Used Cars

Buy a Cavalier and you will be a senior member of CR4 to keep us amused.

Really, there is no golden rule of thumb on this, since where the car was driven and how makes a big difference.

Find a car you like and feel secure about, but before you buy it, have a pre-purchase inspection at an independent service shop or another dealer.

You will have to pay for the inspection, but any laundry list of problems can be used a bargaining chip if you still want it, or a good reason to walk if you don't.

Unless living in a coastal location where rust-out might threaten a 10-year-old car, I'd probably go with the 60,000-mile car. But then again, I wouldn't be afraid of 120,000; my last two cars went over 250,000. Consider aesthetics, too.

Check edmunds.com and Kelley Blue Book, kbb.com, for reviews of older models and approximate values. In general I'd have no problem with a Toyota or Honda that has 120K miles, but I wouldn't bother with most other manufacturers' cars that are over 60K.

Keep in mind that newer cars are more likely to have bluetooth for hands-free phone use, nav systems, back up cameras, and other nice-to-have features.

The 10 year old car to get 60,000 miles if just used for work. Drove 24 miles round trip. 12 miles one way. Which in most cases is a lot of stop and go traffic.

The 5 year old in the same situation would be 48 miles More of a highwy drive. Which in most cases in less wearing on engine.

But in both the owners up keep is a big factor.

It's been my experience that at 10 yrs old a car starts needing expensive repairs, I would go with the younger model....but proper maintenance history is also very important, usually you can tell by close inspection and driving a car what kind of shape it's in...and a great help nowadays is to be found on the internet, look at the complaints registered on the make and model, recalls, feedback from owners, problem issues associated with that particular model and fixes required....get the car as cheaply as possible and be prepared to make some repairs...check the owner history, a rapid turnover of ownership is a bad sign....buy certified used from a dealership if possible, the dealers keep the good trades for resale and wholesale the clunkers to roadside used car dealerships....never buy from them....

Nice example! You on a commission basis?

What's it going to take today to let you steal this car? We're giving away cars for just a fraction of their true value here at Crazy Solar Sales LLc...We wouldn't sell you anything we wouldn't drive ourselves because we're

http://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/buying-a-car-is-it-ok-to-buy-a-former-rental-car-213379

"If you've considered a used car, chances are good that, at one time or another, you've looked at or test driven a former rental car. Tens of thousands of cars leave rental fleets each year and go to dealers across the country, many of which are unaware that the vehicles were ever rental cars. But if you're buying a car, is a former rental car a bad choice? We examine the pros and cons."

I have purchased several vehicle over the years that previously were rentals and to date have had very little issues with any of them.

I always buy from one of the large rental agencies as they have very strict effective inspection and maintenance programs that guarantee the vehicle is kept in good safe condition. (Liability & risk legal requirements.)

In most cases the vehicles have less than 30,000 miles on them and are less than 3 years old with the best part being that they sell for less than half of the new purchase price.

Most still have factory warranty on them.

Cars cost a lot when new (depreciation) and old (maintenance). The golden point is that period in between. A lot depends on the former owner and where (and how) it was driven. Definitely stay away from rental cars, which lead a hard life.

It's important to consider the total cost of the vehicle and not just the purchase price. Do some research on the brand of car and be careful of brands that require high maintenance costs and/or high replacement part costs. Lower mileage is generally better, but it's important to get information about the previous owner, if possible. Buying from a dealer will often lead to additional fees. I had good success buying a car on Ebay -- a 4 year old Toyota Camry with around 50,000 miles.

Thats hard to answer, my experience, I knew my existing car life was ending. I looked and cars with mileage from 42,000 to 125,000 miles. With this, I also new that cars require extra Maintenence with the higher mileage, and the car with higher mileage had to have a good history and looked cherry (great)

Ended up buying one about 18 months ago with 80,000 miles, since then I put new brake pads in, and am very happy with it.

But the final decision is yours.

I'd go with a Bugatti Royale. it's an older car but seems to hold its resale value regardless of mileage

My personal take, over many years is a high mileage but very young car. Lots of long trips and warm running.

Check that all the servicing was done correctly, hopefully from the manufacturer.

