Inebriated by Technology?

Well, here in Spain is forbidden to drive and use a cell phone (you'll be fined if do it)

Anyway everyday I see at least a couple of people doing it. The solution to this people behaviour problems isn't to enact more and more laws. Laws sometimes could help, but is more efficient to educate people and in this special case of driving, make them realize that it's not just their life but innocent people life which is endangered.

I use the cell phone while driving, just as least as necessary and using a hands free device (this is not forbidden... yet) but politicians use to enact laws just looking to keep their sit.

Well, seems to me that the 'old' Chinese way may have some value here.

Get caught using the cell phone whilst driving, the officers have the authority to remove the transgressor from the vehicle and shoot him/her, dead.

You'll find that the incidence of cell phone usage whilst driving will plummet immediately.

Problem solved.

Cheers,

Stu.

Sorry but this type of "absolute" measures don't work. At the beginning the "crime rate" could decrease but it goes back to the same level in short time. Do you know of any system, democratic or tyrannic, that have made disappear the crime of his territory by using the death penalty?

It's very sad but up to now I haven't think in a better solution than education of people in their rights and duties and basically that they are free to make anything they want up to the limits of other people rights.

Cheers

When I lived in Spain back in the late 70s The Guadia did an admirable job of keeping crime to a minimum. They did not completely eliminate it but it was very rare. We felt safe anywhere at any time of day or night. Is that not still the case? They carried Uzis and you just did not mess with the Guadia.

Unfortunately not, this is not the situation now. It's not a question of police actuation but of law relaxation. It's seems that the only people who has rights are criminals. As I've read somewhere: "The law is made for those stupids as we who believe in it". Politicians and powerful people scape from justice and criminals don't care about it...

This is not an issue of what laws there are or aren't. This is a lack of respect for the people around you. This is learned behavior. When my parents were teaching me to drive, they were consistently telling me to be aware of those around me. Not just to avoid them hitting me, but to avoid hitting them. These people who drive while not paying attention are not concerned with anyone but themselves and their schedules. We need to teach our children to be courteous and aware drivers on the roads and for the parents who are unable or uninterested, we need to have more stringent driver training and licensing procedures to ensure the safety of the rest of us.

Master,

GA from me. Better than good though. Excellent.

Stu.

We need to teach our children : I agree completely

we need to have more stringent driver training and licensing procedures to ensure the safety of the rest of us: Sorry, I don't agree if the previous step hasn't be accomplished. Most of people who don't care about laws (driving ones included) behave in that way because they don't care nobody but themselves. Not because they didn't know the laws or they had been not well trained in driving.

I see everyday people who pass a red traffic light, or drive as if they were making "slalom" between other cars, obviating "stop" signs, speed signs and so on. I'm sure this is not a question of they were bad trained. It's just a question of general education. They must know their rights reach just up to the borderline of everybody else rights. And this must be taught at earlier stages.

Best regards

The human being is an amazing animal because it possesses an amazing brain. It can reason, project, and invent. Its sex drive is not limited to or determined by estrus cycles. It can create economic and scientific metaphors. It can record history.

All of these abilities are a product of the survival drive, and are bolstered in the brain by feelings of satisfaction or pleasure based upon cemented behavioural loops from repeated occurrences having an experiential feedback.

The behavioural loop formation is not totally useful, however. With the survival drive comes traits that even humans deem to be on the negative side of the balance. Three of these are self-benefit over species survival, lack of foresight, and the ability to rationalize away immediate danger. These three behaviours are based upon the same pleasure loops as the positive behaviours, but create destruction for the species in their consequences. The negative traits can be practiced separately in various behaviours and combined in others.

Due to a common combination of self-benefit over species survival and lack of foresight, humans will normally choose to do what they determine as actions that will benefit them at the moment; and not, if given a choice, defer gratification to achieve a longer term species benefit.

In acts of self-benefit, we will commonly continue those actions until the benefits self-destruct due to overkill or blowout. Then we rationalize away the destruction by creating a metaphor for it. The continuance of this behaviour is bolstered by the ability to rationalize away self-destruction components of our actions.

We have only lately been able to join the two concepts of species survival with self-benefit in order to employ some degree of foresight in our actions; but this is a very new conceptualization of the combination of normal trait employment and has not completely caught on yet. Our 'hundredth monkey' level has not yet been reached in this regard.

The visible difficulties that arise due to these negative traits range from planet-wide destructiveness to daily self-destructive habits. 'Group belief'-based murder, non-beneficial dictatorships, insistence upon self wealth over the well-being of those with next-to-zero wealth, ecological chain damage due to destruction of forests and plankton/other species populations and pollution, the high price of oil, slavery, suicide, rape, robbery, narcotics use, alcohol abuse, and smoking are common examples of normal brain function. (Discouraging, isn't it? )

Let's take the current oil price situation as source of illustration.

The price of gasoline is undergoing increases due to the profit-taking of investors in the oil futures market and is generally agreed-upon as playing havoc with world economies. Investors will not stop trying to reap greater and greater profits from that particular commodity because it suits them better (wealth = power = control over one's personal environment = better living conditions) to gain an immediate self-benefit than to consider a species benefit.

