Workbench Creations Blog

Workbench Creations

Workbench Creations is the place for conversation and discussion about do-it-yourself (DIY) projects. This DIY blog will feature projects completed by its owner as well as projects completed by other do-it-yourselfers. Workbench Creations is the place where DIYers can discuss ideas, learn about what others have done, and share their expertise.

Previous in Blog: How to Motorize a Projector Screen   Next in Blog: Building a Lighted Ball
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Rating: Comments: Nested

Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

Posted June 22, 2015 12:00 AM by frankd20

From time to time I do HVAC work--I learned about it and got my certification for one particular project I was doing at the time. One of the tools required is a recovery machine to recover the coolant and potentially reuse it.

I purchased a used recovery machine online a while ago and it has worked for my needs until one day it would no longer start.

The machine has a motor that is started with a capacitor, which is part of a pump. The machine has an on switch and a switch that is momentarily depressed to start the motor. When the start switch was depressed the motor would hum but not start spinning. The steps I followed to fix this should apply to most motors with a starter capacitor.

Capacitively-started motors typically have three electrical components associated with starting: a starter capacitor, a centrifugal switch, and a start coil within the motor.

Don't forget to check the obvious first

The first thing I tried was to make sure the motor would spin freely, which it did. I was then able to manually spin the motor while trying to start it, and the motor started right up once I gave it a little spin. This confirms that the issue is in the starter circuitry and not mechanical or otherwise.

Lucky for me I have an identical machine with a working motor for diagnostics. However it would be pointless to break one to fix the other.

Attempting a fix

The first and most obvious thing I tried after this was to swap capacitors, but the motor just hummed.

The second, slightly less obvious but common problem is the centrifugal switch that engages once the motor has started. If a contact goes bad the motor will no longer start. On this particular motor the switch is external and easily changed out, so I swapped it with the other motor. I have also heard of people tapping the switch and having it work as it makes contact but for me, motor still hummed.

What remains must be the problem

Having checked these two problems, the remaining possibility is the starter coil coil, which is of course the most difficult to fix. Typically when a coil goes bad in a motor you smell a burning scent and when inspecting the motor you can see something has overheated. The motor in question has the coils somewhat exposed and nothing looked or smelled burnt. Some tests with a multimeter however confirmed my fears that the starter coil was broken.

The fix

The problem with fixing the coil in this motor is that it has been welded closed and access to the coils would require cutting the welds and carefully reattaching it. At this point I went online in search of an identical motor to replace it, but I did not find one. With not much to lose I set about cutting the welds off with a Dremel tool so the cuts would be as small as possible. The cutting went more quickly than I anticipated, and I made sure to leave some metal welded on for later alignment. Once I was able to remove the end of the motor I checked to make sure the coil was connected to the terminal wire--it was. After a short inspection the problem became evident: the starter coil was in fact broken, from what must have been brief arcing, as the broken ends had small blobs of metal. The starter coil looked fine otherwise with no sign of overheating. I can only imagine that the coil was nicked or otherwise defective, either when the motor was built or from something that went into it.

I did my best to repair the broken wire by scraping off the enamel, twisting and soldering the wire together. I coated it with liquid electric tape to make sure it can't short to anything.

I put the motor back together by re-welding it, and I used clamps and spacers to align the metal tabs I left. First, I just put on small tack welds going around to the four sides. Once it was all aligned and spinning freely I was able to remove the clamps and spacers and add some additional welds. I reassembled it back into the machine and it has been working fine. The great thing about this fix is made a broken machine that would have been expensive to replace work without requiring any parts. I don't even know if new motors for these machines are available--if they are, I didn't readily find any.

Reply

Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#1

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/22/2015 2:06 PM

Good save

Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Commentator
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Environmental Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: The 'Hub of the South Pacific'; 18.15°S, 178.45°E
Posts: 68
Good Answers: 1
#2

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/22/2015 10:40 PM

I agree with Del!

__________________
VT
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Virginia, Georgia, Idaho
Posts: 1079
Good Answers: 30
#3

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/22/2015 11:54 PM

nice job, and congrats on sticking it out, and then writing this piece.

__________________
PFR Pressure busts pipes. Maybe you need better pipes.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#4

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 12:24 AM

Well done in making such a great fix, I hope it stays running for you for many more years to come.

After checking the starting cap, my thoughts are just that was it not possible to measure the stator and starting coils separately, maybe opening the centrifugal contact to "open" the starting coil if access to the separate fields was not possible for some reason?