So using your figures a 1 year old with 120,000 miles (or more miles!)....

Ex Taxis are a good example,often 500,000 miles and less than 3 years old......but REALLY cheap!!

First thing to do is get the CARFAX for both vehicles and see what history is listed on them. It is not all inclusive but a lot more information than available otherwise. Many a used car purchase has stopped or price reduced by looking at these. For the last 25 years or so I have purchased most of my cars at a dealer's auction. This is where they get most of their cars for them to sell. I have had more success with the newer cars with the higher mileage than the older less mileage ones.

Some examples are- 95 Ram 1500 bought at 120,000 miles, 3 years old. Idiot "T" boned me at 260,000. Not worth fixing.

98 Grand Cherokee, daughter bought it at 130,000 miles, 4 years old with noisy rear end. She gave it to me and took my newer car several years later. At 250,000 mi the rear end went. I put it in 4 wheel drive and drove home noisily with the front wheels pulling me. Cost more for me to buy junk rear-end than what car is worth. $400 from junk yard and they towed it away.

2003 Lincoln Continental- bought at 42,000 mi and 3 years old. Warranty was up at 50,000 mi so we went with the extended warranty, 100,000mi. At 60,000mi the tranny locked up and needed replaced. Called the dealer on Wednesday and they towed to their shop. Thursday they said it needs rebuilt transmission, Friday transmission installed and pick up the car on Friday evening. Cost $50 deductible. It went for another 100,00mi to 142,000. Sold it for the same as I paid for it.

Not all good though. once got a lemon.

Get the CARFAX! For what it costs, very little, it is the best thing you can work with. When I can I don't buy without it. Has answered many questions and doesn't give fast talk like a salesperson who might lie to get your money.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Careful with CARFAX. They have been known to be wrong (my personal experience has proven that, too), so take it with a grain of salt (no pun intended).

Nothing beats an inspection by a qualified mechanic.

Anonymous Hero-

Agree with you on CARFAX. It is not a perfect system. It is an under utilized resource with potential for errors. From my experience I would like to see more information on them but they are more accurate than many seller who wants to dump a car or knows little more than where to put the key in to start it.

I am fairly familiar with the problems with a car and how to detect them so I am the first test. If it looks good, as you said, I have a mechanic friend, who is an excellent technician, closely scrutinize the car if possible (cheap since I give him a case of beer for doing it) and finally the money haggling.

This "system" can sometimes be a slow one or the seller won't wait but it has worked. I believe in letting the first owner pay the highest depreciation. That's why I buy used and not new. Besides that you can buy a new car with lots of problems in the near future.

Interesting no one has mentioned the availability of cars coming off lease. They usually have low mileage due to the penalty costs for over mileage and must be maintained in a minimum condition. The few that I have been involved with have all lasted for a long time or higher mileage.

When I was a teenager a friends father used to buy good cars but ones that needed some work done on them, fix them and then sell them. His "guideline" for the life of a car was GM's 75,000 miles and Ford's 60,000 miles. At least some things have gotten better as we age!

Good Luck, Old Salt

You are following a fools path here ! One owner's experience of a particular model of car can vary vastly with another's, depending on how the cars were driven, and what size the engine is.

I will go out on a limb here and say the newer vehicle may be the better buy. I f the older vehicle was /is so brilliant, why is the owner wanting to let it go ? Don't write off economic common sense here, including cost-of-ownership! 10 yrs old is 10 yrs old, and will probably cost more to run anyway.

welcome to the fool party

Are you the main Host?

Thanks for the invite!!

to answer a different question, how to get the best value for money, here is my strategy. look in trade reviews for a reliable car that you fancy, in about the price range you are looking at. Merc vw honda? draw a graph, price against year, and mark on any you see. maybe annotate some dots, ie only 5000miles, this way you get a picture of the market, and any bargains show up.

I did have a 6 year old honda, serviced every year, 6000 miles, so a service every 1000miles. Run into the back of a parked car by SWMBO.

cnc jim

She Who Makes Brewing Obligatory or She Who Must Be Obeyed?

With cars the weak point used to be the engine... they got better and the weak point was the body...they got better and the weak point was the running gear...

