we can and is it possible?

Partly right in most Closed mechanical hydraulic systems Heat is not a wanted thing. In a open chamber cone the heat produced is a freind because the heat rissing is what helps it run at nite with no sun. Connititic to mechanical Hydraulic accoumlators are special made yes costly but worth it for the evnironment, Need 4 each The hydraulic power is what drives the system NOT ELECTRIC POWER.

No loss of energy? what are you thinking the heat is the energy, After all the name of the system is Renewable (Thermal)=wind power (Key word Thermal) not wind.

If this hydraulic power were driven with electric power then I would agree with you.

With the facts in basic thermal tech has proven it's princple (WORK FORCE)output.

Also Unarmed Facts in sceince & basic physsics Kennitces to Mechanical fluid power.

When I hear phrases like 'hydraulic accumulator' and 'stored energy' used together, I think of pumped storage.

This is just my low IQ kicking in, I am hoping it doesn't sound too silly.

Yes! you have it my freind. Maybe theres hope for our world yet, GOOD COMMON sence.

Now I hope you can keep inthere it gets even more interesting when you read some of the replies that will come in, Funny really They don't have a clue what happens around them.

If only 10% of smart people would get involved in actions we can make a differance in our life time for the environmental problems. check out the energy site posted in this thread to others.

Thanks for you interest get the spark talking about a way and how to get the public talking, It's that simple.

Kenny,

It is obvious that you do not subscribe to your own theory of, "it's better not to say anything" etc.

That is, assuming that I understood your admonishment at all.

Anyway, Doorman's concept of pumped storage seems to me to fit your needs quite nicely.

Google the Dinorwig pumped storage scheme near Llanberis, in Wales.

"Sometimes", an old mechanic told me, "you just have to get it out from under the shade tree. We are all stupid, just on different subjects. And likens to the man who bought the airplane and wanted some one to tell him how to fly..It takes a bit of reading,writing and knowledge of numbers to understand storage of energy, electrical and hydraulic. both serve themselves well and a bit of bookwork will increase those of us with the lower IQ's. This is not to be derogatory but is a fact of life. Principles of refridgeration, was taught in the third grade, it took 30 years before I understood them.

This was very true in life! sometimes we just try to hard to get-it we make it more intense and completed . Some get-it wright away some take longer and some never get-it. In whatever the thing is in area of hands on skills picked up in life as a learning tool.

I think Maybe we all need to be open to learning & keep asking the questions why things happen? then how can we use them?

Wow ! what happened to the engineer knowledge people?

Don't you have question on how it can work or dis- likes or just comments of wounder?

You should put together a nice presentation for everyone as to what it is, how it works, and how you propose to implement it in the real world if you want a good discussion.

Do you have working prototypes?

What are your figures: efficiency, energy savings, cost to implement, return on investment etc etc.

If you want people to take interest, and take you seriously, you need to provide some quality information.

Your website unfortunately has no real information, and I doubt any real Engineers or scientists will take it seriously without any facts. I would like to learn more about your system, if you are willing to share.

I am sorry I haven't gotten back sooner, Bullies had me tied up.

Yes you are correct, Thats been the bigger problem Here.

The public is not of up to date on research & therefore lack the ability or want to help.

Years ago when this project was set up 20 years ago, This was the shared technologies group.

It was thought by the time a way was thought of to combine these naturals with man made things in what type structure. We had thought many would be more open to the possibilities of renewable role in our world.

I have been some what out of the picture because of health related military. I am the ho to man (Not the if it will work, that has been done).

The hole point is discussion on what they are & how they work together for a less costly approach for long term for a community of what type to chose from.

Now if you really want to help it would be thankful, just by talking about it to your community as a possible what if about this systems.

I still don't know what "They" are. What is your widget, and how does it work?

No one will help if they don't even know what the heck the thing behind the curtain is.

If this has been in development for 20 years why has it not made it to market? does it not work? If it worked, and was a viable renewable energy option it would have already made it to market most likely.

My guess is that there is no widget to put to market. I hypothosise that you are very adept with smoke, and mirrors.

I beg you to please prove me wrong.

Also The hydraulic systems are the main transfer of kinetics to mechanical fluid power to run all other internal drive motors ( not electrical). The possibilities of where the cooling grids are for hydraulic cooling in base of structure cone intake for thermal-updraft. This helps as a power resource in form of power input totals in the combinations of man made thermal transfer systems 1 of 6.

Do you agree with this as possible?

With what? You haven't really said anything.

Something about a cone, hydraulics, and thermal transfer.. please elaborate.

Schematic?

Working model?

Calculations?

Drawings?

Video?

Do you have any of these things? I'm guessing you don't, but I hope you prove me wrong.

Ok !let me start again

This systems combinations are listed on the energy sites item 3. Last 10 pages for facts of what is the make-up. inside the cone structure as a containment chamber.

