The H1B Visa Crunch

<...lose your top talent to Canada or the UK...> What a pity!

This has become a hot topic for many reasons.

However, notwithstanding current racist administration policy, I believe these points bear repeating:

“Our member companies have concerns about a point-based system, which would rely on someone in D.C. figuring out our labor needs.”

And, overall, he said, “merit-based systems don’t expand the number of merit-based immigrants, instead they take a hacksaw to family-based immigration.”

“The Chamber doesn’t see having less immigrants as raising the standard of living for Americans,” he added. “Immigrants create jobs, drive cars, buy homes. We don’t think we need less immigrants. So we are wary of seeing proposals for merit-based when it is really a bill that reduces immigrant."

While director of engineering for an active noise cancellation company needing acoustics engineers, we were forced to hire from England, where the technology had its roots, China and Russia to acquire the talent needed for active noise control development. It is NOT an easy, fast nor inexpensive process.

We would not have gone through the process or the expense, if talent had been available here.

Second thing out of your mouth is political speech. Not only that it is phoney.

Stop it!

The material you are quoting from apparently has no verifiable source, since you do not cite them.

We need to end the lottery system of immigration, and also chain migration where the cousin of someone's aunt gets to come in and mow down Americans. Americans are sick of this crap. All we are asking is a fair shake, an end to the lies about immigration, and an end to mass migration for the sake of either cheap labor, or a block of "guaranteed" votes from people who should have the right to vote in our country's elections.

Other than this, I tend to agree that needed personnel from outside the U.S. need better work VISA, and a path to citizenship if they want it. You want to retain the good talent, especially if they can agree with the basic principles of this country.

If they don't like this country, why are they here in the first place? If they want to harm people here, then we need them gone somewhere else. America first.

That's reality. deal with it.

I'm quoting from the source in the original post. Read it.

You two can take it from here.

My condolences, I totally glossed over that. Sorry for your indigestion.

Reading it, now that does require an extra thirty seconds before I tee off.

ROFLMAO! This stuff is just too much fun!

What saddens me is that two groups of supposedly grown up men in a room, cannot sit down and come up with a single inclusive agreement on what the new policy will be, and stop poking each other in the eye long enough to sign it. It really makes our country look stupid, when the best we have (so to speak), has to run out of a closed-door meeting with some made-up S***-hole comments, claiming POTUS said this, when clearly others in the room at the time heard nothing like that other than the entire room going off non-stop with expletives and four letter adjectives. Grow up for crying out loud. We already have enough pots calling the kettle black.

Actually, I have been to Haiti multiple times.

While the Hatian people are fine, Haiti is a $hithole.

Well a 7.0 earthquake in 2010 and another 2012, and hurricanes have not helped the situation....no money, 10 mil people live on less than a buck or two a day...nearly 6% of the people have aids...gang violence rampant...poorest country in the Americas...just a matter of time before one big hurricane wipes it off the map....

I was there during the eighties, before the earthquake.

However, your points are all good.

One of the problems is that America keeps coming in with Military aid packages and relief, when Haiti gets her people in a bad fix.

They (U.S. influencers) knock over whoever the latest dictatorial despot is there, and some other greedy bastage takes over. The people

have no power, no luck, and no chance. No wonder they want out. We need to figure out what real compassionate conservatism looks like

when it visits Haiti, so that we can infect these folks with the will to:

1. Self-govern by the will of the people, not by the will of one greedy autocrat
2. determine what they can do (legally and ethically) in the international community to improve the country's income
3. Begin to plan exigencies to cover natural disasters they are prone to as earthquakes, hurricanes, pestilence, etc.
4. Clean up their own optics (how they appear to other nations), so they are more attractive.

"We need to figure out what real compassionate conservatism looks like"

It may be hard to find, because the most compassionate role model I can find was a liberal.

Jesus: "no,... not that kind of love.... "

And you go from compassion straight to child molestation?