They got better and there was a sweet spot where cars were V reliable...

Then they added a load of electronic crap and sensors which are the main weakness now

When in doubt clean up all the body earth points... 'cos if the electronics go wrong even a main dealer will be unable to help, because without the diagnostics they are screwed.

In the good old days if you dropped a spanner in the engine bay, it would hit the floor... not any more...

I agree with Andy Germany's analysis that a lot of warm running miles are better than a load of short trips.

Del

better roads and highways helped a lot.

"Expensive" in cars is a combination of purchase price, operating costs, depreciation, maintenance & repair, and resale value. If you are looking for the least expensive to run, then go with an economy import model with high mpg and proven reliability such as the Honda, Toyota, Nissan, VW, and stick with the base models of Civic, Accord, Corolla, Altima, Sentra, Jetta, etc. All the brands will have basic features and usually 4 cylinder engines with front wheel drive. They will be easier to operate and maintain since parts and service are readily available. If you need space for a family then choose the larger base models (flagships) of Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler such as Taurus, Impala, and such. The newer companies of imports (Kia, Hyundai, Mazda, Mitsubishi, etc.) are gaining quickly and are very competitive in cost and reliability. Most have long warranties and share parts with their parent companies of Ford, GM, Chrysler, etc.

The BIG THREE brands of GM, Ford, and Chrysler are cheaper at 5-10 years and have good reliability and low regular maintenance costs but depreciate faster and have a shorter life span and higher repair costs. GM is notorious for paint defects, transmission and engine problems, Ford for starters and alternators, Chrysler for engine and transmission weaknesses, and all three suffer from higher service and repair costs (power windows, brakes, radiators, A/C, etc.) The American cars are designed for replacement after 100K miles whereas the imports tend to go past 250K before falling apart. I would avoid the orphaned brands and models like Suzuki since dealers and parts are scarce. Avoid the Fiat and Mini at any price. Also stick to the basic 2 WD and always do a history check for accidents and recalls.(CARFAX). Subaru and other 4WD cars and SUV's have high repair and maintenance costs. Personally I prefer to find rental and fleet cars coming off leases after 2-3 years since they have been on maintenance programs where someone is changing the oil and doing the scheduled services. Tires, brakes, shocks, and alignment checks are essential to prevent excessive wear & tear on the cars since vibrations and bumps lead to more serious suspension, engine, transmission, and A/C problems.

You could run an ad on Craigslist and offer to take peoples' cavaliers off their hands for no cost, you would get 4 or 5 offers pretty quick. I would think if you could hold out for one more, say six cars for example, you would probably have enough resources to keep your favorite cavalier running and on the road.

......you would probably have enough resources to keep your favorite cavalier running and on the road.

You put an "and" where an "or" should be.....

Its a bit like computer programming or electronic logic design!!!

"running" and "on the road" are entirely separate goals when you are talking about a Chevy Cavalier. So many things can go wrong in between!

You are basically repeating my original joke........

I know the US Cavalier (from people here) is a joke, an even bigger joke is they are still bought (and people ask here how to repair them!!)

Have you actually owned one?

I have not driven a US version, but I used to drive the UK built (Vauxhall) version in 1980 occasionally as a company car.....

(how similar or not I could not say to the US version! Maybe someone can clear that up?)

a Cavalier ranks right up there to a 1970's era Harley Davidson, .... parked on the side of the rode with an oil puddle under it.

LOL!!!

road,... not rode.

I still understood.....but thanks for the correction!!

A used car story/strategy: About seven years ago I wanted a used Benz sedan, preferably a C240 with a stick shift. I have relatives in one of the wealthiest towns on the East Coast, USA (not required). I went to the Benz dealer and told him what I wanted. Real estate is so expensive in this town that it does not pay a dealer to keep used cars on the lot as the markup on new cars is much greater and the rich people trade their cars very often, with low mileage, and with wonderful upkeep records usually serviced by the dealer. Dealers in town like this usually just send the tradeins directly to auction. I stayed in touch with a salesperson at this dealership and when the car I was looking for was traded in he gave me a call; I bought the car, a 2002 C240 with 70,000 miles for $9000.00 which at the time was about 2500.00 under Kelly's Blue Book market price. As it turned out the car had a shimmy. Back to the dealer. It was a weekend and there was a sales party going on, purchasers milling about, being served wine and snacks by pretty women, and buying cars. I walked over to the sales desk and started to complain about the shimmy (having shabby clothes on might help here). The sales manager gave me the sheesh sign and took me into his office so no one could here me complain. long story shorter.....They installed 4 new tires, gave the car a complete alignment overhaul and charged me nothing. Their reputation and integrity is very important to them. The car now has 209,000 miles and has only cost me minor replacement type repairs. I've used this strategy to buy several cars and had wonderful luck with each of them.

