Mystery Fires in California

It's possible that California is quite literally going to blazes....

http://www.hcn.org/issues/49.21/wildfire-what-fire-researchers-learned-from-northern-california-blazes

No explanation of why metal was melted, houses totally destroyed and trees untouched.

Well if you've ever witnessed a car burning first hand the heat is unbelievable....and if you've ever tried to burn an evergreen pine tree, you would know that they are practically indestructible.... burning embers landing on the asphalt shingle roof of a wooden house, say goodbye....try it with a concrete block house with steel stud construction and a steel roof and doors...

If you are suggesting that this is some type of sinister plot, as some have suggested about 9/11, you are on the wrong forum. There are chem trials forums for the conspiracy crowd.

Most of the metal that was melted is Aluminum, which has a melting point of 1,200F, much lower than the steel bodies.

The trees are most likely wetter than the houses and there is considerable separation between them. Embers are more likely to ignite a house than a tree, because the wind was blowing hard enough to not allow embers to stay in the trees. The were likely caught by the house structure as the wing blew around them.

"The “green” wood in living trees contains large amounts of water. The moisture content of wood (the amount of water) is expressed as a percentage of the dry wood weight. The green moisture content of wood is normally above 60 percent, and can range as high as 120 percent for some species. Moisture content of greater than 100 percent means that there is more water in the wood than there is dry wood substance."

Moisture Content of 'Seasoned' Firewood - Trace: Tennessee ...

Of course no amount of logic is enough for some.

That's what I think happened, but you might do a web search.

The usual snide remarks. Do me a favor - please don't bother to respond to any of my comments in future.

Do me a favor - please don't bother to respond to any of my comments in future.

Are you also suggesting that the land is a tinderbox where people live? That they're trying to keep it from burning all the time which just makes the situation worse?

I'm at a total loss as to how you could possibly think that.

I'm just trying to find a link between the fires.

If you are wondering if years of mis-management, or misguided fire suppression practices could be to blame, then I think yes.

The white man, and his "progress" changed the entire character of forests to the point that natural burns were not allowed.

Changing weather/climate patterns have aggravated this misuse.

SE covered this in #1.

I only read his first link then got distracted.

Blue Diamond matches could be the link you missed.

I'm thinking that matches are probably a more likely culprit than microwaves.

Certain man-made polymers actually do burn hotter than natural materials, and thin steel is not that hard to get hot enough to lose its form, and appear to have melted.

Blast furnace conditions do not exist in these fires, but a fire sweeping up a hillside is a scary thing, and it draw a lot of lower air into the higher flames and heat. Sometimes the fires can move so fast vertically, they do not have to time to spread out laterally.

Blast furnace conditions do not exist in these fires,

even firestorm where it creates a somewhat blast furnace conditions?

Tinfoil hat time! Must be a conspiracy!!!

Donald Trump's pants?
Del

"Should we bring back the Smokey The Bear?

Or investigate as arson?"

BOTH.

Why rule out arson first. How about ruling out boy and girl scouts cooking marshmallows and weenies at a cookout, first, then arson ?

You seem confused. Boy and girl scouts together cooking s'mores and weenies is what happened, and that is clearly stated in the statute as arson, by the stupid leaders that could ever allow such a festive atmosphere in the brush. I suspect other shenanigans in the brush, seeing as this is California we are talking about, and Southern California at that.

Could have been a botched mob hit and car burn up? That is no boy scout fire.

You sure it isn't endangered kangaroo rats that have evolved an opposable thumb and are now flicking their Bic?

Read some in-depth reports on these fires.

NOTHING has been ruled out.

CALFire has said that every fire investigation assumes “It’s a crime scene for us until we determine otherwise,” said Ron Eldridge.

“If there are high velocity winds, there’s every reason to suspect that power lines are a source,” said Jon E. Keeley, a fire expert with the United States Geological Survey in California. “We have many documented cases of power lines igniting fires during these high wind events.”

Where Did the Napa Fire Begin? Investigators Scour the Ashes - The .

Another thing about high velocity winds in a very dry, possibly sandy, definitely dusty location - high levels of static electrical discharge....I have never witnessed that start a fire, but I have seen new cotton seedlings "burned up" by static from wind storms with lots of sand movement.

Apparently, in California, all personnel resources are busy hunting (still) for the Zodiac killer.