You realize that the Jesus of the Roman Catholics is also the same Jesus of the Lutherans, the Mennonites, the Baptists, the Muslims, even the Unitarians, and those of the Baha'i faith.

The message doesn't change because some of the messengers were perverts on the side.

Go easy on the kid, sir.

We don't know what took place that brought that up.

Jesus has nothing in common with that ugliness.

Religious Belief is one thing, that I’m pretty tolerant of,... now, when it comes to religion as an organization and of its pompous hypocritical leaders, I’m pretty critical of it.

and oddly enough, people get defensive about when one is critical of those pompous hypocritical leaders, probably because they don’t recognize the deference between belief and religion.

I don't believe in deference, especially not to politicians. We are all just citizens.

They keep trying to create separate classes or castes, and every time they do, us citizens need to remind them of just who they are, and who we are.

330 million people being put off for the supposed (and not actual) benefit of some 700,000 people does not make sense. That is what they (some politicians) expect us to swallow, and just keep going down the road like nothing just happened.

Day 3. How far will it go?

330 million people being put off for the supposed (and not actual) benefit of some 700,000 people does not make sense.

700,000, That's what they want you to think,... add in chain migrations, and your up in the 10's of millions. 37,000,000 and 57,000,000 .... depending on the final.

"probably because they don’t recognize the deference between belief and religion."

And those people end up very easy to manipulate.

How about Religion,... by name only....

If this pope is "messing up", it would not be a first.

Just look back at History, and there are a number of occurrences.

Popes are still only just human, and are not, and never were infallible. Only Jesus never fails.

Never confuse the Man with the followers. It is unfortunate when the present Earthly leader seems to be confused about some of the prominent issues of the day.

never complained about Jesus,... only the people that where in charge and making money and power off him.

"Jesus has nothing in common with that ugliness."

I know, it's just infuriating when it's even HINTED that someone doing that ugliness is trying to claim that 'God told them to do it.'

Children are forced to grow up way too soon as is, and anything that destroys their innocence just fills me with rage. We should PROTECT the children, not EXPLOIT them.

No chit... Jesus pointed out.. not that kind of love... see post #48

In your mind, but I beg to differ. Conservatism is about finding that one lost sheep, whilst the others remain in the fold. Conservatism is about recognizing that payment must be rendered for deeds done, and the greatest love was one willing to give up untold power and riches to become one of us, and then lay down his life in our stead.

Not only that, He bore the whole consequence and defilement of sin... and conquered it by that, so that we may live forever. If, and only if, we believe in Him.

Belief is only the first requirement of becoming a disciple. You must also repent, and be baptized for the remission of sins. That is the way the Book reads. This is just meant to be informational, and not condemnatory of anyone. I do not dictate to anyone how to belief or practice their faith. It is between them and the Higher Power.

Then why do you advocate shunning the lost sheep (hating immigrants), dividing the fold into 'cliques' that are told to hate each other (promoting racial/religious hatred), denying payment for deeds done (against paying workers a wage they can live on), and extolling the virtues of hoarding riches and power (the near-worship that is bestowed on Corporate power and the wealth/influence of the uber-rich).

Granted, you personally may not have these values, but the people you and the other Republican voters elect to represent you show these values, and you know that line in the Good Book: "Judge a man by the company he keeps."

Please stop writing in your personal interpretation of what I am talking about, because you are way off track with your response. You could not be more wrong, even to the appearance that you are projecting your own attributes.

Why do you (and those in your group) apparently despise people who work hard and are successful? What is it with that?

That so-called line in the Book you refer to does not exist, except maybe in the Old Testament. So you would judge Jesus by the company he kept? A former prostitute, an adulteress, a tax-collector, some dirt poor fishermen? Really? Could it be that Jesus was drawing all manner of people to himself, because He was the embodiment of love, not hate, and was in favor of their success, not their failures, and He was working to bring them to freedom from their chains? We all have a New Covenant (contract) by which to interact with God. The words of the contract are written in blood, not stone. Time, and our failures cannot erase the contract.

