An American Autobahn? (World Speed Limits)

It would be difficult (if not impossible) for the US to have a no-speedlimit road.

The reason is that way too many US drivers have absolutely no driving skill or discipline.

This is in stark contrast to places like Germany where drivers have much more invested in getting a license and in driving in general.

It is two completely different cultures.

All this is mute as in a few more years automotive black boxes will be mandatory and retrofits soon behind. Insurance companies will latch onto these like white on rice as a means to force drivers to obey speed limits or be subject to higher premiums or more likely, cancellation in extreme cases.

I learned to drive up north in NY...If you can drive on ice for several months out of the year, you can handle a car in pretty much any weather at any speed....The new cars now are much safer at higher speeds than the old muscle cars of yesterday, yet the speed limits have not changed much at all... we did have that 55 mph limit thing for a while, that sucked....but it doesn't really make a lot of sense to build a car that is very comfortable at 150 mph, when the limit is less than half that...so I think the limits should be raised to 100 mph on super highways, when conditions permit....(Are you really going to oil the chain on your bike regularly if all you do is walk it everywhere?) and by the way, 2/3 of drivers occasionally speeding is a conservative est...imo

I don't really see the big deal about speed limits here either. We have a 75 MPH speed limit here in ND on the interstates and I have no issues with that.

I regularly run my F250 Super duty at 75 MPH or slightly higher while pulling a 20 foot flatbed trailer with at times over 10,000 pounds payload on it. My wifes Mercury Grand Marquis can easily run the 75 MPH speed all day as well. how ever that said there are loads of crappy little econo cars I pass when I am on the interstate that have trouble keeping up with the 75 MPH speed simply due to their lack of power and mass to safely handle going that fast.

Some years ago I worked at a company that used Ford Escorts for the work vehicles and I can assure you those under powered and under built POS cars took everything they had to run 75! They were so under powered that on a windy day if you wanted to go over 65 you honestly had to run without the air conditioning just to free up a few extra HP!

The point is that if vehicle standards were set to using vehicles like full sized sedans and full sized pickups I don't see any reason we couldn't have 100 MPH speed limits. However if the standards are set by econo cars and the like driven by cell phone chewing key punching half wits then 35 MPH is still way too fast.

Personally I agree with the German drivers licence mentality of its a privilege to be earned not a right to have and about 2/'s3 of our american population I see on the roads right now should be busted back down to walking and using public transportation. (no bicycles either. Most of those two wheeled idiots still manage to make themselves in road hazards by one method or another.)

In Oz the speed limit for cars drawing a trailer is 80km/h regardless of higher posted limits.

Was a time when there were no speed limits in some places but those days are long gone. Too bad that this freedom was at a time when cars were unsafe at any speed.

I like this discussion so far. Please, allow me to reply--or supply further information.

@AH: Some rental companies were placing GPS in cars that would record speeding. After a few lawsuits, U.S. courts agreed that car companies were violating customer policy. It will be interesting to see if insurance companies can legally outmaneuver such restrictions.

As far as speed variation being a cause of accidents, the IIHS argues, "Both variation and speed are important. Although research conducted in the 1950s on two-lane rural roads indicated that vehicles traveling much faster or much slower than average were more likely to be involved in crashes, involvement in severe crashes increased with speed. The risk of death and severe injury is a direct exponential function of speed, not speed differences."

@SE: 2/3 of drivers self-reported speeding, according to this study. I'd agree that it generally is much more.

@tcmtech: A F250 and Marquis? Whoa. That's a lot of V8 fuel consumption! Some places lower speed limits to reduce fuel consumption. Texas did it. Let me write that again, so you know it's not a typo. Texas did it. I'm surprised they didn't increase the speed limit to burn more fuel, haha.

"@tcmtech: A F250 and Marquis? Whoa. That's a lot of V8 fuel consumption!"

Actually as far as true fuel efficiency goes big engines are always more fuel efficient than smaller ones. They are just moving more mass. If you do a comparison of fuel economy Vs vehicle size and mass you will find that many large sedans are not very far behind many small cars in fuel numbers despite the small cars having in many cases 1/2 the mass and 1/3 the engine power.

Those POS Ford escorts I drove as work vehicles rarely got past the upper 20's to low 30's on the highway which is literally one a few MPG different that the wifes Mercury that can eat them for lunch.

