Six Reasons Why Physics Is Critical To Contract Machining

Looks like you gave a pretty good response to the question. (I can't immediately think of anything to add.)

Congratulations / thanks!

I hope that changed a few minds.

BTW: I agree that physics should be taught (to lots of people). I think there is room to teach more of physics by alternate methods, today. For example, use more well produced videos of good lecturers, for example, rather than pay a live teacher to do all the lecturing.

(What I mean by well produced is not what Hollywood would consider well produced--I actually mean very spartan by Hollywood standards.)

Similarly, more well produced (again) videos of experiments. Or computer based "simulations" of experiments.

Another good reason to retain physics in high school is: To provide a complete well educated individual. Maybe we should eliminate handwriting because we use computer keyboards and mathematics because we have calculators.

I propose we also slash speech, communications, spelling, grammar, and basic writing skills...

Al u ned is d ablity 2 decode 2days new txting an twitr msgs 2 comuncte. no 1 seem to talk :) to :) nemore. Seems new gens hav made a new languidge.

Wow... that was incredibly hard to do.

Communication is done through texting/facebook/twitter now... Why bother teaching speech, communications, proper writing/reading?

I am pretty sure they are eliminating it. At least the cursive writting part of penmanship.

Where I live, the schools are still teaching the "three R's". My grandkids bring homework home every day and I still get to help them.

oops. sorry for the duplicate post

Back in the early 1990's, I attended a PTA meeting where a first-grade teacher insisted it was no longer necessary to teach spelling because we all have spell checkers on our computers...I think they had already stopped teaching basic arithmetic since all first graders had their own calculators...

How many more years before they declare schooling totally redundant?

My second niece..when she was in primary [elementary] school did not get her spelling corrected as it was considered to have a negative impact on their 'growth' - or put another way..don't correct the kid as they'll get a life long complex ! That was in the late 70's / early 80's !

Now what do we have ? Something I call 'functional illiterates' who don't know how to tell time with an analogue clock, can't spell and can't do simple arithmetic [math] or only with a calculator !

When I was in college in the 'States [similar time frame to my niece's schooling] ..to do our calculations we had to get a rough figure first, note it down, then use the calculator for a more precise answer.

Phil,

Judging by some of the "work" I've seen in QLD Primary schools, the teacher may not have had the ability to actually correct the spelling.

In line with your next post, I remember a teacher sending a sheet home with one of my girls showing what each port or area was famous for, and Port Hedland being listed as a major Wool Exporter (among other errors). When I carpetted the Principal about the errors his response was, "Maybe you should teach the kids!"

For non Aussies Hedland is a massive Iron Ore exporter followed by Salt and Manganese. There are absolutely no wool stores in the place.

You are right there Phil.

I believe that the word "fail" is now no longer used in schools today........something like "intellectually challenged"........that probably okay because they do not understand the meaning of the word anyhow.

You dare not make a child repeat a class because it would have deep psychological effects on the child. As you said it does not matter whether or not the child has a basic understanding of the 3 "R's", pass them at all costs.

Are you saying this is the case in Australia? I know it's true in the U.S.

Unfortunately here in Oz our Government education system legislators seems to look around the world for all the worst ideas and implement them and then ignore the evidence when those approaches are either disproven or proven to be actually harmful.........

That's correct ronseto, I remember reading an article on it not long ago.

Whether this applies to all schools in Australia, I don't really know, my youngest is 40 years old, so it's been a while since I had kids at school.

Personally, I am involved in adult education in the the fishing and maritime industry and I will certainly fail a student if I do not consider them competent in their job. I work in a private RTO (Registered Training Organisation), therefore we have no problem in failing students, not being under government controls.

Hey, you actually fail students. This means that your education has some real value because only some people can obtain a passing grade. Where have I heard this idea before.

Yes it's actually quite good to be able to do that, especially when you know that some these students will actually be in charge of the engineering department on a vessel.

If they don't know their job, relevant to their particular certificate competency, they are going to be a danger to themselves, the vessel and the rest of the crew aboard that vessel...........and I don't really want to attend a Marine Court of Inquiry re loss of life or loss of a vessel...........and the question is asked, "Was this person a competent engineer?" and I know that I could answer, yes.

............but, in answer to your question, YES I actually fail some students heaven forbid!!!!

Unfortunately, we are all dependent on others doing their jobs competently- not just those that chose to go to sea. I think we would all be better off if more people were required to demonstrate competency. Bridges fall, buildings collapse- but these are not the only problems caused by incompetence. Think of the maintenance cost for your vehicle resulting from all the pot holes in the roads, for example.

Recording the fact that someone has failed to meet minimum standards is less costly in the long run than paying for the errors they cause...Besides, if you fail a lot more students, the "stigma" is lessened, and you improve the quality of the students that do get through...