You have been called into freedom, why would you return to bondage?

You judge a tree by what it produces, not where it is planted.

it wasn't that great before the earthquake either. And the money that was donated for rebuilding,... evaporated.

"and also chain migration where the cousin of someone's aunt gets to come in and mow down Americans."

Um, you can't sponsor "the cousin of someone's aunt" for immigration, only immediate relatives; spouse, children, brothers, sisters, mother, father, father-in law, mother-in-law.

You want your grandparents over, you need to come over, become naturalized, bring your parents over, wait for THEM to become naturalized, then wait for parents to bing THEIR parents over.

Then why are so many immigrants chickens coming over the border, hey chickens are peeps too! When it turns into a chicken chain migration, that is just too much.

Like they say at Chik-Fil-A: Eat morE Chik'n.

"Then why are so many immigrants chickens coming over the border, hey chickens are peeps too!

When it turns into a chicken chain migration, that is just too much."

When political borders get in the way of our ancestral migration routes, we avians just ignore them. After all, it is difficult to see where one country ends and another begins when you travel by air.

And since this is an Engineering site, why don't we try and look at "the Immigration problem" from an engineering perspective. We have people migrating across the border that we do not want to migrate. First question: WHY are they migrating? When troubleshooting a machine, it is traditional to ask the operator what the machine is doing wrong, not to ask the CEO. So let's talk to the migrants themselves to see why they are coming over. Perhaps there's some 'low hanging fruit' we can use to stem the tide. If they're coming because they love the itallian beef from a particular sandwich shop, for example, perhaps we can convince that shop that it would be profitable to open a new location south of the Rio Grande. If they're crossing the border to follow the seasonal ripening patters of the various farmed crops, perhaps we can create a "seasonal farmhand" type of visa so the workers can come in without hassle, harvest the crops without harassment and pay their fair share of taxes on the income they earn in the country.

Not all of these low-hanging fruit ideas are serious, I don't want to get political here, but they bring up valid points: Can we do something simple that will be to everyone's mutual advantage? The final result may not be simple, or it may not be to equal benefit for all, but, just like dealing with a malfunctioning machine, if we drill down to the root cause(s), we'll have a better chance at a permanent solution than it we just slap bandages over the symptoms.

Yes, and when traveling in space, the aliens cannot likely tell one country from another at all, and further out, may have a hard time seeing that any lives here at all.

They migrate because they live in S-hole countries, while have an A#1 toilet here. Who doesn't want a clean, nice smelling place to poop?

The "seasonal farmhand" used to be called a "bracero", and this began maybe during WWII, or maybe it was just after. Then came the flood of illegal entries, perhaps correlating with America's demand for illicit drugs, or perhaps not.

One thing to seriously do is build the wall in areas that are easy to cross over, and channel the migration to the actual "doors" in the wall so that people can be directed to the appropriate channels where they will do the most good (and in more than a few cases, it will be back where they came from).

As far the the DACA deal goes, no budget, no deal, and no DACA without over 60-75% of the real wall (that is my suggestion, nobody else is saying that). Amnesty deals don't work, it is just dangling the carrot for more immigration.

Chain and lottery system must stop, it is just plain dangerous, and foolish with our children's futures.

After all, it is difficult to see where one country ends and another begins when you travel by air.

Travel at night,.. and your can see....

Take North and South Korea for example... can you see the difference now?

Well, that's an extreme example, but you are right, you can tall the border between countries there...

...as long as you don't mistake SK for an island, and NK as dark ocean.

I wonder if NK makes Trumps list of "poop-hole" countries.

Holes are for the more economic developed country's ,...I not think NK could afford a hole...

" and a path to citizenship if they want it ".

