How to Get Rid of the Incandescent Light Bulb

Tried them, they worked great for about a month and a half. Then they would turn on dim and take several minutes before reaching full luminance. That just doesn't work when you get up in the middle of the night and head for the john. You kick the dog and wet in the floor... I'll stock up on Thomas Edison's version.

Wow, How much light do you need to find your......'dog'? I been using compacts for over a year in public buildings and they are going strong. Less time on ladders and complaints when a bulb used to go.

Blind people don't need lights, whats your problem? Its all a matter of prospective.

He can't hear you. His Braille screen is broken.

Start small. Get an LED night light. Put it by the mop. Put the dog outside. Life consists in the little things.

-e

Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. That's the way the free market worked. It worked better than anything else ever tried.

Then came the smiling politicians, wielding the same force that brings us oppression, slavery, genocide and war. They're only here to help us, they coo.

Well, I have met more than my fair share of politicians (trust me), and you really want to get them out of stuff; not into more stuff.

I built a better mouse trap...what happened? along came better mice.

In time they were bullet proo. :)

I think the flourescent boom will be short lived as Light Emitting diodes recently passed them in lumens/watt.

Those with an interest look up cree

http://www.cree.com/

and leds magazine

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/

Now that LEDS have taken the high ground they will wipe out fluorescents over the next 10 years or for new installs. Incandescents are doomed

As with all new technologies the issues of customer resistance and cost will control the rate of replacement of incandescent bulbs.

Here in the UK I can buy 4 bright incandescent bulbs for £1, or one very dim low energy fluorescent, which flashes, hums, and is slow to brightness, or for £20 I can buy one very dim LED set.

In view of these costs and limitations are we really surprised that the general customer would rather stay with what he knows?

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

Well, here in Canada the fluorescent bulbs are better than that. You can also buy LED based replacements for dual and quad 40 watt fluorescent lamps. They costs a lot more, but a friend of mine is installing them in his walk in coolers and freezers as they do not need special high output ballasts to operate at below zero F. In addition, they add a lot less heat to the cooler and in walk in coolers where he has 6" foam walls, floors and ceilings this is important in the sizing of the refigeration unit.

LEDs are the future. They have recently turned the lumnes per watt corner and now they are getting cheaper by the week as they optimize manufacturing costs.

Read deep into the manufacturers section of LEDS magazine, it will be an eye opener.

HughMattos writes: "Here in the UK I can buy 4 bright incandescent bulbs for £1, or one very dim low energy fluorescent, which flashes, hums, and is slow to brightness, or for £20 I can buy one very dim LED set."

-----

Bet you drink warm beer. Lucas Electric makes refrigerators, too.

-e

Sir, No I do not drink warm beer - or cold for that matter - since I prefer to keep my brain going as well as possible for as long as possible. At 50 I already notice that the " little grey cells" are a good bit slower than they were at 25. Life is far too short to waste time by getting drunk.

Here in the UK, Lucas (Electric) make car and aerospace parts, not fridges. That is left to the Italians and the Eastern Europeans etc.

My point was not that we should not try to promote better use of energy, but that at present it is not surprising if the general public are reluctant to go out and spend their money on products which are not ( yet) good enough to meet their expectations.

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

Compact fluorescents have served me long and well; I have no complaints. And although a little wine at mealtime is good for the heart (and brain, too, as it tends to mellow one a bit and thereby decrease blood pressure and the chance for a stroke), a guiness or a glass of wine on occasion does not necessarily lead one to falling-down-drunkenness. Moderation is the key. And yes, my post was definitely tongue-in-cheek - in spite of the fact that my old MG featured an electrical system by the Prince of Darkness.

-e

I have replaced most of the incandescent bulbs in my house with compact fluourescents (CF) that I bought in 6-packs at Lowe's for $9.99 plus tax. In Texas, that works out to about $1.80 each--approximately 2x to 4x the cost of typical incandescents. I have purchased the 60W and 100W equivalents.

