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Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

Posted October 09, 2013 9:10 AM by HUSH

It's October, and that means it's my least favorite season here in the Northern Hemisphere. No, not autumn. Autumn is actually very nice: football season is in high gear; hockey season is underway; the weather can be described as "sleeping weather"; Halloween is nigh; fall clothing, food and beers arrive.

Yes, autumn is splendid. Rather it's the scourge known as 'roadwork season' that agitates me. See, summer is the time when most road crews perform the old Three Stooges routine known as "One Man Works; Two Men Supervise." That's not to say our talented road work professionals are as inept as Larry, Moe and Curly when it comes to tools, but it does appear as though roadwork reaches a more fervent pace as frozen nights and days inch closer.

My drive to the office, where I carefully craft this excellence for you, now takes an additional ten minutes because crews are installing a rotary (a.k.a. roundabout; a.k.a. traffic circle) along the route. I realize this minor inconvenience will pay dividends, but that doesn't make me any less peeved that I must arise ten minutes earlier to account for this travel delay. It seems as though some of my coworkers didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel--or in this case, the circular piece of concrete at the end of the bulldozer.

Many who I've spoken with find the construction annoying, but are even more upset that yet another traffic circle is going to be installed. Some say they are confusing. Some believe they're an unnecessary taxpayer expense. Some say they're dangerous, as new, unexpected traffic patterns will amount to accidents and casualties. Others "just like the old way" and remind you that only socialists implement rotaries. (Truth be told France has half the rotaries in the world, at about 30,000.) And pretty much, unless they're familiar with The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, England (pictured right), they're wrong.

It also turns out that traffic circles are much safer than intersections. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that, when compared to stop signs or traffic lights, roundabouts result in a 90% reduction in collisions that cause a fatality and are 40% safer for pedestrians. Overall, auto accidents are reduced by 37%.

Yet these traffic implements were almost phased out by the 1950s. Despite a lexicon where traffic circles, rotaries, and roundabouts are synonymous, they formally have very different definitions. Until recently traffic circles specifically referred to circular, circuited roads where the traffic entering the circle had the right-of-way, quite the opposite of what is expected today. Furthermore, traffic circles were meant to be driven without slowing down. That meant fast cars entered a traffic circle which already had more cars than it could accommodate. This was fine for 1905, when New York's famous Columbus Circle was constructed, but ten years later burgeoning automobile traffic nearly made the circle obsolete. Eventually, a more natural traffic pattern was instituted at Columbus Circle, likely saving it from a traffic light intersection.

I suppose my coworkers should get more used to traffic circles however, or ahem-roundabouts. Recent interchange designs place circles at the on- and off-ramps of highways. Gyratories, or rotaries which encompass whole blocks, have also become a common traffic solution, despite the one located at Hanger Lane in Britain being named one of the scariest traffic patterns in the world.

There are some people who share my love of roundabouts. In the U.K., the Roundabout Appreciation Society enlists its members in general discussion about roundabouts, as well as their engineering and architecture. The society sells a yearly calendar to keep its organization financed, but has had to diversify their assets in recent years to attract new members. Johnny Barnes has stood at the same roundabout for nearly 30 years as he waves, blesses, and blows kisses at drivers who traverse a roundabout in Hamilton, Bermuda. He has become a local celebrity, and his days are chronicled in the film Mr. Happy Man.

It must be something about the pessimistic attitude of the United States. Perhaps an appreciation society or our own Johnny Barnes can change that.

Resources

Wikipedia - Traffic circle; Roundabout

WSDOT - Roundabout Benefits

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#1

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/09/2013 10:14 AM

I enjoy them, where I am in Green Bay, WI. the reason and only time they don't put in round-a-bouts is the longer time frame it takes to construct them.

Even though I approve of them because how less it impedes traffic flow, I believe my viewpoint is a minority one.

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#2

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/09/2013 10:56 AM

October, harumph! They've been chewing up the roads in and around Reading all summer, and they show no sign of stopping.

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#17
In reply to #2

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 12:04 PM

Agreed! There are only two seasons, winter and road construction!

BTW: I couldn't copy/paste or drag and drop, nor could I paste from Open Office to the response box.

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#18
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Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 2:15 PM

I use internet explorer at work and firefox at home. I have found that highlighting the text and hitting ctrl and c (hit both at the same time while txt is highlighted) to copy then ctrl and v to paste works fine on both browsers. Otherwise I have to right click and choose to bypass "custom" menu to access the cut and paste options.

Drew K

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#3

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/09/2013 12:08 PM

I'm very pleased with the roundabouts they've been installing in northern Georgia (USA), and this area is definitely NOT socialist.