That shabby clothes thing is something else.

I took my 911 for service, and after work I had a friend drop me off so I could pick it up. I was working my work clothes, (Which was company issued uniform) When I asked for the keys for my car, they refused to give it to me, his response he only allowed to hand the keys to the owner of the car.

I started laying into the clerk behind the counter, until he invested a little more time and finally looked at me, he apologized and said he did recognize me and handed me the keys.

I have driven quite a few second hand Mercs, I like them, but several of them exhited "shimmy" especially when taking high speed corners on the autobahn over joins in the road surface.

If the tyres and rims were good, it was usually the rear shocks and or alignments.....its a Merc "problem".....they are simply sensitive in that area.....still great cars though.

Merc parts in the USA are grossly over priced in my opinion.....

Thanks for the thoughts here--some good tips.

I've got some months to go but I'm targeting older Toyotas and Hyundais with 100K+ miles. Our last Hyundai went to 160K with no major issues and probably could've hit 200 with more repairs (starter, alternator), and the Toyota went to 238K, although that included new bearings, struts, and a whole new exhaust system. Seeing as I drive 10K miles or less per year, I'm thinking I could get 5 more years out of a high-mileage car if lucky and with good maintenance.

since you have time.... the odds are in your favor.

My car is 8 years old and I'm experiencing problems with things corroding or rusting out. Because I live in the Northeast, road salt is a major factor on the longevity of a vehicle.

Others suggested a Carfax report - I wouldn't rely on this alone. I know of vehicles that have been flooded, cleaned up, and sold at auction. It doesn't appear on the report. Don't believe where the dealer tells you it comes from, either. We once bought a used pickup with a "local" owner and later found the repo tag stuck behind the dash.

If you're considering an older model, make sure that sourcing parts won't be a problem. It will need repairs at some point and you don't want to pay $500 for a $50 part because nobody's making it anymore.

My first car I kept for 15 years, bought new in 1983 and sold it in 1998. I have never bought a new car since. Currently I own a 1998 Volvo, a 1999 Jeep Cherokee Limited (salvage title), and a 1991 Lincoln (soon to be 25 years old and in mint condition).

Having put some context on my answer, either car could be good or bad. It's not just miles that affect a car, it's time too. Time can cause a car to fall to pieces, such as upholstery, window seals, window regulators, belts and hoses, gaskets, ball joint seals, CV joint boots, valve seals, gaskets, etc., etc.

Because your stated priority is to go INEXPENSIVE, I would go with the 10 year old car with 60,000 miles. Why? (First, these cars would NOT be the same price, unless the 10-year old car is a foreign luxury/sport car!) The insurance would be cheaper for the 10 year old car (won't need collision coverage) and 120,000 miles on the newer car doesn't just affect the engine/transmission! High mileage on the newer car means you could be getting a noisy car that needs alignment, suspension/brake work, paint work, etc. Highway miles can be ROUGH on a car, depending on the road conditions. I drive 110 miles each day, nearly all interstate, and it is rough on the vehicle's body/suspension, due to pavement cracks and potholes. But my priority was also INEXPENSIVE, so I drive the 1999 Jeep with a salvaged title.

I only get 21 mpg on the Jeep, but, it is paid for, rugged, expendable, cheap insurance, inexpensive parts, disposable when I wear it out, only cost me $1100. Costs more in gas than a newer model, but my overall expenses even with gasoline are FAR CHEAPER than car payments, comprehensive car insurance, etc.