Suppose a boycott was instituted against the increase in oil prices by avoidance of one particular brand of gas at the pump for a fixed period of time in order to make oil less palliable in the futures market . Out of initial enthusiasm based upon perceived individual gain, (cheaper gas = more mobility + extra cash to spend on other things) a great many people would share the boycott.

But if the boycott were to be even the smallest bit successful, the very minute that brand started to lower its prices even by as little as once cent (cheaper gas = more mobility + extra cash to spend on other things), most of the initial boycott group would begin to purchase their gasoline there again immediately regardless of whether the boycott has reached its goal or has been lifted or not, thus destroying any chance of a boycott's long-term potential benefit.

Humans are not stupid*, and are very well aware of this shortcoming in an otherwise amazing piece of our anatomy.

To avoid the pain of negative self-realization, we have created metaphors of re-creation and cure to enable us to ignore the immediate danger our behaviours create. Common metaphors include self-righteousness, convenience, inability to cope, and looking for exterior causes and reasons for resultant destruction rather than looking at the interior ones.

In this regard, we have been very creative. Examples of one set of rationalizing metaphors of re-creation and cure --'the exterior cause' group-- include looking for A Saviour to step in and save mankind or settle away our own troubles, and viewing the result of the behaviours (e.g. pollution) as The Problem.

So popular are these latter methods of creating metaphors of re-creation and cure that they have institutionalized avoiding looking inward for solutions. These and other behavioural outcomes have been supported by a herding or 'band-waggoning' instinct humanity has developed, and have become major societal institutions and belief systems bolstered by immense wealth and sustained by a mesh of human infrastructures.

Because we are dealing with a normal outcome of a natural brain function in the species and even though that function is also employed by the more useful side of the same function, the negative effects seem to be outweighing the positive ones for the continuation of the species; and the current prognosis is less than encouraging.

[Using the word "current" is my metaphor for avoidance in looking at a pretty nasty situation. "Inebriated by technology" is just another one.]

Mark

_{[*Means 'unaware' or 'punch-drunk', not 'uninformed' except by popular usage.]}

Mark,

So you're saying that humans are gonna do what they're gonna do, no matter what we say?

HELP!!

Next time I see a suicide happening, I'm gonna let him.

Cheers

Stu

Hi, Stueywright!

Like the scorpion says...

But despair not. Unlike scorpions, we humans can learn, and are proud of our evolutionary progress, spending a tiny amount of time looking around for more ways to evolve (i.e. those of us for whom evolution is not too great a burden to bear, seeing as it comes from within the species rather than from an exterior Cause that leaves us trying our very best to live up to Its expectations), or/and trying to --at least part-time-- live up to our religiously imposed obligations with regard to any husbandry we are willing to contribute to this garden (for the rest of us).

Problem is, results-producing learning seems to come from experiential object lessons. Banging your toe first, wearing a shoe or looking out for toe hazards next time.

Mark

Mark,

Yours are always good.

I do think Kwetz is leading me on to the 'lead poisoning' conclusion still, though.

However, I haven't totally despaired for the human race. The older I get the more I roll with the likes of Darwin Awards. Behavioral modification for the entire race of Homo Sapiens by selective and specific removal from the gene pool by acts of stupidity on the part of the procreants. Natural Selection?

A product of many generations of farmers, I also practise the original method of 'genetic modification'. I know it's highly 'unthought of' now, but since time began we have been selecting the 'best' seeds, joining the strongest animals, etcetera. The ones with unwanted traits were culled. I don't have a problem with that. Only animal on the planet that this doesn't happen to is the human. Sometimes seems to me that is contrary to nature itself.

Ah! I wish I was a better typist- too slow- then maybe I could wax lyrical on this at length.

There is a point where one just lets others do what they wish, and keep out of the way. Motor traffic included. As I find I have trouble with any aspect of that, I seek to increase my skill set, to counter, and cope.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, but it IS nearly Friday. Bad day!

Cheers for now,

Stu.

Sorry if I led you where you didn't want. Nothing too far from my will.

I'm absolutely sure that human kind will overcome the present situation, but we (western countries people) are just looking our belly, self complaint with our way of life and our developments. But this has been the result of many effort. I don't remember who said that success is the result of a second of inspiration and years of transpiration. And unfortunately, the times we live are difficult.

One example: I've watch a TV debate in which a pseudo leftist ministry said, regarding education that "the effort is elitist". This sort of things cause nervous breakdown of anybody with more than one neuronal cell in his brain.

Anyway, one must not stop fighting (non violent way, of course) against this to keep the "effort culture"

Hi, Kwetz!

As I wrote earlier, "Discouraging, isn't it?"

Well, keep your chin up, and keep on being one of the ones who strive for better things. We can only make the difference that one person alone can make.

Mark

Hi, Kwetz!