Truth be told, they don't want it, I have encountered many a Latino who has told me, " This was Mexico once, it will be Mexico again ".

Then there are many people from primarily Mexico, who after having lived in the United States for 20+ years, can't speak English.

I've met, worked with many different people's from a lot of different countries : Vietnam, China, Japan,Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay. And they all, within 5 years, could speak fairly decent English.

And they came here legally.

And they were in the process of getting their U.S. citizenship.

The main reason big companies push for the Visa program is because it is the modern form of slavery.

Basically this is how it works : companies say there is a shortage of workers ( actually there is no shortage of workers, there is a shortage of workers that will work for the bare minimum and the companies know it ) .

So the companies appeal to the government and the government knowing that if a company can bring in slaves ( indentured servitude ) they get more tax money.

And companies know that they will get a refund from using slave labor, as well as higher profits from people who are willing to do do more work for less pay.

I have seen this approach happen in two industries : A. Nursing & B. Trucking

In Nursing, the government brought in a lot of Asian nurses. The companies sponsored the workforce and the workers had to agree to work for a company for several years ( or they would be sent back ) then they would pay them less, have them work more and they didn't have to hire U.S. born nurses ( who expected higher wages ) they made more profits.

Of course patient care suffered, because our training here is better than their training there and the nursing homes would look the other way.

Then I saw the same thing happen in trucking, the companies were bringing in drivers ( not drivers yet, but people who were going to be drivers )

Of course the motoring public suffered because they couldn't speak, read or write English, couldn't interpret road signs, and in their home countries, the bigger vehicle has the right of way ( anyone can go to YouTube and watch videos and see how crazy they drive ) and they got into more wrecks.

I could say more, of the truth, from a laymen's perspective, but I'm sure I would piss off a whole lot of people, but maybe that's a good thing.

Apparently the moderators here who don't normally allow these topics, but maybe they do today.

After all these years, we still have the same old song and dance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeuaTpH6Ck0 (YouTube video, with Sound)

"Haven't you heard? Clink, clink."

That is still one of my favorite movies. "Is anybody there? Does anybody care?

Was it Adams or was that Jefferson, or really was it G. Washington who said that?

Think Valley Forge, no meat left, no grain to grind. Men with no snows (or socks) in the snow. Think about Liberty. Some folk coming into our country could give less than a D*** about Liberty. They only want to take. Take other people's money, property, even their lives. Do you really think folk such as that need to have the right to vote here?

Is that all you have got?

"Think Valley Forge, no meat left, no grain to grind. Men with no snows[sic] (or socks) in the snow. Think about Liberty."

Those men in Valley Forge weren't thinking about high, abstract concepts such as "Liberty," they were thinking about how they could avoid freezing or starving to death before they got shot.

"They only want to take. Take other people's money, property, even their lives."

I wasn't talking about the 1%ers.

"Do you really think folk such as that need to have the right to vote here?"

And now here we get to the hart of the corn maze, "folk such as that," you're AFRAID of the immigrants, afraid of them getting a voice in this country...

If it makes the Indians feel any better,... just consider the White Man as just another conquering tribe that invaded their territory, Stole their possessions, Rape their women and stole their land... like all the other tribes did prior to the European contact.

Maybe then they'd understand it better.

Wrong answer halogen breath!

I was telling others to think of the men that endured Valley Forge, and the Leader, General George Washington, that managed to somehow hold enough of them together to keep fighting for Independency from Britain. I was telling you, among others, to think about Liberty.

I am not impressed by the mindset of how government works throughout most of the Latin American world, and I do not want to see America fall into the same trap, but it appears too late when you see the level of corruption that has been reached by groups such as the Clinton Foundation. Do not even attempt to deny this, it will make you appear as worse the fool.

I am not talking about 1% folks either. Politicians that just want to create demand for their dysfunctional product (which is lack of proper legislation, failure to serve the American people, and self-serving power grabs), by their failure to cooperatively come to the table and negotiate in a reasonable manner. You know which side I am talking about here. There are liars, damnable liars, and statisticians amongst them.