Having said all the above, let me condition my remarks: I do all my own maintenance, to include oil changes, lube, brake jobs, changing belts/hoses/alternators and the like. In short, I pay attention to my vehicles so they never leave me stranded. I spend my hard-earned money elsewhere, where it counts. Not for glitz, keeping up with the neighbors, latest gadgets, etc.

Check those stats on the interstate high mileage vs. local low mileage driving. In almost every case listed here the higher mileage/day or week or month or whatever, the higher mileage on an interstate will cause much fewer mechanical problems. Just the facts that there are fewer pot holes/mile, fewer braking/mile, less braking/mile, fewer reckless taxi cabs and the miles are put on with fewer engine start ups and shut downs gives an advantage to the more miles/year car.

Worked in the suburbs with some interstate driving, New Triumph TR-6 had infrequent mechanical problems (compared to other cars of this type). Was transferred to an office in the city with less distance but the car soon needed my attention every week end. Why? more starts and stops (brakes, universal joints, trans, rear end), bad surfaces on local interstates (suspension, tires, shocks, steering) and pot holes (just about every things). This does not include damage from other cars. Warning- In the rain never drive through pot holes, you never know what depth they are! Have seen some 2' or more deep with cars stuck up to the frame in them.

TR-6's were prone to mechanical failures at certain mileages. 40,000mi trans, 50K rear-end, mufflers every 30,000, brakes 10K-15K mi, universal joints (there were 6 of them) one every 5K-10K, engines if not careful 75K. I got 75K from the trans and never replaced the rear-end. Got real good at universals though! Always did all the work myself, no one else would touch them. Sold it with 110,000 miles on it. Got so good at it others begged me to work on their TR-6's.

Also if time kills a car why are their so many restored ones around out on the road, especially '65 Mustangs? They are 50 years old.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Quick read through and I didn't see an important part of the operating cost which is, of course, insurance costs. 10 year old car with in a minor accident will likely be a write off, and as well, 5 year old car just might be a write off also, depending on your insurer and policy. No one plans on having an accident, but they are, after all, accidents.

Don't know the particulars where you are, but for me, the newer the vehicle, the lower my insurance policy cost in my experience.

But if the car is fully covered, you will get the "worth" of the car back from the insurance, so where is the problem....?

If another car was the problem, his insurance pays anyway.....

I have bought cars back very cheaply from the Insurance company and repaired them.....and then driven them for many miles more!!!

I don't understand your problems....

Insurance on an older car is cheaper because it doesn't take much of a fender-bender to total the car; therefore, you don't need collision insurance. Just liability. In my area, as in most areas, liability coverage is cheaper than comprehensive collision + liability.

How does time damage a car? The answer above is outdated. A '65 Mustang is a different build from a 25 year-old 1991 Lincoln. The big difference? The use of plastics. The use of sensors made of plastic in the engine, the use of weight-saving parts made of plastics, etc. (Really? You haven't noticed the difference between the build quality/materials of '60s autos and today's autos? Why would you even attempt to make a comparison??) Let me give you a rundown on how time alone has done damage to my Lincoln: Plastic in electric window regulators degraded and cracked-they failed. Plastic in trunk pull down latch mechanism crazed and cracked-failed. Plastic in wiper motor failed-mechanism failed. Chrome accents on dash failed. Plastic switches on door panels failed, switches fell apart. Plastic gears in odometer turned nearly to powder-failed. Urethane bumpers and body accents failed. Urethane foam of headliner failed. Plastic headlight lenses/turn signal lenses/brake light lenses crazed and failed. Clear coat paint--failed. List goes on and on. I have replaced all as they failed. Car is garage-kept....doesn't matter. Plastic fails over time; it oxidizes. (Car only has 90,000 actual miles on it....I know because my parents bought it new late in 1990.)

I don't live in the northeast of the U. S. I live near Birmingham, AL. But, I also drove over-the-road for 7 years all over the country. Over 1,250,000 miles. I know how all the roads are, in all states, at all times of the year, in all weather, interstates, state roads, US highways, toll roads, county roads, dirt roads. Mileage tears up a car. Not so much the engine and drive train, but the body and suspension. Give me a 10 year old car with 60,000 actual miles on it any day over a hard-driven 5 or 6 year-old, 120,000 mile car. By my standards (my cars are 17, 16 and 25 years old now) a 10 year-old car is practically brand new.