Of course, all the fires are arson. How else would they start. No storms mean no lightning. This is California

• if someone throws out a lit cigarette butt, or cigar, that is effectively arson by stupidity - go to jail
• if someone pours gasoline (etc.) and lights it with a match, they have to be terrorists - go to military trial as illegal combatant (should)
• if some idiot throws out a colorless glass bottle (say orange juice container), and the sun causes that to light a grass fire - go to jail
• if someone just looks at a hillside wrong in California and says three ugly words in a chant, fire will start - go to jail
• if a Texan drives through California, and stops to pee on the side of the road, and it causes a fire - go to jail
• if kids playing with fireworks cause a fire, the parents - go to jail
• if a religious extremist is driving around in the California hills, with an arson kit, the officer that stops him - goes to jail
• if children go play with matches in areas with clumps of grass and make a "camp fire", it is arson - go to jail
• if someone is stupid enough to go camping in the dry brush areas, and has a campfire for any reason, it is arson - go to jail

Californians may eventually wake up to real reality, but I would not hold my breath on that account, in anticipation of changed behavior.

Heard from a reliable friend(there you go, ...)

A person (Potential arsonist), was caught in the Bonsal area, a site of another fire, farther south. He was with a man who was from Ventura (Where the Thomas fire started)..

Couple of dots...--Just connect, or not...

...and both were wearing a lot of leather, black army boots, with black sweatshirt with the ⊕ symbol on them, with a large leather bag over their head, but still wearing glasses (black horn rim) over the bag?

Could this be the work of the elusive Zodiac arsonist?

Not sure of the reason for the mystery, but I do know this. Now that all of them house's are burned up, somebody has got to rebuild them and someone is going to make a pile of dough.

A. Contractor's hiring I.A. 's again ( see braceros ) .

B. Rate increases / fire prone areas ( see California mandatory earthquake insurance ).

Before the fires, the market was for sellers, now it really is.

<...Possible causes?...> Er, how about, the temperature of something combustible exceeded its auto-ignition temperature?

Where do you come up with these ideas!?

It's available in research material held at LynDoor™ Industries' head office.

We don't rule out any possible causes for the source of ignition at the LynDoor™Industries, Spontaneous Combustion Research Labs.

We are currently performing an in-depth study that these could be the cause.

At this point the results are inconclusive because one of our scientists accidentally ignited a near-by pot farm and the tests were delayed while we went into town for some chips and salsa, cheese and crackers and black olives. Oh, and a couple of cases of beer and some vino.

Party on dude!

You can't get me to respond to your inflammatory post
Hmmmm

D'oh, I've responded
Del

Got burned, didn't 'cha.

Hey Lyn, are you using a proprietary mixture in those arrow heads for pyrophoric spontaneous ignition, or it is just something off the shelf?

See #6⇑.

Once the fire starts in this brush land with steep slopes, flash-over and cinders are the means of propagation, and the heat is very intense (like a well-designed furnace), and rate of travel is faster than any fire seen in England.

Since California has moderate seasons, we get a lot of vegetation growth in the spring and summer. It does out in the fall, after a couple years that dead vegetation accumulates. In Northern California, there's been a huge problem with boring beetles killing pine trees by 1000's of acres and in the fall we get acres upon acres of dead grass on the hillsides. They try to keep the road sides clear of excess brush but California figures putting money into a Speed Train, rather than highway maintenance, so we don't do as much as other States in keeping our highways clean. You just drive from outside the State into the State and you can see a noticeable difference. I drove across the Nation recently and I didn't see anything comparable to the dirty highways of California until I got to Denver, CO. Denver, Co is messy. Get outside of Denver and the rest of that State is clean. Then we have the ignition factors. Such as, careless open fires and BBQ's, people throwing lit cigarettes out their car windows, which is quite common, broken glass and lightning and the run of the mill arsonists. Their general rule is if the fire started naturally, they will just let it run its course and only protect areas where their are people living. If it's caused by someone, whether careless or accidental, they will put more effort into putting the out as quickly as possible. Because in the fall, our climate is pretty much still hot and dry and we get pretty good wind, it's easy for fires to get started and spread. All these fires we see today are not the areas that were on fire last year.

Why not harvest dead trees? For that matter, why not terrace all the hills if not cutting clear fire breaks, the terraces would allow for easy harvest of grass and brush for biomass and this would apparently be substantial. The terraced hills would not be ugly, the way I see it. No machine could operate as a harvester on slopes as they have.

Terraces would naturally slow the rate of fire progression up the hills (if my thinking is correct), except for cinder propagation (still biggest issue perhaps).

OR, run massive herds of the goats in these hills, and that way if fire breaks out, there will be ample supplies of Barbacoa. The Barbacoa might be best if the goats were actually harvested and dressed properly for the occasion.