My F250 gets about 9 - 10 MPG driving and 6 - 7 pulling the trailer regardless of how fast or slow I go.

My wifes Mercury used to me mine and I stripped as much of the emissions systems out of it as I could shortly after I got it. Ever since its ran at least mid 20's or better on the interstate at 75 - 80 MPH with 30 MPG not being uncommon.

As far as my concerns on fuel usage go if you cant afford the fuel you cant afford the vehicle and I can afford both!

BTW the pickup runs on propane primarily which is now down to around $1.10 a gallon so even if it got down to 5 MPG I am still not going to whine too much about it.

Interesting comments tcmtech.

I had an 89 Escort GT (read roadlegal gocart). It topped out at 160 km/h (100 mph) in fifth, not much less in fourth. In other words it was fun to drive but no excess HP. Your MPG's sound accurate.

My Duramax 2500 with a 14' cargo trailer- approx. 6,000 lbs- gets better mileage than my wife's old Suburban by itself. It easily runs 20+ US mpg without the trailer on what I'm going to suggest as the closest thing to the Autobahn in NA- HWY 407 in Ontario. Speed limit 100 km/h, tuck in behind a cop doing 125 km/h & just stay back 500 feet & drive for 15 minutes, no cops around someone will pass you doing 149 km/h (at 50 over it's a BIGGGG fine).

You wrote, "@AH: Some rental companies were placing GPS in cars that would record speeding. After a few lawsuits, U.S. courts agreed that car companies were violating customer policy. It will be interesting to see if insurance companies can legally outmaneuver such restrictions."

This is already happening. Progressive insurance offers discounts to drivers that agree to a "black box" installed in their car to track driving habits. This is not limited to speed, but acceleration and deceleration help determine if the driver qualifies as an aggressive driver.

The MAP-21 bill contains a rider that mandates all new cars starting in 2015 will contain event data recorders. These can be used by police to sort out what happened during accidents, but insurance companies are looking closely at this to determine how they can reduce their liabilities. Progressive's voluntary program is simply a pilot program that will determine how successful such data can weed out drivers that are high risk. While the program is voluntary, there is nothing to prevent a private company from mandating such a program as the company writes the policy and the client signs it.

I probably could find many studies more recent than 1950 that establish a credible link between differential vehicle speeds on highways, but I do not have that time.

We know that speed kills, but when a group of cars are traveling at roughly the same pace there is less chance for accidents than when there is a high differential speed between vehicles. That problem is augmented when drivers exercise poor lane discipline, follow too closely, fail to signal lane changes, or misjudge overtaking vehicle's speed when changing lanes.

The problem gets even worse when the vehicle densities goes up. People naturally become more aggressive with speed when there are a lot of vehicles in a group as faster drivers try to weave their way through packs of other slower vehicles.

Another validation to my argument is the way that the Autobahn is structured. There are high speed lanes and there are slower speed lanes. Lingering in the left lane will subject you to fines. The reason is simple. Organizing the differential speeds helps reduce accidents. In the US we do not have such discipline and chaos is th eresult.

Lastly, the Autobahn is physically built for speed, whereas the US highways are not built to the same stringent standards.

I would think if the speed limit were raised, that people causing accidents or involved in accidents, in which they were to blame, would have more restrictions....such as collision avoidance systems mandatory, in other words have their poor driving skills mitigated with technology...Cars from 60 years ago were driving the roads with basically the same speed limits we have today....drive an original 60 year old car on the road, and it seems hard to believe that we live by the same rules as these cars did...When you're goin' 80 mph in a 60 year old car, it feels like the thing is ready to explode, in my car when you hit 80 you have almost no sensation of speed, the difference is night and day....

I had a '53 Chevrolet Belair 2 door Coupe.

I was like driving a boat and looked like an upside down bath tube with chrome

Bench seat in the front, and no seat belts, I felt very loose driving, with every turn or curve the car leaning the opposite way.

I don't have pictures, but it's similar to this, but Green.

But what people forget, is that Driving is not a right, its a privilege.

Just because they can get from point 'A' to point 'B', does not mean they are a good driver, or even know the rules. More less thinking they can drive extreme.

