What's the Difference Between "Electrical" and "Electronic"?

The current is one of the main distinctions.

Voltage is the other!

I'd say electrical was to do with mains voltages,the distribution of these voltages and machines/equipment which primarilly use thes vltages.

Electronics tends to be based around lower voltages typically say 24v and 5 v for the contol systems.

Obviously a broad statement...with plenty of holes so I'm prepared to duck for cover!

Yes, I think I'd agree with your 'rough' definition Del...

Obviously the two do cross over but as a rough guide its right.

You should talk to our electronics engineers, they're working with anything up to 30kV on small PCBs. The difference between them & the power people is that we only work in micro amps.

sooner them than me!

Do they all work with one hand in their pocket?

I keep hearing strange fizzing & popping noises from the electronics and test rooms but I use my discretion & keep walking away.

Now... you know that some yo-yo, such as myself, will not be able to resist asking something about what they might be doing with that hand in the pocket. So do you get demerits for leaving the opening... or do I get demerits for jumping in?

No..it is serious.

Old guy I used to work with worked on nasty high voltage radar supplies...he always said keep 1 hand in you pocket if possible then you wont get a belt right across the heart from hand to hand.

I've had 2kv from hand to hand straight across my chest...not nice. (only 8 lives left)

I knew you were serious. I used to write up lockout-tagout procedures for equipment for which the drawings were out of date or non-existent. So my work involved going into just about every electrical cabinet in large factories, tracing wiring, measuring voltages, etc. I, too, kept one hand in a pocket, whenever I could.

That didn't, however, keep people from asking "Hey Ken, whatcha doin with that hand in your pocket?"

Cheers...

Ken, its absolutely true!!

As a young engineer I was told when working on valve radios with those nasty anode top caps especially, always keep your left hand in your pocket.

Its easier to control one hand amongst the high voltages than two...

AND if you did touch something that bites the electricity will run down your right side avoiding your heart...

Now go on someone, tell me that's a pack of lies, because I remember loads of engineers doing exactly that!

John.

True except for the right/left hand distinction. The important thing was to use only one hand and not ground yourself with the other. That assumed of course you were bright enough not to stand in a mud puddle while you were doing it.

It use to give me the willies to see someone open a cabinet door, and then point to various objects within, often coming very close to energized terminals, and all the while holding onto the door handle. Equally scary were walk-in cabinets near machines that use tons of carbon black. The carbon black would be an inch thick on the floor, and all around you would be uninsulated 480V terminals. The carbon black was a good substitute for mud puddles.

I just gotta reply to this with another story...

When I was in high school (back in the '60s), a friend had his new Heathkit TX-1 (Apache) transmitter. I believe it had a pair of 6146 tubes (valves) in the finals. He had the thing open with the top of the RF cage removed and was examining the innards. He managed to make contact with the plate cap on one of the 6146's with his nose. He of course reacted to the B+ of the tube violently, and hit his head on the bookshelf above the transmitter. He reacted to this, and his nose went back to the B+... which he reacted to... I gather it took about three iterations of this before he managed to get his head out between the bookshelf and the B+.

Luckily he did not have the transmitter "key down" ie transmitting, at the time, which means that he would have RF burns also on the tip of his nose... how would you explain that to your girlfriend...

In any case, the "one handed rule" still applies. If you are going to work with high voltage, keep one hand in pocket.

73's de

Bill NW7L

Del & Ken:

the 'old guy' electrician that I used to work with always kept that one hand behind his back, grasping his belt. His reasoning: it's easier that a hand slips out of a pocket; if you're grasping your belt your natural reaction will be to tighten your grip (thus preventing the hand inadvertently popping around in front of you getting near the other pole of whatever circuit you're working on). Made sense to me. And the key word here is 'old guy'...that means...whatever they were doing...had gotten them to that age...

In a similar vein, I was told by an electrician (not an electronics engineer) that, after checking every way that the circuit you are working on is not live, the first time you touch it should be with your knuckle. That way, if it is live, the shock will contract the hand muscles & pull the knuckle away from the source. If you use fingertips your hand could contract around the source forcing you to hold on to the live part.

Ohh yes Nigh, I think the fire service are trained that when entering a smoke filled room to use the back of their hand to feel their way around for exactly this reason!!!

A caravan with a 12v lighting system would then be electronic, and a old radio with a 90 volt battery would be electrical.??

On the other hand my first car radio had valves and used about the same current as a light.

Electronics may then be the manipulation of signals while electricity is the supply of energy.

I believe electronic refers to active devices.

From Wiki

The term electrical engineering may or may not encompass electronic engineering. Where a distinction is made, electrical engineering is considered to deal with the problems associated with large-scale electrical systems such as power transmission and motor control, whereas electronic engineering deals with the study of small-scale electronic systems including computers and integrated circuits.^[1] Another way of looking at the distinction is that electrical engineers are usually concerned with using electricity to transmit energy, while electronics engineers are concerned with using electricity to transmit information.