I fail to see why California's failure to see a money-making opportunity, and turning that into a giant money spending opportunity (especially someone else's money) is or should be my problem, as I doubt they care two cents if the whole of West Texas were to similarly have burn problems. I say let them finally and once and for all solve their own problems, once these fires are out. If they want volunteer outside help from other States during these fires, sure help them out, they need it.

After the fires are out, it is high time to work on solving this as this recurs every year, and loud pleas for money coming from prominent politicians there.

Cutting down the trees costs money and California is $846 billion in debt with a $146 billion deficit, which is the highest in the Nation and the California Government see's it more fitting to throw money at a Speed Train. California has been rated the worse managed State in the Union under Gov. Jerry Brown. California has the largest tax base out of all the States, with having 10 million more people than the second largest and Californians are taxed more than the other States. Not counting Federal but we pay State Tax, Sales tax which has recently been increased, increased gas tax, increased vehicle registration fees, now they've included a road usage tax, we have a beverage tax, cigarette tax, junk food tax. Those are things on top of the sales tax. There are a number of taxes in our phone services. Property tax, county tax and the only ones that we get a return on from filing is Federal and State tax. These taxes are not voted on, they are imposed upon us by the State Government. There's way too much wasteful spending. Each time there is a tax increase, they claim a surplus, which only lasts until they've squandered that and then we have another increase and wages are no better than anywhere else. Fact is California has the widest income disparity than any of the other States.

Check this out.. Maybe you won't feel so alone.

Make'a me sick

Because, then the bugs and critters lose habitat..Everybody know that.Plus, it might allow some flatlanders access to those "Protected " lands, and trample them , in search of a fun family outing...

They burn trees in California. Those elite people are burning trees down there.

There are a lot of good theories out there, and a few not so,...

My favorite is that "anti-pot" crusaders went around trying to burn crops, with predictable results.

I always knew there was something wrong with those guys.

Photoshop.. somebody added those letters at the top.

Ahha,, it was the homeless....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/skirball-fire-cause-illegal-cooking-fire-los-angeles-fire-department/

An interesting tidbit of information about the skir ball fire :

Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti declared the fire a, " city wide emergency " .

Which allows the owners of mult-million dollar homes to apply for FEMA aid.

Whereas when a fire happens in an area of the city where less affluent residents live, they are declared, " Displaced " .

The Honorable Mayor apparently know which side his bread toast is buttered on, and will not drop even one slice.

If I were an Islamic terrorist, or any terrorist for that matter, I would target forests because it would create a lot of devastation, loss of property and money and hopefully lives. Our water supplies are guarded, but a fire can be started anywhere with just a match. Certainly fires can be started accidentally or by a natural cause, lightening strike for example, but I would not rule out an act of terror. It is so easy to do and get away with it. With all the commotion created, a perpetrator would be thousands of miles away. Although it doesn't fit the profile of a jihadist (taking responsibility), any way that weakens our country could be considered an act of terror. After all, that is what Islamic militants want to do; destroy our way of life by any means. I'm sure I am not alone in postulating this scenario. It would be an easy strike by a home grown terrorist.

In this country we call people who would do that unstable. There is no relation to terrorism. Just a broken soul. That sad person has no group at home cheering them on or willing to protect them.

People don't want to enjoy the fact that we live in a peaceful land far from those who entire villages are raised and encouraged to hate and worse. (simplified explanation)

If we can't get along with all the perks we have in the US?

Think about how they get along where day to day life is a hell you can't imagine? Maybe try to think about what you can do to help instead of being a fear monger.

So why is it necessary for you to post that anonymously?

Loose translation: what is your connection to the fires?

My wife has often speculated, and she is seldom to never wrong, that all fires in California have been started by intentional actions, even if made to appear accidental, and all started by jihadist that go by the name anonymous poster #2.

You should immediately provide your name, address, and current affiliations and any alibi you wish to provide at your nearest FBI store.

Special note to JE in Chicago: Suppose we put licensed hunters out in the brush country and forests, and have them actively hunt and profile people likely to be starting fires (in an unauthorized manner). As soon as they strike that match (or whatever), shoot them in the leg so they have to try and drag themselves away from the fire.

Wiseguys could have lit these, because we know they came from afar.

Licences hunters shooting people? Isn't that the military's job? So the unlawful manner is to increase participation and reduce cost?

I think a call to the head office of ridiculous ideas that might just work is in order.

Only snipers can prevent forest fires? I'm still not sure about it as I light a lot of controlled fires and I don't want to be mistook.

