Why Are Our Airbags Becoming Unstable

Maybe Takata should take up farming.

They've already got tone of fertilizer on hand.

As notorious an explosive as NH4NO3 is it should have been a red flag, not a green light!

additional...

"Ammonium nitrate has a critical relative humidity of 59.4%, above which it will absorb moisture from the atmosphere. Therefore, it is important to store ammonium nitrate in a tightly sealed container. Otherwise, it can coalesce into a large, solid mass. Ammonium nitrate can absorb enough moisture to liquefy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate

deaths caused by airbags....

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/AB0707.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanidine_nitrate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazole

http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2006-01-02/airbag-statistics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag

http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCSA

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812055.pdf

"Stephanie Erdman, who was injured by an airbag, described how metal debris had shot through the bag's cloth and into her right eye and neck. "CreditJabin Botsford/The New York Times
..."Stephanie Erdman, an Air Force officer, was involved in a crash of her 2002 Honda Civic in 2013. She described how metal debris had shot through the airbag cloth and into her right eye and neck.

"I was instantly blind on my right side, and then I felt gushing blood," Lieutenant Erdman said, choking back tears. "Since then, I have endured multiple surgeries and therapy - I have more of them to go," she added. "My vision will never be the same. I will never be the same.""...

"In most cases the airbags deployed during a minor accident. But one lawsuit charges that the airbags in a 2001 Honda Civic deployed for no apparent reason while the car was stopped at a red light.

The driver in that case, Kristy Williams, barely survived the 2010 accident. Shrapnel tore into her carotid artery. She was able to insert two fingers into the wound to stop the bleeding, and a nearby pedestrian put pressure on the neck wound until help arrived. But she still had several strokes and now suffers from traumatic brain injury, according to her suit."

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/autos/takata-airbag-victims/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/21/business/takata-airbags-senate-hearing.html

Thank you for that posting. I saw some headlines but never bothered to read the stories or Google the subject.

I know the answer is "Google it" but everyone probably want's to know if they have a Takata air bag in their car.

Also, will insurance companies honor consumer's requests that Takata air bags not be used when a car is repaired?

Well you can search NHTSA site with your vin# to see if you are ...

...there's really only about three big airbag makers....Takata, Autoliv and Daicel...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-23/air-bag-crisis-seen-spurring-shift-from-japan-s-takata.html

http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Press+Releases/Vehicle-owners-with-defective-airbags-urged-to-take-immediate-action

Why can't my dealer just use another supplier's air bag if the Takata replacement is available?

The recalled air bags were designed specifically for your car, including being sized for the specific packaging, calibrated for the automaker's performance parameters, and engineered to mate with the car's sensors and software. There is no handy, off-the-shelf alternative. Besides that, we are told by supply-chain experts that there is very little excess factory capacity and tooling anywhere that could be pressed into service quickly to make these specific parts.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/10/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-takata-air-bag-recall/index.htm

Woah! Ammonium nitrate!??! Don't let any Timothy McVeigh wanna be hear that or we'll have airbag thefts become a serious issue.

Yeah, that's much easier than simply buying bags of fertilizer.

Airbags are big news, but small potatoes as far as vehicle deaths are concerned.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA546CAFEStandards.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2010/04/death_by_cafe_standards.html

I expect better from you.

The hit pieces from you were published in 2006 and 2010.

I agree that air bag deaths are still rare, but, as more moisture is absorbed by the explosives.......................................................

They aren't hit pieces. You guys are forgetting the methods that the manufacturers use to implement CAFE standards.

The government demands "average" fuel efficiency from the manufacturers, and the way the manufacturers comply is to supplement their fleets with tiny tin cans that get 40 MPG.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that more people die in those tiny cars that were created specifically to meet "average" CAFE standards, than die in full size cars, trucks and SUVs.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809979.pdf

This article does a good job of explaining the conundrum for those that are unaware of it. Naturally, some egghead economist suggests that the government should force people to pay more for larger vehicles.

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/business-economics/saving-gas-via-underpowered-death-traps-34722/

Anyway...the airbag issue is a real one that needs to be fixed. I was replying to the McVeigh crack, and noting the lopsided importance that the government gives to certain situations. One case in point, apparently, is that people are blissfully unaware that more people die in little cars than big ones.

Here's one more great article on the convoluted world of CAFE standards. Yep, the PT Cruiser is a light truck.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-cafe-killed-compact-trucks-and-station-wagons/

Title of the thread is: Why are our airbags becoming unstable

CAFE didn't dictate the unstable propellant used in air bags.

That is total BS....saying that cafe' standards are responsible for increasing traffic fatalities is pure fabrication...as you can see this graph shows decreasing traffic related deaths, and we are at historic lows ....why don't don't you stop reading that crap and do some real research...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/safety-in-numbers-charting-traffic-safety-and-fatality-data

http://www.nhtsa.gov/FARS

Thank you interesting link. The various upticks are interesting, wonder what caused them? The mid '60's until the '70's is easy. Muscle cars + boomers coming of age.

The steep decline from 1950 to 59 is interesting. Cars were heavily redesigned in 56 onward and the power wars were on. The Interstate system was yet to be implemented. I would like to know the reason(s) for the steep decline.

It would also be of interest to determine if car safety systems are reasons for the downturn in the past 50 yrs. Are there fewer accidents that might have been fatal in earlier cars, indicating the cars are safer.

I haven't been to MA for decades, but as I recall, MA drivers were the most reckless I had ever seen until moving to the Caribbean. The only ones who were worse were found on St Armands Circle, but they seemed to be mostly senile NY'ers.

Seat belts were introduced, disc brakes, padded dash, latched doors....

http://www.timetoast.com/timelines/history-of-vehicle-safety

Seat belts, disk brakes? I don't recall seat belts on the 56 Fairlane, Dodge or 57 Desoto. First car I had with disk brakes was a 72 Celica.