My car purchases over the last 20 years have all been Peugeots with 200,000km to 300,000km. I replaced one petrol engine at 460,000km with a diesel of unknown mileage. the others were all diesels to start with.

They are are all still going well as daily drivers at 350,000km to 430,000km.

The main things to look for are:

1. quality of build (body, electrics and engine)

2. well maintained

3. no rust

4. no crashes or only minor bumps, ie cosmetic stuff

I think it seriously depends upon your use rather than what has gone before.
The older model 60K in 10 years = av. 6K a year.
The newer model 120K in 5 years - av. 24K a year!
But what are you intending to do with it?
If you intend to only add say 5K a year it will add very little to the 120K model. That is, it will remain "new." and steadily return to an acceptable mileage for the year and resale. However, if you intend to do say 24K a year the old model will quickly total up. Then old and, with a run out high mileage. (scrap?)

My (long dead) uncle wisely taught me as a lad that you can always change the mechanics, but you cannot turn back the age. (and that's assuming you can get spares.) Therefore the residual value must be in favour of the newer model.

Wild cards are such as: In the uk you do not have to tax cars over 25 years old. (they have ripped you off enough.) So a large (heavily taxed) older car could benefit - if you intend to keep it that long? 25 years to qualify. There are more... e.g. antique value, no worries about scratch and dents, etc. but enough.

Unless you intend (as I drive now) to just potter around, having very little use, and with a very low mileage, (my total is 800 miles this year!) i.e. the "fit" being with the older model, then you have no options.

Everything favours the younger model. Even if you thrash it, as long as it's presentable, the year can still repay you. (IMO)

jt.

Councils say they're losing £30 million a year in unpaid parking fines.
If they halve the cost of a fine, they'll only lose £15 million. Just common sense.

Age and deterioration play a major part in the overall wellness of a car, not just mileage. A friend's son bought a beautiful 1991 Corvette last year. The car had one owner and had very low mileage (41K I think). This year he is thinking twice about his purchase influenced by his father. The car rattles, squeaks and requires numerous component replacements. Why? Think of the number of rubber or neoprene components on a car. Quite a few. What about all the "plastic" components. They dry out, are affected by UV radiation and warp or crack with age. I've been fixing my own cars since the sixties and have experienced all of these. All things being equal, go for the newer high-mileage car, as long as it was taken care of and the owner has a record of upkeep.

The Sunday drives at the track make the cars like Corvette shake, rattle, and roll. The exterior is fiberglass which has a shelf life akin to plastics. Why would you do that to your own son?

If I wanted to buy a used car here and now, it would be an Audi with the big diesel engine, maybe even permanent 4WD.

There have been several over the years, starting at 2.4 liter and now at 3.0 liters....

The inside and out handle the years well and look almost like new at 10 years with many cars and their owners....I have two friends right now with such cars, both extremely happy....

The last couple of times I bought secondhand, I would buy the magazines and papers where cars were advertised to be sold.

Mark all the ones that looked interesting and that (on paper at least) seemed to have all I wanted, even the ones over my price range.

I would leave the paper somewhere at home for up to 2 weeks, and then start phoning around, to see what was still available.....

Most of these people were happy to "deal" and reduce their prices dramatically, as they had given up all hope of ever selling!!!

If the price was still not right (many have a super inflated idea of a cars worth!), I would ring them back a week later to see if anything had changed, that is, if I was still searching.

Also, I made copious notes against all the cars I was interested in, on the paper adjacent to the ad.....memory!!

But it was still a bit like shooting fish in a barrel!!!! I got good cars at good prices....

I also got the ADAC (UK AA, US AAA) to do a final checkup before money changed hands, just in case.......

Not phoning on the day of the ad being published and waiting for some weeks, sorted out the "wheat from the chaff" price wise......

I can honestly say, hand on heart, I actually never ever bought a lemon.....a modicum of luck was also needed of course.....I even bought broke cars at scrap prices and replaced or repaired motors, gearboxes and back axles (then!!).....it was fun!!