I'm down with sending in the goats. I love the barbacoa.. terraced avocados to bring them together quickly.

number to Dept of land management?

...it's so hard to believe that none of this is OT

Or give forest rangers weapons? Or have drones with weapons platform capability, so that the arsonists never get away unscathed. Maybe the weapons could be just less than lethal (like a pain-ball gun, but maybe something they can't easily shed).

Goats are good too - maybe they could be trained as watch goats, or just unleash a lot of burros with the goats for "watch dogs".

Anyone that has ever been attacked by an angry burro would know to stay out of his turf.

The drones are kinda a good idea,... but its a large area that makes it unfeasible.... anyways... it goes down hill from there... ah,... What kind weapons?... Napalm maybe?

Let's not make the solution worse than the problem.

Drone swarm:

• Very lightweight "solar" drones (can't see using these at night)
• lightweight battery powered, non-weaponized drones as scouts all over the zone affected or likely for arson
• mother drone or queen bee if you prefer, with paint ball Gatling gun
• all drones are IoT ready, and can send texts to local authorities on suspect's position and heading.
• If response time limit is exceeded, then the entire swarm is enabled to "swarm attack" the suspect(s) in whatever manner they can to disable or to disallow escape.
• Local townspeople can also be alerted to come out and help round up suspect(s), and God help if the people get to them before LEOs.

Problem with the goats, if they are like sheep, is that they nub everything down to the ground and often pull up the root stalk. This prevents the same tuft from regrowing (think of a green onion, cut , off,and regrowing.) The pasture would have to wait til the next spring, after snow and rain irrigation prompted the last years' seed into growing again.

That was one of the reasons (there were others involving fences etc.), for the Range Wars between the sheep herders and the Cattlemen. There would be no grass left for the cattle after the sheep went through.

I have seen goat cleared hills here in So. Cal, but then you risk the problem of uncontrolled runoff from heavy rain, mudslides, and the like.

Always something...

... the problem with you're argument is that we're merely talking about eating the goats in some nice barbacoa, but it can be made with beef as well. Well propose beef if that will help prevent soil erosion and out of control forest fires.

It's becoming painfully obvious that bovines with fixed with non lethal solar attack drones and fresh salsa need to be released into the wilds of California.

And more (a lot more) high wind speed wind turbines to pull the energy out of the winds?

Beef don't eat EVERYTHING like goats do.

I took a class from a soil scientist (They object to the title Dirtologist) about a project in Africa to try to convince the locals that large goat herds damaged the soil. It turned out in the study that running goats vastly improved the soil due to fertilization. The study area was dubbed "Moonscape" because the area the goats ran in was reduced to bare dirt (Sorry - SOIL). The measure of soil quality was humic acid evaluation. Humic acid is the primary organic content of healthy soil. It turned out that Moonscape had about three times the humic acid of areas protected from the goats. When a section of Moonscape was "protected" from goats it grew a tremendous amount of grass and shrubs after the first rainfall and far outproduced local agricultural areas when planted with food crops and then protected from the goats.

Turned out the solution was to rotate crops and grazing areas to maximize goat and crop production.

California has a feral hog problem. Maybe it's time to start a feral goat problem. I've always thought that miniature Kentucky fainters make cute pets.

plus,... the goats would eat themselves to death. Whether its over indulgence,... but most from eating toxic plant material

OK, then you make barbed wire, or other fences, and allow goat grazing on a strip of selectable width, probably on sloped terrain, then allow cattle to graze on the terraces.

Problem solved, and the ranchers of these herds will be required to sit in the long halls and thank the Allfather they survived long enough to witness peace among them, and good will. If not, then we go to war over it.

The problem with California is that Vikings have not invaded there in a long time, unless it was the Minnesota Vikings.

We could bulldoze SoCal into a flat plain. Then there are no more hills for the fires to run up and down and no hills for mudslides to run down. And by golly, the LA basin wouldn't have a pocket for polluted air to hang up in.

The rich who want a view could put their houses on stilts, taller stilts for richer folk.

It's a win-win-win-wind turbine heaven.

Which leg ? The left, right, or middle one ?

Fielder's (and streamer's) choice.

Maybe drones with paint balls. I worry about the fire hazard of drones with lithium ion battery packs, though.

It was posted anonymously so I would not be mistaken for a true terrorist and have the SWAT team at my door. Just the mention of terrorist or jihadist these days sends up red flags. Why is it so hard to think that there are people capable of doing harm to large masses of people. During the world wars, it was called sabotage, a very effective strategy. It was used in the U.S and in every war zone.