The CFs use about 26% of the energy that the comparably bright incandescent bulb uses. Were I to do the math, the extra cost is probably more or less in the range of the energy savings over their lifetime, however, in my experience, they are lasting longer, too. I've been using them for 2 years and, in that time, only 1 out of 36 has stopped working. Thus, the longer life further offsets the extra cost and I don't have to jack with replacing lights as often as before (I have a 5 BR house with too many multi-bulb fixtures). I even use them in my ceiling fan fixtures and have not had any problems.

We leave a bathroom light on for my 4-year-old. It's a 60W equivalent CF. Other lights that are left on frequently (my wife insists on filling the house with light whether she needs it or not) are almost all CF. Though they always light slowly the first time, they seem to come on acceptably quick after that. I have not had the dimming or flickering problems that others have reported.

Also, as I live in a part of the world that involves a heavy A/C load, I suspect that another advantage of the CF is the reduced heat contribution. It would be interesting to see an analysis that took in all the factors. I suspect that the CFs would enjoy a modest cost advantage, all things considered.

We have been using compact fluorescents for about 12 years here in our home (USA).

Prices initially were in the range of US$ 9 (often on sale for US$ 7). Now they are about 3 for about US$ 8 or 6 for US$ 15.

We have not experienced the hum problem in the CFs but have had to replace ballasts in 2 conventional fluorescent fixtures.

There does seem to be a significant difference between manufacturers (AND I am beginning to believe between specific designs/part numbers from a specific manufacturer) in terms long light output stability, operating life, absence of flicker, and output intensity during "warm up". Some P/Ns are sensitive to room temperature for start up performance. Again, ALL vary by manufacturer/model dependent.

So far we have found GE the best over all. However, they may have introduced some lower grade CFs ... some of the new ones do not seem to be getting the life and output stability that the earlier ones were. Life has generally been high with the GEs, 5 years 24/7 in a few applications.

My hope is to migrate to LED as soon as the lumination levels are high enough at a price we are willing to consider (probably $US 9 or less for 100 watt equivalent incandescent).

See here: www.elecosn.com

Here are dimmable LED Bulb, and LED incandescent bulb

...

I think the fluorescent boom will be short lived as Light Emitting diodes recently passed them in lumens/watt...

Right on. Only both are versions of the same: excited gas discharge or excited fluorescent powder. Cellphones have LED photo-flash which is surprisingly bright. Cellphones indicated the way to so much that followed

Ultraviolet, Blue and white LEDs An ultraviolet GaN LED.

Blue LEDs are based on the wide band gap semiconductors GaN (gallium nitride) and InGaN (indium gallium nitride). They can be added to existing red and green LEDs to produce white light, though white LEDs today rarely use this principle.

The first blue LEDs were made in 1971 by Jacques Pankove (inventor of the gallium nitride LED) at RCA Laboratories.^[1] However, these devices were too feeble to be of much practical use, and it was not until 1993 that high brightness blue LEDs became possible through the work of Shuji Nakamura at Nichia Corporation.^[2]

By the late 1990s, blue LEDs had become widely available. They have an active region consisting of one or more InGaN quantum wells sandwiched between thicker layers of GaN, called cladding layers. By varying the relative InN-GaN fraction in the InGaN quantum wells, the light emission can be varied from violet to amber. AlGaN aluminum gallium nitride of varying AlN fraction can be used to manufacture the cladding and quantum well layers for ultraviolet LEDs, but these devices have not yet reached the level of efficiency and technological maturity of the InGaN-GaN blue/green devices. If the active quantum well layers are GaN, as opposed to alloyed InGaN or AlGaN, the device will emit near-ultraviolet light with wavelengths around 350-370 nm. Green LEDs manufactured from the InGaN-GaN system are far more efficient and brighter than green LEDs produced with non-nitride material systems.

Most "white" LEDs in production today are based on an InGaN-GaN structure, and emit blue light of wavelengths between 450 nm – 470 nm blue GaN. These GaN-based, InGaN-active-layer LEDs are covered by a yellowish phosphor coating usually made of cerium-doped yttrium aluminum garnet (Ce³⁺:YAG) crystals which have been powdered and bound in a type of viscous adhesive. The LED chip emits blue light, part of which is efficiently converted to a broad spectrum centered at about 580 nm (yellow) by the Ce³⁺:YAG. The single crystal form of Ce³⁺:YAG is actually considered a scintillator rather than a phosphor. Since yellow light stimulates the red and green receptors of the eye, the resulting mix of blue and yellow light gives the appearance of white, the resulting shade often called "lunar white". This approach was developed by Nichia and was used by them from 1996 for manufacturing of white LEDs.