These are the true wolves in sheep's clothing that serve no purpose other than their own greed for power at the expense of the people. Their time will soon enough be spent. The people are finally beginning to see through the veil, and will vote accordingly.

lol,... halitosis breath...

Where do you suppose the word "halogen" comes from? The translation of that word from its roots means literally: "causing bad breath".

Where?,... I don't know,... I thought it may have been named after a fellow called Jim Halitoski, or something...

indeed!

You can't tell me that any talent required by any company is not available from the American workforce....and you can't tell that these individuals from other countries don't make concessions to get into this country, usually by way of lower wage and benefit demand...Now it's true that specialists in the sciences and research areas are desirable additions to the American workforce, but no system is perfect, and when it degrades into hiring cheaper foreign workers to replace higher demanding sophisticated American workers, well then perhaps this is an example of what's good for business is not necessarily good for the people...as usual this all translates to lack of oversight in poorly thought out government programs...If it can't be regulated then pull the plug and come up with something that is self-regulating...

Nothing you have said is correct in my experience.

I agree that you cannot be made to see reality, but you are only entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts.

You've been brainwashed into believing that....

https://www.indeed.com/hire/resume-search

It's bad enough that you make unsupportable statements and call them fact, but how dare you tell me that I've been brainwashed. You know absolutely nothing about me, except for what you have assumed, mostly incorrectly.

Trying to make your perceived experience from 30 years ago relevant in today's circumstances shows who is dealing with reality....

https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2017/04/02/tech-industry-talent-shortage-claims-under-new-scrutiny/EsxYnPpoKBNv1iTjRl6lLL/story.html

So, were not talking about workers to tend grapevines of certain peoples's vineyards and golf courses.

There are still fields where domestic labor may not be adequate.

Granted, my experience is dated, but you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater because of some radical new policies which may not prove all that valid with time.

OK, I concede. you're right in every thing you say, given your context of reality.

This is not, and can never be an isolated island unto itself, no matter what policies are put in place.

No argument that we need pickers and domestic help from south of the border...jobs that are becoming automated should be filled with these temporary workers....it helps them, it helps us, it's a mutually beneficial arrangement....and there may arise areas where we need foreign workers temporarily, this is understood and is also mutually beneficial....It's the trend that's no friend, and the misleading rhetoric is unacceptable...

...you may find those in the crowd that can see past the smoke of "it is good for business". If you look way down that road, that business is people, and when the people no longer take part, who cares if there is a business (X Corporation) or not?

If that business is not benefiting Americans in many ways if not all ways, then why are they in business. Do they not realize that once Americans get onto their game, customer loyalty goes out the window? Last time I checked there is no corporation (yet) that can hold a gun to my head and make me buy something.

They can try, but I will take it away from them, and I am not afraid.

As the article points out, the green card program is frustratingly slow for the tech industry, and the applicant is likely to accept a position in Canada instead of waiting around for the green card paperwork to finish.

the H1B is a way to bring the worker in and benefit from their skills, while waiting for the bureaucracy to finish its slow work of signing forms.

I'd say most if not all of us know how sluggish the government can be at times; we've been to the DMV⁽¹⁾. And it wouldn't surprise my if other nations have their own agencies that serve the public with the same lack of urgency.

Notes:

1. DMV = Department of Motor Vehicles. Where you go to spent the entire day sitting in a waiting room just to get your Driver's License renewed⁽²⁾.
2. Remember, international audience here, not everyone recognizes the American TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms).

And nobody cares at all why any bureaucracy is slow. People are just impatient and uncaring of anyone else's problem.

Have you ever asked a DMV employee why it often takes so long, I have. A friend of mine works there. The most common time consuming problem are people who cannot fill out a form or even recognize they need to obtain a form themselves. So instead of filling out the form while waiting they fill it out under a teller's guidance while blocking the queue.