I don't think there will ever be an American Autobahn nor should there be. American drivers have a different mindset compared to European drivers. It has been said that every driver in Italy is a racecar driver. They enjoy driving at high speeds and have the skill to do so, unlike the American driver. Few American drivers have the skills to drive fast. Those who have the skill, are compromised on the road by the majority of drivers without such skills. Teens, old people, handicapped and people with attitudes far outnumber the skilled drivers. Straight-a-way drivers can drive fast, but when it comes to windy roads and curves, the average driver can't handle it. Not only that, the cars themselves can't handle a racetrack condition. Many cars on U.S. roads shouldn't even be on the road due to unsafe conditions. Other countries have more strigent requirements for vehicle safety.

I make it a point to hit 100mph at least once a day. This might be on the interstate or on a back road, and I've been doing it for several years now. I don't do it in my 1997 Dodge Ram pickup, but I do in my two BMWs. No tickets yet, and I know if they catch me, they'll put me UNDER the jail. On the other hand, I know where I can do it safely with little fear of getting caught. I just have this need for speed.

I loved driving in Germany on the Autobahns because of their skill and courtesy. I only had a crappy little turbo diesel rental, capable of a mere 95 mph, and I stayed out of the far left lane. Once, the 6-lane highway narrowed down to two lanes because of construction, but the German drivers merged and blended smoothly and we were through it in a blink. Here, we'd be backed up 10 miles.

What I think we need are graduated drivers licenses and license plates, where you and your car quaify to drive fast. If you pass the necessary schools, you could earn, say, a red plate for driving at speeds up to 100 mph, or a blue plate for speeds up to 85. And we should pay for the privilege--say, $500 a year for the red plate. I'd pay it. It would be a badge of honor, and the state would make a fortune off schools and fees.

To satisfy my need for speed, I go to HPDEs on a regular basis with my BMW M3 and run hot laps on a race track. In fact, I'm going to one this weekend if Hurricane Issac doesn't rain it out.

I know another place where you can do it safely, too. It is called the TRACK!

Safety is not about 'not getting caught', it is about no one getting hurt.

That's where I'm going this weekend. If the Hurricane doesn't hit, that is.

I don't see the need for black box recorders when total control is possible.

Vehicle speeds can be conditionally governed wherever they are. GPS+comms+conditional speed limit database talking to the ECU.

No need to enforce speed limits at all then.

Under this regime you can have your speed lust satisfied wherever and whenever the conditions are deemed to be safe by the database administrators.

Makes owning a fast car a little pointless unless you can get to an unlimited stretch of goat track.

I agree with AH on his points, when i lived in Holland and went on the German autobahn just to see the Dutch drive the same way on the German Highway as in Holland (very unhealthy). As most fast drivers ride huge BMW's and Mercedes Benz's(us?) if they rearend a normal small car, the driver ussualy walks away with a few scratches, but there is mostly nothing left of the rearended car.

And as far as know, on the parts without speed limit, the insurance will not pay if you go over 120 km/h (is it 130 now?).

I live in Texas. I travel to Louisiana often. Their enforcement of speed is a joke as the entire state is nothing but a speed trap. They aren't even embarrassed about it either.

The most effective traffic enforcement I've seen is in Australia, where if you get caught drunk driving or street racing (and, presumably, exceeding the speed limit by an atrocious amount) they crush your car. That tends to put a damper on antisocial driving.

Just a guess, but I bet they don't have a lot of drunk drivers in their jails, like we do. Here in Iowa, we have mandatory jail time for OWIs, and there are so many in the prisons that convicted offenders have to take a number, make a reservation, and wait until a prison spot opens up.

One of the biggest dangers on the highway these days is not speeders--it's distracted drivers, chatting away on their cellphones or texting. Since every modern cellphone has a GPS, why can't the cellphone makers install an app that disables the phone (except for 911 calls) while it's moving?

I believe it was Verizon that approaced the FCC(govt) to have phones rendered inoperable if going in excess of 15 mph back in 2010. The ACLU got involved ( for the pasengers sakethey said) and the whole thing was dropped.

Automated enforcement compliance will come.

Once everything is connected and communicating to everything else we can divest ourselves of the responsibilities of choice and be coddled and led instead. It won't even be possible to break the law unless the failsafes failed(or were tampered with).

Instead of folk defending themselves by declaring that the devil made them do it they could honestly say that the devil let them do it instead.

Do you want chips with that?

Until then they are raking in the big $$$ in fines for driving while (insert device here).