The pale yellow emission of the Ce³⁺:YAG can be tuned by substituting the cerium with other rare earth elements such as terbium and gadolinium and can even be further adjusted by substituting some or all of the aluminum in the YAG with gallium. Due to the spectral characteristics of the diode, the red and green colors of objects in its blue yellow light are not as vivid as in broad-spectrum light. Manufacturing variations and varying thicknesses in the phosphor make the LEDs produce light with different color temperatures, from warm yellowish to cold bluish; the LEDs have to be sorted during manufacture by their actual characteristics. Philips Lumileds patented conformal coating process addresses the issue of varying phosphor thickness, giving the white LEDs a more consistent spectrum of white light.

Spectrum of a "white" LED clearly showing blue light which is directly emitted by the GaN-based LED (peak at about 465 nanometers) and the more broadband stokes shifted light emitted by the Ce³⁺:YAG phosphor which extends from around 500 to 700 nanometers.

White LEDs can also be made by coating near ultraviolet (NUV) emitting LEDs with a mixture of high efficiency europium based red and blue emitting phosphors plus green emitting copper and aluminum doped zinc sulfide (ZnS:Cu, Al). This is a method analogous to the way fluorescent lamps work. However the ultraviolet light causes photodegradation to the epoxy resin and many other materials used in LED packaging, causing manufacturing challenges and shorter lifetimes. This method is less efficient than the blue LED with YAG:Ce phosphor, as the Stokes shift is larger and more energy is therefore converted to heat, but yields light with better spectral characteristics, which render color better. Due to the higher radiative output of the ultraviolet LEDs than of the blue ones, both approaches offer comparable brightness.

The newest method used to produce white light LEDs uses no phosphors at all and is based on homoepitaxially grown zinc selenide (ZnSe) on a ZnSe substrate which simultaneously emits blue light from its active region and yellow light from the substrate.

A new technique just developed by Michael Bowers, a graduate student at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, involves coating a blue LED with quantum dots that glow white in response to the blue light from the LED. This technique produces a warm, yellowish-white light similar to that produced by incandescent bulbs.^[3]

I just received a shipment of 100 ea very nice 3 mm ultraviolet, green, and white LEDs from The LED Shoppe for just 12 cents apiece. Not only cheap, but shipped free from Hong Kong in just five days. Not bad. Not bad at all.

-e

You did very well on those LEDs since 200 X 12 cents makes only $24 which is probably about the same as the shipping cost alone which we would pay INSIDE Europe !

But tell us all - what are you planning to do with 200 green and white LEDs?

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

The 100 white LEDs are going into a strobe light. The 100 near-UV and 100 green LEDs I will be using to pump a 3" x 1/4" pink, 0.05% Cr₂O₃, ruby rod whose absorption cross-section in the visible spectrum peaks at 410 nm and 550 nm, respectively. I'm studying the lifetime of the ruby R1 emission line at 694.3 nm.

-e

For your edification (and viewing pleasure), I've taken a photo of the rod being illuminated by one 410 nm and one 535 nm LED and the resulting emission at 694.3 nm (scarlet red):

-e

Europium,

That phrase reminds me of the ancient television variety show - The Good Old Days - of the 1970s. Ever seen it?

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

No, I'm more of a Monty Python fan. Did you want to have just one argument (£1/5 min), or were you thinking of taking a course of ten (£8)?

Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.

-e

(With LED lights to get rid of incandescent light bulbs.

LED THE ONE WAY

In regards to politicians, I think the immortal words of Pogo best sums it up: "We have met the enemy and he is us." Politicians dont improve anything; especially Al Gore.

