Do We Engineers See the World Differently?

That's the joke I was thinking of, in the hotel story they were using the ice bucket in the room, i think the Engineer just filled it with water, the scientist stopped to do some calculations to determine exact amount of water needed, and the mathematician lost interest when he saw a solution existed.

Here's what happened - I'll make it as short as I can.

Two local organizations are planning to merge. One of the board members (of one of the organizations) is an environmentalist who leads a group of people who are not friendly to business. She knows that they're in talks regarding a merger, but she hasn't been invited to the closed session executive meetings, so the only information she has is second hand at best. Last month, she came to our town council meeting to try to convince us to vote against the merger.

She started out her speech with what seemed to be accurate information about both companies. Next comes some well placed jabs about the big bad corporation and how all they care about is money. Note that these are both local corporations with one office each - they are not nationwide or even statewide. Next comes her speculation about a conspiracy. She tells us about the closed door meetings, and how they discuss giving each other raises and that they're going to turn it into a monopoly so they can raise our rates at will. She then complains about back room agreements and no transparency. She tells us and our audience that they should not have met in private, how it's against the Brown Act and it's inappropriate for them to do so and that her group is considering a lawsuit.

Okay, time out for a second! I've sat on quite a few boards and I know about closed session meetings (I attend one every month). It's their duty as board members to hold the meeting in closed session, due to the need to keep their negotiating strategy private. The Brown Act specifies what can and can't be discussed in closed session and a merger is a closed session topic.

After she's done with her speech, one of her followers comes to the podium to confirm what she said. The funny thing is that she also wasn't invited to the closed session meeting. These two created a story about a meeting they didn't attend, based on half truths and speculation. And now they're trying to get the rumor mill going.

My feeling is "how dare these two do this". I don't like people thinking they're CSI detectives claiming they've found the smoking gun. I've sees the damage it does and it's just not right.

Over the next few days, I started wondering if I'm the only one who hates when things like this happen? Do others get upset or do they even see the difference between speculation and fact? Do they care? That's when I started thinking that maybe we engineers do see things differently and that we place a higher value on fact and truth? You know, I love watching old 1930's to early 50's movies, because morals and values do matter and character is based on your actions.

What better place to find out about the engineer mind than with a group of my peers - I appreciate all the input given so far - the jokes sure made me laugh and I look forward to a more of your insight.

Thank you.

One thing I learned early on, always bear in mind the source of the information. I invariably question myself about "statements of fact" given by others unless I have first hand information to support them. Perhaps that came from my engineering back ground, perhaps not.

Perhaps it is time to answer each of these supposed ladies questions about how their dress makes their posterior look: "way too damn big for the dress to contain such ass".

That should wake them up to the aroma of the coffee.

These "beeatches" are definitely Alinski types, nothing less than communists angry at being "snubbed" from the "secret" meeting. If but for a few sane people standing in the way, the inmates would already be running the asylum, and in many communities they already are. If you wish, feel free to quote me and tell these huzzies I am waiting on my front porch for them, with my shotgun.

I can see their faces now! Made my day! Thank you.

"He who represents himself has a fool for a client."

And guess who said that?...... an attorney of course.

In the past 21 years, I represented myself 3 times, all for traffic citations(speeding), and won 2 out of the 3 cases. The third case I lost, which was last September, I should have won, I lost due to not pushing on a technicality, (too dam tired, I was travelling for work and came home the night before my court date at 10:00pm, not much sleep).

Also of the first (2) times, I was innocent and unemployed so I challenged it. The second time, the officer, she just join the force a few week prior, was making stuff up on the traffic stop, of which I was able to get it out of her in the case before the judge. That was actually fun, but added stress.

The third time, when I talked to the Asst. DA, he was a real prick, and was so complacent, so I took it to court and requested a 6 member jury.

The whole saying is "He who represents himself has a fool for a client and a simpleton for an attorney."

The warning in the message is that if you are personally invested in the outcome, (or as they say on the cop shows, "You're too close to the case.") then you are likely to let your emotions cloud your judgement and you will fail to be as objective as you need to me.

For some issues, such as traffic tickets, the risk is low ('just money,' and not (usually) a large amount at that) and the emotional investment is also low (I win this and I don't pay the $200, I lose and I do pay. Either way, I've already burned the personal day to show up in court). Now for something with higher stakes, such as, say, imprisonment and/or the Death Penalty, the emotional investment is very high, and one's judgement could be clouded ("If I tell the truth on the stand, they'll kill me. It's not perjury, it's survival." "I can't share this evidence, it'll hang me, better off to burn it so no-one will ever see.") That's where an emotionally detached counsel is a benefit: even an innocent man can say or do the wrong things when defending himself, and accidentally make the jury think he is guilty. An independent council can also correct himself when he mis-speaks, or ask that a poorly-worded phrase be stricken from the record, as his words are not 'testimony,' whereas for the defendant, "Everything he says can and will be used against him."

Then there are those that are guilty, just not guilty of the present crime. They have not been caught yet for the actual crime(s) committed.

There is one Judge, no one eventually escapes. Best to settle accounts while court is not in session on those.

What you said reminds me of something in a book I've read.

You speak of the one Judge who sees all and knows all. There's another judge that will always make us pay. You see him every day when you're shaving!

One way of looking at "hell on earth" is to know that you've done something you shouldn't have and living with the fact that you haven't paid for it. We're our own judge and jury and we do a great job making pay.

James, I like reading your posts. Good stuff here.