This is from today's New York Times On The Net:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/business/worldbusiness/30trade.html?_r=1&th=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&emc=th&adxnnlx=1214827668-gmFWtJcXs0cv6YH9Vy3+ww

Mark

Hi, Mark.

I've read the link and this phrase:"The European Union severely limits beef and poultry imports" reminded me what I saw few days ago on TV news here in Spain. It's one more proof of stupidity of politicians, who take quick decisions without watching possible consequences:

Because of all noise made by journalists, now in Spain all animals found dead or sacrificed by suspecting of diseases, must be incinerated. In the north of Spain vultures have become predators, attacking cows because the lack of dead animals.

I'm waiting to see signs forbidding vultures to attack cows or they must pay a 300 € fine....

And I still have confidence in the human kind....

I must be mad!

OK! OK! OK! OK!

No, Kwetz, you're not mad. I see a generous, caring person who is genuinely concerned with the welfare of his fellow man. There are two basic types of human, in terms of contribution to the 'cause', Givers and Takers.

Trouble at the moment with this thread, is that the current correpondents are of the same persuasion.

Yes, Guys, I was playing Devils Advocate somewhat.

I do see that the more 'mature' of us are more likely to subscribe to the principles of patience and consideration. We've arrived at the point where we fully realise that the crash results in a hurt, and the hurt doesn't mend so good. So, quite apart from the dictates of the Law, it's probably better not to encourage a crash. I see our society being stifled by regulation and 'duty-of-care' BS. The very people we have elected to run the joint for us have overstepped the mark and taken it upon themselves (to gain kudos in) to enact regulation to block society being a danger to itself.

I see three generations of my immediate community without sufficient parenting skills to educate their young in the responsibilities of life. Those responsibilities include the rational management of all of the hazards, including those you mention here.

So, in my mind the single most troubling aspect of my society is the one of ignorance.

The person who is talking on a cell phone, whist simultaneously smoking and drinking a shake, is really publicly displaying his/her ignorance of the possible consequences of doing so. That they have been advised of the said ramifications and choose to disbelieve them still makes them ignorant. To break the cycle and produce citizens who are aware of the dangers to their person, more importantly to their unsuspecting fellow citizen, who may be simply 'going in peace', is now dire. The most successful disuasion tactic, in my experience has been to ply the 'appearance' thread. I've percieved that a significant percentage of this society is seriously concerned with it's appearance. We all have examples of this, but one which popped up the other day, by way of illustration, concerned a young colt purchasing a particular type of car, not for the performance attributes of the vehicle, but simply because " I look good driving it". He in fact has no idea what he looks like, driving it. But his perception is that he's 'cool', suave, sophisticated. Any threat to that mindset is dealt with by rage.

Now if we could trade on that 'appearance' and embed in the psyche of the indiviual that he/she only 'looks good' when actively displaying consideration and patience to the fellow traveller ( astronaut - third rock from the sun) then I'd deem that a good start. But it seems that, all too frequently, the public, through a veritable flood of mindless violence perveyed by the 'entertainment' media and supported by ignorant parents, perceives that violence is the new 'cool'. Hence the proliferation of various types of 'rage', entirely unjustified. Parents, ignorant of consequences, themselves totally immersed in this culture can only support that societal degradation into more violence and rage.

Technology has been harnessed to support this. Devices of all sorts are pressed into daily uasage to offload the responsibility of the individual to perform, even on a basic level. The dashboard mounted sat/nav HAS to be turnd on, even if the journey is the daily run to work, or to drop off the kids to school. The reliance on technology for inane tasks is becoming commonplace. With the rise in popularity of these devices is the directly proportional demise of the ability do without them.

About now, I recall reading Plato, and his musings, in a similar vein. ( No, not with electronics, you fool)

Then I get a headache.

Cheers,

Stu

Hi, Sueywright!

While you are entirely correct about the ability of the individual to make choices being the root of the problem, where it manifests itself to affect us all is in our institutions.

Using our over-developed ability to rationalize almost any negative impact away, we have set up corporations and governments that are more responsible to their bottom lines than to the third rock.

Bottom line for a corporation is to create profit for its shareholders. So entrenched is this notion that executive officers can be thrown in jail for failing to do so when given the opportunity (without even being dishonest about it!). Called "breach of fiduciary trust".

And governments have become 'party' driven and thus more interested in creating legislation with respect to being kept in office than doing what's necessary for the health of the rock.

Problem is, the ability to rationalize away our truly destructive propensities is the same survival mechanism at work as that required to keep us alive in the jungle. And it isn't going to go away soon.

I'm all for massive re-education and parents raising their kids to be conscientious; but how does that begin on a global scale?

Mark

Thank you, Stu

So, in my mind the single most troubling aspect of my society is the one of ignorance. : Absolutely perfect. I agree completely. But I how could we do as individuals against this threshing machine? Of course keep the feet on the ground and the mind as higher as possible, and never forget the "principles" which inspired our education. Even we couldn't see any advance, we must continue and our own example is the best we can do to educate others.

P.S. Please could I show your post to my psychiatrist? Maybe then he let me undress this strange shirt, I'm typing with the nose!

Best regards