Yep. The Free Market innovates, creates and distributes on a voluntary basis. It works. We know that. It makes people successful, equal in rights, free, healthy...it makes a better life than any other way (see USSR, et al.).

Politicians can only limit, corrupt, and use their inherently dangerous armed force to do what their friends ask of them.

It is another totally ridiculous effort on the part of politicians to pretend they are doing something worthwhile, while they dodge doing anything about the big important (and controversial)issues.

Every bulb in my house is a regular or compact fluorescent, except those that are incandescent for a reason: Full range dimming capability, the fixture is too small to accommodate a fluorescent replacement, or like an articulated desk or workshop light, the fluorescent is too big or too heavy. Ditto for my drop lights in the garage, the refrigerator, range hood, oven, microwave and a few decorative lamps that require specialized bulbs. I also use incandescents in my tool sheds, because I only have the lights on for a few minutes at a time, and in the cold weather the fluorescents take longer to warm up than I have them on.

The last thing we need is politicians thinking for us on such simple, personal matters.

Greg

I enjoyed all the opinions about this topic, but I'd like to add some comments:

I am sure that CF will take over on the immediate future, anyway LED´s will command after that. Certainly, there are some applications where incandescents will be very hard to replace; for instance the automotive market, or the low voltage artistical lighting (like in museums, expo fairs, commercial, outdoors building lighting, just to name a few)

Along with energy savings, as engineers, we have to consider other issues like power factor (today, there are ballasts with a FP almost equal to 1), harmonics generation, and that all flourescent lamps irradiate UV light, and, after you dispose off your CF's, that tubes are coated with several metal oxides powder that may harm the skin

I think we better should wait until LED´s are cheap enough prior to ban incandscents, because CF´s are not the best replacement (they are not completly environment friendly)

I do not know wher "GUEST" is based but here in Europe the LED is fast taking over as the lighting method of choice for the car industry.

An LED array is more reliable and with a good 12Volt DC source of power is ideal for cars.

However, I agree that the incandescent should not be banned, just a little tax put on it as an incentive to buy newer technologies. We could then use that tax revenue to help research into better, brighter LED arrays.

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

Actually, I've studied the direction of global policy for quite a while, and I've concluded that policy makers will mandate by gunpoint that we bask solely in the light of their brilliance, benevolence and piety.

Do I detect a note of satire in that reply?

Or is it just healthy scepticism?

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

Sir, it is with only the most sincere respect and admiration for our political class that I suggest...nay, hope...that they take from us that folly we call "choice."

(careful...they may be reading this)

For too long have we suffered under the delusion called "freedom;" it is time we restore the proper hierarchy with humble gratitude for those who use force on our behalf.

(wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

From now on I'll have only what politicians have deemed safe and appropriate. And if the lights don't work, well then, I apparently need more sleep so that I can work more productively! That's why we have Daylight Saving Time, right?

AndyHorning wrote: "...we bask solely in the light of their brilliance, benevolence and piety"

.....

Such as it is. Even starlight is blinding in comparison.

PSSST, Wanna buy some blackmarket light bulbs, really hot ones....:)

Really?, are LEDs good enough to light up the road at night, or under foggy conditions, or in wintertime?, I mean good enough to replace a good halogen car lamp?, think a little bit about this

Look here

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/Vehicles

In Europe we have the new pedestrian impact regulations for cars. Figures show that more people are killed by cars than in cars now since our car designers have made accidents IN cars so much safer with ENCAP testing etc .

Hence the car designers are having to put the lighting manufacturers on the spot to develop smaller brighter lights (also soon lights which turn with the vehicle steering etc ) so that the bumper / fender line can be low enough to ensure that even a child goes onto the bonnet / hood not under the vehicle. By the way, the bonnet / hood must also be soft enough not to kill the child when their head hits the metal, hence the specification of explosives under the bonnet to lift it off the engine before impact witht he pedestrian!

If you can work out all that then a set of LED lights seems quite straightforward,

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

Dear Guest, where have you been the last few years - the only decent car bulbs are not halogen but Xenon.......and high power LEDs for car headlights will be appearing within the next 12 months......