Nearly 20 years ago, a very good friend of mine spent hours trying to teach a stubborn young man about forgiveness. I can only imagine the number of times he asked why was this person brought into his life? He tried everything he could think of and he called in his friends to help. He showed him a different life, where not only other people, but God forgives him. This young man was finally broken and he understood what forgiveness was all about. He also learned what willingness was about. Humbled? He sure was. You may have guessed, but that young man was me. To this day, I still thank my dear friend for saving my life.

When I read your post, it makes me sad to hear about people who lack a conscience. My gut feeling is that they do have a conscience, but when that little guy who sits on his shoulder is so strong (the pain from the past was so bad), that he shuts off any feeling of remorse or guilt.

I'd like to believe that there is another solution instead of incarceration or death. There are many "helping" people out there and I feel if someone had the wherewithal to stick with someone as stubborn as me, they should be able to help one of these lost souls.

See, your personal belief regarding criminals values their worth, but only if they repent. I feel the same way. I think the only way this can work is if the perpetrator makes the choice to change and is open to healing the pains from his past.

True change is required. What I mean by true change is that the person not only stops a bad action (shoplifting, burglary, assault, etc) but he no longer has hatred toward his fellow man.

I think that most people in prison do have hatred in their blood. Think about that for a second. A huge building full of people who hate others - we're asking for trouble!

Kind of reminds of the folks rioting in the streets outside the Trump Rally last night in California. Sometimes, certain cities (in California and Illinois) remind me of the quip about the inmates running the asylum.

I am not a Trump supporter, but I will defend his (and any other politician's) right to hold peaceful assemblies for the purposes of getting their message out before the public.

Excellent advice - it should be given to every kid in high school. Maybe our prisons wouldn't be so overcrowded. Thanks for sharing.

They must operate under a different set of ethics rules in Thailand.

can't say.... never been there.

Me either.

But there's a great Thai resturant down the street from my office. I eat there a lot.

I think it's legit, the owner's name is Nunthaporn Treekamol.

Eat at Nun's!

lol..Girlfriend loves Thia, ^{(and indian, Mexican, Italian,...... anything when I'm paying for it)} been meaning to try it.

I have to chime in on that: My wife thinks Thai cooking is great! At out local Thai restaurant, I once ordered some sort of fried fish. Big mistake (for me). I don't like having the entire fish (cooked or not) lying there on my plate staring up at me.

I'm having lunch there, as I type.

#2, Chicken, brown rice.

Never been to Thailand, Wasn't planning on going, now not likely to ever plan on going. Won't even eat Thai food; not out of any jingoism or dislike of the Thai culture, it's just too spicy for my taste, burns on the way in, BURNS!!! on the way out. If I want to feel like I've had a three-foot long red-hot iron par shoved up my backside, I'll ask my boss for more stuff to do at work.

#2, Chicken with brown rice is NOT hot. Chicken with veggies, carrots, pineapple, onions, snow peas, cashews over a bed of rice. Goooooood.

I don't like spicy food either. I demand my Bloody Marys be made from scratch, NO tobasco.

When I'm in an establishment, I always ask if they use mix for bloody mays or make from scratch.

I can post a picture lately, but in the last few years, taverns are trying to out do their competition with the garnishment with bloody Mary's. Pickles, celery, mushrooms, hamburgers, slice of pizza.... All in the same drink.... It looks like a freaking center piece on a table.

That's a little too much for me, I just like a good Bloody Mary.

It's getting harder to find a good scratch made Bloody Mary. You can't in most airport bars.

I do like green olive garnish. Pickles, not so much and celery still OK.

When we go on summer vacation, the wife and I have them. The canned mix is all you can get.

Pickles and mushrooms myself. At Airport bars, I work, too dam hard for the paycheck... And have a spending limit.

Try this appetizer called Angel Wings. They take a chicken wing, remove the bones and stuff it with glass noodles and other goodies. It's absolutely delicious and there is no heat. There is a lot of Thai food that has no heat. My favorite Thai food is called Crispy Shrimp in a Blanket or Shrimp in a Sheet. To die for!

If you're worried about true ethnic Thai food, go to an Americanized place. If you're adventurous, then try an authentic Thai food restaurant, but be forewarned about the presentation - fish served with head still on, etc.

Glass noodles? Sounds a bit hard digest to me - . Not really, we used to grow mung beans in my mom's garden (mainly for sprouts), and I have tried cooking with these noodles, although I obviously had no clue how to BBQ them!

Have you had angel wings? If not, you have to try them. They're delicious and you'll scratch your head wondering how they get all that food inside of a chicken wing? I still don't know.

I have a very good friend of mine who is Thai - in fact I have a few Thai friends. He told me that his religious belief is that he's reincarnated and when he comes back, his physical body is based on the deeds of his previous life. He has a huge incentive to be a good hearted person or he'll come back as an ant.

I will say that I've met some very mean Thai people as well, but as a culture, I'd say there are some pretty good Thai people. So, maybe, just maybe their morals and values are higher than ours = a more trusting court system.

.

Maybe the mean ones, are still hungover from being an ant.

"He has a huge incentive to be a good hearted person or he'll come back as an ant."

I always wondered, how does an ant perform good deeds so he can come back as something 'higher up the chain?' Or is it because their lives are so pre-programmed and regimented that they automatically move up afterwards, or after X lives as an ant? Are ants ant other insects the equivalent of the Penalty Box in Hockey?

You know, that's a good question. Next time I see my friend, I'm going to ask him. I hope I don't make him lose faith and he stops being a nice guy!

I see a bath tub thread developing here....

Rub a dub dub! Ha ha!

There's the butcher (we talked about pork chops)

The baker (yes, some of the talk here is half-baked - hahahaha)

And the candlestick maker - ... anyone? ... Buehler ... Buehler