I know that I am in a position of all infos now (hindsight), making it easier for me, but after checking the switch, I would have attempted to measure out both coils separately as a next myself.

Probably (WRONGLY) scrapping the motor when I found a coil open and it was welded shut!!!

Its probably not a bad idea to find a motor of similar size and spec. that is easily available and making some sort of adapter plates to allow it to be used as an eventual spare, while things are still running as you would wish!!

Just a thought.....

My thanks for the excellent explanation, and the time for making it available to us all here.

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 787
Good Answers: 52
#8
In reply to #4

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 12:43 PM

I don't know if all are this way, but since the centrifugal switch mounted outside of the case of the motor the starter coil terminals were independent and easy to check and identify due to it being a somewhat open frame. I am hoping this fix lasts for a long time but I guess time will tell.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#5

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 3:04 AM

Interesting approach to the welds... I'd have drilled 'em out myself... but maybe that's 'cos I don't have a Dremel

Your method allows it to be tacked back in place too

De

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#10
In reply to #5

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 1:10 PM

Paraphrasing an awful and old German saying (and translating it too!):-

"A man without a Dremel (or a lookalike!) is a cripple!"

I have a battery powered Dremel, there are thousands of things to do away from mains power. And a cheap mains lookalike which works just fine.....I could not be without one.....

For you Del, you should pick up a cheap copy to get the feel of it.....you will never regret it!!

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 3:03 PM

Do you also have the Fein MultiMaster? That is also a good tool to have in tight places (when cutting something). The only problem with the Fein is the tendency to force the tool, but there again, that is operator error.

The one tool I have problems with on the Dremel is the metal cutting bit - just a tad too much force, and "ching" it shatters, too little force, it dances all over hell and back.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#12
In reply to #11

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 4:42 PM

No I don't have one of those. Basically I have the original tools, plus a few chucks and some special, very expensive, router cutters that I use to remove the insides of lock cylinders. They seem to never wear out, mine are 8 years old and have cut through armoured steel many times......They are still as good as new......

The metal cutting disks are very cheap to replace....I buy them 20 or so at a time for very small money....

I find that I need to "get my hand in" so to say, then I don't break then so often......

I used one this morning on my P.Bike....still unbroken and I had already used it before to make a special tool.

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#13
In reply to #12

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/24/2015 9:43 AM

I am impressed! Obviously, you know how to control tool speed, and use the correct hardness of cutter for the job at hand. I am still on the low ramp part of that learning curve, but I did not start out to be a machinist....or an amateur machinist (if those exist, since one either is or is not, there is no in between on this).

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tamworth, UK.
Posts: 1782
Good Answers: 45
#6

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 7:19 AM

Great. It's nice to hear you persevered with it. My central heating pump motor failed due to a faulty start/run capacitor. I got it running OK with a new cap (of nearly the right size) after a bit of help from CR4 members. I have a duff mower at the moment - and lots of long grass.

In your case I would have given thought to making a bracket/clamp device instead of re-welding it. Easier to repair if it fails again. But perhaps you did, and welding was the only way.

__________________
When arguing, remember mud-slinging = lost ground.
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 787
Good Answers: 52
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 12:40 PM

The motor pump assembly fits inside of a plastic molded case, and it is held in place simply by being a tight fit it doesn't allow you to have anything sticking out. I am hoping it lasts a while but if it fails again I could just cut the welds and do it again.

Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#9

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/23/2015 12:54 PM

Kudos for the perseverence to work this out and save the motor. I was attempting a "save" on an old electric lawn mower motor, but alas, it turned out to be an autopsy at the hands of "the eveil doctor".

Next one up will be trying to find a link in a vacuum cleaner circuit, that is apparently a load resistor during start-up? Or just a diode for the vacuum cleaner lamp, that appears to be an automotive style taillight lamp. This one is on back burner, may be a while before I get to it.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: About 4000 miles from the center of the earth (+/-100 mi)
Posts: 9910
Good Answers: 1141
#14

Re: Fixing a Capacitively-started Motor

06/24/2015 8:42 PM

Good job. I understand your satisfaction at "fixing" something. Too many things nowadays are throw-away non-repairables.

Reply
Reply to Blog Entry 14 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (3); frankd20 (2); horace40 (1); James Stewart (3); PFR (1); Rixter (1); user-deleted-1105 (2); VT (1)

Previous in Blog: How to Motorize a Projector Screen   Next in Blog: Building a Lighted Ball

Advertisement