Who Pays for Bad Coatings?

FPL should pay. It sounds like they bought into this idea and recommended it without doing their homework...............what were they thinking?

Ironically, they could have done this way faster and cheaper, without failure, by applying a couple of very light fog coats of flat exterior white or light colored paint, rather than trying to completely seal the roofs with elastomeric paint. This would have changed the color and increased reflectivity, while still allowing the shingle roofs to breath.

Depends on whether it's an application problem or an engineering issue.

However, it really just sounds to me like not enough testing was done in the first place.

Anyway. Good for the lawyers. People will sue FPL. FPL will sue contractors and suppliers. Contractors and suppliers will sue FPL, and so on and so on.

If you look at it through a lawyers eyes, it doesn't matter who should pay..........but who can pay?

That would be FPL. Going after the defunct original contractor............or any of the other contractors involved, wouldn't bring in any money. The suppliers, while happy to sell the elastomeric, never would have been stupid enough to guarantee it on roofing shingles.

The lawyers always win.

I've actually changed the color of roofs with watered down exterior flat paint. A couple of very light, spray applied passes does the trick. It works great, no problems or call backs.

They should have called me, I could have started at the southern tip of Fla., and been home in time for retirement.

Hi Marat,

You are absolutely right that no one made any homework before the legislation went out. The major problem is the big difference in elasticity of the asphalt shingles and the elastomeric roof coating. Asphalt is more elastic when temperature rise or high but not the elastomeric or very little. There is no problem with breathing. Asphalt and elastomeric do not breath. The real problem is different elasticity. One, the asphalt develop with heat and become rigid when temperature is turning cold. Elastomeric coatings don't change so much, so curling and other defects arrive.

Elastomeric coatings are made to be applied on metal, PU foam, insulation sheets, and concrete roofings. Conclusion: FPL needs to learn about coatings, and must pay!

Have a Happy New YConclusion, ear, Gil.

You're right gil. When I said breath, I just used it as a catchall word, meaning, to leave the shingles exposed to the air, as opposed to sealing them in with elastomeric.

Good point.

Shingles have to release any water that comes in the side slots, therefore you can't just slop sealant on them and seal the bottom edge. If you're just looking for reflectivity, any titanium dioxide paint will do. Sears sells good ones. Spray from TOP of shingles, a couple passes. Then the light-color coat will actually extend the life of the three-tab shingles by reducing peak temperatures.

What makes asphalt shingles expand? The sins radiations, thermal shock, heat expansion.

What makes them curl at the edges? The sun's radiation bakes out the oils / resins over time they become brittle.

If you apply a reflective coating on top of asphalt shingles and the coating is worth it's weight in water, it will reflect enough heat that the shingles will not experience any more thermal shock. We are talking about a coating allowing too much heat past it's surface.

Bonding to capsheet or asphalt roofing is tested to ASTM D-4541 using an Elcometer adhesion tester (commonly referred to as the 'Pull Off' test.). If these coatings are applied by a contractor that does not know what they are doing when it comes to elastomerics; they will not work.

Our coating, Cerama-Tech, is applied to asphalt shingles and rolled roofing. It is applied at 2 gallons per square (100 square feet). It was tested to ASTM D-4541 and the results were a pull off point of between 450 and 500 pounds per sq inch and the separation occurred in the first layer of felt. It becomes a part of the shingle; it does not sit on top like many roof coatings.

Cleaning and preparation of the roof is very critical. The coating might bond to dirt but the dirt is not going to bond to the shingle.

If the coating actually reflects the amount of heat it claims, there should be no more expansion because there will not be any significant amount of heat getting through to the shingle. No further decomposition, no further loss of granules.

One of the worst areas for roofs is Las Vegas, NV. Our coating has been on the roofs of casinos for almost 25 years and is still doing just fine.

One poster said it can seal the shingles at the bottom but (in effect) cause ponding in the area of the fingers on the shingles. That is absolutely correct. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A PAINT OR COATING IS APPLIED TOO THIN. To give a light coat (or a few) light coats of any paint or coating product to asphalt shingles is ridiculous and you are asking for problems.

When it comes to reflective roof coatings, YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

THE SAME GOES FOR CONTRACTORS THAT APPLY THEM.

I have been applying our coating to about everything for 25 years. I have gone up against our competition many MANY times.

www.ct-texas.com

I've got to give you credit hal. Almost every one of your posts is an advertisement for your company. I think you should contact FPL and tell them that you can paint shingles, and provide a 25 year guarantee. They'd probably be very happy to hear from you.

Not only that, but, with your iron clad guarantee, there would be no question as to who would pay in case of failure.

If memory serves me correctly, if you go to their website and look up their approved products, you will find us there. They have known about us for many years.

We give a 15-year warranty when applied by our certified applicators. I am one of three people certified to certify applicators for warranty applications.

We have a contract to coat 100 residential asphalt shingle roofs in Texas. Just waiting for the weather to break so we can do them.

They used an approved product. Are these people on board with the use of your product? (Asphalt Roofing Manufacturers Association (ARMA).