At this time it is only explaining what makes up what type of energy input & what type structure is proposed. Schematic? Your joking right, This is not to be released to the public yet.

Calculations! Yes & understood Not to be released yet.

Drawings! Yes on the energy site.

Proto type ! Yes in Phase 2 @ step 1 construction. Also stated in energy site.

This is not to prove anything ! It's not open to the HOW-TO. It's to inform only.

To understand how it works to others is from a public ED sponsored event for further information to keep big money from buying it, It is not for sale unless it is a community as a hole.

Print page 8,9,10 then start putting in what is disclosed in item 3 documents, Arrive to your own outcome. Then ask questions.

I skimmed your word document, have seen all your website, and still am not convinced this is not a high school science demonstration.

I do see that you are proposing a 2100ft base on this thing... is that diameter? That's over a third of a mile across! How much energy do you propose you can generate with this massive structure over a third of a mile across at it's base? Enough to run all the equipment needed to build it in a ten year span of operation? 20 year? When is it a net positive device/structure?

What harm is releasing your calculations if you are looking for potential investors? Wouldn't you want to see the figures if someone came up to you asking for an investment in their widget?

So you have no working prototype is what you are telling me?

I work with many energy companies/sectors, from hydro, wind, solar, coal, nuclear, offshore, and more. And If my company were to take notice of your widget, you would need to make darn sure it did exactly what you propose, and you would need to supply all the calculations, and prove it works on paper, and with a working prototype. Otherwise, you are spinning your wheels, going nowhere.

Best of luck to you.

-R

WOW! OK. for some reason you think I am wanting investors , NO Thats the hole point

This system is not for sale! This site merely explains what makes up the internal workings of a system still under full development, Until proto type is done in a much smaller unite lets say 300ft base across with a 150ft tall structure for 5 homes power supply. Smelliest structure that physic's say will work.

Now if you think about it, This information is free to those community's that want to know more, then sponsor a community event & I will speak more in depth.

The what if is not the problem It is known How to combine them DONE! Stats documented.

The 5 sizes structures will have the test from the smaller unite to ID bigger pumps & drive motors for larger structures.

The thread line is ( what role does hydraulics play in a renewable energy power plant)

Nothing more, (Like does it work or how much) All of that has been known for years it was what type skeletal frame & membrane meterail could be used, Not steel & concrete.

Who could ever afford to build one of these without investors? Do you have the capitol for a project of this magnitude? I know I don't.

The parts can be found in some recycling yards. Heavy equipment, Pumps & drive motors & oil coolers high flow should be around $1000. USD. I have them! Generator, From a old Fair ride old desial generator 32hp. $150.00 USD.

Glass is from old store front single glass Cost haul off free, I have it.

Looking for skeleton tube 6 inch. 900 series will need enough to make a cone shape 150 ft tall times 22 with round tubes ever 10ft section up. old jet fans 4 each. aircraft recycling yards.

Now as for the oil lines & biodegradable oil is needed, total ft is 350ft 2inch.

Do you have any experience with bio oils? total gallons needed 1500.gal.

This small system should be in around $150.000 Remember this is for 5 - 10 homes.

Your $150,000 estimate is based on used scrap-yard items. I completely support the idea of re-purposing things. However, there are going to be some roadblocks that you cannot overcome using this method. Not to mention the price tag for all new compliant components.

There are government systems in place that may take exception to a power system made with re-purposed junk items. It may be a environmental and safety concern.

As for prototyping purposes, I don't think anyone would have a problem if you built something in you backyard... unless your neighbors have an issue with some 150 foot tall eyesore... and now that I think of it, you may have some issues with the FAA for a structure that tall. You may need a permit.

I would love to see your monstrosity work.

I do have experience with Bio safe oils, and your 1000 gallons will cost you an arm and a leg. Some oils can run you $10/gallon or more. and flammability may be an issue in your system.

Things to consider...

Yes There are some road blocks to this structure, That if new parts for this project that have been addressed. Each county have some structure hight permit & need all close neighbors to sign off on permit as well as the FAA. (DONE).

Monstrosity Not really, The blade wind systems are the monstrosity that only has 1 source of power and only works part time & is more costly for it's area of unsafe bird area.

Now with all that understood, It still is better to try & do something to help our planets' environment than just complaining, The cost is somewhat hard for someone that is on disability but it is going to be done, with help or by my self for data for a community size structure.

You said FLAMMABILITY may be a issue True. But from the generator to oil coolers is only 30ft. then oil is no longer above normal use temp. From the pumps at the top to bottom are self encloses in metal pipe.

Good things you pointed out better than most, But already considered Thanks

Like I have stated earlier this is not just blindly going in without the things of thought or lack of facts into it.