Kitchen Renovations, Part 2

Crafty idea using the hand truck as a lever.
It's a great feeling, when it's all finally ripped out and you can start the re-building.
Del

In point #1, did you mean sockets when you said circuits? If yes then:-

When I re did my kitchen a few years ago I supplied it with 230 volts from 2 x 3 Phase and eventually I installed 27 sockets.......I do not have the impression I installed too many, it seems about right!!! This does include behind units sockets for washing up machine, oven & Microwave as well......on the top of each cabinet is also a socket for radio, coffee machine or whatever.....many forget that!!!

It would not surprise me to hear that someone installed more, especially if it was a big kitchen.....

Sure, sockets, but don't add too many sockets to a circuit either and make sure to use the right socket for the right circuit wire and circuit breaker. 20a breakers require 20a sockets and use 12/2 or 12/3 wire (typically romex) 15a breakers, use 15 amp sockets and 14 gauge romex.

Also do not forget to use romex staples on the wiring and tack the wires down to the very middle 3.5" side of the wall studs and do so every foot or so. You dont want to put a drywall screw through any wires! Wherever wires pass through a hole in a wall stud (same with copper pipes) it is a code req. to put a metal shield on the 1.5" edge of the stud wherever wires or pipes pass through...also to protect from screw penetration. Very important stuff for how to not let your house flood or catch fire! Don't forget the shielding! Once drywall is up you will never know where all the wires / pipes are and shielding heps prevent ALOT of potential damage now...and later.

You seem to want to pick holes in what I wrote, but you forgot many points on safety (if you want to go for a complete list) yourself:-

Its usually not a question of too much current draw per circuit (we have allowed here up to 16 amps per single phase, controlled by an overcurrent breaker), on any circuit as I have a) heavily rated cables and b) over current breakers for every circuit in the house.

Also I have such things as the oven and the induction hobs on their own CBs, as they each take quite a large current.

All the other sockets are spread on all the the other single phase CBs, so that there should never be a case of too much current on any single CB......but even if there was, only a CB would pop, no wiring would burn!!!

There are 4 separate circuits (CBs) for all of the other sockets....

You neglected to mention any form of over current protection and the number of individual circuits I believe, both are VITAL points to ponder when setting up a kitchen (or any other room for that matter!)

We do have different codes for wiring here as well.....for example we have 16 amps per phase at 230 volts, almost 3.7 Kw per phase maximum. Guessing a little (110VAC at 20 amps?) gives a maximum of 2.2KWs only, so for the same types of machines (power taken will be similar), you would probably need almost twice as many individual CBs......

So for a 110 Volt system, adding extra breakers is even more of a vital necessity to be done correctly to allow proper amounts of mains power, safely available...... you also neglected to mention this point I do believe.....

Also, I have ELCBs on each phase coming into my house, just in case there is any leakage of mains voltage (via a human for example!) to earth, which is another point that many forget (you also I believe in what you wrote neglected to mention such equipment needing to be installed when safety is important, especially where water is concerned) and that is a VERY important point indeed, especially to my mind, if you have children or pets!!

It appears that you seem to think that I have lots of things plugged in all at the same time taking heavy currents, that is simply not true, but I am against long trailing wiring anywhere as it is a further cause for accidents in the kitchen (and other places like workshops!!), so the sockets are spread around to be EXACTLY where they might be needed......I have to say that any kitchen with as few sockets as you mention, is to me very likely to have long trailing leads from time to time - a big no no for me personally!

Which was the reason I posted originally, because for me, in a modern kitchen with lots of electrical devices, that is far too few.....also do not forget that unplugging and re-plugging just wear out the sockets too....

If your kitchen is from the 1950s, and the few appliances are also, then maybe the limited number of sockets you mention are probably enough.......I am sure that many still have such kitchens, here and where you are....but I am sure that they are getting fewer and far between in 2010!!

In my original post I was just trying to make sure that other people reading this blog are made aware that more sockets, properly installed, are often needed in 2010......but each must decide for himself exactly how many and if trailing leads could be a problem or not.....

By the way, our kitchen is not particularly big, around 135 Sq.Ft., I know of plenty of bigger ones (and smaller ones too!)

In a UK kitchen for example, the washing machine and dryer are often also in the kitchen, so they would need some extra circuits just for such units.....

I hope that I have managed to make my standpoint fully clear with regard to a modern kitchen and electrical safety there....have a great day anyway!!

Did I miss something? I've never heard of 1" plywood. The thickest I know of is 3/4".

Wow, a half inch slope in a floor is a huge amount of slope for a dip in the floor. That would be really noticeable and if done by a contractor and obvious flaw that they would be liable for repairing at their own cost, or law suit they would lose. In hard wood or any glossy flooring that would really show up.

In the USA we use a 20a circuit for the kitchen wall outlets. Usually 1 circuit per wall. So each may have 4-6 outlets (two receptacle each) on the circuit. The first in the chain should be a GFCI - Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt receptacle so that any over load down the chain (or on that outlet) will pop the GFI.

This is how my kitchen is set up with 7 circuits.

20a - 4 outlets (for toaster / blender etc)

20a -4 outlets (same..on opposite wall)

20a - dedicated to garbage disposal and washing machine on other side of wall.

20a - Refridgerator

20a - Microwave

50a - stove/oven

15a - light over sink.