Hugh; At 50 either you have led a sheltered life or you are gullible. Taxes do not go to where they were intended. Somewhere along the way there is always a politican with his hand out to finance his pork barrel project, and there goes the money that was supposed to finance research of a better type of lighting. I agree we need more efficient lights,appliances and heating sources, but adding more taxes onto an already over taxed econemy is not going to get us any closer to that end. Anyway the industries have always supported their own R&D not been sponsered by government handouts, Except for Chrysler.

Clearly the world is different when seen from the US.

All our energy from renewables are only ecomomic because of a per unit ( Kwhr) subsidy which we pay from our taxes. Thus if someone wants to generate wind turbine power, say, but the accountant says the operating cost is 10 pence per Kwh when the grid buying price is 4pence, well that is fine because the taxpayer will stump up 8 pence so that is a healthy kind of profit.

Taxes do work to dissuade the buyer from one product to another, but you are right, the treasury does tend to take rather a big slice for themselves - but hey, if half the employees in this fair isle are civil servants than some one must pay them.

Hugh Mattos

Chartered Engineer

I wish the world view were different from the USA. The nation that started as a revolt against authoritarian taxation, litigation and regulation now has more of all that than all the other nations on earth...combined...over all time!

Our federal income/payroll tax code is now up to 60,000 pages. Even Charles Dickens and all his Bleak House thoughts never dreamed of such perversely thick and circuitous pharisee-topping legalism. Nobody can know the law.

And of course y'all know that we're the Imperialist Mercantile Empire now, when our guiding principle was "Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none!"

We are not the light of the world. I'm hoping that LED's work better.

Just wait until I finish my Dark Emitting Diode.....:)

Try using a FED - a Flame Emitting Diode. It's really quite easy. All you need is a two-terminal device and plenty of voltage.

-e

Now THAT was funny. Thanks. I needed the laugh..."LOL," as the whippersnappers say.

Of course the world is different when seen from the US. Like, you are not only to our east, but you're ahead of our time! (sheesh! Do I have to explain everything?! )

-e

Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that you can see past your own nose?

In reading history books, I've acquired the assumption that nobody ever looks beyond their own nose. Am I wrong?

andyhorning asks: "Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that you can see past your own nose?"

-----

I can indeed, Sir! But the actual range depends on which I eye use.

-e

They now have LED light heads that you can adjust the white balance curve on to make them suitable for museums dispalys etc, that need "true" daylight.

Sadly this obvious thing that has been done with filament lights for decades has been granted a patent with LEDs and they sue anyone in sight who does the same thing

I have tried them too. A little slow to reach full brightness, especially in cold. I bought a whole 9 pack at Wal-Mart and can't use them because the 60Hz flicker gives my wife a headache. I installed some without telling her and when she went into the rooms with them she started getting a headache. Might be some compensatory thing as she is blind in one eye. Long bulbs bother her too, though not as much for some reason. Wish the screw-ins had high freq ballasts.

Actually I guess that would be 120Hz flicker....

My favourite cfu is the ones that has a day/night swich. I use them on the outside of the house and they are great, sast longer and I don't have to worry about forgetting to switch them off...or on for that matter... Can't wait to see the development of new LED products. Bye bye Incandescent light bulb... I enjoyed you, but we have to move on now.

I read the article in the Toronto Star [Canada link] Feb 27. Other than Julia Langer of the WWF (my cousin, **blush**), the others mentioned are famous for their opinions not being worth a rat's ass (hope that's standard English terminology for 'zero'.) Interestingly, one of the chief virtues mentioned is the lowering of electricity rates. That may take place in Australia; but it can't ever happen in Canada, where the norm is government greed. If the rates become cheaper on the electricity production side, the government will absorb the profits obtained by either maintaining the current cost of electricity provision (unlikely), or actually find a way to justify increased costs to the end-users because of the new bulb in general use (very likely). As a result of this practice, you will find Canadians in general slow to make the changeover to the new bulb; because ironically, they don't want to spend more on electricity than they now do by using the more expensive old technology.

Also, the incandescent bulb did not spring from the loins of Edison. He purchased a Canadian patent and then spent time developing his contribution--the tungsten filament.