A good american Autobahn would be either I-8 or I-10 from AZ to CA about 200 miles at 75 mph + straight flat road.

The Illinois Turnpike approaching Chicago from the west already is an autobahn. Between the last rest area to the west and Aurora, cars and trucks frequently cruise at 100 mph. I couldn't believe it one day when I was cruising at 100 mph and got PASSED by a local delivery truck! Guess local knowledge of police enforcement really helps.

Then, after Aurora, heading into Chicago, traffic in the left lanes moves at 80-90 mph, all the way to the river, when it finally slows down to enter the city. It's like an autobahn in that slower traffic sort of keeps to the right lanes--but not always.

Chicago-area drivers, especially in the Northwest suburbs, tend to drive 20+ mph over the speed limit whenever they can get away with it. I guess police know that if they get into the traffic stream, they will slow down rush hour traffic and cause massive congestion behind them, so speed limit enforcement is light or nonexistent during busy times. You can get busted late at night or mid-afternoon, though.

I saw this when I used to commute into Philadelphia--the police stayed off the major highways during rush hour, preferring to drink coffee and eat donuts instead of causing traffic jams.

Enforcing the speed limit is more a function of revenue enhancement than improving safety anyway, so the police tend to go out when the pickin's are easy. Rush hour is no time to be writing traffic tickets.

I have one better! I was in the outer Chicago belt and was doing 85 mph and this guy passed me as he was weaving from lane to lane and he had a space saver spare tire on the one rear tire!

He went by me too fast to see if the driver was a crash test dummy.

And why won't they let us have autobahn's in NA.........?

These are the guys that should be off the road!

I was expecting that at any instance, but not only did he exceed my own speed, he exceeded my expectations on life expectancy. :)

This is probably a bit OT, but I was driving 75 on I 10 when a mobile home tractor towing a (looked like a 50' home) passed me going at least 85. He was on my tail and I had to move over to let him pass.

A very interesting blog, and I'm enjoying all of the comments.

Personally, I don't see a countrywide Autobahn style highway system even coming to fruition in the USA. First, the politics of one municipality to the next won't permit it. NIMBY comes to mind foremost. Second, those same municipalities will lose the REVENUER funds resulting from their individual speed traps. Third, European drivers are much more better trained, more disciplined, and skilled than the average American driver...also, they don't have the mindset that they HAVE A RIGHT TO DRIVE & DO DAMN WELL AS THEY PLEASE. Four, they don't have their heads up their arses when driving. You will not see many reading the morning newspaper or texting or talking on their cell phones or applying their makeup while driving. Driving a junk car that barely pass a inspection is unheard of in western Europe; the vehicle inspections there are the toughest in the world, and very comprehensive. Fifth, the cost of implementing an American Autobahn now is not possible in this economic climate....the federal and state coffers have been robbed long ago. We really missed the boat on this, starting back in the 50's under Eisenhower. He saw what a true German Autobahn was back during and after WWII. It's unfortunate that American engineers used a lower standard of safety and design from the onset. Back then we could have built a better "mouse trap"....too bad that politics as usual and shortsightedness back then and intervening through the years prevailed!

Anyhow, I did love driving a German Autobahn at 100+ MPH....I'll take it over an American Interstate any day. I felt safe then driving on it. I do not feel safe driving on most US Interstates, basically because most drivers here are clueless and mindless and very unsafe.

The worse of the worse in terms of bad drivers has to be Mass. drivers, particularly Boston drivers. Second in line are New Jersey drivers. No wonder their insurance rates are the highest in the nation. Metro NYC and LI + Florida has it's share too. LA and the rest of Southern CA is the pits as well. Ya know what really is the scariest of scary is Washington DC drivers......people from all over the country transplanted there + foreigners & diplomats who haven't a freaking clue how to drive in the winter weather let alone on drive pavement!!!!! I had way too many close calls in DC and surrounds during the time I was stationed at the Pentagon and Ft. Meade. I'll go out of my way to avoid DC and the loop whenever I travel south on I-95. I'd rather go out of my way by many miles and instead travel the Chesapeake Bay-Bridge!

Just my 2 Cents worth...

You wrote, "Four, they don't have their heads up their arses when driving. You will not see many reading the morning newspaper or texting or talking on their cell phones or applying their makeup while driving."

This is 100% correct. Those with their heads up their arses (trans-rectal position) would have to have their papers, cellphones, or makeup in that very same cavity, thus rendering them invisible.