Yes, there are still a lot of idiots who think Yield is identical to Stop and don't get the concept of continuously flowing traffic. But they remain the exception.

(And so far I've resisted mounting a huge rubber bumper to the front of my car to nudge these morons along when they stop for no reason.)

Oh, and thanks to our mild climate, road repairs are pretty much year round here, so you don't get a lot of sympathy from me on that.

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#4

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/09/2013 6:33 PM

We recently got our first round-abouts in Mesa, AZ, the city of wide streets and narrow minds.

They are at a freeway exit/entrance in a non-commercial area. (Two lane each way thoroughfare)

Man, was I upset!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How stupid can "they" be?

Well, guess what? Yep, after using them for awhile, I can find nothing to complain about, except................................if you are pulling a boat or trailer, you have to be very careful.

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#9
In reply to #4

Re: Roundabouts: Yet or Nay?

10/10/2013 6:25 AM

I agree. The round a bouts I have to deal with are very small to fit the location. I can't imagine having to deal with them with a trailer or worse yet with an 18 wheeler.

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#15
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Re: Roundabouts: Yet or Nay?

10/10/2013 11:34 AM

I used to drive a fuel truck designed for refueling aircraft. It had a 107 ft turning radius, that was the only vehicle I ever saw have trouble with British roundabouts (and then only if the driver sucked).

European lorries (18+ wheelers) are designed to have a tighter turning radius but I drove a U.S. Ford LTL 9000 (long hood) a few times in Iraq and I found that it handled quite well and thought it couldhandle the roudabouts in the U.K. without trouble.

Drew K

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 6:40 AM

I like them a lot more than I thought I would.

We've got lights that last 3-4 minutes on a red. I like maintaining momentum, rather than stopping.

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#11
In reply to #4

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 9:01 AM

The were very upset when before they put the first one in Green Bay area. the had petition and every thing.

Saying large truck can't pass or would be problems especially with emergency vehicles.

What they did was, they went into a High School parking lot and did a demonstration for the public. and they chalked the outline of the round-a-bout. and had the vehicles in question go through it and have them give a report.

They said not a problem, and there wasn't one. As I said earlier the only time when they don't put one in is when their is a time constraint.

It takes longer to build but less time operating costs, even with the center lawn care. (They usually plant flowers ond stuff in the center.)

But I notice that the circles are getting larger.

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#5

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/09/2013 10:37 PM

Roundabout are a great solution to intersection issues If they are properly designed and constructed, and If The local road rules aren't written by an infinite number of monkeys and If the general population of drivers understand that they are an interleaving device.

However when they are retrofitted into suburban streets without regard for all the traffic that travels on the thoroughfares, that becomes an issue.

When the regulations on how to approach and traverse and leave a roundabout are written by people who don't have a drivers license then your gonna have some issues.

When most of the drivers couldn't drive out of a wet paper bag, then roundabouts become a Mensa grade problem.

One favourite thing local councils like to do here is landscaping the roundabouts such that you can't see traffic entering/traversing the roundabout until they drive over your bonnet(hood). Though a number of councils have since rethought that due to litigation issues..

Yes I prefer roundabouts to traffic lights but they become a challenge when multi laned, with zombie commuters and grey nomads...

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#6

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/09/2013 10:43 PM

As an ugly American..... I can say I think these are very over-rated and fool-hardy!!

I have not one, but two in my neighborhood - very little traffic, so why must we limit, divert everyone from a real interchange??

Even my trips to Europe, the round-a-bout is more of a jousting match than traffic aid!

Just visited my son in Chicago, next to his apartment are a couple of circles/roundabouts in a "normal" sized street interchange!! The circle with the tree is about 12-15feet (3-5meter) across and takes up most of the driving area. These are in neighborhoods where the traffic is about 3 cars a hour!!

Another nice idea run amuck!! Like many liberal ideas......

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 1:03 AM

I hear Chicago has seen better times!

No and I did not quote you OT!

Roundabouts in a less frequented street are still better than a traffic light or no signs whatsoever!

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#8

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 6:11 AM

We have 4 roundabouts I travel daily. The only problems are folks who don't know the difference from a traffic circle. I've seen the occasional driver(old lady's mostly) driving in circles tightly around the island trying to figure out how to exit!

Our state sent this out to everyone when they started going all out on the roundabouts here.

https://www.dot.ny.gov/main/roundabouts/files/roundabbrochure.pdf

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#12

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 10:01 AM

Those of you familiar with Wisconsin will understand that here in Madison the traffic circle debate has gone to really ridiculous levels with people trying to file lawsuits and injunctions etc. just because the don't know how to drive in a traffic circle. Granted the courts keep throwing them out, its just such a waste. But then again we have the capitol rotunda singalongs to keep everyone entertained. The cops arrest and ticket, the courts dismiss and throw out and around we go again. So I guess you could say "the round-a-bout" is actually how we do business in Wisconsin!