The DeSoto was a hardtop and quite fast, speedo went to 150, Dad said he had it to 130 and ran out of road. I doubt anyone would survive a rollover in that, even at a reasonable speed, but sure was a sharp looking car. Saw one for sale in TX a few years back, 60K IIRC, it even had the gold anodized hubcaps.

Latching doors, can't say. Not even really sure what that implies.

Seatbelts came into being in the mid 50's but were mostly optional, they became more common in the 60's, and in '68 they became mandatory....

1. "American car manufacturers Nash (in 1949) and Ford (in 1955) offered seat belts as options, while Swedish Saab first introduced seat belts as standard in 1958. After the Saab GT 750 was introduced at the New York Motor Show in 1958 with safety belts fitted as standard, the practice became commonplace."

Disc brakes were most popular on sports cars and motorcycles and European cars....
"Reliable caliper-type disc brakes were developed in the UK by Dunlop and first appeared in 1953 on the Jaguar C-Type racing car. The 1955 Citroën DS featuring powered inboard front disc brakes was the first French application of this technology, while the 1956 Triumph TR3 was the first English production car to feature modern disc brakes.^[2]The first production car to have disc brakes at all 4 wheels was the Austin-Healey 100S in 1954.^[3] The first British company to market a production saloon (sedan) fitted with disc brakes to all four wheels was Jensen Motors with the introduction of a Deluxe version of the Jensen 541 with Dunlop disc brakes.^[4] The first German production car with disc brakes was the 1961 Mercedes-Benz 220SE coupe featuring British-built Girling units on the front.^[5][6] The next American production automobile equipped with caliper-type disc brakes was the 1963 Studebaker Avanti^[7] (the Bendix system was optional on some of the other Studebaker models^[8]). Front disc brakes became standard equipment in 1965 on the Rambler Marlin^[9] (the Bendix units were optional on all American Motors' Rambler Classic and Ambassador models^[10]), as well as on the Ford Thunderbird,^[11] and the Lincoln Continental.^[12] A four-wheel disc brake system was also introduced in 1965 on the Chevrolet Corvette Stingray.^{[13]"
Yeah I remember those Desoto's they were cool looking and fast....}



http://showcase.netins.net/web/tdp/desoto/fl.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt

As a former Masshole, I take an ever so slight umbrage to that characterization. We are just a little more assertive, that's all. After all, if you don't have a pair, you'll never get into a rotary.

Judging on how they drive in the Newark metro area here in NJ, NJ Turnpike, Route 78, Route 1&9, 22, 21, 280 and the GSP, if those same cars from the early 1950's were on the road today, there would be fatalities perhaps by the hour. Not sure what this new phenomenon is all about in driving without signals and the constant weaving at high speeds.

Yes but under Homeland Security those type of chemical purchases are closely monitored. Exceed a certain amount then the paper work starts and there is a big trail leading to suspicious characters. NSA will come knocking on the door if you don't appear to be a farmer. Those in a position to create terror will know that and try to avoid the simple route of buying fertilizer. Much harder to trace theft than purchases.

They be in Mehico, far from the all seeing eyes.

Maybe, but it sounds like stealing airbags could get someone killed if it's the wrong type.

I believe a terrorist expects death.

The answer is simple:

Manufacturers are always looking for ways to cut costs. That's it.

Someone comes along with their product that is cheaper and seems to satisfy test results in R&D.

Supposedly, the product made meets requirements to have only one faulty product for every so many made. That doesn't mean that manufacturer didn't gundeck their records to make the deal.

It just goes to show, that you get what you paid for. Cutting costs, just to stay competitive can bite you.

In open pit mining ammonium nitrate is mixed with petroleum products such as diesel and used engine oil for large scale blasting.

Once the chemical combination is complete the resultant compound is extremely unstable and can easily be detonated by a small mechanical impact.

I would think the last place ammonium nitrate should be used would be in any portable equipment that is subjected to vibration, sudden mechanical shocks, and varied petroleum products are present.

Unstable propellant+humidity(open window or top down during rain)+texting while driving(cell phone between face and airbag)=?

Why don't they just make the covers out of plastic instead of metal??

http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2014/hien-tran-death-air-bag-honda-accord.shtml

..."Two deaths and more than 30 injuries have been linked to ruptures in Honda vehicles, and complaints received by regulators about various automakers blame Takata air bags for at least 139 injuries, including 37 people who reported air bags that ruptured or spewed shrapnel or chemicals. In one incident in December 2009, a Honda Accord driven by Gurjit Rathore, 33, hit a mail truck in Richmond, Va. Her air bag exploded, propelling shrapnel into her neck and chest, and she bled to death in front of her three children, according to a lawsuit filed by her family."...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/business/air-bag-flaw-long-known-led-to-recalls.html

http://money.cnn.com/2014/11/20/autos/takata-airbag-victims/

SolarEagle,

Thanks for the comprehensive account of negligent homicide.

One thing I am not clear on, is this fragmentation due to over-pressure or is this normal for a deployed airbag?

Now I have to adjust to driving with goalie equipment on.

Yes it is rather unsettling, I don't think I can drive without thinking about the airbag going off now.....I don't think you can remove the airbags without some legal repercussions...and possible liability issues......The problem is that the ammonium nitrate when exposed to moisture and temperature swings becomes unstable....this can cause a much more energetic release than originally intended...You can see from the rusted shrapnel that this was exposed to moisture and certainly not airtight....now is this a true average representation, or had this been altered in some way....that's the question...

This sounds like the problems they had with solid fuel rocket propellants and fissures or cracks. The reason they went to the erasure form of pellet.