And saith the Board, "It is good"(!)

Great Post! Thanks Milo!

I would add some chemical and biological knowledge: paint, glue, lubricants, poisons (also if metallic), and also material knowledge beyond the metallic (never complete) materials: ceramics and insulators are essential machine components.

I fear we are like Kassandra in the war of ancient Greece against Troy: she knew about what would happen, told everybody about, but nobody liked to hear - until too late.

I have a feeling that we are near a second medieval time where not science and technology will any more govern the western world but occultism and fundamentalism. Many young people believe in fairy-tales about the mighties of crystals and more nonsense that we have seen before. We have to stop this else we will be back to pre-industrial times within 100 years.

RHABE

Very nicely done, Milo.

All too often a board member's desire to remove anything from a curriculum comes from their misunderstanding of the topic. Often this is accompanied with some student they know and care for that is failing the topic. This thread is a perfect example. Had the board member (or who ever posed the question) understood Milo's introduction to how critical (Newtonian) Physics is to a machinist, they would never have asked the question. Possibly the Physics in question was the new Physics of Quantum Mechanics and its many very baffling uncertainties.

This gets back to my proposal I made long ago on another thread. A fundamental problem in todays education is the concept that failure can be obliterated. To put this into a Zen like perspective, without failure there cannot be success. Allow me to put my proposal into this particular scenario. All High School students must take a Physics class but all of them do not have to pass. Those who wish to be machinists or mechanical engineers do have to pass Physics but those students pursuing an acting career do not. Similarly, all students should take some artistic classes but a machinist or mechanical engineer does not have to have a passing grade here. We do not all have the same aptitudes that are part of our nature.

Wait a minute, redfred! Machinists and Mechanical Engineers are ARTISTS of the HIGHEST CALIBER!

If a candidate for these professions can not pass basic artistic classes, maybe they should consider another field, like politics or something...

Who works with the hands is a laborer;
Who works with the hands and the head is a craftsperson;
Who works with the hands and the head and the heart is an artist.
--source unknown

We have seen enough artistry here on CR4 to agree with CWarner, and also to recognize with redfred that the art of engineering may be different from (though in the same spirit as) other arts.

It's never too late.

Whaddayamean, never too late??? Every one listed that I might be interested in has a "Sorry, Sold!" tag on it!

Sorry. I guess I jumped the gun. I just searched and it looked like a good site... looks can be deceiving, eh? And I should know better than to jump the gun. I've been burned too many times that way before. You'd think I'd know better.

Maybe I can make up for it. Check out E-bay. Of course, you'll have to know a bit about makes and models to sort it out. But the prices on some of them look pretty reasonable. And there appear to be more than you would think available. Hey, some of the people I work with haven't even heard of slide rules. Unless some collector drives the price up you might get a decent deal.

I remember the time that...

I needed to do some moderate calculations {say ln(x) level}. I went for my scientific calculator and it was GONE!! So I went to my wifes desk and she had a couple of 4 function calculators, which were of no value to me. I spent about two hours tearing the house apart with no luck. Then I got PISSED! I went to a box and pulled out my Pickett slide rule from my college days, and with paper and pencil, and my trusty slip stick, cranked out my equations. None of the rest of the family know how to use one, so I knew it would be there.

Bill

Nice story...
But doncha know the calculator in accessories on the PC does have scientific functions if you click 'view' there are options for 'programer' 'scientific' and 'statistics'
Del

..........and at least on the old "guessing stick" the batteries do not run out!!

Something to bear in mind, most school teachers have never taken a physics course in their life,and from an economic standpoint it is harder to retain a qualified hard sciences educated college graduate than a soft sciences educated one to teach "sciences". In colleges there is a huge gap between the more rigorous sciences, mathematics and engineer, and other disciplines. Many colleges have been dumbing down the curriculum for decades for degrees in bio-"sciences", social "sciences", education, etc.. However, they are constantly pushing for the maximum allowable course loads for hard sciences and engineering, because they feel the education is necessary for those fields. They actually have different degrees for science and engineering majors (BS) and teaching majors (BA) that differ by a matter of 30 to 50 quarter units (12 units is a full load per quarter). Physics and Chemistry are space intensive courses that require expensive class-specific laboratory space and more time involved than say most any other course in a school. The qualified teachers are hard to find, and the teachers they use tend to hate teaching such courses due to the work load. They do not help get them lowest common elements in the school to pass the minimum required national testing as the student who take such courses are already well beyond that national standard just to meet the pre-requisites for the course. from a short term local fiscal benefits standing, it is better to defer such education off onto the universities to handle as remedial coursework (I understand the UC system already has something in excess of 50% of freshmen entrants having to take remedial courses in science and math just to qualify for the entry level college coursework, so what are a few more in the overall, scheme of things).

Thanks for the Great discussion Guys!

Milo