Personally I think they are the best solution to the intersection, unfortunately not everyone has the same level of competence when it comes to driving and so they can be frustrating even for those of us who like them do to the folks who just can't figure out the concept of traffic "flow".

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 10:41 AM

Lee Dreyfus , a past governor of Wisconsin said of Madison: "Madison is 30 square miles surrounded by reality."

I think Madison is up to about 65 square miles by now.

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#14
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Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 10:47 AM

The Capitol Times now publishes weekly under the name 77square.

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#16

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 12:00 PM

We have had this discussion before with some people very for or very very against the idea of roundabouts.

I think JB showed a very good example of how they can improve things with this post. and this picture.

Drew K

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#19

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 4:06 PM

Well I like them. Because when I'm having a big think about something and happily driving completely the wrong way they make turning back around again really easy.

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#20

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 10:50 PM

I dislike the ones around here because they fill the center of the circle with foliage 6 to 8 feet tall which cuts visibility of other traffic down to nothing. If they would limit the bushes to one or two feet (leaving full visibility for drivers, it would be much better.

Bill

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#22
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Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/11/2013 7:40 AM

That is the reason why they have that. Because if they did have that what you suggest, people like your self would be stuck waiting to enter the traffic circle, and actually holding up traffic and putting it mildly, creating a spectacle.

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#21

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/10/2013 11:55 PM

I have 4 complaints with roundabouts:

  1. When they make them too small for the type of traffic that is going to go through them (this includes filling the centre with cr4p that locks everyone's view, instead of a nicely angled curb with a paved area that makes life much easier with a trailer),
  2. When people aren't taught how to drive in them, or worse yet different levels of government offer different ways(- we had that here!!),
  3. When they are near schools!!! Roundabouts and pedestrians- especially high school students are NOT a good combination!!
  4. When perfectly good intersections are ripped out and replaced at phenomenal cost by politicians who don't read points above first.

Otherwise they can be great. As far as the Magic Roundabout goes- that may be a bit much. I've been on it and it really seems to be just 4 roundabouts connected by short roads that happen to be curved. It could have been diamond shaped instead, but what would they call it then?

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#23
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Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/11/2013 7:46 AM

I agree with the student. every student I saw was walking with it's head down texting.

My company is located near to a school, and Last March, when I left work, I saw a girl about 100 + feet away texting walking towards me, well where I was the side walk had sunk and had a puddle about 3-4" deep from the snow melt. so I thought I watch. this student cross the street without even looking for car, they know they have a right-a-way. but still.

She came onto the sidewalk again and kept walking and as I watch she walk right into the puddle, which was over her tennis shoes. She looked up at me and started laughing. I told her, your lucky that wasn't a car.

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#24

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/12/2013 6:57 PM

Hay, Nay, nay.

See previous related threads and save taxpayer dollars before any more are built...

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#25

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/13/2013 12:13 PM

When it comes to the traffic circle, I believe all of them would benefit greatly from the addition of 1 sign, strategically placed within the circle, between all entrance / exit points.

Personally, I do not see any problem with the concept of round-a-bouts; rather it is the 'driver human' that fails to achieve the full reward of the civil engineering achievements. After all, the circle is simplistic in it's design; it is virtually maintenance free, with no need for lights, cameras or repair actions. It could work for all, if only the engineers had included instructions for the end-user.

The wording of the sign can be debated, but the message needs to be: USE YOUR RIGHT HAND TURN SIGNAL TO EXIT CIRCLE ONCE YOUR CAR HAS PASSED THE LAST EXIT THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO USE!!

That's it-Sorry for venting

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#26
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Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/13/2013 5:25 PM

Good idea about signaling, except that the first time through, one might not know just where. I recently visited Kennewick, WA, USA, which has a large number of roundabouts; I had no trouble, and they seem to work okay.

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#27
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Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/13/2013 9:01 PM

Great point, however the circle in it's simplistic beauty, always gives you a second chance at the same exit- some call it Fail Safe.

They are also great places to drive your GPS crazy, course it requires that the GPS already drove you crazy first.

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#28
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Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

10/13/2013 9:19 PM

Yes, but if quite a few drivers get confused about where to get off, pretty soon the whole circle gets clogged. Just put a square dance caller in the center! Round we go, do-si-do, but peel off first before we burst!

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#29

Re: Roundabouts: Yay or Nay?

11/10/2013 1:59 AM

"Mythbuster" demonstrated that roundabouts are more effective(less delay) than junction with traffic lights,although it require more space.

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