LOL @ AH's comment "trans-rectal position"!

A good one that I haven't heard before.....

Yup. Right up there with our patented Rut-Ro trans-rectal brain scan - because it's always best to take the shortest route.

Moosie said: Second, those same municipalities will lose the REVENUER funds resulting from their individual speed traps.

First, municipalities don't usually have speed traps--like speed cameras--on rural sections of interstate highways. They put the traps in town, where autobahn conditions won't apply (except in Chicago, where almost nothing slows traffic down)

Second, if states adopted my plan (see above) for special licenses and license plates for drivers who want to speed, the states would make a bundle. They could charge $250 for a one-day driving school and qualifying event, another $150 to inspect the car for safety, and $500 a year for the special license and plates. That's..um, let's see, $250 plus $150 plus $500...is, err, carry the 1...$900 the first year and $500 per year afterward--way more than they would ever get with traffic tickets from such offenders. Most habitual speeders are well equipped with radar detectors and rarely get caught.

If the politicians get their head out of their trans-rectal position, they would realize that speeding doesn't cause accidents, especially when practiced by pros, but there's lots of money to be made if they would cater to us.

Slow Poop, they may not allow the local cops to ticket speedsters on the Interstates where you're from, but the do here and a lot of other places I have traveled through on the Eastern Seaboard. Heck here in NY if a State Super Duper Trooper nails you for speeding and any other moving infraction, you plead guilty or are found guilty, then the municipality where you were ticketed on an Interstate Highway receives the proceeds of the fine, not the state.

You're ideas may have merit for the states making tons of Autobahn money, but honestly, how many people do you really know that would spend that much money to drive in the fast lane? I bet not too many, unless you're all independently wealthy. Frankly, I don't think the insurance underwriters will go along with all of this, even if you pass all of the driving exams with flying colors. Think of the liability concerns they would have. Also, i don't think too many people here in the USA are even close to Europeans in terms of driving abilities, especially at the faster highway speeds. I know because I've taken the racing course here at Watkins Glen and Limerock race courses. In fact, the very first car that I actually drove on a road (at age 16) was my dad's Ferrari 308GTS. Nope, I don't see a whole lot of people being able to: 1. Afford such driving courses (they are NOT like defensive driving courses), and 2. Not be physically and mentally able to pass said courses.

All in all, it's only a pipe dream! Do you really think that Nobama will want to pull $$$$ from his precious Democratic Socialism programs to build "The Great American Autobahn" together with all of it's "Shovel Ready Jobs".......neither will materialize. You can bet on that and win hands down 100% of the time. We've been waiting for nearly 4 years during his administration for those "Shovel Ready Jobs" to appear....zip nadda zoing! The only thing that's been shoveled has been the huge pile of BS emanating from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

That's funny because we just made over the past 4 years 12 billion on shovel ready jobs alone. This year since December the company I work for in the southeast has earn $3 billion. You must be in the wrong business, or you estimators really suck.

Bakerjohn, I wasn't describing myself or my firm per see (which is just me....I'm very small potatos, as I only just incorporated recently as a Professional Corporation [S-Corp]), but the whole of the US of A, where there's a lack of funding for infrastructure repairs. Yes, there are some very big construction projects underway, but there is not enough desperately needed smaller projects around that spreads the wealth and keeps a multitude of people gainfully employed. There's a lot of engineers, inspectors, testing agency personnel, skilled tradesmen, and construction laborers etc etc etc still out there across the country still unemployed or underemployed. A whole lot of them have ran out of unemployment insurance and hence have fallen off the US Labor Dept's. radar screen.....they're not even counted anymore!

That's great that the company you work has garnered such work, but that is not currently the norm throughout the construction industry: it appears that the very BIG FISH are the ones getting the BIG PROJECTS.

"Good for you...."

Must be just a NY thing but every where else is doing great. We have so much work we're turning it down. We have a hard time finding workers they had to import workers from the east coast because we're running out of them here west of the Mississippi. Even when I worked in PA we couldn't keep up. Plus most companies now are going in house instead of hiring consulting firms much cheaper probably why your not seeing the growth. If you want more jobs then you're going to need a way to pay for it increase the funds high fuel tax to match the increase expense of doing construction. 50-60% of are projects are small $1-$7 million range Bush era policies killed the smaller fish now only the big fish are left.