Is the coating you're using an elastomeric product, completely sealing the shingles?

I actually believe that your product works, I'd just like to know how...............plus I enjoy giving you a hard time.

I've considered painting my roof, but if I did, I would strip the shingles off first, and deal directly with the substrate.

Yes. We are an elastomeric coating, 300 - 500% at break point.

I am not aware of any of our certified applicators that are 'on board' with that organization. If that product that was used was approved by them, who approved the contractor that applied it? Or is it a case of that organization approving every product that pays to get approved? I hope not but I do not know.

The material applied to the shingle must maintain an 'Intimate bond' with the substrate.

Cerama-Tech applied on top of asphalt shingles will reduce the radiant heat gain in the hot months by 50% or more. That same top coat will act as a conductive heat barrier in the winter and reduce the heat loss by 28 to 38%.

In new construction Cerama-Tech can be applied to the roof sheathing at a rate of 50 sq ft per gallon. Black felt over that and then new shingles. It will work as a conductive heat barrier, 28 - 38% reduction in heat transfer year round.

OR, it can be applied to the felt paper at the same spread rate, shingles over the top of that, Again, 28 - 38% reducti9on in heat transfer.

The only thing with those two applications, it does nothing to extend the life of the shingles on top that are still getting pounded by the sun's heat energy; they are still deteriorating.

Cerama-Tech on top of the shingles and they will last virtually as long as the building.

www.ct-texas.com

I think what happened in Fla, is that they put enough elastomeric on to coat the shingles solid, but not enough to bridge the spaces and gaps around the shingles. The result being, that as the paint dried, it contracted, thus causing the shingles to curl.

I'm assuming when you do one of these jobs, everything gets back rolled, and the final product is a contiguous coat of material with no breaks, at a fairly high millage. That would lock them down.

My method of using the watered down exterior flat paint works also, but this is only a color coat, the shingles remain porous. I've only done it a couple of times. It really offers no protection at all, but it's a very cheap way to change the color of a roof.

I think the elastomeric that they used in Fla would have worked, but they skimped on material, didn't bridge the shingles, and the millage is probably about 1/4 what it should have been.

If I'm right, the responsibility would fall on the contractors that did a half a$$ job. But finding them and getting money out of them is a whole other issue.

I have tested against other products with ours many times. I cannot speak for theirs but I can tell you what happens to ours if it is not applied correctly.

One thing that our product does right after it is applied is that it 'Tightens up'. As an example of that happening; Older home, redwood shiplap and old painted exterior. A small chip out of the wood, pencil eraser size. Contractor uses caulking to fill and smooth it.

Now, if the contractors painters do not give that caulking enough time (usually an hour to two hours) to dry and form a skin on the outside, our coating will have nothing to 'bite' into and stick to. Ours does not bond to oil, water or silicone. An hour or two after our coating is applied it 'tightens up'. It will open up on top of the damp caulking and expose it. It is a simple fix. Once the caulking is exposed it is again drying. A simple touch up with a brush and this time our product is bonding to dried caulking.

That same 'tightening up' process happens on asphalt shingles too and may very well have been the cause of what happened in FL. If our product is applied to asphalt shingles too thinly, there may not be enough to seal the edges and bond them well to the shingle underneath. Then if it 'Tightens up' it is possible for the shingle to curl at the edges. If applied to shingles too thin, small 'pinholes' will be exposed when it tightens up on asphalt shingles. Sometimes it is very evident to see, sometimes you have to get close enough to see it.

As I mentioned, for ashalt shingles our normal spread rate is 50 sq ft per gallon. That rate can drop down to as low as 35 sq ft per gallon if the shingles ( or capsheet) are quite old, it will simply suck it up like a sponge.

The problem with standard paint is simple, it will oxidize in just a couple years. When that happens, the level of reflectivity will drop down to that of the oxidation which is now the outside (Proprietary surface, around 5% reflectivity). This is why the EPA's ENERGY STAR 'Cool Roof' program requires the testing at one and three years, to see what the reflectivity level is after the point it will oxidize.

This is also why some of the inexpensive products require you to re-coat at two year intervals, their level of reflectivity drops down to next to zero.

This is also why we do not just sell the product to someone, even contractors. I am the person in my area that trains and certifies applicators for specific applications, ie: residential exteriors / interiors, metal roofs and walls, AC units and ducts, etc.. We do not sell the product and send a DVD for you to watch.

If you are not certified by us, we CAN sell it to you but it is with the written understanding you will have ZERO warranty from the factory. The last thing we want to happen is to put some of our product in the hands of unscrupulous contractors who either do not know or do not care.

Hal

www.ct-texas.com

Friends,

About 30 years ago, when polyurethane foam application was in its early stages of sale for roofing, there was a similar problem with many of the top coating materials. I was a sideline observer to the rise and fall of one business in this field, in the Kansas City metro area. I wouldn't be surprised if the problem relates to long-term shrinkage of the coating material, when applied to a substrate that is flexible.

--JMM