On second thought, this is just a frequently reoccurring anecdote reported to me by a friend while consuming an adult beverage. A proper time management, queue technique including statistical analysis, professional study is required to identify why it takes so long at the DMV. That will never happen because nobody would believe the result (fake news) and nobody cares. It's all just wasted government money anyway, they can just print more.

"The most common time consuming problem are people who cannot fill out a form or even recognize they need to obtain a form themselves. So instead of filling out the form while waiting they fill it out under a teller's guidance while blocking the queue."

Sounds like we need to get some experts here to train the Americans about proper line and waiting room etiquette.

I could not spell queue, at least not before reading your post. If you think that is bad, try spelling equeue.

Have you ever asked a DMV employee why it often takes so long, I have. A friend of mine works there. The most common time consuming problem are people who cannot fill out a form or even recognize they....

Possible,... but maybe that the educational system failing

What I've experienced in the past 30 years,... I saw an improvement of the DMV,... and only once did I had to wait 20 minutes to be 'served', at times its so busy, one may feel that your nothing but cattle, but the DMV moves through them pretty good...., otherwise, it goes pretty dam good and the clerks are very pleasant.

Back in the late 80's, a friend of minute went in to get his license renewed. The had a serpentine fence that you had to snake through. When he walked in, there was no one in there except for the clerks. so he walked straight to the closest available clerk. And the clerk refused to help him and made him go back and snake through the serpentine fence.

And to be honest, my recent experiences with the Illinois DMV have been ... not unpleasant.

You enter the waiting room through a short line to the inprocessing desk, where you are asked what you are at the DMV for, and you are issued a call slip with a letter and a number, or just a number. Then you go from the desk to the Big Waiting Room.

Depending on what you are there for, and which tellers are available, the numbers may be called out of sign-in sequence, although within the letter prefix they are typically sequential.

They will also call a series of numbers to a supervisor's window, rapid fire, for "batch processing" of short simple tasks, such as license renewal that does not require an examination, and pull that batch off to a smaller waiting room where they will be handled quickly.

So, in all honesty, most of my DMV jokes are about the DMV of 30-50 years ago.

In Green Bay, Wisconsin, you get a 4 digit? alphanumerical code... take a seat, until you ticket is displayed...

At church?? Really? Just kidding.

No, at the DMV,... you must be thinking of the Religious Organization cash generator scheme of Purgatory.

I have no concept of purgatory, other than being in line at the DMV (not really).

For my belief, it is either 1 or 0, up or down, no three-state logic in that.

I have no concept of purgatory, other than being in line at the DMV

basically it sounds the same.... doesn't it...

Notes:

1. DMV - Driverless Motor Vehicle Division

2. DMV - Texas Dept. of Public Safety Driver Licensing Division

TXDPS DL has electronic waiting, so you can just go in get form(s), fill them out, and have a much shorter wait for your number to come up. Or, many times, the lines are not that long, no big deal either way. Have a nice day, Illinois!

this is where the United States has a disadvantage,...

I'm not against liberal arts, but the current and future college students need to do some research before they select and go to college. to get a college degree that's sustainable in the workforce.

I had posted here what Apples CEO Tim Cook said about sending jobs over to China where in China they could fill a auditorium with tooling engineers ready to work, where in this country, they'd have a hard time filling a small class room size.

And with the past administration declaring its impossible jobs back, this administration doing a unbelievable job of bringing jobs back to the States,... the problem this administration will have trouble is filling the new technical positions...

And to get the talent supply when companies are already moving back is if not too late, it will take a large expansion to of educational infrastructure to accommodate teaching for the required talent.

As an example, here in Wisconsin with FOXCONN Building a huge plant in southeast Wisconsin, the area Technical college, are being overwhelmed with creating its infrastructure with the future needs in the technical areas..