Not slow at all.

That makes excellent sense so it won't happen.

Every once in while I come up with something good. Like we say here in Iowa, even a blind squirrel finds a chestnut once in a while.

ha!!

Yeah, but who paid for all that rebuilding? The Germans may have done the actual construction, but we paid for it because the roads and bridges had to be rebuilt to handle our tanks and airplanes, so we could sweep into Russia if necessary. We spent billions after the German reunification, rebuilding all those roads in Eastern Germany.

I saw all this in a news story somewhere, but I can't find it with Google.

Initially, we paid for the reconstruction of the Autobahn under the guise of the Marshal Plan in the late 40's and into the 1950's when we and our Allies were an Occupying Force. The West Germans paid for the its' improvements after they became a nation state once again (with a new democratic Constitution I might add) and not an Occupied Country (in the mid-1950's. if I'm not mistaken)....my late father was stationed with the US Army in W. Germany for 6 years following his participation in the Korean War.

I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it was the West Germans that paid for the reconstruction of East Germany's infrastructure and more, in it's entirety, after reunification, not the USA and the remainder of the NATO nations.

GA The interstate under the USFHS and USACOE in the 50's and 60's mimicked the autobahn to convey the military from one coast to the other.

bakerjohn, you're absolutely correct!

President Eisenhower signed into law the establishment of the "National Defense Highway System Act" back in the 1956's to aid in the mobilization and redistribution of US Army Troops along the Interstate Highway System. To this day you will notice signs along certain Interstate highways stating as much......I do know that the NYS Thruway, I-87 (the Adirondack Northway), I-84, I-95, and I-81 (runs from Binghampton thru Syracuse to Ft. Drum & Watertown in this state) here are part of that defense highway network.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/ndhs.htmTo this day you will

I vote no.

The return on investment is too low and over too long of a time to merit more taxes on the economy and people to support it.

The kind of jobs we need are not infrastructure ditch diggers, but jobs that directly add to the US GNP.

Also, the reason the German roads are superior is that instead of federal or state workers building their roads, private industry is contracted to build and maintain the roads. Those contracts specifically hold the contractor responsible for maintaining the roads and it is in the best interest of those contractors to do the best job possible so as to limit maintenance costs.

This is in stark contrast to the way roads are maintained and built in the US where work crews and their sub contractors do not have a vested interest in the quality of the work nor the time by which they are completed.

AH I can't think of one state or federal worker that builds our roads. All the work is done by the private sector. My company alone made 6 billion dollars last year we are on a record track of making close to 4 billion alone in the region I work in. Every road that I'm responsible for has to maintain it for two years after its completed. It obvious you haven't a clue about construction or the contracts that go into making them.

Yes, but do you own those roads or are you a subcontractor to the state and/or federal governments.

While I do not know the specifics of the German contracts, my understanding is that they have much more invested in their work than companies like you.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think your marching orders are under the direction of the state of federal system. If you are told to build a road (assuming you win the contract), your company builds that road. When a pothole appears nothing gets done until another work order is written by the governing agency (state/federal).

From that perspective it is almost like the more potholes the better, although, if you got that reputation the state or federal government would likely select a different contractor.

On the other hand, if your contract included the requirement that you would maintain the road at a predetermined cost up front (another words, you are paid only up front) over a set number of years, you would have a much more invested interest in not having to do follow up repairs.

During our two year maintenance we are responsible for all the maintenance on our own dime. If there are major failures or premature failures that we are directly responsible our dime. If its a design flaw the state and feds take responsible. When it comes to bid time the government looks at many factors not just low bid they look at safety, quality, quickness, staff, etc. before a job is awarded. There are so many rules and regulations imposed on us you have to really try hard to mess up. Biggest difference is the amount of funding and number of lane miles. AZ has more lane miles that Germany with have the budget. AZ also is ranked 39 in lane miles in the US. Germany is smart enough to increase funding on a yearly basis where we haven't increased ours since 1996.

Two years is about how long the new highways here last. I can buy an LED TV with a longer warranty.

Most of our interstates are over 50 years old. Some roads in PA are over 300 years old. Average life span for concrete is about 25 and asphalt is 8. All depends on wear and tear from truck traffic, climate, soils, and materials.

Besides your from Kentucky how long did you expect them to last.

Street racing has featured on NatGeo lately.