You are hiding for no reason. If the FBI, or HS wants to ID you, they can get a warrant for your IP address. No problems.

"I would target forests because it would create a lot of devastation, loss of property and money and hopefully lives."

That was a proposed Japanese tactic during WWII.

Google "balloon bombs".

Welcome to Hell, California...

You can't make this stuff up: (from Wikipedia)

Occasionally Hell was referenced in the press, typically in relation to the weather:

• Columnist Art Ryon mentioned in his September 7, 1955, column in The Los Angeles Times that on September 1 it was 110 degrees in Los Angeles, yet only 105 degrees in Hell.
• On October 17, 1958, The Los Angeles Times published an article, LA's Hotter Than Hell--Only 97 There, when Los Angeles reached 104 degrees the same day.^[3]
• According to a UPI news report, it snowed in Hell at least once, causing many to remark, "it was a cold day in Hell".
• On 2015, an Interstate 10 bridge 9 miles from Hell collapsed, leading The Los Angeles Times to report that "It's not the pit of Hell, but it's close".^[3]

There were several roadside signs referencing Hell, including one near Indio, California, which read, "100 miles of desert ahead--right through Hell".

In her book, Riverside County, California, Placenames: Their Origins and Their Stories, Jane Davies Gunther notes that Hell "was consigned to oblivion when the California State Highway Department bought it, rather than make an interchange for it, thus making it impossible for anyone to go to Hell in Riverside County".^[2]

A song entitled "Hell, Ca., Pop. 4" was featured on the 1990 album "Blackout in the Red Room" by Love/Hate.

So far, the Thomas Fire and the Skirball Fire have been (officially announced...) as both having been started by cooking fires in camp grounds... Haven't heard about the other three socal fires...

Whether that qualifies the (California) fires as being started by natural, or unnatural, causes remains to be officially determined as to whether or not the (campers) were trying to cook (organically)...

Every fire not caused by lightning or some oddball static electricity effect in those extreme wind conditions where the ambient humidity is at rock bottom, those all qualify as human caused, and should be classified at intentional when a burn bad is or was in effect.

actually, who says these fires aren't natural in other ways... if not cause by campers, it'll because of lighting. That was pretty common I believe on the Midwest plains. Before it was settled.

This is not settled - science that is. Lighting is pretty sparse out in the California hills, but is truly more likely to be found near housing units and businesses.

Lightning is sort of hard to come by when there is not rain, and has not been rain in months. Grass fires in the Midwest bear little resemblance to what we are talking about in California, since (1)no slopes in Midwest (to speak of), and (2) totally different fuel composition, since the brush and trees have more terpene content than do grasses.

It is the terpene content that greatly changes the game for a flash over, taller fires, etc.

This is not settled

ok,... before Laura Ingalls then ....

Grass fires in the Midwest bear little resemblance to what we are talking about in California, since (1)no slopes in Midwest (to speak of), and (2) totally different fuel composition, since the brush and trees have more terpene content than do grasses.

I was just using the plains as an example...

James Stewards next question will be: "Ok, without lighting, tell be how the fires started then"

P911: "maybe they started by static...."

James Steward: "Ok, sound reasonable"

P911: "Nice talking to you, James"

Lyn: "Why don't you two grow up"

P911 - "we don't grow up because we don't want to."

Wow,... very good,.... for an apprentice... ...

Hey James.... what's this?

Probably where I am headed, if I don't straighten up...

I am not ready for the rocking chair on the front, or the back porch just yet.

A Rockin' good time!

looks dangerous... how's it work?

It's obviously an azimuth and elevation adjustable stepladder stand. Kenny would use one to change a lightbulb over the shark tank.

Now, it is for all of CR-4 to see that you can lead a (horse) to ''water'', but you can not necessarily get (it) to admit to ''getting'' what was, originally, a vegan joke...

The extraterrestrials from Vega find that highly insensitive....

Please corroborate your claim with a completely un-tampered video, if not with an actual public appearance by an official spokes-vegan...

Unfortunately, since vegans are on a vegan diet, they eat each other before they can be filmed. I did manage to get an unretouched post-it-note that was left over after the feeding frenzy. (I don't think vegans will do well on this planet)

Your premise of a species that is sentient enough to develop writing that conviently reads like current-day english, while simultaneously practicing mutual cannibalization as an automatic response to the impending threat of being filmed, somehow challenges the boundaries of plausible logic just a little too much to be believed. Have you personally witnessed such a frenzy, and at least filmed the results. I think not...

you sure its not a hat?

Q.E.D. ...