PS. -I have no idea what you mean by "pick apart" -- If you just want to show off your efforts and not invite any comment then I suggest getting a blog instead.

2nd PS - To the peanut gallery commenters..who said anything about 1" plywood and yes folks...old homes...and even new ones have unlevel floors. If you are doing the work yourself you get to choose how to level your floor and cabinets. A floor that is only unlevel 1/4" (.25) over 8-10 feet does not necessitate removing the floor to relevel it nor any other drastic repair method like replacing floor joists. If you ever have a contractor say otherwise....FIRE HIM. Only when this is more severe over shorter distances will you see it or feel it. I assure you that a floor baseboard with a .25" height difference over 8-10 feet is not noticeable unless you are the type that likes to lay on your floor while making dinner just so you can critcize someone.

As a contractor I have worked for engineers and scientists on occasion and have seen them freak out over minute 1/16th" inch discrepancies here and there. I assure you..people like this are not the ones you want to do work for and is why so many great contractors become alcoholics; They tire of people who really have no clue.

Best of luck on your project. The floors look sandable / repairable. You could also consider distressing them more as that is a popular look to some but of course depends on your overall design theme which you have not discussed. At the very least I hope you are ditching all the green wall tile! --Cheers.

Had a large earthworks contractor tell me the same thing about 1/4" in a 10 foot section of RCP last week. He felt i was being to picky and misjudged the slope when i observed the stormwater pipe was falling backwards adverse to flow. He measured it and it was less than 1/8 inch adverse slope, but was supposed to be between 1/8 inch and 1/4 inch sloped forward. He felt that standing water in a stormwater pipeline was not that critical, and he was just finishing laying the pipe, concrete collars had not been placed yet.

Any time the slope in any construction can be observed by any owner as extreme, without direct measurements just by looking at it, then either he doesn't have the experience to see such discrepancies or the contractor screwed up and is trying to conserve his profit margins. Contractors will frequently tell you it is not that bad. However, youy need to consider what flooring will be placed on top and room use. Slopes of 1/4 inch in 10 feet would be pretty severe in most environments, but likely not too noticeable on floors to be cover in carpets. Differential slopes across a room of greater than 1/8 inch change in 10 feet are much more severe, as these show substantially in some high gloss surfaces like hard wood, unless some leveling in implemented. If the floor is done by the carpenter of concrete contractor, however, the flooring contractor will not want to handle such extreme leveling at his cost to make up for the poor production capabilities of the carpenter or concrete contractor.

So I have to ask then how would YOU suggest leveling a hard wood floor that was laid 50 years ago? Replace it? remove the flooring, subflooring, shim the joists, at a minimum cost of $5,000. ...or live with it? The home owner, in his orginal post said it didn't appear to be too bad. My assumption is ...he's ok to live with it. However, we can't really make too many realistic assesments without visting his the job site!

P.S. --proper drainage is always critical. :) laser level anyone?

It is a cost benefits analysis for him. One thing to do is try and clear his perspective and take another look considering it 10 years down the line, or even better is to try and consier reselling the property, what the perspective buyers might think. Would the investment be worth it. $5,000 is nothing if you can resell the house for $25,000 more, or not spend the next 20 years pissed off after the exuberation of doing the job yourself wears off. Flooring and surficial aesthetics on a house are much like a hair cut, everything looks great when you have a pretty lady playing with your hair and brushing it and all, but as soon as you wash it and try to comb it you notice every defect. some defects get noticed once in a while and generally overlooked there after and some become annoying over time and stand out more and more (especially surface defects in high use areas).

I totally agree with you on the noticing defects over time issue. I always say do it right the first time! However not everyone has the means to do so and thus compromise and creativity were born. This was one reason why I had said he could always go for the "distressed" look. ;)

On another note I find it funny how much culture and design shifts every 10-20 years and how it effects the average homeowner. Home walls with smooth drywall was in style and then most all new home and remodels went with a textured orange peel which migrated to knock down with bull nose corners and then an even wider / smoother knowck down and now "mod" homes are going back to smooth drywall (which is a real pain in ass to get right too!). Another thing I don't get is why does eveyone one loooove white trim around their doors and baseboards. Nothing shows dirt faster! I have dark distressed wide plank floors and espresso trim and I really love it. its alot easier to keep clean. As they say..form follows function.

Ok I think we all have to post pictures of our own kitchen remodel (before and after) and tell how much it cost.

My kitchen has been done for months now and the slope in the floor isn't noticeable at least not to me. I did not want to try to level the subflooring and even getting under this floor to get to what you would need to level it would be quite a task. Perhaps my use of the word slope was confusing. The floor drops half an inch over a 20 foot span.

I am not a contractor but I looked over your suggestions and most although not all of them I did follow during the process although I didn't really go into many of those details in my blog. My kitchen has 7 circuits, I have not had any problems running any appliances I want at once.

All I can say is that I am happy with the outcome, and to me thats what counts the most.

As to the chimney, have it inspected before using it for a wood burning stove. Few chimneys of that vintage had liners, and even if it did, the liner may be in poor shape. After all the work you are putting into this house, you don't want to burn it down.

I forgot to add, make sure that there is no other appliance using that flue

It is lined with a ceramic liner that appears to be in good shape. Its not being used by anything else, but I have no plans to ever use it.

My house used to be more than one house and has 4 chimneys of which only one is in use by the hot water heater.