Last night the city of Kent was featured. Anarchy in motion it seems.

Youth and alchohol fueled.

Would autobahns give these passionate enthusiasts an alternative, possibly safer for all, venue?

I say that if you're hell bent on killing yourself in a hot automobile for the sake of a rush or passion or whatever, then take it to a racetrack and only there. There are a good many automobile enthusiasts clubs that one can join who hold road rallies and race meets at the local speedway. That way you're being responsible and not harming others. The public streets and byways are not the place to zoom around at breakneck speeds...too much is at stake.

After I left the Active Duty Army in the early 80's I use to attend illegal drag racing on the local crosstown 6-lane highway every Friday and Saturday night during the spring, summer, and fall, weather permitting. Let's say there were a lot of hopped-up 1960's muscle cars participating all pushing a lot of brute force horsepower. You'd think you were displaced to New Jersey or Southern California with all of the iron that showed up! Hell, I even came with my 1969 Pontiac Trans-Am, a rare bird indeed! I never did race it because the guys that did raced for Pink Slips, and I wasn't ready to loose my prized tire burner to some other guy over a race. This is the very same place where famed NHRA drag racer Shirley Cha Cha Maldowny began her racing passion and later her career....where everyone would meet at the Mike Submarines/Neba Roast Beef Sandwich shop at the intersection of NY 7 (the Crosstown) and State Street in Schenectady New York. The actual drag racing was usually held along a dark section of I-890 right in front the General Electric plant in Schenectady. I bet ya that some automobile people in this forum from the Capital District of NY know all about these drag meets from way back when, and probably even attended a few or more themselves.

Anyhow, I changed my passion for these races on the street late one night after witnessing one of the drag racers loosing control and slamming into parked cars and a group of spectators that were watching a race and were lined-up the along the side of the highway, killing a 17 year guy and seriously injuring several more people. The carnage, blood, and yes body parts were everywhere. It was a bad bad scene, almost like being in a combat zone, and the aftermath was pretty much predictable where the cops, the Mayor, the newspapers, and the local citizens went ape chit and had a field day.

It just isn't worth it. Be very careful what you wish for, as it may jump out and bite you in the ass....

Moosie said: I say that if you're hell bent on killing yourself in a hot automobile for the sake of a rush or passion or whatever, then take it to a racetrack and only there.

I'm not hellbent on killing myself, but we just got back from a "track day" with my daughter. We took my M3, and I taught her how to drive it on a track. There were two other "newbies" (those who have never been on a racetrack before) and nobody went off track or hurt their cars. Each one had an instructor, and the three of us would often run laps together, not trying to race each other, just learning how to go fast.

There were two run groups and about 25 cars. We ran 20-minute sessions from 9 am to 5 pm, and the M3 did eight sessions (almost three hours of track time!) in 93 F heat without missing a beat. We drove it home with the a/c on. Cost? $150 for the entry fee, instructors were free.

Want to try it? All you need is a decent car, a helmet, and a good set of aftermarket brake pads (that is, not from your local autoparts store). What's a good car? Anything but a SUV, van, pickup truck, or something similar. I've seen all kinds of cars out there. The most popular are Corvettes, Mustangs, BMWs and Vipers, but yesterday I saw a Honda Accord, Subarus, Mazdas, Evos and a Pontiac.

Find a nearby racetrack, look up their web site, check their calendar for driver's schools or HPDEs (high performance driving events), and contact the club runnng the event. BMW and Porsche club events are the best, but you don't need a Porsche or BMW to participate. Typical cost is $300-$450 for the entire weekend, and they supply the instructor.

While this is mostly a sport for ROWGs (rich old white guys), anybody can participate. Besides, life is short--always drive a cool car. So go buy yourself that Z06 Corvette you've been dreaming about, and learn how to drive it.

Way to go Old Slow Poop! You're to be commended for taking in to a racetrack that has instructors!!!!

I don't know where you are located, so what track did you venture forth to? Just curious!

I'd do the same thing today if I had a decent ride......well, maybe some day soon as I'm looking to buy myself a new Shelby Mustang fully loaded and with racing brakes....IF I can swing the $$$$$.

Last night I went to watch the racing at Lebanon Valley Speedway about an hour drive from here. It's a 1/2 mile high-banked clay oval track. Very fast and DIRTCAR sanctioned, meaning it's mostly a NE USA thing from Maine all the way down Charlotte NC. I grew up with the type of racing since I was about 3 years old (1961) as my dad was an avid dirt track racing fan. It's in my blood.