If one were to search for ways to get rid of the incandescent bulbs, they have one huge advantage over the fluorescents --although not to most of us--

Incandescent bulbs are edible. Circus side-show geeks eat them for their audiences.

Perhaps the article's writer (who strangely uses the same writing technique as Comic Book Guy) should try one. With ketchup.

Mark

Mark suggests: "Perhaps the article's writer (who strangely uses the same writing technique as Comic Book Guy) should try one. With ketchup."

-----

Not if he lives in Quebec. Ketchup is an English condiment.

-e

PS: I really like your writing style. Ever thought of writing your own column? Lord knows the Toronto Star could use some class.

"Not if he lives in Quebec. Ketchup is an English condiment."

I hope the above comment was meant purely as a (poor) jest.......it is no wonder that resentment still exists between the Canadian French and English speakers when such comments are aired......

You also show your ignorance in other areas too, as you are completely wrong anyway about the word "Ketchup", that is an American word, that of course we also understand in England, but generally we always call it "Tomato Sauce"......

Its about time that you all just regard yourself as Canadians and put the past away, its just got too childish for words......and I see no reason for such comments in such a fantastic Blog like CR4. We should all try and be above all nationalistic thoughts and try and be international ambassadors, helping each other over and above race, tongue, colour or creed.

In fact we should all be like that in all our dealings with our fellow man, even when not online.......

From myslf, I would ask you to please refrain completely in the future from such comments and thoughts that might be declared as "fun" by yourself, but are really "under the belt" digs directed at other people of the same nationality.

GROW UP!!

Andy, that was a needlessly hostile retort. Perhaps you should listen to your own admonitions. You could just say something like, "please be careful about such comments, as some of us may take offense," and leave it at that.

All of us have hot buttons. The real problem isn't with those who push them.

I was poking fun at those Quebecians (not all of them, by any means, but at the bad apples who make the rest look bad) who do have issues with english-speaking peoples and their customs (and their condiments), who would like to secede from Canada and retreat into their own, superior bubble, and who are intolerant of anyone who isn't of French ancestry. They are the ones to which you should be directing your overly hostile remarks. Laugh a little. You'll live longer.

-e

The French have a word for Les Anglais, we are called "rosbifs", from the Roast Beef we like so much, but the use of these terms is past generational.

Catsup is pronounced ketchup, I do not know why.

Worcestershire sauce is pronounced wooster sauce, another thing I know not why.

Some word shrinkage going on.

Early origins

Ketchup existed before anyone outside the Americas had ever seen a tomato. Originally this sauce was made out of pickled fish. It originated in Eastern Asia; the word ketchup is used in Chinese, Malay and Indonesian (e.g., kecap manis - traditional spelling 'kitjap manis'). English and Dutch sailors brought the Asian ketchup to Europe, where many flavourings, such as mushrooms, anchovies and nuts, were added to the basic fish sauce. Whether the tomato was also added to ketchup in England is not certain, and it is likely that this important event first happened in the USA.

[edit] Tomato ketchup

By 1801 a recipe for tomato ketchup was printed in an American cook book, the "Sugar House Book".^[1] In 1824 a ketchup recipe appeared in The Virginia Housewife, an influential 19th-century cookbook written by Mary Randolph, Thomas Jefferson's cousin.

As the century progressed, tomato ketchup began its ascent in popularity in the USA, influenced by the American enthusiasm for tomatoes. Tomato ketchup was sold locally by farmers. A man named Jonas Yerks (or Yerkes) is believed to be the first man to have made tomato ketchup a national phenomenon. By 1837 he had produced and distributed the condiment nationally. Shortly, other companies followed suit. F. & J. Heinz launched their tomato ketchup in 1876.

Small packets of ketchup and mustard

Heinz tomato ketchup was advertised: "Blessed relief for Brother and the other men in the household!"

The Webster's Dictionary of 1913 defined "catchup" as a "table sauce made from mushrooms, tomatoes, walnuts, etc. [Written also ketchup]."