"electrical engineers are usually concerned with using electricity to transmit energy, while electronics engineers are concerned with using electricity to transmit information."

I agree with this, although I would replace the word "transmit" with something more general; perhaps "manage".

Yes Manage might be better, or possibly both "transmit and manage information".

My post was a copy and paste from Wiki so it is not necessarily totally correct, just a fairly reasonable explanation.

A simple definition could be as " The flow of electron through condutors called Electric and through the semi conductors called Electronics". by Aijaz Abidi

A simple definition could be as " The flow of electron through condutors called Electric and through the semi conductors called Electronics".

I agree with you, though I would add to and rephrase the definition as follows :

"Electrical engineering deals with the flow of electrons through conductors and Electronics engineering deals with the flow of electrons through vacuum and semiconductors".

a simple deffinition imy view a resister,capacitor, inductor are called electronics and resistor, capacitor, inductor with the help of disign circuit is called electrical.

"a simple deffinition imy view a resister,capacitor, inductor are called electronics and resistor, capacitor, inductor with the help of disign circuit is called electrical."

Does NOT make sense! Resistors, capacitors, and Inductors are components. Without a circuit, they are useless. If a circuit (that may contain R, C, I, and/or lots of other devices) deals with information, it is electronics. If it deals with using electrical energy to produce physical motion, heat, light, etc. it is electrical. Many electrical devices are controlled by electronic devices, and the functioning of electrical devices is commonly monitored by electronic devices.

A magnetron used in a microwave oven is an electrical device - It produces heat, but no information. A very similar magnetron, modulated to send a signal containing information, is an electronic device.

As I said, its power and control, and information is control.

I'm with you!

Electrical is (IMHO) a subset of electronic engineering having to do primarily with the transmission and distribution of power.

Electrical related with electricity calculation whereas Electronics related with electrons caculation which is the name it self.

power versus control

Yeh...

'More control Igor..'

Just doesn't have that ring to it!?

Electrical - The transmission and utilisation of electrical power mainly using mechanical components.

Electronics the utilisation and/or conversion of electrical using dedicated purpose made components

Three main disciplines Analogue, Digital, Power

I got an excellent definition when I was in Gaborone University, (visiting not studying) electronics stuff uses electricity as information, electrical stuff uses electricity as power (to do work).

I don't think we'll get a perfect definition...

I design small control systems with microcontrollers that drive small 12v peristaltic pumps which do work...but it's definitely electronics!

Del, i get the feeling you work on infusion pumps??

For months now I've been trying to guess which company some of the UK posters on here work for...

Your work area seems to be scientific / medical I'm guessing and your location reminds me of a company called Graseby or something... Am I warm?

Nope... chemicalcontrols.co.uk

Mostly it's dosing into Laundries and commercial dishwashers, with some more glamorous applications like urinal dosing!

There are some interesting special applications too, vegetable washing, pumping cleaning fluids into printing machines, water treatment.

It's like a lot of industries, until you are in them you barely realise they are there!

Just about every resteraunt, hospital, pub, supermaket etc has a comercial sized dishwasher. There are thousands of old peoples (care) homes with on premise laundries and commercial laundries with 'tunnel washers' the size of a railway carriages!

Typically dishwash applications use 2 or 3 chemicals, laundries between 3 and 6.

Delivery is sometimes controlled by conductivity mesurements.

I'm currently working on a couple of interesting new projects, but if I told you I'd have to kill you...

Are you asleep yet?

No I'm fascinated..... call me strange if you like, but over the last 23 years of designing instruments for all sorts of companies, I just love visiting new businesses and finding out just how they crimp the fibres of a fibre tip pen nib to the correct amount to give the correct ink flow rate, which varies depending on the colour of ink etc...

Orr a hundred and one other factories that make common items that nobody gives a second thought about.....

Aerosol caps for instance!!! I bet nobody really bothers to think about how they are designed.....

Or how about disposible lighters? they are so cheap but the engineering inside each one is incredible!!!

I could go on about food processing but I would prefer to keep my appetite for my lunch.....!!!!!!

John.....

I differentiate between the two with electrical described as low-tech, big wires and electronics as high-tech, small wires.

Electrical it deals with study about flow of elctron in conductor

Electronic it deals with study aboutflow of elctron in noncondictor such as semiconcondutors,vaccuum,gases etc..

I tend to think that the barrier between electrical engineering and electronic engineering is the mains socket in the wall... electrical being delivery of power to the user, and electronic being using that power to perform a useful task.

Bill

I'm not sure. I use the "barrier" to connect my padestal fan (electric) to the wall outlet (electric) there are electric parts on both side of the barrier. There should be a more specific difference or barrier between electric and electronic. I think the conductor and semiconductor stuff looks better.