Legendary former NHRA Top Fueler driver Shirley Cha Cha Muldowney (originally from Schenectady NY) started her drag racing career on the Lebanon Valley Speedway drag strip back in the 1960's. I even know her former Chief Engine Mechanic Danny R.. He helped me rebuild and Blue-printed the big block in my '69 Pontiac Trans-Am back in the early 1980's.

Mainly, I'm a Big Block Modified racing buff, and have been a pit crew member back in the 80's. The Modified cars are capable of turning less than 19 second laps on this track, with speeds reaching around 140 MPH on the long straightaways. Typically, the a modified racing engine can produce 850 HP. Only Sprint Cars (World of Outlaws) are faster on a dirt track, but not by much!!!! The Biggest of the Biggest DIRTCAR races occurs on the "Moody Mile" at the Syracuse NY Fairgrounds (NY State fairgrounds) in October. Usually the race is televised on ESPN or the Speed Channel.

Here's a URL Link to the Lebanon Valley Speedway website:

http://www.lebanonvalley.com/

Lots of photos of the Modified there.

It's Midamerica Motorplex, just south of Council Bluffs, Iowa.

http://www.midamericamotorplex.com/2006/default.asp

We run there all the time with various groups. This weekend it was with FindTheLine

http://www.FindTheLine.com

They will be running there again on Sept 29.

By the bye, the track usually doesn't supply the instructors--the groups do. I was my daughter's instructor, FindTheLine supplied an instructor, and the third car was two buddies, with one instructing the other. The BMW and Porsche clubs have trained, certified instructors, most of whom are real racers.

You don't need a new Shelby Mustang--any old Mustang, including the Foxbody cars, can be equipped with aftermarket springs, shocks, brakes and so on. You can get into this sport fairly cheaply with, say, a used Miata, 3-series BMW, Mustang, or whatever suits your fancy. The ROWGs bring motorhomes, 50-ft enclosed traiilers and brand new Vipers and Z06 Corvettes, but lots of guys run older cars, like E36 M3s (what I have).

Yes, those modified cars are outrageously fast, and fun to watch, but I would much rather get out on the track and do it myself.

Since we're on an "autobahn" subject, here's a recent video of me at the Autobahn circuit near Chicago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlXO3SMbsks&feature=youtu.be

Thanks Old Poop, I'll check out the links later!

Here's a pretty good You-Tube video (w/ music no less) link for the Mr. DirtTrack USA 100-lapper at Lebanon Valley Speedway, from August of 2010:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyl9W1x-_iw&feature=related

This is all about Big Block modified racing. In fact I was there for this race that evening......it is a qualifying race for the huge 200-lapper held at Syracuse. The first thing that you will notice is that cars "slide" through the turns, much like driving a rear wheeled car on snow. this is not NASCAR, although a good number of NASCAR drivers have visited the Valley and have actually borrowed a Modified car and gone racing. Tony Stewart is one of them. There are several others that had as well. One of the cars you'll notice during the race is the red and black #115 driven by 7-time Track Champ Kenny Tremont, although he didn't win this particular race. He's the Winningest driver of all time at the Valley. #74, driven by JR Heffner won it.

I'll try to locate a video of last years race at Syracuse if I can and post the link here....

I'm sure a lot of folks in here from the northeast US, Quebec, and Ontario know all about DIRT racing. It's finally making inroads down south where a new DIRT track having been built at Charlotte Speedway in NC a few years ago.

Here a link to one of many YouTube videos covering the 2011 Super DIRTweek held at Syracuse! Basically it only shows the "FAST LAPS" and not the actual 200-Lap championship race (I'm still trying to locate it, although I do have it stored on my DVR).

Unfortunately I'm not going to his years festivities due to an upcoming wedding for my niece, but I plan on going next year! I may just drag along Mrs. Moosie to Syracuse even if she doesn't like racing!! LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG6k4lGNOXg&feature=related

I hit the JACKPOT! Found a group of 50 YouTube videos from the 2011 SDW SEF 200! Many are pretty short.....

http://www.youtube.com/user/DTDSuperDirtWeek?feature=mhee#g/u

Are those that speed the same ones that cheated in their examinations at school?