Modern ketchup emerged in the early years of the 20th century, out of a debate over the use of sodium benzoate as a preservative in condiments Harvey W. Wiley, the "father" of the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S., challenged the safety of benzoate. In response, entrepreneurs, particularly Henry J. Heinz, pursued an alternative recipe that eliminated the need for that preservative.

Prior to Heinz (and his fellow innovators), commercial tomato ketchups of that time were watery and thin, in part due to the use of unripe tomatoes, which were low in pectin. They were also less vinegary than modern ketchups; by pickling ripe tomatoes, the need for benzoate was eliminated without spoilage or degradation in flavor. But the changes driven by the desire to eliminate benzoate also produced changes that some experts (such as Andrew F. Smith^[2]) believe were key to the establishment of tomato ketchup as the dominant American condiment.

Until Heinz, most commercial ketchups appealed to two of the basic tastes: bitterness and saltiness. But the switch to ripe tomatoes and more tomato solids added savoriness, and the major increase in the concentration of vinegar added sourness and pungency to the range of sensations experienced during its consumption. And because the elimination of benzoate was also accompanied by a doubling of the sweetness of ketchup, a balanced stimulation of all five types of taste buds produced an almost gestalt effect.^{[citation needed]}

In the past, ketchup was produced from fresh tomatoes after harvesting. Vacuum evaporation made it possible to turn tomatoes into a very thick tomato paste that is easy to store at room temperature. This enables a factory to produce ketchup throughout the year.

My remarks were addressed to anyone and everyone who propagates, even in a fun fashion, racial or political intolerance, I do not regret a single word.

If it does not apply to you, then you have no reason to be upset with my words either.......think about it!

Who appointed you judge, Mister, of who should and should not say what?

-e

Are you saying that you would only respect an appointed judge's decision? and that without some one of this ilk, you feel free to propogate racist/political comments!

I feel that anyone and everyone should have the right to question and remark on such insensivity that you display....ignoring such things is wrong, look how Hitler developed because nobody felt it was their job to stop him before it was too late.

I do my little best to stand up for the rights of anyone who needs assistance, I feel that everyone should do their best for his fellow man.

If and when I meet my maker, I can look him straight in the eye and know that I did my best.

I do things my way, as I am sure you do too, we just are 180° out of phase in our respective thinking.....it will probably never ever change either.......thank God I don`t have you as a next door neigbour.......you sound like a great reason to move somewhere else!! That is if you don`t move first!!

I am signing off from this Blog as its getting too immature for me, have fun on your own.

Social comments. First get your facts straight, then distort 'em as you please.

-e

Let him go. Poor fellow has taken the Cool Aid of modern fascism and hates free speech. Such rigid, phariseical conformity is for those who can't handle freedom. He wants a dictator, and he'll likely get one good and hard.

If we demand that our lawmakers keep spitting out more prohibitions like watermelon seeds (no trans fats, no incandescent lights, no talking about condiments), we'll have our Caligula/Nero/Stalin/Pol Pot/whatever as well.

It's our default state, after all.

I say we screw in whatever kind of lightbulb we want, keep it running in laughing defiance of Gore/Kyoto, and thus keep the fascists in the shadows.

You're right, of course, but I'm left wondering what in the world does a person like that write once he runs out of hyperbole.

-e

run out? Hyperbole eternalis

I charge my kids 10% of the electricity bill so they are telling me to switch off the lights.

getting rid of them easy

have politicians keep doing the "wtf "job they do

make new regulations up and just keep all the technicians in school

about all the new stuff

busy all the time ;so school will never seem to end like it does now..

when you run out of money

and our mind will be so occupied just trying to salvaged our crashing computer systems with the magically disappearing suppliers we will forgot how

then if anyone does finish school ;undercut all the new entries with lower paid workers

take the money from your current bulbs

let politicians redistribute the funds to combat their new overnight,overweek ...

worker problem "insurrection"

the guys handling that account lose your money with your current supplier

who drops you like a rock in the pond;now you can only get an account at the new bulb store

next

have everyone take the standard 20 yr old gov test

send all the bulbs overseas;so what if we make them

give people who dont speak your language in your country online tech jobs and they ll send in the new bulbs ,after all what do they care about america